2008-05-08 GnuCash IRC logs

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16:04:27 <drid> Hi all, i need some help regarding tax tables
16:04:33 <drid> the following conditions apply
16:04:52 <drid> there are two taxes, 20% and 19%
16:05:18 <drid> when u send an invoice
16:05:31 <drid> for example $100
16:05:55 <drid> each tax is computed on the $100 so it is $19 and $20
16:05:57 <drid> but
16:06:20 <drid> what i need to do is
16:06:49 <warlord> You have a PST/GST situation where one of the taxes is on top of the other tax?
16:06:53 <drid> to have the 20% tax included in the ammount and the 19% added extra
16:07:05 <drid> no each tax is on the $100
16:07:29 <drid> i will elaborate on my example
16:07:29 <warlord> If each tax is on the $100 individually then $19 and $20 are the right numbers.
16:07:56 <drid> i have a customer for which i will perform a task for $100
16:08:16 <warlord> HOWEVER, if one tax is on "top of" the other tax, then you have Tax1 = Amt * T1, and Tax2 = (Amt + Tax1) * T2
16:08:21 <drid> i will issue a receipt of $100 plus 19% tax
16:08:23 <warlord> drid: please dont
16:08:34 <warlord> I understand the math. you dont need to explain it.
16:08:47 <warlord> Unless it doesn't fall into one of those two categories.
16:08:51 <drid> now when i get paid a 20% tax is deducted form the $100 so the final ammount is 99
16:09:31 <drid> in the invoice table there is
16:09:33 <warlord> There's no world of math in which 20% on $100 leads to 99.
16:10:12 <drid> it is 100 + 19% minus 20% of the 100
16:10:35 <warlord> Where in the world ARE you?
16:10:46 <drid> greece and i hate it
16:10:59 <warlord> what the heck does that 20% represent?
16:11:16 <drid> the 20% is called tax and the 19% is the VAT
16:11:26 <drid> so what happens is
16:11:32 <warlord> Why is the 20% negative?
16:11:42 <warlord> That makes no sense.
16:12:18 <drid> because it is deducted form the ammount i get payd in order to be given to the IRS
16:12:30 <drid> it;s f**** sick i know
16:12:38 <warlord> So the VENDOR deducts it?
16:12:42 <warlord> (er Customer)
16:12:47 <drid> yes
16:13:20 <drid> so in the tax tables
16:13:27 <drid> sorry the invoice tables
16:13:31 <warlord> I.... dont think there's a way to represent that in the tax table. I dont think I have the concept of a "negative tax"..
16:13:41 <warlord> You were right the first time, "tax tables"
16:13:53 <warlord> This would be a 20% "withholding" by the customer.
16:14:07 <drid> can i do that?
16:14:15 <drid> somehow
16:14:17 <warlord> Not automatically.
16:14:35 <drid> i created a tax table with the two taxes
16:14:52 <warlord> The way I would do it is during Process Payment, process it as if they paid you the full amount and then after it's processed split the payment transaction into the 80/20
16:14:55 <drid> but the problem is that i need the one tax to be included in the ammount and the other one not
16:15:19 <drid> intresting
16:15:49 <warlord> The program does not handle this kind of withholding.
16:16:02 <drid> so i could direct the 20% part to a tax expense table
16:17:09 <warlord> I would make a Tax Table with the 19% into a Tax Liability.. And then I'd make the payment split into a Tax Asset... Sort of like GST Collected and GST Withheld.
16:18:36 <drid> ok let me try that
16:19:46 <drid> ok so i crated the 19%tax created an invoice and posted it
16:19:54 <drid> now i process payment?>
16:20:05 <warlord> Yes, but you have to add that 20% back in.
16:20:12 <warlord> and then take it out again.
16:22:09 <drid> ok how do i do that, i have a posted invoice for 119 (100 + 19)
16:22:23 <drid> so when i proccess it what ammount should i use
16:23:59 <warlord> *phone*
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16:31:50 <warlord> 119
16:32:11 <warlord> even though they only paid you 80% of that
16:32:16 <drid> ok
16:32:35 <warlord> so they'll pay you 95.2
16:32:44 <warlord> you process payment for 119
16:33:34 <drid> ok
16:33:54 <warlord> then split it so that into 95.2 / 23.8, ther 95.2 119 comes from A/R, 95.2 goes to your bank, and 23.8 goes to your "Taxes Withheld" account
16:33:55 <drid> and i split?
16:34:07 <drid> ok
16:34:26 <warlord> (sorry -- typing one-handed while oh pnhone_
16:34:33 <drid> noprob :-)
16:34:56 <drid> can the split be done automagically?
16:36:30 <warlord> no
16:36:53 <warlord> gnucash does not support withholding
16:36:58 <drid> ok
16:37:18 <drid> one last question, where should i put tax returns?
16:37:57 <warlord> what is a tax return?
16:38:10 <drid> o here is the funny part
16:38:44 <drid> that 20% that is withheld, well in the end of the year if my total income is below 10000 it is returnet to me
16:39:10 <drid> that is thetax return
16:39:26 <drid> the hold my mone for no good reason and one year later they give it back
16:41:43 <drid> well i hope i made your evening/morning interesting with the greek tax system
16:42:24 <drid> thanks 4 all the help
16:46:49 <warlord> Transfer from Taxes Withheld to your Bank.
16:46:55 <warlord> ... just like anything else.
16:47:24 <drid> ok, thanks again
16:47:40 <warlord> You're welcome.
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19:27:51 <wolfemi1> Hello all, I have a question about OFX direct connect, is this the right place to ask?
19:28:04 <wolfemi1> (in Gnucash, of course)
19:35:31 <wolfemi1> Okay, here goes... I can't get my citistreet investment accounts to update, and I don't know if there's any connection logs that I can look at to get more information.
19:36:11 <wolfemi1> I've verified the sign-on information, and used the update feature in MS Money, so I know that much works.
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19:50:32 <wolfemi1> I can't even get accounts from the login information
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22:38:52 <dbreiser> wolfemi1: directconnect doesn't work too well with investment accounts at the moment
22:39:20 <dbreiser> whether or not 'get accounts' works is also a function of the financial institution
22:39:46 <dbreiser> I don't think I can Get Accounts for ameritrade either
22:40:47 <dbreiser> I use a truly convoluted method to have directconnect fetch the ofx data, but I cancel the dc connection and import the data through File->Import
23:03:49 <wolfemi1> Okay, I was afraid of that. I found that 'get accounts' does work with citistreet (through MS Money and from the OFX blog)... How would I go about using the convoluted method to get the data? :)
23:07:01 <dbreiser> You have to set the environment variable AQOFX_LOG_COMM=1, which stores a transcript of the ofx data stream in /tmp
23:08:08 <dbreiser> then you run a normal Actions->Online Actions->Get Transactions for the account, but Cancel when it gets to the transaction matcher dialog
23:08:23 <dbreiser> then you can retrieve the ofx data from /tmp/ofx.log
23:08:55 <dbreiser> be sure to delete ofx.log afterwards, or you'll leave your password sitting around in /tmp
23:09:32 <wolfemi1> I feel I should mention that I'm using the Windows build and have been for a few days now, how do I set the environment variable? Is it a value in a text file?
23:10:39 <dbreiser> hmm. There's somewhere to set those things in a control panel. It's been several months since I've used the windows version, so I'm not sure.
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23:10:55 <dbreiser> I also don't know what Windows uses for /tmp
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23:14:53 <wolfemi1> Hmm, could it be "Verbose Debug Messages"?
23:15:33 <wolfemi1> under "online banking", that is...
23:15:47 <dbreiser> No. it's a system thing
23:16:17 <dbreiser> vebose debug messages puts up a lot of messages in the terminal window, but not actual ofx data
23:17:20 <wolfemi1> I see. Well, I have to turn in for the night, thanks for the help. I expect I'll be poking at this later, and probably will come on to bug you again. :)
23:17:32 <dbreiser> ok
23:18:09 <wolfemi1> Fantastic software, by the way. I actually got all of my 1999-present MS Money data qif-ed and imported and actually working, which is a first for the six or so PFMs I've tried. Thanks!
23:18:50 <dbreiser> woohoo. I only meddle. Not much programming
23:19:27 <wolfemi1> I would like to meddle as well once I get some free time. Good night.
23:19:39 <dbreiser> goodnight
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23:38:26 <dbreiser> @tell wolfemi1 Control Panel/System, Advanced tab has an Environmental Variables button. Click it and add AQOFX_LOG_COMM to the list
23:38:26 <gncbot> dbreiser: The operation succeeded.