2008-08-02 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:58:56 <pedant> 请问这里有使用中文的人吗？
10:03:41 <pedant> 如果这里开发环境，那就不好意思了，是我误闯禁地了，呵呵
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10:34:09 <gantrixx> Are there any plans for an online version of GNUCash?
11:23:46 <Cypha> I would love an online version and would gladly pay for it. But then again I like online anything, whereas most people today still want offline - Most people still turn their PC's off at night and dial up to 'fetch' their email.
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11:32:05 * martincleaver is in the process of installing 2.25 from Macports
11:36:32 <martincleaver> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSXInstallation#gnucash-2.2.x says:
11:36:46 <martincleaver> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSXInstallation#gnucash-2.2.x
11:36:54 <martincleaver> As of August 2006, GnuCash 2.x works fine on most Intel Macs. Installation of Gnucash 2.x on Intel Macs is easiest using the Fink method referenced above. There have been reports of limited success with the MacPorts method under OS 10.5.x.
11:37:04 <martincleaver> is this still the latest advice?
11:38:06 * martincleaver updates the wiki for http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSXInstallation#gnucash-2.2.x_2
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11:43:30 <jsled> .
11:46:12 <martincleaver> hi jsled
11:46:28 <jsled> … hello.
11:48:00 <jsled> gantrixx: no, there are not plans for an online version.
11:48:42 <jsled> martincleaver: yes, I think those instructions are still generally valid.
11:49:09 <jsled> The fink instructions might need to be modified re: newer gnome packages.
11:49:36 <jsled> I recall seeing some mailing list traffic along those lines, but I don't use OS X, so I didn't really internalize it.
11:49:52 <martincleaver> funny gantrixx asked about an online version - I'd wondered this too
11:50:26 <martincleaver> ok, good. Well, I'll see how the macports version works
11:50:42 <martincleaver> thanks
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12:26:52 <martincleaver> Sure does take a long time to install!
12:45:50 <cortana> Cypha: even though my pc is usually on and i use imap for my mail, i still like to have a real desktop application for doing accounts rather than a web page ;)
12:46:13 <cortana> gantrixx: hard to know if this would be suitable without knowing what your goals are, but you could use VNC or similar to access gnucash running on a server
12:48:57 <martincleaver> ooh, pre-req's are done ;)
13:05:30 <gantrixx> cortana: Well I see GNUCash as the open-source competitor to Quickbooks. I have one of the few accountants that is willing to work with GNUCash, but from time to time she has problems and there is no formal forum for support
13:05:58 <gantrixx> Quickbooks has an online version (requires IE). I was wondering if GNUCash had plans for it.
13:06:35 <martincleaver> Sounds like that would need substantial investment of time
13:06:42 * martincleaver is a n00b, mind
13:06:42 <gantrixx> I think if people didn't have to install it and could just use it online (through their accountants webhosting service), it might be a big hit
13:07:23 <gantrixx> I think my friend at Google said that Google had prototyped a very basic online accounting system, but the shelved it
13:07:38 <jsled> mint.com. wesabe.com
13:08:58 <jsled> "web interface" does't have to mean "hosted", either. A locally-installed app that fired up `firefox --remote http://localhost:1234/accounts/` could be nifty inside the firewall, too.
13:09:31 <jsled> But, yes, lots of work. A lot of gnucash logic is tied pretty close to the GTK UI, right now. At the same time, a lot of it isn't.
13:09:54 <jsled> Anyways, gotta run. Will check scrollback, &c.
13:10:58 <martincleaver> Installed!
13:11:03 <martincleaver> So... it took:
13:11:15 <martincleaver> 1h50m
13:12:14 <gantrixx> 99.9% of the accountants out there will only work with QuickBooks
13:12:32 <gantrixx> GNUCash will import, but not export QuickBooks files
13:13:19 <gantrixx> Too bad there isn't an ODF format for accounting
13:13:53 <martincleaver> Really the project would need GTK to be ported to the web
13:14:09 * martincleaver has another project that would benefit from that too
13:17:38 <martincleaver> I do use QB for my business, presently
13:18:15 <martincleaver> And I give my QB file to my accountant, who edits it and gives it back
13:18:53 <gantrixx> martincleaver: Yes, try doing this with a GNUCash file
13:19:00 <gantrixx> my accountant will do it
13:19:14 <gantrixx> at first she used GNUCash through VMWare
13:19:15 <martincleaver> You have a geeky accountant ;)
13:19:27 <gantrixx> now she uses the Windows version of GNUCash
13:19:41 <jsled> "need GTK to be ported to the web" … it's not really a question of "porting". The paradigms of desktop and web applications are just very different.
13:19:49 <gantrixx> however, she is having a problem and it is hard for me to help her remotelyl
13:20:09 <gantrixx> she is not geeky enough to jump onto an IRC channel to find the answers
13:20:12 <martincleaver> Can you use something like gotomypc?
13:20:35 <martincleaver> in which case it would be too $$ for you to ask her to figure the problem herself
13:20:52 <gantrixx> no, she isn't going to give me access to her pc and all her other client's data
13:21:22 <martincleaver> not even while she is watching and has her hand on the disconnect button?
13:21:32 <martincleaver> y, the desktop paradigm would need accomodating
13:21:35 <gantrixx> Although GNUCash is a good product, the problem is that it doesn't have industry acceptance
13:22:09 <martincleaver> I'm going to try it for my personal finances
13:22:30 <martincleaver> it's weird - on the one hand I'd like that to be web based
13:22:42 <gantrixx> when I gets to the point where an accountant is asking a client for help with his software, she is very close to dropping me unless I switch to Quickbooks
13:23:14 <martincleaver> on the other, I don't trust other orgs with the details
13:23:18 <gantrixx> I'd use Quickbooks online if I didn't have to use IE
13:23:50 <gantrixx> I'm thinking of an online version that I could run from my webhosting service
13:23:52 <martincleaver> even though those other orgs would undoubtedly have tools to add value
13:23:57 <gantrixx> she could log onto my system
13:24:32 <martincleaver> how about mint.com as jsled mentioned?
13:24:51 <gantrixx> and the quickest workaround would be for GNUCash to simply export to QuickBooks format (or some industry accepted standard)
13:25:02 <gantrixx> I'll look into mint.com
13:25:05 <martincleaver> might not be "simple"
13:25:29 <martincleaver> I don't know whether it is US based
13:25:33 <martincleaver> or US only
13:25:43 <martincleaver> or Patriott Act compliant
13:27:02 <gantrixx> the second simpliest solution would be to get more accountants to accept using GNUCash (meaning they would need more clients requesting it), and perhaps a 3rd party support company would sprout up
13:27:33 <gantrixx> the most difficult solution would be to rewrite GNUCash to be webbased
13:27:47 <jsled> Those last two are reversed. :)
13:27:52 <gantrixx> I can't think of anything other than these 3 options
13:28:02 <martincleaver> your simplest solution would need to require 3rd party support first
13:28:09 <martincleaver> chicken-egg-chicken
13:28:34 <gantrixx> martincleaver: I could give my accountant your 800 number :)
13:28:45 <jsled> Another option is to use the reports to generate summaries or transaction lists for the accountant to use.
13:28:54 <jsled> (exporting those as HTML)
13:29:10 <martincleaver> accounting vs. book-keeping dilemma
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13:31:51 <martincleaver> gantrixx: can you use something like VNC over SSH to support her?
13:33:12 * martincleaver worries that he'll spend a lot of time setting up gnucash and then he won't like it
13:39:35 <martincleaver> "Mint.com . Unfortunately, I wasn’t at all able to try it out, because it supports only United States banks and financial institutions."
13:41:53 <gantrixx> martincleaver: I think you are coming up with too extravagent support solutions
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13:42:12 <gantrixx> she is not going to allow me to logon to her system - period
13:42:47 <gantrixx> bottom line, GNUCash must become more accepted within the industry
13:43:12 <gantrixx> that will take some software changes as well as educating customers
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13:43:37 <gantrixx> GNUCash will have to learn from OpenOffice.org and Firefox
13:43:47 <martincleaver> I meant she could log into your GnuCash install
13:43:56 <gantrixx> Make an online version and let Google buy it from you
13:44:34 <gantrixx> martincleaver: ok so now I have to ask her to install and learn to use VNC?
13:44:50 <martincleaver> She used Vmware?
13:45:01 <gantrixx> to you it is simple, but she doesn't want to have a minor in computer science just support me as a client
13:45:14 <gantrixx> GNUCash is what needs to change, not the accountant
13:45:41 <martincleaver> how quickly do you need it to change?
13:46:09 <gantrixx> ok, I just received an email from her. she is going to reinstall GNUCash, if she still has the problem, then she can't use GNUCash with me anymore
13:46:47 <martincleaver> Sounds like GNUCash isn't going to change fast enough for you
13:47:17 <gantrixx> martincleaver: there is no deadline. people will find a way to work around GNUCash for as long as it isn't convenient for them (the non-Linux crowd).
13:47:50 <gantrixx> martincleaver: from what I heard here today, it doesn't sound like it is going to change at all. No plans
13:48:08 <gantrixx> the beauty of using an online system is that it could be platform independant
13:48:19 <martincleaver> Perhaps you can build her a VMware image that has everything she needs to VNC/SSH into your system.
13:49:08 <gantrixx> martincleaver: you are missing the point. you are asking her to do more than she is willing to do to use GNUCash for me.
13:49:47 <gantrixx> I'm lucky she isn't charging me for all the IT time she is putting in
13:49:54 <gantrixx> oh well, it was just a question guys
13:50:00 <gantrixx> thanks for listening
13:50:03 <gantrixx> I have to go
13:50:32 <martincleaver> you are welcome
13:50:44 * martincleaver has never used GNUCash
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15:39:01 <oneseventeen> how should I set up my accounts to track payroll deductions for myself and my wife?
15:39:36 <oneseventeen> I'd think expense accounts for insurance, deductions, and tax
15:41:41 * martincleaver only installed GNUcash today
15:42:57 <oneseventeen> martincleaver: have you ever used a general ledger before?
15:43:27 <martincleaver> not explicitly. QuickBooks gives me a GL view but I avoid it
15:43:28 <oneseventeen> if so, GNUcash should be pretty comfortable
15:43:42 <martincleaver> y, I think I'd get it
15:43:49 <oneseventeen> I'm not an accountant or anything close to it, but I love keeping track of stuff
15:44:06 <martincleaver> there's a bit of a question as to whether to do things on a webapp instead
15:44:33 <oneseventeen> The only reason I like a non-webapp is speed and shortcut keys
15:44:56 <martincleaver> web apps are getting better
15:45:05 <oneseventeen> It is fairly easy to use the keyboard to split one receipt into multiple expense accounts
15:45:15 <oneseventeen> yeah, they are.
15:45:24 <oneseventeen> What web apps are you looking at?
15:45:32 <oneseventeen> (I hadn't thought of using a webapp myself)
15:46:03 <martincleaver> presently reading http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/03/27/ask-the-readers-how-do-you-manage-your-money/
15:48:12 <oneseventeen> cool, I'll browse through those comments, looks like an interesting blog overall
15:48:38 <oneseventeen> We just switched to a tight budget to plan for a family, and I definitely want to stay on top of things
15:48:47 <martincleaver> The comments say a lot of positive things about GNUcash
15:48:57 <oneseventeen> I used GNUcash for over 2 years for simple ledger work and loved it
15:49:08 <oneseventeen> (over 1 year, I forgot I was quicken the first year)
15:49:20 <oneseventeen> I actually migrated *from* quicken to gnucash, and still prefer gnucash
15:49:28 * martincleaver nods
15:49:41 <oneseventeen> but I think it is more because the interface works better for me. (Quicken's interface works much better for my parents though)
16:10:07 <martincleaver> "Now I use GnuCash. The double-entry system takes some getting used to, but once you do, you will wonder how you ever did without it. If you don’t track every penny, you’ll know quickly. The best feature is the price - free.
16:10:08 <martincleaver> GnuCash was designed primarily for Linux, but will work on a Mac as an X11 app. (Install via Fink. The MacPorts version is broken, at least on Leopard) There is a Windows version available too."
16:10:24 <martincleaver> seems to work via Macports for me
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16:24:02 <oneseventeen> Hmmm... now the tough decision: 403B deductions an expense, or Asset?
16:24:38 <oneseventeen> I don't really want to consider 403B as part of my assets on normal reports
16:24:40 * martincleaver lives in Canada so has no idea what a 403B is
16:24:48 <oneseventeen> 403B = Retirement account
16:25:02 <martincleaver> ta
16:25:15 <martincleaver> I'd have thought it an asset, but
16:25:20 * martincleaver shrugs
16:25:30 <oneseventeen> I can't withdraw from it until I meet certain requirements (age/health/etc)
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16:25:41 <oneseventeen> Maybe there is a way to hide it from reports
16:25:57 * martincleaver nods
16:27:10 <oneseventeen> listing it as an Asset, then I'll worry about reporting later
16:27:21 <oneseventeen> it would be much harder to transfer all transactions from an expense to it later anyway
16:27:24 <martincleaver> :)
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16:33:31 * oneseventeen wonders if he wants to be paranoid and put this all in a TrueCrypt volume
16:33:49 <oneseventeen> maybe later.... no account numbers anyway
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17:12:07 <Cyorxamp> Does anyone know what kind of account I should pick from the wizard - for one where I just track what I've spent thus far? i.e. no money comes in - just out
17:26:41 <oneseventeen> Cyorxamp: I believe GNUcash is primarily a double-entry system, so it has to come from somewhere and go somewhere
17:27:04 <oneseventeen> so even if you just track what you spend, you'd be going from "Checking" to "Groceries"
17:27:04 <Cyorxamp> oneseventeen: It's ok i'm using an 'expense' type account
17:27:21 <oneseventeen> cool
17:27:24 <Cyorxamp> just wish I could hide the 'Transfer' column and other columns
17:27:35 <oneseventeen> does anyone know why I keep getting blank entries in the General Ledger? (Windows version)
17:32:37 <oneseventeen> Also, is there a way to type in account codes in the Account column of the GL?
17:33:08 <oneseventeen> (so instead of "Assets:Current Assets:Bank of America:Checking" just type "[BOAC]"
17:49:44 <jsled> Cyorxamp: Why would you want to hide the transfer column? Even if you're 99% just tracking Expenses, you still want to know *which* Expense account you used...
17:50:19 <Cyorxamp> All it keeps saying is "Imbalance-GBP"
17:50:20 <jsled> oneseventeen: Not exactly, but the completion should work … A:C:B:C<tab>
17:50:27 <Cyorxamp> i've no idea what that means and don't need to know!
17:50:42 <jsled> Cyorxamp: you do need to know. what register/view do you have open?
17:50:53 <Cyorxamp> basically for this account, I'm just using it for a glorified adding machine
17:51:12 <Cyorxamp> eh!?
17:51:32 <jsled> You're looking at a checkbook-like register, right? For which account?
17:51:42 <jsled> Assets:Checking? Expenses:Whatever?
17:52:17 <Cyorxamp> I've no idea what you mean
17:52:40 <jsled> Which account in the account tree did you double-click on?
17:52:40 <Cyorxamp> I started using gnucash like 5 mins ago and it's doing everything I need to - just want to hide that column
17:53:39 <oneseventeen> @jsled: thanks thats what I've been doing, just didn't know if there was a code method
17:53:39 <gncbot> oneseventeen: Error: "jsled:" is not a valid command.
17:53:49 <jsled> Cyorxamp: if you really want to mis-use the software, I can't stop you ... but you should really read http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/txns-concepts1.html
17:54:12 <jsled> oneseventeen: there's not; there are existing RFEs asking for similar (and different) behavior.
17:54:19 <Cyorxamp> look I just want to use it to track expenses! I don't want to put my real account information in there
17:54:33 <Cyorxamp> my bank won't auto link with the software so it'd mean importing crap all the time
17:54:44 <Cyorxamp> so I'm just using it to track expenses on this one subject!
17:54:52 <oneseventeen> Cyorxamp: I think what he means is that this is a general ledger, which requires transactions
17:55:07 <jsled> Cyorxamp: Well, you can use it to simply track expenses *and* do it in the way gnucash "works", but you just need to do things a *little* bit differently.
17:55:23 <jsled> Cyorxamp: if you really just want a glorifed adding machine for a single list of stuff, then use a spreadsheet.
17:55:26 <Cyorxamp> little by... i.e. having another account where the money comes from?
17:55:26 <oneseventeen> I know many people who use excel to just keep a column of expenses
17:56:00 <jsled> Right. Basically having an Assets account, and making Assets -> Expenses transactions.
17:56:14 <Cyorxamp> I don't WANT to track any assets
17:56:24 <jsled> (With maybe a one time Equity -> Assets transaction to "populate" funds into the Assets account.
17:56:25 <jsled> )
17:56:30 <Cyorxamp> is there or is there not a way to hide this column?
17:56:34 <Cyorxamp> simple yes or no please
17:57:16 <jsled> Cyorxamp: wow, I don't know why you're being frustrated about this. No, there's no way to hide that column; Double-Entry is *integral* to gnucash.
17:57:16 <oneseventeen> Cyorxamp: I'm not sure but I'd doubt it. The transaction column in a ledger is equally as important as the Expense and Date columns
17:57:33 <Cyorxamp> ok
17:57:42 <oneseventeen> I think this is a case of a flathead screwdriver being frustraing to use on a phillips screw
17:57:48 <jsled> The whole point is that it's a double-entry accounting system.
17:57:54 <oneseventeen> it *can* do the job, but it would be very frustrating
17:58:08 <oneseventeen> so it will be more work to *not* track information than it would with gnucash
17:58:25 <oneseventeen> Excel or OpenOffice Calc would do the job well though
17:58:44 <Cyorxamp> Look... I've asked my bank if they'll set up a HBCI server and they say... No
17:58:56 <Cyorxamp> If they did have one I'd be using GNUCash for all my finance management
17:59:15 <jsled> Are you in Germany?
17:59:18 <Cyorxamp> But they don't... so I can't be bothered manually imputting data all the time or importing the downloads of thier web site
17:59:19 <Cyorxamp> No the UK
17:59:32 <oneseventeen> I switched from quicken to gnucash because I hated automatic entry
17:59:35 <jsled> I believe HBCI is DE-only anyways, but I could be wrong.
17:59:37 <Cyorxamp> From what I can see HBCI is only taken seriously by german banks
17:59:44 <oneseventeen> (it was always entering things in twice or not counting bill payments, etc)
18:00:34 <Cyorxamp> essentially its a non profit org than I'm managing here... mostly funded by me
18:00:55 <Cyorxamp> but I'm not gonna make an entry before every single other entry to say 'Donated by blob' for oh look - exactly the same amount
18:01:04 <Cyorxamp> so its just expense tracking
18:01:41 <jsled> Cyorxamp: note that even though it's double-entry, you don't need to make two entries, just one.
18:02:06 <Cyorxamp> well it transfers from 'Imbalance-GBP' which is just fine!
18:02:11 <Cyorxamp> I just don't care enough to see the column!
18:02:16 <jsled> In fact, it'd be the same one you're making now … but instead of it being Expenses -> Imbalance it'd be Assets -> Expenses.
18:02:20 * jsled shrugs
18:03:49 <Cyorxamp> ooh I can make the column 0 width :D
18:03:50 <Cyorxamp> woo
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18:38:12 <oneseventeen> any tips on setting up initial balances?
18:38:28 <oneseventeen> things never seem to add up properly when basing off of an online statement
18:38:44 * oneseventeen assumes he might have to just go a week without making any purchases to balance things out
18:39:43 <warlord> oneseventeen: If you have outstanding stuff then pick a "reasonable" date before those outstanding txns, make that your starting balance date, and then include the outstanding ones.
18:40:27 <oneseventeen> warlord: yeah, that's what I did, and for some reason it is still about $75 off
18:40:51 <warlord> Then you're missing a transaction or miscalculated the balance.. or entered something in incorrectly.
18:41:23 <oneseventeen> I'm basing everything off the "Ending Balance as of 08/01/08"
18:41:52 <oneseventeen> so I'm wondering if there are some receipts I put in for 08/01 that the bank may not have accounted for yet
18:42:02 <warlord> Right.
18:42:34 <oneseventeen> hmm, also just realized I need to put a couple more items in...
18:44:11 <warlord> :)
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19:01:22 <aaron> hey all, trying to get aqbanking to connect to my wachovia account, comes back that the software version isn't supported. Found a work-around in ubuntu forums about downloading the source and diff patch, changing the appid value, and recompiling, however can't find the source. anyone know if there's a fedora package with the latest appid and appversion or where i can get the libofx source code?
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19:22:47 <oneseventeen> OK, 40 minutes later after re-reading the receipts, discovering some weren't mine, and some entries on the web account were wrong,
19:23:23 <oneseventeen> we finally have a cent-for-cent account between my GNUcash file and online bank "available balance"
19:23:26 <oneseventeen> sweet!
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19:54:54 <oneseventeen> Any tips on printing invoices in Windows
19:55:05 <oneseventeen> I've got the upside down and backwards error, even when I print to PDF Creator
19:58:25 <cort> disable your printer's special funcionality
19:58:36 <cort> i can't remember the exact name of the option, but it's in the printer's properties IIRC
19:58:52 <cort> however your printer drivers may enable it again automatically so it might be impossible to actually do
20:02:32 <oneseventeen> I just changed the defaults in the driver and it still prints upside down and backwards
20:02:49 <oneseventeen> oh well, I'll just make a google doc with the info in it
20:03:48 <oneseventeen> weird, it let me change it to disabled earlier,
20:03:55 <oneseventeen> but now that I go back, it is on "Enabled" and greyed out
20:04:27 <oneseventeen> cort: thanks for the tips anyway. GNUcash still does more than I need, so printing invoices in Windows isn't a big deal
20:04:49 <cort> my workaround was to export reports as html and print from there :(
20:10:46 <oneseventeen> cort: sweet! great idea!
20:13:00 <oneseventeen> I can't believe it is this easy to set up invoices...
20:14:08 <oneseventeen> so if I receive a check from my customer, do I just go to Process Payment, plug in the invoice, and have it do everything else for me?
20:15:48 * oneseventeen just read the manual on invoices and processing payments... definitely looks awesome
20:16:10 <oneseventeen> either these are fairly new features (within the past few years) or I totally missed a big chunk of GNUcash when I used to use it.
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23:47:31 <chip> Hello - I am trying to ditch windows for linux & the only thing that is keeping me from totally leaving it behind is MS Money, which I am running in a VM. I'd like to switch to gnucash but I have several years of history in Money, including some old accounts that have been closed. Does anybody have any advice? I've read some things about exporting to QIF format, but I'm concerned about...
23:47:33 <chip> ...all of the different categories etc... Thanks!