2008-07-04 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:29:33 <Rolf> Hi there
05:30:05 <Rolf> Does cvs.gnucash.org try to do clever tricks with "ICMP 'host unreachable'" to block ports?
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07:29:05 <Rolf> rkirti: Where you the guy asking about OE yesterday?
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07:29:50 <refdoc> Hi
07:30:22 <refdoc> I got into a mess with my backups and need to figure something out becfore I make it worse
07:30:52 <refdoc> Looking into my accounts folder there are two main kind of files - *xac and *log
07:31:02 <refdoc> the log is clear
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07:31:12 <refdoc> The xac is not
07:32:06 <refdoc> My question - is the latests .xac my complete accounts with all transactions or is the complete collection of all .xacs the sum of all transactions etc
07:33:23 <Rolf> Dunno
07:33:34 <Rolf> Before you do anything else create a tar/zip of all files
07:33:44 <refdoc> done
07:41:46 <refdoc> Anyone else?
07:48:54 <Rolf> Wait two or three hours
07:49:05 <Rolf> better chance then
07:49:12 <refdoc> Thanks a lot Rolf!
07:50:12 <Rolf> not to mention
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08:01:14 <rkirti> Rolf : yes ,I was the gal asking abt OE yesterday
08:01:49 <Rolf> I am heavily involved in OE
08:01:59 <Rolf> and I had been thinking about this, too
08:02:04 <Rolf> I even started a recipe
08:02:39 <Rolf> But I have come to the conclusion that gnucash will not run on an embedded device unless there is a major gui rewrite with that in mind
08:02:53 <Rolf> I have opened a bug about it and andi did some work
08:03:04 <Rolf> But I am not sure, it is ready for small screen
08:04:12 <rkirti> Rolf: interesting indeed
08:04:26 <rkirti> Rolf : can we talk abt this sometime later ?
08:05:20 <rkirti> Rolf : i wud want to know more on this but i m supposed to be working on somthin else now :(
08:07:06 <Rolf> well, you can try to convince me that gnucash on an embedded device is possible
08:07:22 <Rolf> I have put that on the back-burner
08:07:31 <Rolf> I have more pressing gnucash issues
08:07:43 <Rolf> I am of course open for discussion
08:08:42 <rkirti> Rolf : sure sir..I m a newbie to OE so even I would want to get my facts clear b4 I start off with this
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08:26:49 <Matthew_Murdock> is there a way to install gnucash on slackware 12.1, but not to install gnome?
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09:33:22 <Matthew_Murdock> gone...
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09:54:35 <warlord> Rolf: yes..
09:54:59 <Rolf> well, it shouldn't do that
09:55:05 <Rolf> at least that is what I was told
09:55:35 <warlord> refdoc: this is a faq. .xac are backup files. So if you see a <foo>.YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.xac (or .log) your data file is named <foo>
09:56:32 <refdoc> ok. So every single xac file can stand on its own - up to the date it was created?
09:57:13 <Rolf> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/04/%23bzr.txt
09:57:15 <Rolf> 10:27
09:57:35 <warlord> Rolf: what do you mean, "shoudn't do that?"
09:57:49 <warlord> it's the way iptables blocks attacking IPs.
09:58:09 <Rolf> I was told that host unavailable could be replaced with port unavailable
09:58:14 <Rolf> I don't know more
09:58:28 <Rolf> Have you read the chat log?
09:58:37 <Rolf> Focus on 10:27
09:59:33 <warlord> Oh, I guess I do --reject-with icmp-host-prohibited
09:59:51 <warlord> I suppose I could change that.. But why do you care?
10:00:25 <Rolf> I want to import the svn branch into bzr
10:00:37 <Rolf> for better integration with ubuntu tools
10:00:45 <Rolf> to ease packaging of the latest hbci branch
10:00:48 <Rolf> to ease merging
10:00:55 <Rolf> to have local branches
10:00:55 <warlord> Yeah? So?
10:01:11 <Rolf> Just a minute
10:01:54 <Rolf> if you have the time, read from 10:08
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10:02:12 <Rolf> bzr-svn currently chokes on the gnucash svn repo
10:02:13 <warlord> I already closed the log.
10:02:23 <Rolf> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/04/%23bzr.txt
10:02:37 <Rolf> the log from #bzr
10:02:38 <warlord> If it chokes that means that someone tried to ssh to the server with an invalid user name.
10:02:47 <warlord> This is not a bug.
10:02:55 <Rolf> let me see
10:02:57 <warlord> This is a feature.
10:03:16 <Rolf> no
10:03:17 <Rolf> 10:20
10:03:28 <Rolf> plain check out
10:03:31 <Rolf> not svn+ssh
10:03:36 <Rolf> it failed
10:04:03 <warlord> That would only fail IF someone tried to ssh from that IP Address earlier.
10:04:47 <Rolf> [10:27] <ToyKeeper> The ICMP 'host unreachable' response may be a neat trick, but it's not supposed to be used for port blocking.
10:04:58 <Rolf> [10:27] <ToyKeeper> Tell the admin to drop unwanted packets instead of returning a host-unreachable error.
10:05:03 <Rolf> I am just relaying the info
10:05:09 <Rolf> I cannot validate it
10:05:17 <Rolf> [10:29] <ToyKeeper> A 'port unreachable' response works too, and should be the default behavior from iptables REJECT (but many prefer DROP, which is fine).
10:05:48 <warlord> Why would that matter in this case?
10:06:25 <warlord> (and honestly, I dont want to do that. I want to tell attackers to go away.)
10:06:42 <warlord> I'm not doing it for port blocking.
10:06:52 <warlord> I'm doing HOST blocking...
10:06:59 <warlord> (I block EVERY port)
10:08:20 <Rolf> You'd have to talk to the guy
10:08:31 <Rolf> It's your computer
10:08:46 <Rolf> If you think that is the behaviour it should exhibit, that is it
10:08:52 <Rolf> Again, I was just relaying
10:09:03 <Rolf> I cannot validate the claim of "should work differently"
10:09:26 <warlord> Basically, the server would only get into this state if it was previously attacked from that IP Address.
10:10:02 <warlord> If they are having problems connecting let me know the IP Address and I'll look in the logs and tell you when they tried to ssh-attack the host.
10:11:04 <Rolf> http://rafb.net/p/ig6EvE25.html
10:11:14 <Rolf> That is *me* just about five minutes ago
10:12:05 <warlord> I'll note that in germany people get random IPs all the time, so it's possible that it was someone else who had the address previously.
10:12:11 <warlord> Umm.. I dont see a failure there..
10:12:26 <warlord> Certainly not a network failure.
10:12:46 <Rolf> my IP is pretty stable
10:12:52 <Rolf> well, forget that
10:12:56 <Rolf> while it is true
10:13:05 <Rolf> I was connecting from a remote computer
10:13:21 <Rolf> how long do you block?
10:13:25 <warlord> Forever.
10:13:38 <warlord> (until someone asks to get unblocked)
10:13:40 <Rolf> Are you nuts?
10:13:48 <Rolf> I guess then I must be blocked, too
10:13:59 <Rolf> With this trying out tools
10:14:11 <Rolf> I may have well run afoul of your policies
10:14:23 <warlord> What's your IP Address?
10:14:29 <Rolf> Attackers will likely not use the same ip all the time
10:14:32 <warlord> No, I'm not nuts. I take ssh attacks hard.
10:15:07 <warlord> Actually, amusingly they do.
10:15:50 <warlord> sometimes I'll get thousands of ssh login attempts from the same host!
10:16:07 <Rolf> well, in any case, there was no ssh involved in my latest problem
10:16:20 <warlord> If there's no ssh involved then my host isn't blocking you.
10:16:29 <warlord> give me your ip address and I'll go look.
10:17:58 <Rolf> one of them is 87.78.214.130
10:18:09 <Rolf> But it could be a different IP from this morning
10:18:44 <warlord> That IP is not blocked.
10:19:29 <warlord> However:
10:19:31 <warlord> Jul 4 05:58:58 cvs sshd[7843]: Invalid user laibsch from 87.78.217.77
10:19:31 <warlord> Jul 4 05:58:58 cvs sshd[7844]: input_userauth_request: invalid user laibsch
10:19:31 <warlord> Jul 4 05:58:58 cvs sshd[7844]: Connection closed by 87.78.217.77
10:19:46 <warlord> That's a blocking event.
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10:21:37 <Rolf> hehe, that was me
10:23:21 <warlord> Right, that's considered an ssh attack.
10:23:28 <warlord> So yes, it got blocked.
10:28:04 <warlord> The host-unreachable vs. port unreachable is a red herring and COMPLETELY irrelevant.
10:28:34 <warlord> Because I'm not blocking individual ports. Once you're on the block list you're blocked from EVERY port.. So yes, host-unreachable *IS* the right response.
10:29:49 <warlord> I'm happy to go there and respond myself if you want.
10:31:33 <warlord> Rolf: are you laibsch?
10:31:45 <Rolf> yes
10:32:40 <Rolf> are devs using other vcs on top of svn? is there consideration to move away from svn?
10:32:40 <warlord> I suspect what happened was that when you used svn:// it used you SVN configuration to connect via ssh using your local username (which I bet is laibsch)... But that's not your gnucash login username... So you got blocked.
10:32:47 <Rolf> There are shiny new tools out there
10:32:57 <warlord> I use svk. Some others use git-svn.
10:32:59 <Rolf> And I saw that gnucash has a lot of active branches now
10:33:06 <warlord> There's no interest in moving away from svn per se.
10:33:13 <Rolf> yes, I have a git-svn check-out, too
10:33:20 <warlord> I don't consider a half-dozen to be "a lot"
10:33:33 <Rolf> well, I am interested in three
10:33:55 <Rolf> I'd like to see them converge again so I can have all their features
10:34:09 <Rolf> git or bzr will support the merge better, I suppose
10:34:25 <Rolf> topic branches or an awesome thing for developmnet
10:34:53 <warlord> exactly. And once the feature is complete it'll get merged back into trunk.
10:35:32 <Rolf> yes
10:35:49 <Rolf> The way I understand it, svn is not so good with supporting the merge back
10:36:02 <Rolf> Once it's done, it's no problem
10:36:14 <Rolf> But AFAIK the merging algo is sub-par
10:36:16 <warlord> svn 1.6 should be much better with it.
10:36:19 <Rolf> But I might be mistaken
10:36:22 <Rolf> OK
10:36:40 <warlord> the real issue is that svn itself doesn't keep track of merges.
10:36:46 * Rolf would like to see a gda-dev+aqbanking3 branch
10:37:34 <warlord> You'd have to do that yourself.
10:37:45 <warlord> Or... get one branch completed and merged into trunk.
10:37:52 <Rolf> yes, I know
10:37:59 <Rolf> I am working on getting that done
10:38:06 <Rolf> I won't be able to do that by myself
10:38:15 <Rolf> But I am working on it with the means available to me
10:38:23 <warlord> * nods *
10:38:38 <Rolf> My hope is that aqbanking can be merged back soon
10:38:46 <warlord> that would be nice.
10:39:00 <Rolf> I tried it and it worked without a hitch
10:39:17 <Rolf> I want to prepare some packages from the aqbanking branch so it can get wider testing
10:39:28 <warlord> talk to andi about it.
10:39:35 <Rolf> He's busy
10:39:45 <Rolf> and getting the package out is something I can do by myself
10:39:59 <refdoc> sorry, to barge in again - did I understand this right? is any xac file a complete set of the data up to that point in time?
10:40:00 <Rolf> We can coordinate from there
10:40:21 * Rolf is interested in refdoc's question as well
10:41:28 <warlord> refdoc: yes
10:41:51 <refdoc> thanks!
10:42:22 <warlord> See the fa
10:42:23 <warlord> faq
10:48:08 <Rolf> warlord: do you have an idea about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=538913 ß
10:48:10 <Rolf> ?
10:48:38 <Rolf> Should we wait for gnucash/SQL?
10:48:39 <Rolf> sed?
10:48:52 <Rolf> small "patch account trees"?
10:49:48 <Rolf> Can you think of a good xml-manipulation tool like I can think of one for SQL?
10:52:11 <warlord> Ummm.. nope.
10:52:58 <warlord> Can't think of anything.
10:53:09 <warlord> Gnucash currently isn't designed to do that
10:53:31 <Rolf> What happens if an account tree to be added has the same account as already present?
10:53:48 <Rolf> Couldn't that be (ab)used to update rudimentarily?
10:53:59 <warlord> It could add..
10:54:19 <warlord> .. but not remove.
10:55:05 <warlord> If the same account is in both then it SHOULD be treated as the same.
10:56:09 <Rolf> apparently, an already existing account is not overwritten but retained :-(
10:56:50 <warlord> Correct.
10:57:06 <warlord> how would you overwrite it?
10:57:12 <warlord> An account is an account is an account.
10:57:16 <warlord> What are you trying to change?
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11:01:30 <Rolf> well, the german account charts are big
11:01:46 <Rolf> So, it is easily conceivable they still have lots of errors
11:02:26 <Rolf> Plus, when the government decides to implement new rules, sometimes you add but sometimes you also change existing accounts
11:02:49 <Rolf> plus, I am continuing cstim's work of automating tax reports
11:02:59 <Rolf> There is the sales tax report
11:03:08 <Rolf> and the income tax report
11:03:35 <Rolf> income tax report keys are not yet part of the SKR account charts
11:03:40 <Rolf> they should be added later
11:04:20 <Rolf> those are the most important reasons we need to be able to update the chart of accounts
11:04:51 <Rolf> another subject: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541541 is not implemented yet, or is it?
11:05:35 <Rolf> nice bug number ;-)
11:06:36 <warlord> I believe there is a "Hide zero-value accounts" option.
11:07:03 <Rolf> Is there?
11:07:07 <Rolf> That would be awesome
11:07:11 <warlord> Yes...
11:07:32 <warlord> View -> Filter By -> Other
11:07:33 <Rolf> Indeed, there is
11:07:35 <Rolf> in filter
11:07:55 <Rolf> Not 100% the same, since unused accounts and 0-value is not exactly the same
11:08:12 <warlord> True.
11:08:22 <warlord> But it's easier to detect 0-balance.
11:12:40 <warlord> gnucash was just never designed for this -- to update a user's accounts automatically.
11:13:47 <Rolf> yes, understood and appreciated
11:13:59 <Rolf> This is not an absolute killer
11:14:05 <Rolf> but German account trees are big
11:14:12 <Rolf> lots of accounts I will never use
11:14:25 <Rolf> So I was thinking of hiding them by default
11:14:48 <Rolf> fell objected because there is probably only a small set of widely unused accounts
11:15:43 <Rolf> Having to go through the tree and hide 100 or more accounts is no fun when that is the first thing you see of gnucash
11:16:58 <warlord> break the tree up into pieces..
11:17:15 <warlord> have you looked at the en_US set?
11:23:14 <Rolf> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473350
11:27:51 <warlord> right
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11:54:02 <Rolf> warlord: Have you ever heard of xmlstarlet?
11:54:18 <Rolf> I get the feeling this might be the xml manipulation tool I have always been looking for
11:55:15 <warlord> never heard of it
11:56:51 <warlord> Rolf: remind me: where are you?
11:57:31 <Rolf> .de
11:57:34 <Rolf> of course
11:57:59 <Rolf> thus the "interest" in .de accounting
11:59:54 <warlord> Yes, but where in .de
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12:17:07 <Rolf> warlord: you have a personal message
12:21:30 <warlord> indeed i do.
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12:34:19 <caldr> Can somebody tell me the difference between the "Length" text field and the "Months Remaining" text field in the Mortgage/Loan Druid? Also, is it possible to have a part of a month in the "Months Remaining" field?
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12:36:49 <warlord> caldr: length is the original length, months remaining gives it how far along you are.
12:37:07 <warlord> "part of month" makes no sense. "month" really means "instances"
12:38:00 <caldr> What if you have paid off part of a month when paying off principal?
12:38:54 <warlord> like pre-payment of principal?
12:39:01 <caldr> Yes.
12:39:10 <warlord> SXes don't handle that right now.
12:40:10 <caldr> OK, thanks.
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16:14:19 <refdoc> Is there a way to create reports in CSV format? Other than stripping the HTML?
16:16:11 <warlord> nope.
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16:25:27 <refdoc> thanks
16:25:49 <refdoc> Are there ways that I can create reports which will do just this?
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16:42:39 <warlord> ummmmmmmm...
16:43:10 <warlord> I suppose you could write the report to output CSV.. but why? OOo and Excel both import the HTML tables.
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17:02:04 <Sememmon> warlord: Is there a way to see future / projected balances based on scheduled transactions?
17:05:34 <Sememmon> warlord: in a calendar form, I should ask. I've got it in the register...
17:24:09 <Sememmon> Hm think I found a but in the scheduled transactions editor.. after having it add a couple scheduled transactions automatically to the register, the dates it shows on the calendar for future transactions are wrong..
17:24:14 <Sememmon> s/but/bug
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21:07:48 <nbinont> @seen andi5
21:07:48 <gncbot> nbinont: andi5 was last seen in #gnucash 3 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 39 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <andi5> ciao
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