2008-05-23 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:59:54 <kimmo> is there any way (other than editing the .xml) to have equity accounts as subaccounts of liabilities?
02:01:25 <kimmo> (2.2.4 in use)
02:01:35 <warlord> No, allowed groupings are Equity, Assets+Liabilities, and Income+Expense
02:02:55 <kimmo> hrm
02:03:13 <warlord> Why would you even want to do that?
02:04:09 <kimmo> would it be possible to add that to the wishlist? In finnish legislation the balance sheet liabilities side should consist of liabilities and equity, and I'd really like to just use the exported-from-gnc balance sheet for reporting
02:04:46 <kimmo> I'm using a liability type account for shareholders' equity accounts at the moment
02:06:44 <kimmo> oh, now that I remember, is it possible to have gnucash default to sort-by-accountcode as it did ages ago (in 1.2.x)?
02:07:04 <warlord> No, that would not be accepted as a wishlist item. Run the Balance Sheet report.
02:07:24 <warlord> Um, you can sort by account code. Display the account code column and then click on it.
02:07:42 <kimmo> I know, but can I make it the global default sort mechanism?
02:07:57 <warlord> What do you mean, "global default"?
02:08:15 <kimmo> not accounts-file specific
02:08:28 <warlord> How many accounts files do you have?
02:08:32 <kimmo> 4
02:09:05 <warlord> Is it really that hard to select it 4 times?
02:09:15 <kimmo> 2.2.1 didn't remember the sorting method after quit, does 2.2.4/2.2.5?
02:09:51 <warlord> It should.
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02:10:03 <warlord> But I've never tried changing the sort method.
02:12:48 <kimmo> oh well. Other than that, the application is perfect
02:13:03 <kimmo> no, wait, can you incorporate support for finnish VAT e-paying? ;)
02:13:19 <warlord> Sure! Send in the code that implements it!
02:13:25 <kimmo> damnit
02:17:03 <kimmo> props for such a good app
02:17:08 <kimmo> even got my wife to use it
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02:18:41 <warlord> Nice!
02:18:42 <warlord> Thanks.
02:20:38 <kimmo> she was amazed to finally realize how fucking much she spent on makeup and beauty salons etc
02:21:55 <warlord> cost wise?
02:23:02 <kimmo> yeah
02:27:28 <warlord> *nods*
02:27:53 <kimmo> or how much she spent on our local equivalent of starbucks
02:28:34 <kimmo> with the exchange rates as they are, a latte about the size of a starbucks grande runs you $8 here
02:28:48 <kimmo> madness, I say
02:29:03 <warlord> wow
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02:30:16 <Bingulim> I entered here just to say: Thank you for this AWESOME piece of software. I just LOVE IT!!!
02:32:37 <warlord> thanks
02:34:09 <Bingulim> No, thank you! :-D
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02:36:31 <kimmo> aren't you popular tonight derek
02:36:46 <kimmo> too bad everyone's giving you props is a bona fide geek ;)
02:36:51 <warlord> apparently. :)
02:36:55 <kimmo> heh
02:37:05 <warlord> heh
02:37:36 <kimmo> do the reports still use scheme?
02:37:49 <warlord> yep
02:39:01 <kimmo> nice
02:40:29 <kimmo> is it possible to mark an account so that no entries can be made?
02:41:05 <kimmo> most of my accounts (as I'd imagine most everyone business's accounts) are simply grouping nodes
02:41:06 <warlord> yep. mark it as a pla eholder
02:41:10 <kimmo> ah ok
02:41:15 <kimmo> thanks
02:49:18 <kimmo> is there some end-user documentation on what exactly reconciliation means?
02:51:25 <kimmo> in the "reconcile account" sense
02:54:03 <kimmo> or is it just a fancy way of saying "reconcile all transactions up to date"?
03:01:57 <warlord> it means "making sure that gnucash matches up to some external source"... but it's done "to date"
03:03:38 <warlord> http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/guide/txns-reconcile1.html
03:04:09 <warlord> anyways, bedtime for me.
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12:25:27 <abrock> I am running Ubuntu Hardy Heron and need to know how to get a version of Gnucash that supports "Direct Connect" feature of banks.
12:26:17 <jsled> abrock: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2#Distribution-specific_Information
12:29:31 <abrock> jsled: Ok will give it a try. Another site I followed worked for Gutsy but didn't for Hardy Heron. http://devarthur.blogspot.com/2007/10/gnucash-22-on-ubuntu-gutsy-with-ofx.html
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13:16:06 <Demosthenes> i'm trying to reconcile credit card data versus a dump of expenses from an accounting system. is that something i could use gnucash to do?
13:16:23 <Demosthenes> obviously its not a one time deal, i'll end up doing it repeatedly
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13:28:37 <warlord> Demosthenes: Yes
13:29:11 <Demosthenes> warlord: glad to hear it. thats of course provided i work around the csv to qif issues
13:29:41 <Demosthenes> one of the problems i've got is that transactions to one side or the other are combined, which throws a wrench in line by line comparison...
13:32:05 <warlord> Yeah... CSV doesn't really support split transactions. QIF does.
13:32:27 <Demosthenes> well, i don't know which ones are combined, which is why i'm having to massage the data so much.
13:34:30 <warlord> Ahh, that certainly does make it more interesting. Where did the data originate?
13:35:03 <Demosthenes> CC transactions on one side, and output from our expense accounting system on the other
13:35:33 <Demosthenes> the accounting system likes to pay things in groups, plus some transactions that are single line items for amex get split up on the expense side
13:36:00 <Demosthenes> so i have multiple many to one relationships to deal with
13:37:01 <warlord> That sounds like a major PITA.
13:37:30 <warlord> Normally reconciliation happens only with Assets and Liabilities.. E.g. you have a CC statement and match the statement txns to those entered in the system.
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13:41:04 <Demosthenes> yeah, i know. :P
13:41:40 <Demosthenes> i want to prevent it from causing a future problem, but i don't think that any financial app (gnucash, quicken, etc) can really help
13:42:02 <warlord> I still don't fully understand your situation; hat is your "expence accounting system"?
13:42:05 <warlord> expense, even
13:42:24 <Demosthenes> its a web app the company uses
13:42:59 <Demosthenes> i use CC, take receipts, input data into web app, they combine into bulk payments to CC
13:43:26 <warlord> So you're trying to do this for YOU? Or for the company?
13:43:49 <Demosthenes> unfortunately, CC values are sometimes different from line items in web apps, whether due to fraud (waiters taking liberties w/ tip) or policy enforcement in the web app.
13:43:55 <Demosthenes> for ME. they dropped it in my lap.
13:44:30 <warlord> So you're just trying to track your personal CC expenses and make sure they match what you get reimbursed?
13:44:36 <Demosthenes> basically
13:44:54 <Demosthenes> the complication arises where i have to try to keep in sync with the second system.
13:45:06 <warlord> Well, here's what I do:
13:45:08 <Demosthenes> and handle the differences.
13:45:29 <warlord> As I incur expenses I make transactions from Cash or CC -> Assets:Business Expenses.
13:46:01 <warlord> Then, when I input the expenses into the web app (I have a web app to report them, too) I mark them as "cleared" in GnuCash (in the A:BE account).
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13:46:22 <Demosthenes> shouldn't be cleared until reimbursement received
13:46:38 <warlord> If the web app wont let me enter the expense == to what I think it is, then I modify it in gnucash there, and split it into a personal expense for the balance that they wont reimburse me.
13:46:40 <Demosthenes> values put into expense system aren't static, they can be modified by accountants without telling me
13:46:58 <Demosthenes> splits make sense there.
13:47:09 <warlord> Then, when the reimbursement comes I run a reconcile process (with an ending reconciled balance of $0) and mark all the reimbursed txns as reconciled.
13:47:20 <warlord> So this way I can keep track of the three states:
13:47:27 <warlord> 1) Payed but not reported
13:47:35 <warlord> 2) Reported, but not reimbursed
13:47:42 <warlord> 3) Reimbursed
13:48:42 <warlord> Well, if they are modified by accountants without telling you then when you go to reconcile (at reibursement time) you'll notice that it doesn't balance properly.. So then you'll have to go through them one by one and see what got changed from under you.
13:49:29 <warlord> As for the "fraudulent waiter" --- that happens differently. When you get the CC bill you reconcile your Liabilities:CC account and that's when you notice that the charge on your receipt != the charge on the bill... So that's when you call the CC company.
13:52:25 <Demosthenes> hrm.
13:52:53 <Demosthenes> its that 1 by 1 process thats a PITA
13:54:17 <warlord> true, but it's just a PITA that they'd change something without telling you..
13:54:34 <warlord> (what I would do is mail my Finance people and ask them what's up?)
13:54:42 <Demosthenes> on both sides. normally i enter my expenses from the paper reciepts...
13:54:44 <warlord> It happened to me, once.. And it was THEIR error.
13:54:48 <Demosthenes> so i'm taken by surprise twice.
13:54:51 <warlord> (actually, once it was mine, too)
13:55:12 <Demosthenes> what really bites is i can't import data into the webapps
13:55:24 <warlord> Yeah, neither can I. It's a PITA, but eh.
13:55:31 <warlord> So I spend an hour after each trip.
13:55:56 <warlord> But... I enter the info out of gnucash, with the receipts in hand.. So I know that what I enter into the webapp == what I've entered into gnucash.
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14:26:24 <Demosthenes> warlord: i rather like the idea. i think i need to look at the online banking component.
14:30:11 <warlord> GnuCash's online banking (in the US) is pull-only.
14:30:57 <Demosthenes> should be fine, i don't seem to have that option atm anyway
14:31:38 <warlord> heh. ok.
14:31:47 <Demosthenes> importing the bank data doesn't sound like a problem, but importing the history data from the expense system and tying it in sounds like hell
14:33:05 <warlord> Yeah, I'd just start from scratch instead of trying to pull in the history.
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14:36:44 <Demosthenes> problem is i still have to resolve that history :P
14:37:09 <warlord> True.. But you might just want to do that by hand and use GnuCash going forward.
14:40:14 <Demosthenes> does gnucash export csv?
14:42:19 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_can_I_export_data.3F
14:43:01 <Demosthenes> html works
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14:58:53 <Demosthenes> warlord: thanks for the suggestions
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16:20:54 <lenscape> clicking help in Preferences gives me "GnuCash could not find the files for the help documentation. This is likely to bebecause the 'gnucash-docs' package is not installed."
16:21:10 <lenscape> however
16:21:34 <lenscape> rpm -q gnucash-docs
16:21:34 <lenscape> gnucash-docs-2.2.0-31
16:21:40 <lenscape> it is installed
16:22:56 <jsled> suse?
16:23:12 <lenscape> jsled: yep
16:24:26 <vandenoever> i've the same here, just installed gnucash-docs in kubuntu and now i still cannot open the tutorial
16:24:32 <vandenoever> even after restarting gnucash
16:24:40 <jsled> vandenoever: on suse as well?
16:24:44 <jsled> soryr.
16:24:49 <jsled> "kubuntu".
16:24:52 <vandenoever> jsled: yep
16:25:13 <jsled> Well, I don't know the details about suse, but it has a standing problem locating the help files.
16:25:38 <jsled> And I don't know what's up with ubuntu; you might need ot install gnucash after installing gnucash-docs, or something.
16:25:48 <lenscape> is there another way to open them? I'm going to need all the help I can get!
16:25:57 <jsled> Or maybe force the use of the gnome-help-viewer, if its trying to use the kde help viewer.
16:26:12 <jsled> But, yeah, both docs are at http://www.gnucash.org/
16:26:14 <warlord> on Suse the problem is that the ghelp viewer application is buggy.
16:27:11 <lenscape> are there any one-way streets in Gnucash? I'm just getting started and want to be sure there are no irreversable settings that can screw me up
16:27:36 <lenscape> if I make a bad choice now, can I fix it later?
16:27:52 <lenscape> like - transferring transactions between accounts, for example
16:31:01 <jsled> I don't know if I'd say irreversible, but there are certainly bad patterns that people can fall into while figuring things out that become painful to change later.
16:31:18 <jsled> Mostly because gnucash doesn't have a "batch transaction change" facility.
16:31:31 <lenscape> I have some accounting experience so as long as these are generic issues, I should be ok
16:31:57 <lenscape> is there a repo with the latest RPMS? Suse's repos only have 2.2.0
16:32:02 <jsled> yeah. I'd recommend starting against a datafile that you intend to throw away.
16:33:15 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/SuSE … but I think we saw a few weeks ago that those pages (and rauch's repositories) might be out of date.
16:35:04 <jsled> Well, it looks like ftp://ftp.rauchs-home.de/suse/10.3/i586/ has a gnucash-2.2.2, anyways. But latest is 2.2.5.
16:35:31 <jsled> Maybe you can grab his 2.2.2 package and use the packaging info therein to build your own 2.2.5? I think just bumping the version number should be sufficient.
16:35:48 <lenscape> hmm
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17:01:33 <lenscape> jsled: what's the difference between the two gnucash rpms in there?
17:02:14 <lenscape> ftp.rauchs-home.de has two RPMs for gnucash
17:03:13 <jsled> I don't know. Especially since there's already a package-specific revision number (presumably, the 0 in "2.2.2-0").
17:03:29 <lenscape> ok - thanks
17:03:35 * lenscape picks one at random
17:04:16 <jsled> go for ".2" it's about 26 hours later, and has 1KB more goodness! :)
17:07:37 <lenscape> damn!
17:07:55 <lenscape> oh no - we're good.
17:09:11 <lenscape> hmm - failed dependency: ktoblzcheck
17:15:09 <lenscape> interesting. ktoblzcheck is a thing for German banking
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17:16:58 <warlord> required by AqBanking
17:17:00 <warlord> @op
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17:28:00 <dbreiser> has anyone else tried cairo 1.6.4 with gnucash yet? It crashes the mac version of gnucash 2.2.5 or trunk when attempting printing
17:38:25 <warlord> Fedora 9 has 1.6.4, so it must work at some level.
17:39:44 <warlord> (but I haven't tried it, yet)
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18:11:44 <dbreiser> OK. I'm pestering both the fink folk and cairo mailing list...
18:17:21 <warlord> ok
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