2008-07-17 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:38:25 <jsled> [[[
01:38:25 <jsled> [<sarcasm>]
01:38:25 <jsled> We software developers, understanding the software as we do, find it easy to look down upon those who lack our understanding.
01:38:25 <jsled> [</sarcasm>]
01:38:25 <jsled> This is wrong.
01:38:27 <jsled> Users aren’t dumb. They just have better things to do with their lives than memorizing the internal data model of our screwy software.
01:38:30 <jsled> When software is hard to use, don’t make excuses for it. Improve it.
01:38:32 <jsled> When a user makes a mistake, don’t blame the user. Ask how the software misled them. Then fix it.
01:38:36 <jsled> The user’s time is more valuable than ours. Respect it.
01:38:38 <jsled> Good UI design is humble.
01:38:40 <jsled> ]]] - http://jonoscript.wordpress.com/2008/07/17/these-things-i-believe/
01:39:02 <jsled> [[[
01:39:02 <jsled> It is easy to fool people into buying something that is against their own best interest.
01:39:02 <jsled> Don't do that.
01:39:02 <jsled> ]]] - ibid.
01:39:47 <warlord> Look at how many people buy windows!
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09:24:19 <merc> I don't suppose an accountant is around?
09:24:50 <merc> I can't crack this. My company suddenly owes 10,000 to somebody. I want that debt to figure in the books, but I am not suree how to organise it
09:26:01 <StocksR> (not an accountant but) - how did the debt come about as that will affect how to file it.
09:27:09 <StocksR> I would guess you need a liability account for the person you own and a transfer from an expense account to that liability account
09:27:21 <StocksR> of 10,000
09:29:10 <merc> OK. Trying that now
09:29:15 <merc> You going to hang around for 4 minutes?
09:29:23 <merc> I have been going insane on this for the last 48 hours
09:29:42 <StocksR> I am here till 5pm uk time
09:31:16 <merc> I'm Tony Mobily from Free Software Magazine BTW. We moved all of our books to GNUCash.
09:31:21 <merc> Gonna write about it
09:31:30 <merc> The debt came around because I bought my business partner out
09:31:38 <merc> So the company suddenly had a $28000 debt
09:31:43 <merc> 14000 is already paid
09:31:54 <merc> Does that make sense?
09:32:42 <StocksR> Yes
09:33:29 <merc> So I created a liability account for the person. Now I need to add the transaction. And I stall here. Whick account should the money "come" from?
09:33:39 <merc> The "transfer" field, that is
09:33:56 <StocksR> where is the 28,000 to pay him coming from
09:34:09 <merc> The checking account
09:34:16 <StocksR> from you or from the business
09:34:18 <merc> 14000 is already paid. But I put it in "general expenses"
09:34:21 <merc> From the business
09:34:48 <merc> It doesn't make much sense to put it in "general expenses"... I would like to have that number fo figure out as a debt somewheree in the books
09:35:16 <merc> Thing is, the money didn't "come" from anywhere. It's just a debt that magically appeared
09:35:32 <StocksR> DISCLAMER - NOT AN ACCOUNTANT - I would guess that the company is buying shares in it's self
09:35:49 <StocksR> prehaps this should be an equity account
09:38:02 <merc> The trouble is, when I pay from the bank account into equity, there is a +/- problem because the money exits the account, and ends up ADDING to the equity debt
09:38:36 <StocksR> the bank account transfer goes to the liability account (you are paying off the liability)
09:39:17 <merc> But this means that equity will *always* have something like -28000 ... is that correct?
09:39:53 <merc> Plus, if I create Liabilities:Debts, is it OK to use that "Debts" account both to put money in, AND out?
09:40:00 <merc> Formally, that is
09:40:00 <StocksR> yes
09:40:08 <merc> Yes to which one? :-D
09:40:09 <StocksR> DISCLAMER - NOT AN ACCOUNTANT
09:40:14 <merc> I was impatient, I asked two questions
09:40:25 <merc> That's OK, I will ask my accountant in 2011 when I catch him...
09:41:10 <StocksR> The liability account balance shows your current liabilities
09:41:15 <merc> OK
09:41:20 <StocksR> so yes money in and out is expected
09:41:34 <merc> In this case, though, I am getting liabilities to come out of equity
09:42:12 <StocksR> I guess so.
09:45:19 <StocksR> so to recap
09:45:20 <StocksR> first you trasfer 28,000 from (equity:Shareholder Assets) to Liabilies:ExPartnersName
09:46:00 <StocksR> then you make a payment against that debt 14,000 from bank account to Liabilitys:ExPartner
09:46:38 <StocksR> the balance in Liabilites: ExPartner should show that you still own - 10,000
09:46:51 <merc> I called it Equity:debts... is it better to call it Shareholder Assets?
09:47:24 <StocksR> Presumably you have other equity accounts?
09:47:43 <merc> Just "Opening balances"
09:47:52 <merc> Because the company started taking over from a previous one
09:49:05 <StocksR> Prehaps you could use opening balances for the 28,00 ( to liability)
09:50:16 <StocksR> in english that would read as " The company started the finiacial period as owning 28,000 to ExPartner"
09:50:39 <merc> Hummm not really though, because the debt only came by in December
09:50:48 <merc> 6 months after the company started
09:53:00 <StocksR> So you have not closed the books on the first period yet, so you dont have an Equity:Retained Earnings account
09:53:07 <merc> Not yet
09:53:12 <merc> I am actually *creating* the books right now
09:53:16 <merc> I am basically finished
09:53:30 <merc> I need to close them twice, once in July 2007 and once in July 2008
09:53:59 <merc> Before now, it was a silly Gnumeric spreadsheet, which was absurd
09:54:13 <merc> I spent the last god knows how many hours getting this thing to balance -- and it does, finally
09:54:38 <merc> Ugh the company still owes 20000
09:54:40 <merc> Oh well
09:55:18 <merc> I guess I don't understand the concept of equity very well
09:55:22 <merc> Do you have a link for me to "get it"?
09:57:22 <StocksR> you may have to account for the initial investments you both made in the business
09:58:19 <merc> OK. The investment was mainly mine. He agreed on a particular number, and that was it.
09:58:31 <merc> But yeah, I di have debts "to start with"
10:01:25 <merc> I made a copy of the investment, and closed the books for 2007 and 2008. The account "Debts in equity" still has -28000
10:01:32 <merc> But equity now has -14000
10:03:13 <merc> Closing the books only creates entries into "Equity"... right?
10:03:23 <StocksR> Should do
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10:05:00 <hardcorelamer> if one wanted to make gnucash compatible with a web shopping cart, would that person make a gnucash plugin? design a compatible export file from the site? or make a 3rd party tool that exported from the shopping cart and wrote direct gnucash XML?
10:07:01 <StocksR> I would choose the "export file" option myself, as gnucash imports standard formats, you are not tying the shopping cart system to GnuCash, by folowing that route.
10:07:36 <jsled> hardcorelamer: "compatible" how? What do you want to do?
10:08:20 <hardcorelamer> jsled, I wish I knew
10:09:00 <hardcorelamer> trying to help other people connect gnucash and magento... but I only use gnucash, I don't sell anything on the web
10:09:43 <jsled> Well, manipulating the gnucash XML is certainly possible, but we won't really want to support you. :)
10:09:47 <hardcorelamer> I would assume that the compatibility should be able to insert new orders, insert new customers, trigger some sort of http "ping" when an order is processed
10:10:00 <jsled> Creating QIF or OFX and using the import tools is a good idea, but it's a bit uni-directional.
10:10:30 <jsled> Writing a plugin is harder than it Ideally Should Be, but then you can do anything "safely" via API.
10:10:37 <hardcorelamer> that might be a good start... but I never really had much luck importing qif from my bank
10:11:06 <hardcorelamer> are there any scripting languages? I thought gnucash was written mostly in guile, but then I saw a bunch of c apis on the web
10:12:35 <jsled> No, it's mostly C, with a bit of guile.
10:13:04 <hardcorelamer> there's no way to write a plugin in guile?
10:13:06 <jsled> We use SWIG to generate the bindings, and there's python bindings in trunk (I think).
10:13:12 <hardcorelamer> ooh
10:13:24 <hardcorelamer> I was just gonna ask that
10:16:57 <hardcorelamer> is there anyawy to get the accounts dialog to just default to doing a listing , instead of having to select "company name" then type "a" or whatever, in there
10:17:17 <hardcorelamer> I'd rather scroll through 30-40 accounts than have to "search" just to see anything
10:17:44 <hardcorelamer> I tried to hack up my own instance, but couldn't figure out where anything was doing anything else
10:18:35 <jsled> It'd require a code change. I don't think anyone's done it, yet. It's a common complaint.
10:18:58 <hardcorelamer> yes, for like 5 years now
10:38:50 <merc> Quick question. Is there a way to view all the bills, and moree important to DELETE a bill? I created a couple of test ones, and I am stuck with them. How do I browse/delete bills?
10:43:31 <merc> No way to do it?
10:51:51 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
10:51:59 <warlord> merc: no way to delete.. Just re-use them
10:52:14 <warlord> merc: as for seeing all, search for "matches regex" "."
10:53:44 <merc> warlord: ugh OK.
10:53:57 <merc> And is there an easy way to re-close the books?
10:54:04 <merc> I closed them, but I changed a couple of things
10:54:39 <warlord> How did you close them?
10:55:00 <merc> I just delete the entries in "Equity"? (I did Tools->Close book")
10:56:10 <warlord> There are two ways to re-close the books. 1) delete the two transactions in Equity and re-run the Tools->Close Book, or 2) Just re-run Tools->Close Book with the same date.
10:57:03 <merc> OK fantastic
10:57:12 <merc> I think I am getting the hang of this program
10:57:16 <merc> Is it still in active development?
10:57:30 <warlord> define "active"? Yes, it is still being developed.
10:57:36 <warlord> Have you read the GnuCash Documentation?
10:57:44 <warlord> The Tutorial and Concepts Guide is REALLY good.
11:01:30 <merc> Warlord, quick question for you
11:01:42 <merc> Just for a second opinion
11:01:59 <warlord> your Equity/Liability question?
11:02:10 <merc> Ah yeah
11:02:13 <merc> You weree here?
11:02:46 <warlord> No, I was asleep. But I read the logs when I woke up and picked up my laptop.
11:02:47 <merc> I added a Liability:OldPartnerDebts account, and added a liability taking it from an Equity:Debts account. Is that how you'd do it?
11:02:57 <warlord> Yep
11:03:04 <merc> My company suddenly has a 28000 debt
11:03:09 <warlord> Yep.
11:03:21 <warlord> Which is what you said happened.
11:03:28 <merc> But this means that I will always have like -28000 in the "Equity" account
11:03:35 <merc> (it is what happened)
11:03:40 <warlord> Yep.
11:03:48 <merc> When I close the books, actually, that goes down to whatever I've paid
11:03:56 <warlord> Yep
11:03:58 <merc> So GNUCash is doing the right thing... and by the next fiscal year that will go?
11:04:22 <warlord> Assuming you pay it off by the next fiscal year...
11:04:29 <merc> Yeah
11:04:36 <merc> Well I am hoping to have it all paid off by november
11:04:36 <merc> :-D
11:04:39 <warlord> The Balance Sheet will also list it as an item, but it's really the total that matters.
11:05:08 <merc> How do I get the "net value" of the whole thing?
11:05:12 <merc> Is there a way to have it?
11:05:23 <warlord> Net Value of the company?
11:05:29 <merc> Yeah
11:05:35 <warlord> Run a Balance Sheet.
11:05:52 <warlord> That will compute your Assets and Liabilities and give you Net Total.
11:09:08 <merc> Hummm where abouts?
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11:10:08 <warlord> Reports -> A & L ->
11:10:28 <merc> Yeah I can't find the net worth
11:10:37 <merc> Actually I think it's a bug
11:11:07 <merc> Total liabilities & Equity is giving the same number as "Total assets"
11:13:59 <warlord> Yes, that's a GOOD thing.
11:14:22 <warlord> E = A + L
11:14:41 <warlord> Er.. Sorry, E = A - L
11:14:50 <warlord> so A = E + L
11:15:16 <warlord> Your total Equity (not E + L) is your "Net Worth"
11:16:03 <merc> Cool. The company is worth -20000 :-D
11:16:26 <warlord> Well, you took on 28k in debt so that's not too surprising. ;)
11:16:50 <merc> :-D
11:17:52 <merc> It's funny, because the "Equity" section has "Debts in equity" (-45720) , "Opening balance" (6319) and "Retained Earnings" (0) but the total is -19000. That is, it doesn't "add up"
11:20:59 <merc> Is it meant to add up?
11:22:47 <warlord> Really? It adds up for me.
11:25:57 <warlord> (on my balance sheet)
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11:52:59 <warlord> BIAB
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