2008-08-06 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:04:40 <holt_kessler> hi
01:05:12 <holt_kessler> anyone build from src?
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01:19:37 <holt_kessler> has anyone tried to compile with aqbanking 3.3.6?
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09:23:50 <holt_kessler> is there somewhere to post a compile log?
09:26:31 <jsled> http://pastebin.ca/
09:26:56 <holt_kessler> jsled, thanks
09:28:49 <holt_kessler> jsled, have you compiled from src?
09:35:02 <jsled> holt_kessler: yes. When I was doing development I would regularly, and being on gentoo "I" build every release from source.
09:35:25 <holt_kessler> excellent
09:35:43 <holt_kessler> jsled, I'm visiting from GNU/Lunar
09:36:51 <holt_kessler> we just put 2.2.26 in the repo last night
09:38:22 <jsled> Lunar?
09:38:49 <holt_kessler> Lunar GNU/Linux
09:39:02 <jsled> Oh not another bloody distro.
09:39:12 <holt_kessler> ?
09:39:17 <jsled> :)
09:39:44 <holt_kessler> If ya know gentoo ya know Lunar
09:40:08 <jsled> So, uh, why another distro?
09:40:32 * holt_kessler is now flumoxed
09:43:15 <jsled> hmm?
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09:47:49 <holt_kessler> jsled, openhb is giving me fits
09:49:54 <jsled> openhb?
09:53:54 <LiF0> Maybe there are some Win32 guys here now? I can not print invoices. I posted the same information yesterday... Print Invoice will show me the invoice but if I click the Print button on the toolbar, I get "Unspecified fatal error encountered, aborting." When I click OK, I get the MS VC++ "Runtime Error!" dialog. Anyone have any ideas? Is there a log file somewhere that will help me?
09:54:53 <holt_kessler> jsled, openhbci
09:54:56 <LiF0> In some previous recent version I was able to print invoices but the characters appeared inverted. Now when I try the application crashes completely...
09:55:19 <LiF0> (2.2.5 / 2.2.6 both crash like this for me)
09:55:36 <jsled> holt_kessler: okay. I'm not super up on recent versions, but if you post the build failure maybe I can help.
09:55:57 <jsled> LiF0: you can try running with --debug, but if it's a crasher I'm not sure what that would help.
09:56:56 <LiF0> will it log via Win32 debug messages?
09:57:18 <jsled> no.
09:57:42 <jsled> There's a file … gnucash.trace. You can also use --logto to specify the file, or indicate stdout / stderr.
09:57:58 <jsled> I believe on windows it'll be in your user temp dir.
09:58:14 <jsled> Or, maybe, in whatever dir %TEMP% points to.
09:59:07 <holt_kessler> jsled, thanks
10:00:02 <LiF0> yah. cd %temp% found me some trace files
10:01:45 <LiF0> man, would be nice to have timestamps on that trace file!!
10:02:00 <LiF0> last line in the file is : * OTHER <GLib> gmem.c:135: failed to allocate 4294967272 bytes
10:02:47 <LiF0> like someone decremented 0 to get to -1 but it was a uint...
10:03:05 <jsled> That's interesting. There should be timestamps [[[
10:03:05 <jsled> * 10:02:49 INFO <qof.object> [qof_object_foreach] type=Split
10:03:06 <jsled> ]]]
10:03:13 * jsled shrugs
10:03:29 <LiF0> hm...weird. no timestamps in mine...
10:16:38 <LiF0> I tailed a trace file and the onlyline that appeared when I clicked the Print button was the same as before: * OTHER <GLib> gmem.c:135: failed to allocate 4294967272 bytes
10:17:15 <LiF0> a stack trace would be nice.
10:17:52 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Debugging_with_gdb
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10:25:02 <LiF0> hmm. some interesting stuff pops up, still not meaning much to me... warning: UI: IOEMUI: GetInfo() exit pcbNeeded is NULL! ERROR_INVALID_PARAMETER
10:27:24 <LiF0> I ran the back trace in gdb and it looks like the last "real" thing it did was try to run load_paper_sources() in libgnomeprintwin32.dll ..... so the theories that it was "another" gnomeprint bug are probably true......
10:28:29 <LiF0> from the stack it appears that it was loading the printer list. so it probably doesn't like some data that one of my printer drivers is giving it about itself...
10:29:17 <LiF0> my default printer doesn't have selectable papersources, but my canon does. i wonder if i could just disable that printer and it would work.
10:34:03 <LiF0> wow, i deleted my Canon printer drivers and now the print dialog comes up
10:35:03 <LiF0> oh nice.
10:35:07 <LiF0> now everthing is printing inverted again
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10:42:21 <LiF0> HAH.
10:42:30 <LiF0> I printed to a Microsoft Document Writer and everything is still inverted.
10:42:55 <LiF0> So I guess it's not my printer.
10:43:30 <jsled> No, the inversion problem is not the printer … it's somewhere higher in the stack.
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10:44:23 <jsled> Some notes <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Check_Printing_characters_inverted>; there's a bug linked there, which further links to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462148
10:44:52 <LiF0> Yeah I saw that. I unchecked the "advanced features" on my printer driver.
10:45:17 <LiF0> Made no difference. Doesn't make sense to me that it's a problem with my printer driver if it's printing exactly the same way to Microsoft XPS Document Writer
10:45:44 <LiF0> (when I open the XPS on my machine it looks exactly like my Brother 1240 is printing it)
10:48:11 <LiF0> The built in PDF writer will write a correct looking PDF file. But I also have PageManager PDF Creator installed (which is a Windows printer driver that outputs a PDF). The PDF generated by PageManager looks just like my Laser output AND the MS XPS Document Writer output.
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10:51:08 <LiF0> Wow, the PDF generated by built in PDF writer looks fantastic.
10:53:01 <LiF0> I guess I just can't print Photos on my Canon printer from this computer.
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13:20:06 <Charles> Are the mailing lists working? Last mail I received was 2 days ago.
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14:07:11 <Samper> I have started using GnuCash about 3 or four times now. I usualy get de-motivated because it is hard to make things work for a home user. Who might i forward comments and suggestions to?
14:08:43 <jsled> here. the gnucash-user mailing list. You could file RFEs in bugzilla.
14:08:59 <jsled> This channel is logged, so you're free to rant here and link to it, if you like. :)
14:09:32 <Samper> I guess a discussion might make some sense, so I can figure out if it's my end or if its a user interface end...
14:09:45 <jsled> And it easily could be either. Or both! :)
14:09:56 <Samper> My biggest quam is the way that gnucash imports records from my online banking.
14:11:00 <Samper> I find that the something happens to time stamps on transactions.. When I download them to gnucash they show up in different, sometimes random orders compared to what the online banking system shows. this makes it a challenge to match transaction side by side...
14:11:09 <Samper> this happens especialy for transaction made o n the same day.
14:12:44 <Samper> it would be nice and much easier if downloaded transactions would match my online system... is this a function of gnucash or the format I choose to download?
14:13:15 <jsled> What format of download/import? QIF? OFX?
14:15:33 <LiF0> Gah. I turned off Advanced Printing Options on ALL of my printer drivers and now it FINALLY prints rightside-up instead of inverted. Too bad it still only prints the lower half of the characters.. Yeesh. Is anyone printing on Windows? Am I the only person that is having all these stupid problems getting stuff to print...?
14:16:06 <jsled> LiF0: well, no, which is why it's documented, bugged and has a bunch of traffic on the mailing list.
14:16:24 <jsled> LiF0: but it's also not getting *fixed*, either. :(
14:16:41 <jsled> s/documented/wiki'd/
14:17:22 <Samper> jsled: qfx
14:17:47 <jsled> I thought that importer had a duplicate detector, as well … does it not?
14:18:34 <LiF0> Well so far I've found workarounds for a few of the issues, I had to delete my canon MX850 printer so it would stop crashing horribly. But everything prints inverted. Turned off Advanced Printing Options on just my laser and it didn't fix anything. The closest I've come to "printing" is using the PDF output support. I might as well just put a shortcut on my desktop to "Output.pdf" and open it, click print when i want to print an invoice.
14:18:55 <LiF0> Is building it on Win32 really that hard? I have VS
14:19:26 <Samper> yes, it catches duplicates... but it's the order... my online baking will have an order of transacation say 1,2,3,4,5 and gnucash will load them as 5,4,3,2,1 or 1,6,2,4,9... the orders don't match.. so perhaps in a day gnucash says I blow my ballance, but I never do because online I transfer things in a order that never blows my ballance.. make sens?
14:19:26 <jsled> We don't build using VS. I don't believe it's "hard" … it might even be "mostly automated".
14:20:07 <jsled> Ah. Sure. GnuCash always puts credits before debits, iirc.
14:20:16 <LiF0> What is it compiled with? GCC Win32?
14:20:17 <jsled> (or maybe it's vice versa)
14:20:35 <jsled> LiF0: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Instructions_for_an_.28almost.29_automated_build
14:20:39 <jsled> mingw32/gcc
14:20:59 <LiF0> Yeah, that sounds painful.
14:21:13 <jsled> Samper: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_order_transactions_in_a_register_so_deposits_are_before_withdrawls.3F
14:21:17 <Samper> jsled: this makes it very confusin when trying to cross reference maby transaction mith my original and authoritative source, the bank
14:21:47 <Samper> jsled: I'll chekc the link, but again chronology is more import that debits/credits
14:22:34 <LiF0> jsled - thanks for the links.
14:24:51 <Samper> jsled: it looks like that the internal will log chronology to the second, what is about being concerned with debits/credits? I'm no banking dude, but I just want to have something that I can verify against my banking system.. and right now i can't even get the numbers to match because I am so confused...
14:25:41 <jsled> Samper: I'm not sure about what's up with the timestamps; maybe the import is artifically truncating them, or something.
14:25:47 <Samper> jsled: furthermore, because my bank does not tell me what accounts I send money to and from it just says you transfered something I have to do further work looking at ammounts to figure out what to tell GNUCash. Again focusing on chronology would be easier.
14:26:01 <jsled> Are you using the reconcilation function?
14:26:22 <Samper> jsled: that's where I can give it fictisous ammount to make thing equal right?
14:26:55 <Charles> FWIW, transactions are sorted internally by posting date, then by description, then by GUID. Not sure if the register resorts to show them in a different order though.
14:27:09 <Charles> Are the mailing lists working? Last mail I received was 2 days ago.
14:27:52 <jsled> well, no. It's where you enter the amount on the statement as of a given date, then mark the transaction that have appeared on the statement as reconciled.
14:28:15 <jsled> Charles: yup ... I see messages I moderate through, and see your two messages from today.
14:29:00 <Samper> jsled: alright, that is finance lingo beyond me... I'm using gnucash to try and make a monthly house budget and track finances.... sorry, you'll have to explain... (BTW some of the gnucash docs are quite finance centric, another barrier to adoption)
14:29:03 <Charles> OK, great. Just checking since there have been some problems lately.
14:29:13 <jsled> Samper: you might try View > Sort By > …
14:29:40 <jsled> It is a personal finance app, so I'd expect some of the docs to be finance-centric. :)
14:30:32 <Samper> I guess I look at it from the personal centric side.. :) I understand that open source tends to automaticaly assume a higher level of knowledge, but when it comes to money, I just want it to work
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14:40:03 <sampe1> hey folks... trying to figure out the sorting thing...
14:40:26 <sampe1> What is the diff between date of entry and statement date (view>sort)
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14:41:36 <jsled> One is the date you entered the data. The other is the date on which the transaction actually occurred.
14:42:08 <Samper> so if I wanted to synch with my online bank I would choose statement date?
14:42:20 <jsled> yes
14:42:42 <Samper> ahhh this sorting thing might be what I have been looking for...
14:52:16 <Samper> trying latest downloaded files...
14:55:06 <Samper> jsled: alright, now when I sort by statement date the "date "collumn in gnucash is all messed up... can I choose to view the "statement date" collumn?
14:56:25 <jsled> no, there are no other columns
14:58:35 <Samper> Doe sit make snese how I am confused over how the chronology of GNUCASH does not match the Chronology of my bank?
14:58:41 <Samper> make snese?
14:58:46 <Samper> sense?
14:59:31 <jsled> Sure.
15:00:02 <jsled> But, how often do you need to correlate transactions between the two?
15:01:18 <Samper> well I try to all the time to make sure I catch everything... I don't do anything manualy in gnucash.. I just want it to consume my downloaded files, I want to ensure the two sources or co-related and then I want to spit out reports... so every times I donwload the files I want to verify
15:02:03 <Samper> I can't even see how on a given day GNUCASH puts me in the red but I never go in the red on my bank side...
15:02:19 <jsled> It's just "GnuCash".
15:02:36 <Samper> also sometimes I allocate or transfer money to or from a wrong account on GNUcash side and need a way to verify.
15:03:20 <Samper> so how do we fix it?... meaning, how do we make gnucash work better? This has got to be a barrier to adoption for a certain segment...
15:04:06 <Samper> or is there another open source solution I might be wanting to look at?
15:05:12 <jsled> there are other programs, I can't really speak to those. I've only played with kmymoney for a few minutes one time.
15:05:28 <jsled> grisbi exists. I saw yet another one the other day, but can't recall the name.
15:05:57 <jsled> As for gnucash ... well, the "register rewrite" would presumably make it easier to get the extra column in the register.
15:06:07 <Samper> Those ones don't seam as mature as gnucash... would there realy be resistance from gnucash to try and facilitate the home financier
15:06:12 <Samper> What is the register rewrite?
15:06:29 <jsled> Changing the "standard order" to either always or configurably put "credits" before "debits" would be good.
15:07:15 <Samper> but still... should it not be ordered by the occurence of the event?.. this happened then this, then this?
15:07:31 <jsled> No, there's no "resistance". And I don't know why the "home financier" is any different from who you think the app is targeted for.
15:08:19 <jsled> Well, that's how it is supposed to work presently. So, maybe there's another problem here?
15:08:32 <jsled> Like, a timestamp truncation during import or something.
15:08:47 <Samper> well I could see this used for people that are running a company that actualy have a finance education... I don't think I could plot this down in front of my parents who use elaborate spreadsheets and have them use it... so
15:09:00 <Samper> but the docs say that the register keeps track of things per second...
15:09:23 <jsled> The primary focus of the project is personal accounting, not business.
15:10:25 <jsled> I mean, we don't really require "finance education" beyond double-entry accounting. But, yeah, accounting for stuff "correctly" does require some specialized knowledge.
15:10:30 <Samper> So if it is for personal finance, and more and more poeple use internet banking for their finances then why would there not be a closer corelation between an event driven system (online banks) and a debit-credit system (gnucash)?
15:10:54 <jsled> "online banks" are not an "event driven system".
15:11:06 <jsled> They use the same double-entry accounting as everyone else.
15:11:16 <Samper> I still don't even understand double-entry acocunting beside what I read on wikipedia, that money always comes from somewhere and goes somewhere.
15:11:22 <jsled> Right.
15:12:14 <jsled> It's just a convention … a rule (along with some others) that makes it harder to get inconsistent data.
15:12:20 <Samper> jsled.. by event driven I men it logs activities in the order the event occurde... when I ask for a transaction hisotry it doesn't give my a tally of credits then debits, it tells me what events occured (I was not refereing to the prgramatic event driven philosophy of prgaming)...
15:12:51 <jsled> Right, well, gnucash certainly records the timestamps of transactions (entered and posted) and can sort them by those values.
15:14:41 <Samper> I seam to be getting quite inconsisten and ocnfusing results entering my data... so maybe a different system is needed for donwloading and then after you verify the transaction match, the reconcilation s have been made from the right account then flip back to a double-entry view... by the sounds of it I don't want a double entry view... cause it says I am in the hole at the end of the day when infact I am up...
15:15:00 <Samper> oh yhea.. and I can't type :)
15:15:07 <jsled> That has nothing to do with double-entry.
15:15:33 <jsled> I'd say: yes. The UI and user interaction around importing and reconciling data could be improved.
15:15:47 <Samper> So is it unrealistic to assume the GNUcash should reflect line by line what my bank says that I did?
15:16:21 <jsled> Well, I don't think I said that, and I don't know why you'd say it.
15:16:33 <Samper> Just when transaction #5 was to one acoutn and transaction 7 is to another account I would expect those to be in the correct order, or else I spend lots of time hunting for what account the money went to.
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15:16:53 <Samper> sorry, just trying to be understood.
15:17:29 <Samper> unless i am doing something drasticaly wrong... but I followed the docs
15:20:27 <jsled> Samper: Checking just now, the order in which I enter transactions is preserved.
15:20:52 <Samper> OK, how about this... how do I make an account that tells me I am -589.23 at the end of one day after all the transactions actualy read the correct amount of 1694.44? Its frustarting seeing an inconsistancy of over $2k... whihc in tunr makes GNUCash frustrating.
15:21:15 <Samper> jsled: is that entered through gnu cash or downloaded from a QFX?
15:21:45 <jsled> Just me entering transactions in the register.
15:22:33 <Samper> jlsed: That I do not dispute.. infact I was assume that is the way it would happen.... the challenge is importing a downloaded file.
15:22:44 <jsled> What I might recommend is opening your data file, finding one of those QFX-imported transactions, and making sure the timestamps have the appropriate resolution.
15:23:14 <Samper> within gnucahs?
15:23:15 <jsled> Also, you could look at the QFX data itself to see if *it* has the appropriate timestamp data.
15:23:23 <jsled> Within your datafile, yes.
15:23:40 <jsled> Er, sorry. Opening your datafile in a text or xml editor.
15:25:25 <Samper> in text editor the QFX file has an entry in the format <TRNTYPE>XFER<DTPOSTED>20080526024853.000[-5:EST]<TRNAMT>
15:25:33 <Samper> That looks down to the second to me...
15:25:52 <jsled> indeed.
15:28:22 <Samper> however this is interesting.... the suffix is the same for all the entries... 024853.. the dates all change ok.. but the suffixes are all the same
15:28:44 <jsled> ah.
15:28:54 <jsled> That is very interesting. Cause now gnucash has nothing to sort on. :)
15:29:03 <Samper> alright.... so then the next question is if this a QFX thing or a bank thing... :(
15:29:47 <Samper> well, if I was looking at mapping data I would have gone to the data file... but like I said, I'm not a finance perosn so I assume things just to work...
15:30:06 <Samper> Thanks for your time.... time to go to the next source. grrrrr... :)
15:30:19 <Samper> then maybe I can actualy learn how to use GNUCash.
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19:15:42 <Samper> jsled: more info about the QFX file... there is a seprate collumn/tag for transaction number http://rafb.net/p/j9EF9w14.html
19:16:02 <Samper> if you follow the link I posted a segment of a sample download... with zeros for values...
19:17:34 <Samper> Although the <DTPOSTED> tag does not have distinguishable time tags, the <FITID> tag indicates the order in which the transactions occured.
19:18:10 <Samper> So the question is whether gnuCash could sort on <FITID> values AFTER the date and time stamp values.
19:20:21 <jsled> GnuCash knows nothing about "fitid" after the import.
19:20:39 <jsled> It's more a question of if the FITID can be mapped into the gnucash transaction timestamp, vs. whatever is used.
19:21:02 <jsled> But I don't know that code at all, so I don't really know what it does.
19:22:29 <Samper> I just tripped across this, being someone who works on promoting standards for a living I wonder if gnu cash support OFX... http://xml.coverpages.org/ofx.html
19:23:50 <jsled> Yes … QFX is OFX + Quicken extensions (AIUI), but the library we use for import is ostensibly a "ofx" library.
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20:19:50 <holt_kessler> jsled?
20:20:23 <holt_kessler> is there an ''openhbci'' irc channel per chance?
20:24:07 <Samper> jsled: So how might I suggest for some sort of mapping to include the FITID?
20:27:26 <Ozaed_> there is no openhbci anymore, it's called aqbanking
20:28:01 <Ozaed_> in fact there is not even hbci as a standard, it has been renamed to FinTS
20:30:44 <holt_kessler> Ozaed_, I have aqbanking installe but am not sure how to perform ofx transactions
20:31:36 <holt_kessler> I am a US GNUCash user
20:33:19 <Ozaed_> holt_kessler, does http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2 help?
20:34:44 <holt_kessler> sec
20:39:29 <holt_kessler> Ozaed_, what distro you runnin'?
20:40:03 <jsled> Samper: a bug report or gnucash-devel mailing list thread is probably good.
20:40:41 <Ozaed_> holt_kessler, several, mostly centos / fedora
20:41:33 <holt_kessler> I'm runnin' Lunar GNU/Linux, a src based distro a little like Gentoo
20:48:49 <holt_kessler> brb
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