2008-10-03 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:55:53 <jasuus> anyone have any luck getting ofx/online banking working?
01:56:41 <jasuus> im trying to follow this: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2
01:57:03 <jasuus> but there is no Tools>HBCI setup menu option
01:57:45 <jasuus> i re-compiled src using --enable-hbci as config option
01:57:55 <jasuus> and i have aqbanking installed
02:07:38 <postal> Hi, I've just updated GnuCash from 2.2.5_0 to 2.2.7_1 on MacPorts (ppc), and am having some problems.
02:07:39 <postal> Every time I open GnuCash, I get two error windows. One says: "The configuration data used to specify default values for GnuCash cannot be found in the default system locations. Without this data GnuCash will still operate properly but it may require some extra time to setup. Do you wish to setup the configuration data?." The other says: "An error occurred while loading or saving configuration information for gnucash. Some of your configuratio
02:07:39 <postal> This happens every time I startup now (after this update), even after I setup the preferences anew. Strangely, the preferences don't even seem to stick. For example, when I select "negative amounts in red", this does not occur in my accounts window. Also, other "on-the-fly" preferences don't stick, such as the confirmation window I get when changing the reconciliation state of transactions. When I select, "don't warn me again", this is not rem
02:08:51 <jasuus> yea, mine does that too
02:09:42 <postal> ah
02:09:57 <postal> so i guess you don't know how to fix it either?
02:10:03 <jasuus> heh...nope
02:10:04 <jasuus> :)
02:10:12 <postal> hehe.... oh well
02:10:24 <jasuus> im still tryin to get the online banking to work
02:10:43 <postal> i just sent a post to the mailing list, so maybe we'll hear a solution soon
02:10:58 <postal> sorry, can't help you with that, as my bank doesn't allow it anyway
02:11:13 <jasuus> really?
02:11:30 <postal> yeah... maybe somehting to do with Australian banks
02:11:34 <postal> we're a bit backwards
02:11:36 <jasuus> ah
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02:12:03 <jasuus> yea, but Sydney is beautiful :)
02:12:30 <postal> Pity I'm in Melbourne :)
02:12:40 <postal> but I used to live in Sydney
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02:14:46 <jaek> when will i be able to expect gnucach to be able to automatically sync up with my bank
02:16:26 <jasuus> when cows fly
02:19:38 <jaek> orllly?
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12:08:11 <SpeimaneX> hi
12:09:02 <SpeimaneX> I am running Gnucash via Macports and upgraded yesterday to versioin 2.7.1
12:09:34 <jsled> 2.2.7 ?
12:09:57 <SpeimaneX> now I get an error message every time I launch gnucash about problems with the config files
12:10:02 <SpeimaneX> yes, sorry
12:10:26 <SpeimaneX> there is a button for details there
12:10:58 <SpeimaneX> and here is the result: http://pastie.org/284321.txt
12:12:30 <SpeimaneX> if you prefer the error message in english, i can provide that as well
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12:17:02 <warlord> Sounds like an OrBIT/GConf issue
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20:43:54 <postal> seems a few of us are getting the same problem
20:44:21 <postal> To reiterate:
20:44:22 <postal> Hi, I've just updated GnuCash from 2.2.5_0 to 2.2.7_1 on MacPorts (ppc), and am having some problems.
20:44:22 <postal> Every time I open GnuCash, I get two error windows. One says: "The configuration data used to specify default values for GnuCash cannot be found in the default system locations. Without this data GnuCash will still operate properly but it may require some extra time to setup. Do you wish to setup the configuration data?." The other says: "An error occurred while loading or saving configuration information for gnucash. Some of your configuratio
20:44:22 <postal> This happens every time I startup now (after this update), even after I setup the preferences anew. Strangely, the preferences don't even seem to stick. For example, when I select "negative amounts in red", this does not occur in my accounts window. Also, other "on-the-fly" preferences don't stick, such as the confirmation window I get when changing the reconciliation state of transactions. When I select, "don't warn me again", this is not rem
20:44:28 <postal> It's also taking a ridiculous amount of CPU power, and is extremely slow, which I guess is related, possibly to locked files??
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21:08:53 <warlord> postal: #1, your first paragraph ended at "Some of your configuratio".
21:09:03 <postal> oops
21:09:05 <warlord> #2, your second paragraph ended at "this is not rem"
21:09:18 <warlord> #3, I answered earlier that this is an ORBit/GConf problem.
21:09:32 <postal> oh ok... i wasn't sure what that meant
21:09:46 <postal> so i should enquire at the people who develop that?
21:26:21 <warlord> or, more likely, ask the macports people
21:30:00 <postal> oh ok, thanks for the advice
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22:00:26 <asdf1> Can Gnucash handle retainer accounts like quickbooks: http://support.quickbooks.intuit.com/support/Pages/InProductHelp/Core/QB2K4/core2/retainers/task_handling_retainers_and_upfront_deposits.html I tried to setup a retainer account by adding various subaccounts in Liabilities, I've tried Liabilities:Bank, Liabilities:AR, Liabilities:Liability, and then I even did a subaccount of the subaccounts. Then i tried to create an invoice for the custom
22:00:48 <asdf1> instead of hacking it out, i'd like to see if there's a best practice that you guys suggest for handling "Retainer accounts"
22:01:11 <asdf1> this actually has to deal with a new Lawyer friend of mine, she needs to track something called Retainer/IOLTA accounts
22:01:31 <asdf1> if you know of a website to go to that details this, or if you can explain me how, i'd very much appreciate it...
22:37:59 <asdf1> i'll just wait here i guess until someone knows the answer =/
22:59:44 <warlord> asdf1: Are you talking about a customer pre-payment?
23:04:52 <asdf1> its something like that
23:05:27 <asdf1> but its a deposit, where i also need to provide another "invoice" or statement, showing what services i spent "their" money on
23:05:49 <warlord> Right. Business -> Customer -> Process Payment
23:06:02 <asdf1> but then how are the accounts setup?
23:06:47 <asdf1> liabilities:client retainers (Liability):john doe's retainer(AR) ?
23:07:26 <warlord> Nah, just Assets:A/R
23:07:33 <asdf1> tha'ts the problem
23:07:33 <warlord> You don't need a per-customer A/R
23:07:37 <asdf1> its not an asset
23:07:49 <warlord> Doesn't matter. Asset == -Liability
23:07:55 <asdf1> all retainers, especially in regards to Law, are a liability
23:08:07 <asdf1> ..
23:08:54 <asdf1> i was reading this "howto" on setting up quickbooks for lawyers, and i was modeling after what they said, and then while reading the rules that it needs to be considered a liabilty.....
23:09:07 <warlord> A = -L
23:09:35 <asdf1> i know, but that negative sign still messes with the balance reports
23:09:38 <asdf1> wait...
23:09:49 <asdf1> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
23:10:14 <asdf1> so i "receive" a deposit, and i place it in the Account Receiveables as a -1000 instead of a +1000
23:10:27 <warlord> Right. That's what Process Payment will do.
23:10:53 <asdf1> ok, wait a second, let me try this
23:12:43 <asdf1> hmm...ok..interesting...not working
23:12:48 <asdf1> hold on, i must be doing somethign wrong
23:15:05 <asdf1> ok, that's it, i'm goign to document exaclty what i do from a fresh start
23:15:26 <asdf1> and if i go wrong somewhere, hopefully someoen can point it out
23:16:07 <warlord> ok.
23:17:03 <asdf1> 1) create absolutely brand new file, 2) create new customer: John Doe, 3) create invoice for John Doe (Retainer Account)
23:17:17 <asdf1> oops, disregard "Retainer Account"
23:17:58 <asdf1> that will go into 4) 10/03/2008, Retainer Account, Project
23:18:10 <asdf1> um, i just realized, what do i do with Income Account?
23:18:39 <asdf1> but i'll continue, quantity = 1, unit price = $580
23:19:20 <warlord> For the pre-payment there is no income account.. It's just A/R -> Checking.
23:19:23 <asdf1> i havent done anything with Income Acount because only 5 options show up, Income:Interest Income, Income:Other Income, Income:Reimbursed Expenses, Income:Sales, Liabilities:Creditcard
23:19:33 <warlord> The Income Account happens when you actually do the work, so it's Income -> A/R
23:19:53 <warlord> Well, what are they paying for?:
23:20:18 <asdf1> ok, here's the law:
23:20:36 <warlord> please dont cut-and-paste the law.
23:20:41 <asdf1> lol
23:20:43 <asdf1> i won't
23:20:46 <asdf1> i'm typing it out
23:20:52 <warlord> please dont.
23:21:01 <asdf1> no no, like explaining
23:21:18 <asdf1> how the lawyer recieves the money, what kind of an account it must go into
23:21:34 <asdf1> how the law says i shoudl seperate the account...
23:21:46 <asdf1> ok, i'll write one sentence, if its not beneficial, the you can /kick me or /ban me
23:21:58 <warlord> Are you someplace with really silly laws like Germany?
23:22:04 <asdf1> Massachusetts
23:22:15 <asdf1> Boston
23:22:17 <warlord> You're misinterpretting the law.
23:22:33 * warlord is from Somerville
23:22:34 <asdf1> then what's with this IOLTA stuff???
23:22:43 <warlord> IOLTA?
23:22:50 <asdf1> oh right on, jamaica plains =)
23:22:58 <asdf1> actually, i lied
23:23:01 <asdf1> Roxbury =(
23:23:21 <asdf1> but i'm on the border of JP! so i like to think JP
23:23:41 <asdf1> anyways, iolta is a bank account that lawyer must create that accrues interest on a client's "Deposit"
23:24:02 <asdf1> that interest that is accrued must be given to the Mass Bar to start public service projects
23:25:15 <asdf1> now that interest must be accounted for, and i must also track each customer and track how much interest each customer's deposit made over a period of time
23:26:04 <warlord> GnuCash wont do that.
23:26:09 <warlord> at least, not directly.
23:26:16 <asdf1> but then, when my do the job, i must take the money out of the IOLTA (Retainer) account, and place it in my account, and generate an invoice for the customer to show them that these are the tasks my
23:26:23 <asdf1> *these are the tasks i've done
23:27:02 <warlord> GnuCash will do everything but the IOLTA interest.
23:27:17 <asdf1> hmm...
23:27:22 <asdf1> can that be tracked by the bank instead?
23:27:29 <warlord> No clue
23:27:58 <asdf1> how does the interest in savings accounts get tracked?
23:28:24 <warlord> Income:Interest -> Asset:Savings
23:28:58 <warlord> But that's assuming individual accounts. The business features don;t -- it assumes an aggregate A/R
23:29:53 <asdf1> sheesh, ok, i must really not be understanding how "Income Account" and "Payment Processing" are linked
23:30:04 <asdf1> i read the gnucash manual, and there's a one line entry about it
23:30:28 <asdf1> and i googled it, and it seems like i'm only pulling info about how to create salary accounts in gnucash
23:30:49 <warlord> they are not linked at all.
23:30:51 <asdf1> but i just don't see how "Income Account" in the Invoice Entry is linked to the "Process Payment"
23:30:56 <warlord> Process Payment is A/R -> Checking
23:31:02 <warlord> Invoice is INcome -> A/R
23:31:47 <asdf1> an account receivable isn't necessarily an Asset?
23:32:03 <asdf1> but that's why you said Asset = - Liability...
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23:32:29 <asdf1> i feel like i'm close to understanding it, but i'm still feeling a bit crunched
23:32:31 <warlord> A/R by definition is an Asset.
23:33:03 <warlord> Posting an Invoice Credits INcome and Debits A/R
23:33:04 <asdf1> ok, see, so then how can i process a Retainer Deposit when in fact, its a Liability
23:33:16 <asdf1> wait wait, contineu talking
23:33:17 <warlord> Processing Payment Credits A/R and Debits Checking
23:33:41 <warlord> If you PP first, then it treats A/R as a Liability... Because A=-L
23:33:46 <warlord> or L = -A
23:35:13 <warlord> The only difference between A and L is how GnuCash treats negative numbers and how it labels it. But really there is no difference.
23:35:56 <asdf1> my worry is the lawyer is going to forget that, if i have to make her use negative numbers, she's going to flip
23:36:28 <warlord> Then GnuCash isn't for you
23:36:29 <asdf1> all she wants is to create invoice, and a little bit of thought goes in without mathematics, and let the magic happen
23:36:46 <warlord> Wait.. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS!
23:36:51 <warlord> You DONT need to think about it.
23:36:58 <warlord> When they hand you a check, Process payemtn
23:37:05 <warlord> When you do work, Post an Invoice.
23:37:20 <warlord> BAM. GnuCash does the rest... Except computing IOTLA interest.
23:37:51 <asdf1> omg
23:38:40 <asdf1> let me just reread what you wrote about "Income Asset", tie it in with what you JUST wrote, i feel the brain power
23:38:46 <asdf1> er
23:38:48 <asdf1> "Income Account"
23:39:06 <warlord> "Income Account" only ties in when you post an invoice
23:39:15 <warlord> There IS no income until you post an invoice.
23:41:20 <asdf1> when i create an "Invoice Entry", and i see Date, Description,Action, and Income Account....why would it be there? is it trying to say that WHEN an invoice is posted, it will put this entry into that particular "Income Account"
23:41:35 <warlord> Yes
23:42:22 <asdf1> and one more thing, what does "->" mean, semantically, are you using the word transfer?
23:42:55 <asdf1> Process Payment is A/R -> Checking <---are you saying, "Processing Payment happens when money from Account Receivables is transferred to Checking
23:42:58 <asdf1> "
23:44:03 <warlord> yes to the first. "not quite" to the second.
23:44:34 <asdf1> well, you wrote the first, i'm trying to reinterpret that into words....by saying the second
23:44:36 <warlord> "happens when" is incorrect. I would use "means"
23:44:55 <warlord> or "causes"
23:45:05 <asdf1> causes, implies
23:45:08 <asdf1> imply?
23:45:33 <warlord> sure.
23:45:53 <asdf1> ok ok, i think i'm starting to grasp, but can i ask why this isn't documented into the business section of gnucash's help section or wiki?
23:45:58 <warlord> The Process Payment process causes a transfer from A/R to Checking
23:46:10 <warlord> because it's obvious :)
23:46:11 <asdf1> or is this soething that i should have known before....
23:46:21 <asdf1> ok, so i should have known this before.....
23:46:22 <warlord> It's "Accounting 101"
23:46:35 <warlord> But you're welcome to add to the wiki.
23:46:53 <asdf1> tha'ts what i'm thinking i should do, for my own knowledge sakes
23:47:07 <asdf1> i'm trying to do a crash course in accounting 101 using wiki....i'm not doing so hot
23:47:42 <asdf1> something so fundamental and basic to life...and i can't even do it right, and here i am giving advice to lawyers about what to use
23:48:38 <warlord> Hahahahahah
23:50:43 <asdf1> ok, so let me ask your opinion, its 1 lawyer who just started on her own, do you think i should suggest GnuCash? or should i just tell her to use QuickBooks and let her enjoy the documentation/help or whatever the help she wants so that she's not a headache on me.....or is there an alternative like SQL Ledger that might do the trick? for that "non commonsense" individual
23:51:34 <warlord> honestly i dont know.
23:51:39 <warlord> I've never used QB
23:51:46 <warlord> (I;ve seen it, but never used it)
23:51:59 <warlord> I haven't looked at SQL Ledger in about 7 years
23:52:08 <asdf1> neither have i, and i wasn't about to drop $200 to demo it
23:53:06 <warlord> heh
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