2008-06-03 GnuCash IRC logs

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13:00:25 <fell> Hi, has some webmaster time, to apply https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2008-May/023109.html?
13:10:18 <warlord> fell: I saw the email. I'll try to get to it.
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13:22:55 <foo> wow, that is weird. gnucash invoices appear blank when opened under mac os x.
13:22:56 * foo blinks
13:24:45 <fell> foo, fink or macports?
13:25:27 <foo> fell: hm, what's the default? I don't have a mac ATM, but I was told by someone else. I can get on their mac for testing, just haven't had a chance
13:26:55 <warlord> there is no default
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13:46:13 <foo> ok, then I'll find out and report back
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14:41:39 <lenscape> when do I post and invoice? Before I print it or after?
14:42:07 <warlord> Usually before.. Post/Print.
14:42:18 <lenscape> can I change an invoice once it's posted?
14:42:30 <warlord> no. you have to unpost it.
14:42:40 <lenscape> ah - so it's not a one-way trip?
14:42:57 <lenscape> that's cool. Thanks
14:43:49 <lenscape> I've not seen anywhere I can set the invoice layout. How do I do that?
14:45:23 <warlord> you dont. the layout is hard coded in the report. there are three invoice reports you can run under Reports -> Business
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14:47:08 <lenscape> oh. How do I put logos and stuff on there?
14:47:31 <warlord> edit the stylesheet
14:49:17 <lenscape> ok. Thanks
14:53:09 <lenscape> I thought I'd be able to zip through this as I've set-up accounts before - but it was a while ago.
14:53:30 <lenscape> when I post the invoice, it asks me for an account to post it to. What sort of account is this?
14:58:36 <warlord> The A/R account
15:05:36 <lenscape> warlord: thanks.
15:06:01 <warlord> you're welcome
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15:08:06 <lenscape> when you post then unpost an invoice and then print it - it still comes up as (posted) in the description
15:11:59 <lenscape> help doesn't find the docs even though package gnucash-docs is installed
15:14:05 <fell> lenscape, which distro?
15:14:13 <lenscape> fell: Suse 10.3
15:14:38 <lenscape> fell: can I hook them up somehow?
15:15:11 <warlord> lenscape: there's a bug in Suse's help viewer
15:15:30 <warlord> lenscape: So you post, unpost, THEN run the report?
15:15:57 <lenscape> warlord: yes. I wanted to change something and was curious if I could preview before posting
15:16:24 <warlord> So you post, then unpost, then run Reports -> Business -> Printable Invoice?
15:16:56 <warlord> ... not post, run report, then unpost?
15:18:43 <lenscape> warlord: correct
15:20:23 <lenscape> warlord: after unposting and changing the billing ID - I went to select the invoice to preview it and it showed as 501 (posted) in the search list
15:20:47 <warlord> Oh, in the SEARCH LIST.
15:20:55 <warlord> Did you re-run the search after unposting it?
15:21:00 <lenscape> warlord: yes
15:25:54 <lenscape> anyone know how to hook the help docs up to gnucash? I could do with some info on some of this stuff
15:26:15 <jsled> lenscape: suse has a bug in the help viewer.
15:26:28 <jsled> lenscape: but all those docs are online. http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml
15:26:52 <lenscape> jsled: suse doesn't have a help viewer - as such. It's just the KDE one
15:27:04 <warlord> lenscape: they have a (broken) wrapper script.
15:27:29 <warlord> as for your "posted" issue -- are you sure you unposted the invoice?
15:27:59 <lenscape> warlord: yes. And it still is and the sequence is reproducable
15:28:16 <warlord> what version of gnucash?
15:28:28 <lenscape> 2.2.0
15:29:19 <lenscape> jsled: in what way is the help viewer broken. If I wanted to file a bug report, I'll need to know how it's broken
15:30:38 <warlord> Oh. 2.2.5 is current.
15:30:55 <warlord> lenscape: it's already been fixed by suse. just not in 10.3
15:31:06 <lenscape> warlord: this is the latest I can get from the repos
15:31:25 <warlord> lenscape: then file a bug report with SuSE.
15:31:35 <warlord> 2.2.0 is old and broken
15:31:39 <warlord> 2.2.5 is current
15:31:50 <lenscape> yes. You said
15:32:29 <lenscape> unless someone puts an RPM in a distro, I'm not going to upgrade.
15:32:37 <lenscape> s/distro/repo
15:33:08 <jsled> lenscape: there's some details linked from <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash> about SuSE-related upgrades.
15:33:32 <jsled> In particular, Rauch Christian has (had?) some 10.2 and 10.3 repos.
15:34:21 <jsled> Thought it seems <ftp://ftp.rauchs-home.de/suse/10.3/i586/> that *he* only has 2.2.2.
15:34:22 <lenscape> jsled: there isn't a 10.3 link and the 10.1 and 10.2 links are broken
15:35:27 <jsled> (fixed)
15:35:41 <lenscape> unless this version has serious bugs, I'll stick with it for now. Every time I start trying to get to grips with gnucash I end up upgrading it again and never get any closer to using it
15:36:05 <fell> I heard, CRauch is now on another distro, so we need somone at packman or so, for fresh sue-rpms.
15:36:15 <lenscape> I *really* need to do some invoicing
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15:37:44 <lenscape> jsled: thanks for fixing the Suse link.
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15:53:15 <lenscape> jsled: I tried to upgade to 2.2.2 before but hit a dependecy problem I didn't understand
15:54:08 <fell> lenscape, you also ned the packman repository
15:54:22 <lenscape> fell: yep - have that
15:56:22 <fell> which dep prob?
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16:46:23 <lenscape> fell: it needed some module for dealing with German banking
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16:47:26 <lenscape> fell: I couldn't find the version it wanted so I went back to 2.2.0
16:48:36 <fell> aqbanking ...
16:49:18 <lenscape> fell: that wasn't the module name, if that's what you're suggesting
16:50:13 <jsled> ktoblcheck or something?
16:51:03 <lenscape> jsled: ktoblzcheck, yep
16:51:49 <fell> means account2banknumber_check
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17:09:46 <lenscape> if I can only select one invoice to preview - why can't I just type the number in? Why do I have to go through the pain of the selection dialogs?
17:10:13 <lenscape> what do I do if I need to print a dozen invoices?
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17:21:16 <lenscape> why is an invoice presented with a header with a bunch of input fields that I can't edit? Why can't I edit them there instead of having to open an edit dialog?
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17:24:07 <lenscape> is there no way to add simple company name, address and payment details to an invoice? Do I really have to turn the info into an image?
17:24:26 <jsled> lenscape: For that, try File > Properties
17:24:40 <jsled> I believe the company information there will get put into the invoice. I'm not sure about payment details.
17:25:43 <lenscape> I'm really quite surprised at how awkward this is to use.
17:26:07 <lenscape> If I find an error on an invoice, I have to unpost it, correct it and repost it. Why?
17:29:29 <jsled> Well, posted invoices are immutable, which makes *some* sense. If you've sent the invoice to the customer, it should be "hard" to change it…
17:29:49 <jsled> … now, how that "hard"ness could be implemented in a couple of ways.
17:32:56 <warlord> lenscape: because that's the way it was implemented. You're welcome to write patches if you dont like how it works.
17:34:26 <lenscape> warlord: unfortunately, not all accountants are programmers
17:34:52 <lenscape> jsled: thanks for the File->properties thing. Missed that before
17:35:10 <jsled> Yes, it's rather non-obvious.
17:36:23 <lenscape> jsled: it's business oriented information but not where the other business stuff is
17:36:38 <jsled> exactly.
17:36:59 <jsled> And it's not really a Property of the File, per se.
17:37:12 <jsled> I mean, it is. But so's *everything*, in those terms.
17:37:13 <warlord> jsled: Sure it is! It's a property of the book.
17:37:23 <warlord> The books for Business X..
17:37:26 <warlord> Vs. the books for Business Y.
17:37:38 <warlord> Ideally that information should be requested in the File -> New File druid.
17:42:15 <warlord> as for the search part -- yeah, we really need a PhraseWheel widget. Probably a GtkEntry with a special callback.
17:42:54 <lenscape> the easy invoice format plonks the company id on the page without saying what it is. The fancy format doesn't display it at all
17:43:13 <warlord> "company id"?
17:43:26 <lenscape> warlord: from file->properties
17:43:50 <warlord> Oh, the Tax Id.
17:44:41 <lenscape> I need to get my company id on the invoice somewhere - usually on the bottom margin
17:45:20 <warlord> Then you'll need to hack the report code (.scm) to do that.
17:45:34 <lenscape> company id - uk company registration number
17:47:26 <lenscape> warlord: where does that live?
17:47:38 <warlord> in the source tree or in the install tree?
17:47:47 <lenscape> install
17:47:55 <lenscape> is it compiled or plain text?
17:47:59 <warlord> it's scheme.
17:48:06 <warlord> so.. neither.
17:48:15 <lenscape> oh arse!
17:48:29 <warlord> it's certainly editable without recompiling.
17:48:46 <lenscape> Scheme! again. What is the passion for Scheme in Gnu?
17:49:28 <warlord> *shrugs* That horse left the barn well before any of the current devs started working on gnucash.
17:49:34 <jsled> GNU overall? Guile is the GNU-suggested extension language.
17:49:49 <jsled> If you mean GnuCash, well, see above, plus warlord's comment.
17:50:00 <lenscape> Gimp uses it too
17:50:15 <jsled> same deal, to some degree.
17:50:20 <lenscape> same engine?
17:51:14 <jsled> the scheme evaluator, yes (guile). Otherwise no.
17:51:17 <fell> I think, it started with teh LISP engine in EMACS long long ago.
17:51:33 <jsled> I mean, the other thing shared would be GTK, which came out of the GIMP, originally.
17:52:10 <lenscape> I don't have the time or inclination to learn enough Scheme to sort this out right now.
17:52:15 <jsled> fell: well, I was just after the GIMP guys at Berekely. I think it was more the fact that hte intro CS classes there were SICP/lisp.
17:54:38 <fell> yeah,it was a fun, when I was at RWTH Aachen, to extend my editor, but as I said, long ago.
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18:34:07 <lenscape> automatic invoice number selection seems a bit odd
18:34:21 <lenscape> why doesn't it just pick one more than the last one it was given?
18:34:41 <warlord> It picks one more from the last one IT gave you.
18:34:48 <lenscape> can I reset the sequence?
18:35:00 <warlord> edit your xml file
18:35:15 <warlord> (there's no way in the UI)
18:35:40 <lenscape> hmm
18:38:49 <lenscape> the next invoice number seems to be in a few places
18:39:26 <lenscape> warlord: do you know the xpath to the next invoice number?
18:41:43 <warlord> It's in one place.. the book counter at the top of the data file.
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18:43:52 <lenscape> it doesn't remember anything! I have to reset all the parameters for an invoice each time I run them!
18:44:50 <warlord> HUH?
18:45:39 <warlord> If you're complaining about what I *THINK* you're complaining about, then yes, every time you run a report it initializes the same initial settings. You can always create a saved report.
18:46:03 <lenscape> I previewed an invoice. Quit to checkout the XML file. Didn't change anything (viewed a copy). Started again - previewed another invoice and all the invoice parameters are back to defaults
18:46:22 <lenscape> columns, payment details, etc.
18:46:24 <warlord> "previewed" how?
18:46:37 <lenscape> viewed on the screen. Not printed
18:46:47 <warlord> And did you leave it open? Or did you close it?
18:48:12 <lenscape> closed it
18:48:44 <warlord> Well, then, what did you expect? You closed the report without saving it! Of course it's going to lose your settings!
18:48:57 <lenscape> I want the same settings for all invoices
18:49:02 <lenscape> same columns.
18:49:07 <lenscape> same payment details, etc
18:49:57 <warlord> Then save the report.
18:50:02 <warlord> ... with your settings.
18:50:08 <lenscape> I did click 'save' on the toolbar but I didn't see any way to save the report
18:50:48 <warlord> There's a button: "Add Report"
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18:51:07 <warlord> You need to change the report name before it activates.
18:51:12 <warlord> This is all in the documentation. Have you read it?
18:51:28 <lenscape> button is disabled
18:52:36 <warlord> Did you change the report name?
18:53:41 <lenscape> warlord: I've skimmed the docs but some of this stuff should be obvious
18:54:12 <warlord> It's obvious to most people.
18:54:22 <jsled> warlord: no its not.
18:54:26 <jsled> it's, even.
18:54:35 <warlord> 80% of the app is obvious to 80% of our users.
18:54:40 <lenscape> warlord: thanks for putting up with my dumb questions but I'm trying to achieve a lot in a little time here
18:54:54 <jsled> The requirement to rename a report before it's allowed to be saved is obvious to no one.
18:54:59 <jsled> 80%, sure.
18:55:08 <warlord> yes, THIS issue is a PITA.
18:55:24 <warlord> I'm hoping that the GUID-naming can remove that dependency..
18:55:37 <warlord> (we also need a way to remove added reports)
19:15:48 <lenscape> There are all sorts of problems with reports
19:16:03 <lenscape> some things - like the style sheet isn't saved
19:16:50 <lenscape> if you try and fix it, you can't resave the report
19:16:54 <jsled> yup
19:17:12 <lenscape> if you give the report a different name - like append a 2 - the new name appears without the suffix so you can't tell them apart
19:17:31 <lenscape> but it doesn't matter because the missing option is still missing anyway
19:19:06 <lenscape> the minimum number of entries is too long with my header but that isn't remembered either
19:19:49 <lenscape> ho hum
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