2008-10-06 GnuCash IRC logs
00:13:22 <warlord> anyways, bedtime for me.
00:13:24 <warlord> good night
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00:16:58 <overrider> good night. time to learn about accounting
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09:41:01 <alex> Hi there - Anybody able to tell me how I can have an invoice show different tax fields from the tax table?
09:41:28 <alex> I believe I need to edit invoices.scm, but I am a bit lost in c
09:42:36 <warlord> What do you mean, "show different tax fields?"
09:47:02 <alex> Ahh thanks warlord well I have two types of tax IRPF and IVA and I would like them both to be listed with the correct amount in the invoice - currently I just get a tax total - which though correct gives no breakdown of where each tax element comes from.
09:47:50 <warlord> alex: in the report options, "display all taxes" (or something like that)
09:48:58 <alex> Yes - I did try that - and will double check
09:51:11 <warlord> You have a tax table with multiple tax table entries?
09:52:25 <alex> Yes I do and they get calculated corrctly in the tax total.
09:55:39 <warlord> And it goes into two different accounts?
09:56:00 <warlord> (each tax table entry goes into a different account?)
09:56:48 <alex> I have it so they both go to account receivable. Is that wrong?
09:59:55 <alex> So under tax tables I have one tax table with 3 entries all going to account receivables - this is a test.
10:02:02 <warlord> Yes, that is wrong.
10:02:21 <warlord> the Tax Table accounts should go to a Tax Withholding account, not A/R
10:03:23 <alex> I see and each tax to a separate tax account depending on the type of tax? Yes that seems to affect the invoice like I would have expected.
10:03:39 <alex> Thanks for your help - sorry for the newbieness
10:04:45 <warlord> np
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11:02:02 <alex> Is it possible to have a tax that is actually a negative number so the opposite to VAT. An amount that the payee pays and not you?
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11:04:25 <alex> Like this:
11:04:27 <alex> Servicios web 1000
11:04:28 <alex> IRPF -7% = -70
11:04:30 <alex> IVA +15% = 150
11:04:32 <alex> 1000 -70 + 150 = 1080
11:05:01 <alex> Sorry about the second newbie question in an hour
11:06:50 <alex> I would like both the taxed to show on the invoice and so far I can only get them to show as additions.
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11:25:16 <warlord> I'm not sure what you mean by "negative tax"
11:25:44 <warlord> Are you talking about included vs. non-included taxes?
11:46:40 <warlord> Unfortunately when applying a tax table there's no way to specify that some parts of the table are "included" in the value whereas other parts are "on top of" the value.
11:47:20 <warlord> In the US, taxes are on top of the value. For example, I buy a book for $10. I have to pay 5% tax. So I pay $10.50.
11:49:40 <warlord> In the UK, however, the VAT is included in the price. So if the book is labeled $10, I pay $10, but really the "value" is $9.52 and the 5% tax on that is $0.48
11:50:15 <alex> Hi - this is in Spain - the IRPF is a tax paid by the payee. And the IVA by the biller. So it seems that you are meant to calculate the total with that subtracted.
11:50:51 <alex> so I think it is different than "included"
11:52:46 <warlord> I have no idea what you mean by "by the payee" or "by the biller". accounting-wise those terms mean nothing.
11:53:04 <alex> Ahh,
11:53:26 <warlord> There are a few things.
11:53:30 <warlord> (that matter)
11:54:35 <warlord> There are: The labeled price of the goods. The amount you receive from the buyer. then there's the amount you pay to the govt out of the total amount given to you by the buyer.
11:54:50 <warlord> Oh, and then there's the "actual" price of the goods.
11:55:11 <alex> So if I give a company an invoice I pay 16% like VAT for services - no good - and they (my client) have to pay a tax called IRPF that I should include as a deduction in my Invoice.
11:55:41 <alex> no good = no goods
11:55:48 <alex> its's just services.
11:57:11 <warlord> Goods == Services. Doesn't matter.
11:57:29 <warlord> There's still multiple things going on, and still the 4 values. Just replace "goods" with "services" in my above statement.
11:58:13 <alex> ok
11:58:40 <warlord> There's the advertized price of the service. There's the actual value of the service. There's the Total amount (including all taxes) that they PAY for the service. And then there's the total amount you pay to the govt for the services.
11:58:56 <warlord> The buyer doesn't pay the govt directly.. you collect the money and give it to the govt.
12:02:12 <alex> Is that always the case? As I understand that there are 2 taxes here. One that I have to pay every 3 months is a percentage of what I sold the services for, but another that the buyer pays and at the end of the year is used to calculate how much extra tax I pay or get repaid based on my total earnings in the year.
12:04:43 <warlord> Of course that's the case. The buyer doesn't pay you twice (once for the services and once for the tax on it). They pay you once, for the combined service+tax. So they give you $10.50. Now, $0.50 of that is the tax they pay. But you might not consider $10 to be the "actual" value because part of that $10 is tax that "you" owe.
12:05:31 <warlord> But there is no way to represent that in GnuCash because you cannot combine an "included" tax (the tax you owe) and the "non-included" tax (the tax the buyer pays)
12:06:09 <alex> Yes, but the second amount is paid, I believe to the Spanish gov.
12:06:26 <warlord> But not by the buyer.. It's paid BY YOU!
12:06:32 <warlord> YOU cut the check to the govt
12:06:36 <warlord> Not the buyer
12:14:03 <alex> Thanks Warlord I think this time I will do the invoice by hand and then import into gnucash.
12:16:38 <warlord> yeah, sorry. GnuCash just doesn't handle both included and non-included taxes simultaneously.
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17:13:39 <RediXe> When trying to save I get the GnuCash could not obtain the lock for "path". DB might be in use in which should not save. Do you want to proceed with saving the DB? ... even if I click save it is not being saved. The path is an sshfs mount point. I can create file's and folders just fine but can't save the gnucash file to it.
17:14:18 <warlord> known problem with sshfs
17:14:27 <warlord> save to /tmp then copy over to sshfs
17:14:56 <RediXe> Is that the only way?
17:15:22 <RediXe> That's the way we been doing it, I was hoping for something that would be easier on our financial person.
17:16:25 <warlord> Use NFS, not sshfs?
17:18:45 <RediXe> I'm wanting to stick with sshfs. I'll just write a script or something to auto copy I guess.
17:19:13 <jsled> IIRC there's a fix, but it might not be in 2.2.7.
17:20:46 <warlord> True, your other option is to rebuild gnucash with the fix. (I dont think it's in 2.2.7 either)
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17:25:43 <RediXe> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549595 Comment #8: Applied to branches/2.2 as r17550 for inclusion in GnuCash 2.2.7. Thanks a lot! Is that the fix I want/need?
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17:30:36 <warlord> Yep.
17:30:40 <warlord> Are you not running 2.2.7?
17:31:16 <RediXe> I have no idea. My boss installed GnuCash and I'm tackling this issue now.
17:31:30 <warlord> Help -> About
17:33:00 <RediXe> 2.2.4 ... so will be upgrading to 2.2.7
17:35:25 <warlord> good idea
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17:59:56 <warlock_mza> hello
18:00:58 <warlock_mza> I'm would like gnucash to display a column in my accounts tab that gives me the sum for the past month on each account, is this possible ?
18:05:57 <warlord> Not without a little programming.
18:07:42 <warlord> warlock_mza: but it wouldn't be too difficult to code that in as a new column.
18:08:10 <warlock_mza> oki ... any tips ... I'm looking at the code
18:08:19 <warlock_mza> would it be only scheme that I would need to touch ?
18:09:03 <jsled> none of that code is scheme.
18:09:10 <warlock_mza> .scm ?
18:09:26 <jsled> ? ?
18:09:54 <jsled> none of the code relating to modifying the accounts tab in the UI is in going to be in scheme, unless I'm forgetting something small.
18:10:10 <warlock_mza> what would that be then ? c ¿
18:10:11 <warlock_mza> ?
18:10:18 <jsled> yup.
18:10:37 <warlock_mza> crap ... I dont wanna compile every time I update :-|
18:10:52 <warlock_mza> Hmmm ....maybe a report
18:11:11 <warlock_mza> how about a suggestion for inclussion ?
18:11:18 <warlock_mza> how would I do that ?
18:11:49 <jsled> you can file an RFE at bugzilla.gnome.org … a similar request might already exist, so search first.
18:11:56 <warlock_mza> oki
18:11:58 <warlock_mza> thanks
18:11:59 <jsled> But unless you also attach a patch for the same, I doubt it'll happen.
18:12:08 <warlock_mza> hmmm oki
18:12:08 <jsled> (or, at least, anytime soon)
18:12:18 <warlock_mza> will try
18:12:23 <warlock_mza> thanks for the tips
18:12:27 <warlord> also, if you implement it, send in the patch.
18:12:33 <warlock_mza> gotta go to the bank :-|
18:12:36 <warlord> something like that could easily be included in another release.
18:12:37 <warlock_mza> will do
18:13:09 <jsled> though … wouldn't a cashflow report get sometihng like this?
18:13:37 <warlock_mza> hmm maybe
18:13:51 <warlock_mza> but I wanted it like a column next to total and period total
18:14:03 <warlock_mza> something like prev period total
18:14:19 <warlock_mza> just to let me know at a glance how things r going
18:15:03 <warlock_mza> back un some minutes
18:16:56 <warlord> k
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22:56:47 <duckman> hello
22:56:53 <duckman> i need help :(
22:57:52 <warlord> take two aspirin....
22:58:14 <duckman> should i lol?
22:58:23 <duckman> :P
22:58:36 <warlord> you should read and followthe /topic
22:59:01 <duckman> ask my question and wait
22:59:01 <duckman> ?
22:59:22 <duckman> im not disturbing/flooding or something
22:59:41 <jsled> What's your question?
23:00:10 <duckman> jsled, hi, i have a question with.. salary account
23:00:19 <warlord> just ask your question already
23:00:25 <duckman> (sorry in advance for my english, is not good)
23:01:10 <duckman> when i charge an income, like my salary, and i want to move it to my assets account, the salary account get the double amount of money
23:01:26 <duckman> what im doing wrong
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23:02:16 <warlord> you're not following correct double-entry accounting.
23:02:35 <warlord> (most likely you're setting the transfer account to the currently-opened account instead of the "other" account)
23:03:01 <duckman> mmm i think it was something like that...
23:03:14 <duckman> well, what i have to do.. charge the salary
23:03:20 <warlord> read the docs
23:03:32 <warlord> they are quite good and explain the basics of transactions
23:04:15 <duckman> ok.. the expenses account, have a "double-entry" trick too?
23:04:21 <duckman> :/
23:04:46 <jsled> All the accounts behave the same way; there's no trick.
23:04:49 <duckman> i want to now if i doing wrong all my accounting
23:04:51 <warlord> Expense accounts are no different than income accounts, or equity, or assets
23:04:53 <duckman> im*
23:05:11 <warlord> The only trick is knowing which account to credit and which to debit.
23:05:41 <duckman> mmm ok
23:05:50 <warlord> It's usually easiest to work from your Asset and Liability accounts. E.g., it's easier if you work from your Checking account to think about money going into (or coming out of) that account.
23:06:40 <duckman> well, when i charge a liability , like "groceries", with what account i have to do the balance?
23:06:42 <duckman> for example
23:07:15 <duckman> i will read the docs, but.. i want to have an idea
23:07:33 <jsled> "Groceries" are an Expense, not a Liability.
23:07:41 <duckman> sorry
23:07:43 <duckman> an expense
23:07:58 <jsled> If you pay for them from an Asset account (debit card, cash, check), then the transaction will be against an Asset and an Expense account.
23:08:15 <duckman> i got it
23:08:17 <jsled> If you pay for them with a credit card, it'd be against a Liability and Expense account.
23:08:47 <duckman> well, i think (badly) that the gnucash will make that for me ahaha
23:08:53 <warlord> It's all about money movement. A transaction moves money from one place (credit) to another place (debit)
23:08:55 <duckman> i understand
23:09:09 <warlord> You just have to tell it the endpoints.
23:09:12 <warlord> It can't guess.
23:09:20 <warlord> One endpoint is the current open account.
23:09:25 <warlord> the other is the "transfer" account.
23:09:45 <duckman> i do it separately or.. using the "split" ?
23:10:11 <duckman> i mean, i charge the expense, and then go to assets and charge the movement
23:10:34 <duckman> or, i use the split, and make from there the two movements
23:10:37 <jsled> You can affect the transaction from either side. But you only need to do it from one of the two.
23:10:51 <jsled> The "Basic" ledger view is a bit misleading.
23:10:55 <jsled> Every Transaction has at least two splits.
23:11:09 <jsled> But in the Basic view, the split associated with the open account is hidden.
23:11:10 <duckman> that confused me
23:11:14 <warlord> duckman: please go read the docs.
23:11:36 <duckman> warlord, ok ok..
23:11:40 <jsled> yeah ... we're just re-iterating stuff in the docs, and it has good screenshots. :)
23:11:46 <jsled> they help make it clear.
23:12:02 <duckman> there are any docs in spanish?
23:12:03 <warlord> right. it's very much worth an hour or three to read through the docs.
23:12:07 <warlord> No
23:12:21 <duckman> ok..
23:12:57 <duckman> well, thank you, if i have a doubt about the docs, i poke someone here
23:13:08 <warlord> okay
23:13:15 <warlord> keep in mind we keep US hours.
23:13:53 <duckman> if you are sleeping, i will have no response, nothing more
23:13:55 <duckman> xD
23:14:07 <warlord> right.
23:14:23 <duckman> what time is it in the US
23:14:24 <duckman> ?
23:14:29 <warlord> 23.14
23:14:41 <duckman> perfect, here 00:14
23:14:56 <duckman> we are all happy
23:15:04 <warlord> Oh, you're in Atlantic TZ?
23:15:27 <duckman> Argentina
23:15:44 <duckman> or "i dont know"
23:15:45 <duckman> hahaha
23:15:48 <warlord> :)
23:15:55 <warlord> Buenos Aires?
23:16:01 <duckman> exaclty
23:16:06 <duckman> exactly*
23:16:13 <duckman> "good airs"
23:16:22 <warlord> * nods *
23:16:26 <warlord> Yo sabe
23:16:33 <duckman> hahah
23:16:38 <duckman> Yo se
23:16:41 <duckman> español
23:17:11 <warlord> Mucho cerveza
23:17:20 <duckman> hahaha
23:17:29 <duckman> and beatifull girls
23:17:34 <duckman> "fuck yeah"
23:17:37 <warlord> LOL
23:17:47 <warlord> Couldn't talk to that.. Never been there.
23:18:21 <duckman> you have to, we are like a global mix
23:18:38 <duckman> you can found anything (in girls) here
23:18:50 <warlord> :)
23:18:54 <warlord> I'll keep that in mind.
23:18:59 <duckman> and food, but not search good politicians
23:19:03 <duckman> haha
23:22:24 <duckman> well jsled , warlord , thanks for the help, cya!
23:22:39 <warlord> hasta luego!
23:22:47 <duckman> haha
23:22:48 <duckman> adios!
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23:29:44 <warlord> w00t! we won.
23:29:47 <warlord> okay, bedtime
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