2008-08-29 GnuCash IRC logs

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03:17:54 <cfbauer> hi, i have a question about online banking
03:18:49 <cfbauer> i've installed libaqbanking20, libaqbanking20-plugins, and libaqbanking20-qt
03:19:35 <cfbauer> i've been told to access the wizard with the tools > online banking or tools > HBCI in the mnu
03:19:38 <cfbauer> *menu
03:20:22 <cfbauer> i'm using 2.2.4 via Ubuntu Hardy
03:20:41 <cfbauer> but there is no menu item called online banking or something similar
03:21:17 <cfbauer> there are a set of online banking options in the preferences, which seems odd since I can't find where to set it up
03:22:04 <cfbauer> anyway I'll leave the chat window open and check back
03:22:08 <cfbauer> thanks for reading!
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12:26:22 <Larry_> I am new to gnucash. 2 questions: 1) I would have searched the mailing lists but the links seem to be broken to all the mailing lists on wiki.gnucash.org. Are there new lists or corrected links some where else? 2) I am having a window refresh problem with all my accounts. The window does not refresh until I close and reopen the window causing me to mess up my data entry. Is this a bug or do I need to set something someplace?
12:27:56 <jsled> Which links? http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists and many of the links from there seem fine.
12:28:14 <jsled> That's weird re: window refresh. What OS/distro? Which window/tab in particular?
12:28:40 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
12:29:35 <Larry_> Broken links: https://lists.gnucash.org/search/ and https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo and https://lists.gnucash.org/beta/search/
12:30:22 <jsled> Define "broken"? what happens? (They all load fine for me.)
12:31:03 <Larry_> I'm on windows runiing gnucash 2.2.6. Refresh problems with all my account entry windows: e.g. Checking account etc. I have tried this on 2 different machines both running Windows XP Pro with all MS updates installed
12:33:44 <Larry_> I get the message: lists.gnucash.org uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is not trusted because it is self signed.
12:33:44 <Larry_> (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer)
12:34:06 <jsled> Oh, add an exception, or use http rather than https
12:34:35 <Larry_> OK, I'm stupid. That worked
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12:35:51 <warlord> Find me someone who will give me a certificate for free and I'll change it.
12:36:42 <Larry_> No problem. Now that I know to switch to http I do fine. Any idea on the window refresh?
12:36:51 <jsled> http://www.cacert.org/ is the canonical answer, but I don't believe they're in any browser's trusted cert list.
12:37:01 * jsled afks for lunch
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12:37:34 <warlord> Larry_: I'd blame windows ;)
12:41:56 <warlord> jsled: if they're not in any browser's trusted cert list then we're no better off than now.
12:47:58 <Larry_> I added an exception to Mozilla an it works (but there should be a way around having to add the exception.) On the refresh question: I normally blam windows for everything (including all the worlds ills) but I need a work around or a fix and I assume other Windows users do/will too
12:48:46 <warlord> Larry_: there is no way around adding an exception except paying for a certificate from a 'trusted' CA.
12:50:38 <Larry_> Ok, then you should put a note on the web site telling people how to handle the problem so more of us fools don't bother you :)
12:51:52 <warlord> Very few people ask.
12:51:57 <warlord> Like maybe one or two a year.
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12:53:46 <jsled> Larry_: you're using FireFox 3, right?
12:54:09 <Larry_> yes 3.0.1
12:54:20 <jsled> They changed their policy about self-signed certs. Meaning lots of – especially foss-related – sites now get that page rather than silently working before.
12:54:24 <jsled> It's a hotly-debated change.
12:55:06 <jsled> re: the windows issue, I'm not sure about much about the windows port, but I'm pretty sure most everyone is not seeing those redraw issues.
12:55:13 <Larry_> It would be nice if they gave us an override to the old method
12:55:41 <jsled> You can see other known issues at <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows>, and maybe there's soemthing for the issue filed in the bug tracker — I don't know off hand if there is or not.
12:57:41 <Larry_> I even get it with the about pop up window. The rectangle remains until I open/close the window or cover it with another window. I will look at the bug tracker now that I have a work around for the cert issue. I'll get back if I don't find an answer
12:58:12 <Larry_> thank you
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13:34:53 <pirulo> hi, quick question that surely was asked many times, I have a list of clients and vendors from sql-ledger that I like to import into gnucash, is there any recipe around?
13:35:27 <jsled> I don't believe so, no.
13:36:12 <pirulo> @jsled: will gnucash import a list of clients if I feed a qif or oxf file?
13:36:12 <gncbot> pirulo: Error: "jsled:" is not a valid command.
13:36:19 <jsled> no.
13:36:40 <jsled> neither of those formats contains "clients" or "vendors" data types, I don't beleive.
13:36:58 <pirulo> ok, any hard way to import? like editing a file and pushing into it?
13:37:38 <jsled> You could probably edit your datafile, copying and editing the structure of an existing vendor.
13:37:42 <jsled> But it's not supported, &c.
13:37:47 <jsled> I'm not sure how dangerous it'd be.
13:38:32 <andrewsw-afk> you'd have to make guids, I think.
13:38:45 <pirulo> ok, worth a try, what you mean by guids
13:38:53 <jsled> certainly, the critical thing to change is the guids on the new objects.
13:39:05 <jsled> They're random identifiers associated with pretty much everything in the datamodel.
13:39:09 <jsled> You'll see them in the file.
13:39:46 <pirulo> ok, which file would be relevant? and probable i can generate the ids with the same code gnucash uses,
13:40:09 <jsled> your datafile.
13:41:00 <jsled> Also, `uuidgen | tr -d '-'` creates fine guids, maybe with an up-casing. I forget what the file contains.
13:42:01 <pirulo> ok, for datafile do you refer to last xac file?
13:42:07 <pirulo> what's the encoding?
13:43:07 <pirulo> charset
13:44:54 <warlord> ITF8
13:44:55 <jsled> No, the base datafile, not the .xac backups.
13:44:57 <warlord> UTF8
13:48:36 <pirulo> ok got it decompresed, lots of reading now, thanks so much
13:49:08 <pirulo> btw, is there any gnucash xml reference
13:49:36 <jsled> The code. :) http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk/src/doc/xml/gnucash-v2.rnc
13:50:00 <jsled> Ah, I should have line-broken those two.
13:50:21 <jsled> The code is the only real truth. That Relax-NG file is absolutely non-normative.
13:50:42 <jsled> Remember to backup your datafile before making changes.
13:50:54 <jsled> Remember, this is not even really supported. Good luck, &c.
13:51:50 <pirulo> I get it, but I guess is worth trying so no re-type is done, I'll check the code for the xml, but I just create a dumy client and that reveals the fields on the file as well, we'll see what comes, thanks for your help
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14:05:20 <FrozenZia> Hi - n00b here... I've got 2.2.1, and am having troubles with some mutual fund "purchases"...
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14:06:06 <FrozenZia> I've tried to do some searching thru the mailing-list archives, but haven't found anything (that's not to say it's not there...)
14:07:38 <FrozenZia> When I enter the amount of shares and the buy price, then hit enter, e.g. 30, the amt of shares reverts to 1, and the price per share to 30!
14:08:26 <FrozenZia> that is - gnucash seems to ignore completely what I'm entering for share amt...
14:09:05 <FrozenZia> If that description wasn't confusing enough, I can try again...
14:09:37 <andrewsw-afk> describe step by step the process.
14:09:43 <andrewsw-afk> IOW, works fine here
14:10:22 *** andrewsw-afk is now known as andrewsw
14:10:25 <andrewsw> @op
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14:11:24 <FrozenZia> hmmm -- okay, I have a mutual fund account, go to the last entry which is blank, type in something for the description and hit tab...
14:11:47 <andrewsw> oh wait, I'm in a stock account...
14:13:27 <FrozenZia> in my case, my description matched another entry that I'm having trouble with -- it automatically puts 30 tot shares, 30 tot buy, and "splits" the transaction,
14:14:11 <FrozenZia> so I see a Buy from Assets:Investments....:MyAcct with 30 Tot Shares, 1 price, and 30 Tot Buy
14:14:23 <andrewsw> okay, I'm following along now... entered a description, press tab...
14:14:41 <FrozenZia> ...and then Assets:Current Assets:My CheckingAcct has Tot Sell of 30
14:16:27 <FrozenZia> I went down to the 1st line of the split, and tried this: Shares 10.923 (tab), Price 2.7464 (tab) (tab)
14:16:34 <FrozenZia> (I think...)
14:16:51 <andrewsw> okay, that's what I see as well. Assets:invest... 30 shares 1 price Tot Buy 30 and then a matching split to checking to sell 30.
14:16:52 <FrozenZia> sorry, geez this is harder to explain than I imagined.
14:17:00 <andrewsw> ;)
14:17:46 <andrewsw> with that number of shares and price, you get a total buy of 30.00. What's the problem?
14:17:52 <FrozenZia> Anyway, after that last tab, I actually get 29.9989 1 29.9989 on the top line of the split,
14:18:13 <andrewsw> ?
14:18:18 <FrozenZia> 30 for the sell, and "remainder" down at the bottom of price 1, buy 0.0011
14:18:32 <FrozenZia> andrewsw: exactly my point.
14:18:36 <FrozenZia> =o)
14:19:03 <FrozenZia> I'm gonna try a completely new transaction, hold on
14:19:05 <andrewsw> I don't see that behavior at all in 2.2.mumble
14:19:12 <andrewsw> 2.2.6
14:20:54 <andrewsw> so the 10.923 and the 2.7464 get *changed* to 29.9989 and 1 respectively.
14:21:08 <andrewsw> what happens if you record the txn and go back to edit it?
14:21:36 <FrozenZia> I don't know, but I think part of my problem may be related to having this set up as a scheduled transaction
14:21:46 <FrozenZia> back up a sec.
14:22:20 <FrozenZia> what would be the preferred way to register a stock/fund purchase - step-by-step?
14:22:26 <FrozenZia> (rtfm?)
14:22:29 <jsled> SXes don't support stock/fund purchases
14:23:12 <andrewsw> so you are seeing this behavior *where* specifically? in the stock/fund register? or in the SX editor?
14:23:14 <FrozenZia> jsled: meaning if I try to use them I might get weird behavior?
14:23:31 <FrozenZia> sorry - SX = sched. transaction?
14:23:33 <jsled> yes.
14:23:46 <jsled> (on the "SX" expansion)
14:23:47 <FrozenZia> no, in the stock/fund register is where I see it.
14:24:02 <jsled> But the SX "engine" doesn't know how to create the stock side of the trasnaction at all.
14:24:26 <FrozenZia> hmmm - don't know that I have any sort of "expansion" installed...
14:24:44 <andrewsw> lol
14:25:06 <FrozenZia> for that matter if you ask, I don't have any recollection even how I installed gnucash...
14:25:06 <andrewsw> ;) SX "expands" to scheduled transaction
14:25:30 <FrozenZia> aaaaahhhhh! Lights come on ....
14:25:54 <FrozenZia> sorry jsled - I was extremely slow...
14:26:06 <jsled> sorry, I was quite brief.
14:26:09 <FrozenZia> hadn't even realized I asked 2 q's
14:27:01 <FrozenZia> but yeah, I basically created the fund purchase I wanted, then added that transaction to the schedule.
14:27:24 <FrozenZia> First scheduled ones just came due a few days ago, so here we are..
14:28:22 <andrewsw> so, to clarify, you are talking about entering a *new* txn, by hand, in the fund register, and then the amount gets changed?
14:28:56 <andrewsw> *or* you are talking about an SX that is automatically entered and shows wierd behavior?
14:29:48 <FrozenZia> the latter. But am thinking I ran into some odd stuff earlier too, with a manually entered tx (transaction)
14:30:15 <FrozenZia> That's why I'm wondering if I'm doing something weird even when entering a new tx by hand.
14:30:25 <andrewsw> yeah, the latter is unsupported, and just won't work (if I understand jsled correctly).
14:30:26 <FrozenZia> Should I start by splitting the tx?
14:30:57 <andrewsw> you may be seeing something weird as it tries to recall a previously entered, possibly incorrect, txn.
14:31:14 <andrewsw> try entering one with a unique, new, description and see what happens.
14:31:18 <FrozenZia> andrewsw: right, that's what I'm thinking.
14:32:16 <FrozenZia> yeah, but would it be like: desription = "blah" (tab) (tab) 30 shares (tab) (tab) 50 buy (tab)?
14:32:37 <FrozenZia> the help said leave shares out, put in the price and the buy amt...
14:32:55 <FrozenZia> But then I thought there was some issue with split tx's
14:33:20 <andrewsw> the register will provide new split lines for you as you go along, so don't sweat that.
14:33:45 <andrewsw> following the "blah" example above works just fine here, giving a price of 1.66667
14:34:17 <FrozenZia> yeah, that's what I got..., withdrawal from Imbalance-EUR.
14:34:29 <FrozenZia> This is probably just the SX problem then...
14:34:43 <andrewsw> you have to enter a balance split as well, to avoid the Imbalance.
14:34:46 <andrewsw> probably.
14:34:55 <FrozenZia> What's the method for "upgrading"?
14:35:03 <andrewsw> what OS?
14:35:07 <FrozenZia> ubuntu
14:35:19 <FrozenZia> if it's clearly explained somewhere, just point me...
14:35:52 <andrewsw> follow ubuntu's upgrade advice. I don't know how it works over there. You might have to actually upgrade the whole OS, I don't know, as I don't use ubuntu.
14:36:21 <andrewsw> my snarky advice is to install debian and go from there... ;)
14:37:01 <FrozenZia> Naturally my biggest concern is loss of data -- my ignorance is showing, but I don't even know what file(s) all the data is in - I'll want to back that up...
14:37:12 <warlord> upgrading gnucash wont lose data
14:37:19 <warlord> (unless you do a full system re-install)
14:38:20 <FrozenZia> andrewsw: how's it go on debian?
14:38:34 <andrewsw> aptitude install gnucash
14:38:37 <andrewsw> or
14:38:40 <FrozenZia> I can do that.
14:38:44 <andrewsw> aptitude dist-upgrade
14:38:54 <andrewsw> since I run sid.
14:39:16 <andrewsw> Yes, but what I don't know about ubuntu is whether your apt system points to updated repos or not... if you follow.
14:39:33 <andrewsw> you could do `apt-cache policy gnucash` and see what it spits out
14:39:47 <FrozenZia> hmmmm -- not sure. I know what you mean, though...
14:40:27 <FrozenZia> =o( W: Unable to locate package gnu-cash
14:40:36 <andrewsw> I am thinking that if you want to get more updated packages for a particular ubuntu release, you have to point your sources.list to a different repo and upgrade maybe the whole system, or at least large chunks of it.
14:40:44 <andrewsw> there is no dash in gnucash
14:40:48 * andrewsw is a poet
14:42:12 <FrozenZia> hmmmm... what's the relevant portion of that printout then?
14:42:34 <FrozenZia> Installed: 2.2.1, Candidate: 2.2.1
14:43:07 <andrewsw> right, that means there is no available update. ummm... did you `aptitude update` first? that would refresh your local apt-cache
14:43:50 <FrozenZia> of course I didn't. But it didn't have any affect...
14:43:54 <FrozenZia> effect*
14:45:19 <andrewsw> yeah, you'll have to ask ubuntu people for advice on that.
14:45:29 <andrewsw> I don't want to send you down the wrong path.
14:45:47 <FrozenZia> okey dokey
14:46:12 <FrozenZia> ...and I just take warlord's word that my data won't disappear?
14:46:39 <FrozenZia> (I suppose I can figure out what file I oughta backup since I'm paranoid...)
14:46:47 <jsled> it's just your datafile, basically.
14:47:13 <andrewsw> the name of the file should be the first item in the window title, before the '-'
14:47:52 <FrozenZia> Ah, got it - in .gnucash/books...
14:48:13 <jsled> No.
14:48:19 <FrozenZia> ?
14:48:30 <jsled> That's not your datafile. And if you saved your datafile into ~/.gnucash/books/, you should immediately save it somewhere else.
14:48:45 <jsled> That's a metadata file gnucash maintains about your datafile.
14:48:56 <FrozenZia> but has the same name?
14:49:03 <andrewsw> yes
14:49:07 <jsled> It does have the same basename, yes.
14:49:45 <FrozenZia> okay, I've got it. Yes, it's in a "safe" place..
14:50:04 <FrozenZia> thanks.
14:52:00 <FrozenZia> Any suggestions on how to best handle a monthly mutual fund purchase, then? Just put a note to myself to go in and enter the tx's every month?
14:54:00 <andrewsw> pretty much that's it. If it's part of your payroll transaction, you could put a hook for it in the payroll transaction to remind you.
14:54:48 *** andrewsw is now known as andrewsw-afk
14:54:51 <andrewsw-afk> cya
14:55:54 <FrozenZia> well, no, won't work in my case -- but that did bring to mind another question...
14:56:52 <FrozenZia> when I have tx's scheduled that come due, and I start gnucash, it gives me a dialog about "here's the tx's I created for you"
14:57:16 <FrozenZia> and then something about reviewing them, but as soon as I go look at the 1st one, I have no idea how to get back to the list.
14:57:46 <jsled> There is no way to do so. You can only review the created transactions.
14:59:15 <FrozenZia> do you mean the "review" is what I'm supposedly doing if I look at the list?
14:59:30 <FrozenZia> Not actually going TO the tx and seeing the details...?
14:59:37 <jsled> That's right.
14:59:50 <FrozenZia> Okay, that makes more sense now, then.
15:01:29 <FrozenZia> tx for all the help! Back to the books, now...
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15:35:19 <warlord> And yes, you should just take my word for it! :-P
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16:14:37 <quotemstr> Why don't people use an accounts payable setup for personal bills?
16:15:27 <warlord> Because it's a lot of overhead to enter... and because personal bills are all cash-based accounting
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16:50:15 <quotemstr> What does a thick blue line in the account window mean?
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16:51:01 <andrewsw> that is "tomorrow"...
16:51:09 <andrewsw> check the dates. future txns show below the line
16:51:49 <quotemstr> Ah, okay.
16:51:51 <quotemstr> Thanks.
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16:56:07 <cfbauer> i installed libaqbanking20, libaqbanking20-plugins, and libaqbanking20-qt
16:56:07 <cfbauer> i've been told to access the wizard with the tools > online banking or tools > HBCI in the menu
16:56:07 <cfbauer> but there is no menu item called online banking or something similar
16:56:07 <cfbauer> (12:21:27 AM) cfbauer: there are a set of online banking options in the preferences, which seems odd since I can't find where to set it up
16:56:30 <cfbauer> oops, i meant to clean that up a bit before posting
16:56:37 <warlord> cfbauer: you need to rebuild gnucash with AqB
16:56:45 <cfbauer> ok
16:57:12 <cfbauer> i think i saw instructions for that on a wiki
16:57:16 <warlord> yep
16:57:27 <cfbauer> i'll look around
16:57:29 <warlord> Are you on debian or ubuntu?
16:57:35 <cfbauer> ubuntu hardy
16:57:46 <warlord> there might be a package available on launchpad
16:58:18 <cfbauer> what would it be labled?
16:59:22 <warlord> No clue. I dont do ubuntu
16:59:28 <cfbauer> fair enough
16:59:43 <warlord> but I would try "gnucash" ;)
17:00:07 <cfbauer> hmmm.... that's so crazy it just might work
17:00:33 <cfbauer> thanks for your help
17:00:33 <warlord> heh
17:00:38 <warlord> you're welcome
17:00:51 <cfbauer> anything i can do for you?
17:01:48 <warlord> be happy? ;)
17:03:00 <cfbauer> well gnucash should help my foray into freelancing, which would mean i have a paying job which would make me real happy
17:03:14 <warlord> :)
17:03:21 <cfbauer> chhers
17:03:23 <cfbauer> cheers
17:03:41 <warlord> slainte
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17:47:50 <syllogism> Hey guys - is there any hope of an Integrated Payroll system any time soon?
17:48:11 <jsled> short answer: no. Define "soon"?
17:48:14 <syllogism> I need some software to manage my business and was hoping to use gnucash, but I didn't realize it didn't handle payroll yet..
17:48:49 <syllogism> jsled: anything in svn/cvs?
17:49:02 <jsled> no. no one is working on such a feature.
17:49:21 <syllogism> jsled: Can you recommend any OSS to handle such a task?
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17:50:54 <jsled> I don't really know, but maybe take a look at ledger-smb (née sql-ledger)?
17:53:17 <syllogism> jsled: ok, thank you
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20:38:16 <syllogism> Hey guys, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction...
20:39:25 <syllogism> I read that you can 'kind of' support payroll in GnuCash by using a spreadsheet and mapping it to gnucash somehow
20:39:56 <syllogism> but I haven't been able to find a good example on the Internet of how to do this, and I was hoping someone could give me a tip or two
21:03:27 <mishehu> I've always done it myself. I'm writing my own little app to do it for me automatically even
21:06:31 <syllogism> mishehu: Sounds like a hassle
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21:41:53 <mishehu> syllogism: absolutely. in fact, anything involving taxes gives me heartburn.
21:42:08 <mishehu> s/taxes/government even heh
21:45:10 <syllogism> mishehu: I may end up having to do the same it looks like... I've been scouring the Internet for hours looking for a good solution that does Payroll, but turned up nothing... and I'd hate to end up using quickbooks
21:48:06 * mishehu gags
21:49:02 <mishehu> although I like gnucash as a program (took a little to get used to doing dual-entry, but love it now), I'm moving ever so slowly to my own program that doesn't require gnome.
21:49:21 <mishehu> make that extremely slowly, haven't worked at all on the project in the past 6 months.
21:49:24 <mishehu> maybe longer.
21:51:47 <syllogism> mishehu: I just honestly can't believe that this software isn't readily available... I've never had this much trouble finding a piece of software that did what I need lol
21:55:23 <quotemstr> What's so great about not needing gnome?
22:02:23 <mishehu> syllogism: tax codes are difficult to program for in a generic manner. each region of the world has its own set of laws and regulations. companies like intuit (quickbooks) make money by selling code to do the calculations specific to your region.
22:02:35 <mishehu> quotemstr: whats so great about needing gnome?
22:02:54 <mishehu> none of my *nix machines have gnome on them anymore. haven't for several years.
22:03:21 <mishehu> I actually use the windows build of gnucash, which works well (kudos to the person doing the build for that)
22:05:13 <quotemstr> It's just another library. You're not forced to use the desktop environment.
22:05:35 <mishehu> *a*nother library? said library has about 30 dependencies.
22:06:19 <mishehu> aside from pango, gtk2, glib2, most do not already exist on my systems.
22:06:41 <mishehu> and dealing with guile and slib is a pain.
22:06:45 <syllogism> good night guys, i'll probably finish driving myself insane tomorrow or so with this payroll nonsense
22:07:03 <mishehu> syllogism: I have an extra strait jacket if you like
22:07:05 * mishehu chuckles
22:07:23 <quotemstr> syllogism: Have fun.
22:07:28 <syllogism> just out of curiosity, who would be the person to talk to about getting basic payroll support added to gnucash?
22:07:39 <quotemstr> mishehu: Eh. I learned to spend my time on things more worthwhile than dependency minimalization.
22:07:55 <mishehu> syllogism: I'm not sure, but I've "known" warlord to be one of the folks whose been around here forever.
22:08:32 <mishehu> quotemstr: I'm not purposefully trying to minimize. gnucash is the only app I use that requires gnome libs.
22:08:42 <syllogism> alright, thanks - I might catch up with him sometime
22:08:48 <syllogism> gnight
22:08:54 <syllogism> and thanks for the help
22:08:59 *** syllogism has quit IRC
22:09:38 <mishehu> and I believe that gnucash is also the only app I use that uses guile too.
22:10:29 <quotemstr> Yes, but it's Scheme, a relative of God's own language. :-)
22:11:55 <mishehu> you obviously don't watch futurama. g0d speaks in binary.
22:12:34 <mishehu> and scheme is by no means a divine programming language. it's just anotehr language. has some pluses, and some minuses. it might fit very well in this context. I don't work with it so I don't know.
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22:14:55 <dbreiser> grumble grumble. folks who don't get an answer in a couple hours on irc should try the mailing list
22:15:14 <dbreiser> aqbanking20 won't work with gnucash <2.2.6
22:18:00 <mishehu> I have no experience w/aqbanking
22:21:00 <dbreiser> I was referring to 2 inquiries earlier today. I generally use aqbanking16, but I can use 20 too.
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