2008-08-13 GnuCash IRC logs
00:04:14 <jcarter> jsled: I followed all the steps in <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSXInstallation#gnucash-2.2.x>. Still can´t find gnucash2.
00:20:18 <dbreiser> jcarter: what do you get in response to 'fink --version'? (better use pastebin for the response)
00:21:05 <dbreiser> in particular, what is the fink version number, and what is the Distribution version?
01:11:20 <jcarter> dbreiser: Trying fink selfupdate-rsync: currently building gnucash2. Even if it is only 2.2.5, that will be a start. Many thank.
01:11:35 <dbreiser> OK
01:13:34 <jcarter> dbreiser: fink version is 0.28.5. Distribution version is selfupdate-rsync (0.9.0) 10.5, 1386
01:14:24 <dbreiser> sounds good. If you want 2.2.6, you'll have to enable unstable via the questions in 'fink configure'
01:15:59 <jcarter> dbreiser: this build is a long one, eh? And unstable IS enabled. I ran ´fink configure´ and made that happen, also checked /sw/etc/fink.conf to confirm it is in the Tree.
01:16:33 <dbreiser> hmm. then you should have seen 2.2.6.
01:17:02 <dbreiser> gnucash itself takes 25 minutes. If you are starting from scratch, it'll take at least a couple hours
01:18:07 <jcarter> dbreiser: What do you know? fink does find 2.2.6-101. That´s what must be building right now.
01:18:37 <dbreiser> whew. I thought there was something weird going on
01:18:56 <jcarter> Nah! Just me. I´m new at this.
01:21:44 <jcarter> It´s been a long time since I´ve created a build script. This one looks real hairy.
01:22:15 <dbreiser> I mostly copy and paste :)
01:23:01 <jcarter> Standing on the shoulders of giants, eh?
01:23:12 <dbreiser> yep
01:25:06 <jcarter> It would be helpful if this build had a meter stick to judge the percentage complete.
01:25:28 <dbreiser> yeah. it gets really long and convoluted
01:26:50 <jcarter> In the quiet mode, it could spit out dots mixed with occasional percentage indicators.
01:27:45 <dbreiser> but you wouldn't necessarily know percentage of which package, and certainly not percentage of the whole dependency chain
01:30:33 <jcarter> Well, only the whole would need to be known. You do a build once, time it, and have a parallel process do the tracking with interrupts from the build to kick off the timer at the required intervals.
01:31:05 <jcarter> That way it is platform independent.
01:31:51 <dbreiser> I s'pose, but most maintainers are mostly worried about whether it works. And then they run out of time or energy
01:32:03 <jcarter> I know the feeling.
01:35:38 <jcarter> Making all in libxslt
01:36:14 <dbreiser> by this time, I usually just go to sleep and hope it finishes
01:36:43 <jcarter> I´m going. Thanks for your help. See you in eight.
01:37:03 <dbreiser> ok. good luck
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09:19:03 <merc> you around warlord?
09:20:47 <merc> I have a friend who would like to write a online (AJAX) accounting software. It would be done the *right* way, interface-wise. How separated is the UI to the engine in GNUCash? And how much work would it be to write the server side of things? Are you available for consultancy?
09:30:29 <warlord-slow> Unfortunately there is a LOT of accounting logic in the UI currently.
09:33:00 <warlord-slow> (also, not sure what you mean by "*right* way, interface-wise"
09:33:01 <warlord-slow> )
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11:13:05 <jcarter> gnucash 2.2.6 up and running on my Intel Mac OS X 10.5.4, with docs. I opened a .xac file from gnucash 2.2.4 running in Ubuntu and it came up just fine!
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12:29:17 <merc> you here warlord?
12:29:50 <jsled> merc: what's your question?
12:30:24 <merc> I asked it earlier. A friend wants to implement the equivalent of GNUCash, but as an Ajax program
12:30:30 <merc> I was asking for help/advice
12:30:36 <merc> And especially
12:30:51 <merc> About reusing GNUCash's code for it. But, he told me that a lot of logic is in the interface...
12:31:13 <jsled> a fair bit, yes. But there's a fair bit that's not, too.
12:31:42 <jsled> (I'm also not sure what you mean by the "*right* way". :)
12:32:02 <merc> Ah
12:32:23 <merc> The "right way" meaning that it would not be an HTML cludge. It owuld be a proper Ajax application, with proper shortcuts etc.
12:32:44 <jsled> I see.
12:33:02 <jsled> What parts of the gnucash code would you want to re-use?
12:34:37 <merc> Well
12:34:56 <merc> If GNUCash were built so that it had a backend part and a front end module, the back end :-D
12:35:02 <merc> All the reporting part etc.
12:35:15 <merc> But it seems a little unlikely
12:36:53 <jsled> it's in part built that way … while there is a fair bit of app logic in the ui-response code, it is architected for such a split.
12:37:10 <jsled> The reporting code is UI-agnostic … it generates HTML that the front-end then renders.
12:37:18 <jsled> But the reporting code has its own problems, even so.
12:37:46 <jsled> the fundamental financial "engine", though, it absolutely ui-agnostic, and can be reused.
12:37:54 <jsled> Likewise the backend and some app infrastructure code.
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12:38:52 <jsled> You may want to take a look, but you'll probably need to ask more specific questions.
12:38:57 <merc> OK
12:39:06 <merc> Well, this was the "introductionary" question, so that I get an idea
12:39:11 <merc> Thing is,
12:39:17 <merc> Starting from scratch would be a little insane
12:39:48 <merc> What you said about the fundamental financial "engine" heing UI agnostic is interesting though
12:39:56 <jsled> src/engine/ :)
12:40:11 <merc> Before I look at the code, what kind of functionality IN GENERAL does it provide?
12:40:21 <merc> And would you think that it's easy enough to interface to it using PHP?
12:40:33 <jsled> (plus src/app-util/ and src/core-util/ and a few others).
12:40:34 <jsled> The register is a proper MVC split, but that would really not carry over to a web paradigm.
12:41:42 <andrewsw> are the python bindings of any help in this situation (/me honestly doesn't know)
12:41:49 <jsled> merc: See http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/
12:41:54 <merc> OK
12:42:03 <jsled> http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/group__Engine.html
12:42:26 <jsled> andrewsw: maybe. SWIG should be able to be coaxed into helping with the PHP binding.
12:42:27 <merc> Wow OK
12:42:39 <merc> Is that documentation absolutely up-to-date?
12:43:09 <jsled> Yes and no. It's generated from SVN nightly from the sources, but it's still documentation, so maybe lags the code.
12:43:20 <jsled> (Implementation is the Only Truth)
12:44:02 <merc> OK
12:44:10 <merc> I am gonna pass this on to Andrea, and see what he thinks.
12:44:11 <jsled> merc: But, it's widely and generally correct.
12:48:52 <merc> Having a program like GNUCash in Ajax would be _grand_
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12:49:07 <merc> You can show your books to your accountant, and have multiple people working on them...
12:49:24 <merc> Plus the UI would be a breeze using YUI, the yahoo javascript library
12:49:27 <jsled> yeah. There are web-based finance software.
12:49:32 <jsled> Mint. Wesabe.
12:49:36 <merc> But it would be just too much work from scratch.
12:49:54 <merc> ]jslet: I am not talking about web based accounting software... I am talking about an Ajax app. It's a very different story.
12:49:58 <jsled> But I think a self-hosted solution make a lot more sense.
12:50:04 <jsled> merc: lol.
12:50:32 <jsled> merc: no, it's not. "AJAX" is the web. Calling it something different is silly.
12:50:50 <merc> jsled: I agree. That's why a program written in Ajax and released under the GPL would allow that
12:50:57 <merc> jsled: I agree to disagree on Ajax :-D
12:51:13 <jsled> huh?
12:51:14 <merc> You have to convince me that "Google documents" is a web site. Then I will agree with you :_D
12:51:27 <jsled> huh?
12:51:31 <jsled> How is it not a website?
12:51:37 <jsled> HTTP. HTML. CSS. Javascript.
12:51:40 <jsled> That's the web.
12:51:45 <jsled> "AJAX" is not fucking magic pixie dust.
12:52:36 <jsled> It's just a very good website. :)
12:52:38 <merc> jsled: there is a definite difference betweeb web pages and Ajax applications
12:52:45 <jsled> no, there's not.
12:52:46 <merc> I am writing an article about it right now
12:52:56 <merc> Oh well, that's why I said "I agree to disagree" :-D
12:53:33 <jsled> I'd love to see that article.
12:54:23 <jsled> anyways. Gotta run. biab.
12:54:24 <merc> The gist is: if you don't browse it, and if there is no actual contents and if it's all happening in a Javascript window opened to do something specific, you aree seeing an Ajax application
12:54:27 <merc> OK
12:54:39 <merc> See ya later...!
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13:13:02 <warlord-slow> Wow, glad I missed that exchange!
13:13:41 <andrewsw> per wikipedia, ajax is a technique for developing intertactive web apps, but it appears to still be http GET's and POST's to display remote content on a local screen...
13:13:53 <warlord-slow> right
13:14:07 <andrewsw> hmmm... looks like it's the web after all.
13:14:40 <andrewsw> what's really funny is that AJAX, asynchronous javascript and XML, doesn't actually require any of those things to still be called AJAX.
13:15:00 * andrewsw crawls back into his lynx enabled, terminal driven hovel.
13:19:08 <warlord-slow> Heh
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14:30:34 <pogma> someone emailed me asking about a commercial license for libofx (says that Benoit has not responded to his email). I can only think to point them at the libofx mailing list. Any better ideas?
14:36:14 <warlord-slow> Ummm.. isn't it GPL?
14:36:21 <warlord-slow> What kind of commercial license do they want?
14:36:47 <warlord-slow> (btw, hi pogma!)
14:38:08 <jsled> Well, he has somewhat of a point, in that the user agent isn't directly navigating a resource/URI space even though the app might be.
14:38:25 <jsled> But I call such applications "broken", actually. :) At least, not restful.
14:38:53 <jsled> I think a hybrid app is the right approach, but, hey, that's a different discussion for a different channel, probably.
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14:56:33 <JoeyJoeJo> Is there a site that hosts user created custom reports for gnucash?
14:57:02 <warlord-slow> nope.
14:57:35 <warlord-slow> anything that would have been donated to such a site would have been incorporated back into the GnuCash distro.
14:57:54 <JoeyJoeJo> I see
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15:01:31 <warlord-slow> is there a particular report you're looking for?
15:02:32 <JoeyJoeJo> Not really
15:05:13 <JoeyJoeJo> I was just thinking that someone might have made a really neat and useful report that I didn't think of
15:06:00 <warlord-slow> when that happens we add it to gnucash.
15:06:08 <pogma> warlord-slow: he just said "commercial license". I just replied pointing him at the mailing list.pwd
15:06:20 <warlord-slow> ok
15:06:24 <pogma> heh. pwd was meant for another window :)
15:06:29 <warlord-slow> :)
15:12:35 <JoeyJoeJo> Does anyone know if online banking with bank of america is working? I tried it and I get the error that they don't support my software version.
15:15:27 <warlord-slow> i suggest asking on the list.
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