2008-04-03 GnuCash IRC logs
00:03:08 <Schwern> Ooh, I locked Gnucash
00:03:39 <jsled> no, there's not.
00:03:53 <jsled> Bulk transaction operation or rules, per se...
00:04:25 <jsled> though there is auto-complete; if you enter a txn with the same description as before, it will copy that transaction.
00:04:33 <Schwern> What's the recommended way of categorizing a year's worth of checking account transactions?
00:04:48 <foo> Schwern: download the qif from your bank
00:04:49 <jsled> How are you entering them?
00:05:49 <Schwern> I imported them from the QIFs
00:06:06 <Schwern> Now I have to go through all the transactions and assign the proper transfer
00:06:11 <Schwern> I would like to speed this process up
00:08:40 <jsled> The QIF importer incorporates a description-based learning process, as a function of the import.
00:09:02 <jsled> I believe that it only applies at the level of imported files, however.
00:09:10 <Schwern> Lovely
00:09:17 <jsled> So, it's: import 1 file, assign Expense account mappings.
00:09:33 <jsled> Import next file; get many remembered, assign the rest.
00:09:43 <jsled> Import next file, get more remembered, assign stragglers.
00:09:47 <jsled> &c.
00:10:38 <Schwern> Boy it sure would be nice if I could edit more than one transaction at a time.
00:10:46 <jsled> Yes, it's been a RFE for years.
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00:58:11 <twiddle> hello
01:00:23 <twiddle> I've just encountered something really odd when entering my transactions into gnucash - it seems the every transaction in recent months (going back to 29 Oct 2007 from what I can ascertain) is dated a day earlier than the date the transaction had been entered with
01:01:13 <twiddle> I loaded a few of my backup files (they go back 30 days) and it's the same
01:03:28 <Schwern> Just a wild guess... time zones?
01:07:51 <twiddle> I'm using gnucash for windows so I'm not sure how timezone settings would tie in with it - nothing's changed with my system in that regard
01:09:54 <twiddle> here's another thing I just tried - until the end of November I was using gnucash in linux, and just before I started using the windows version I kept a backup called "pre-windows backup" which I still have - I just loaded that backup and see the same problem
01:10:27 <twiddle> the transactions from 29 Oct until the end of Nov are all dated a day early, but all the prior transactions look correct
01:11:58 <Schwern> I wonder if it has to do with Windows storing the time in your current time zone and Linux storing it as GMT.
01:13:32 <twiddle> this problem only appeared today - I've been using the Windows version since November
01:14:38 <twiddle> December rather
01:48:58 <twiddle> two things to add now
01:49:20 <twiddle> one - it seems to be affecting some transactions going back years
01:49:34 <twiddle> two - I've just been going through the data file and discovered something
01:49:56 <twiddle> <trn:date-posted>
01:49:57 <twiddle> <ts:date>2005-08-29 00:00:00 +1000</ts:date>
01:49:57 <twiddle> </trn:date-posted>
01:50:11 <twiddle> <trn:date-posted>
01:50:11 <twiddle> <ts:date>2005-11-11 23:00:00 +1000</ts:date>
01:50:11 <twiddle> </trn:date-posted>
01:50:46 <twiddle> for every transaction, the time in the field I pasted above is either 00:00:00 or 23:00:00
01:51:58 <twiddle> most are 00:00:00, but everything going back to 29 Oct 2007 has 23:00:00, as do quite a few older transactions - it's those ones that are incorrectly displaying the date a day early
02:06:17 <twiddle> I've just been entering some test transactions and they're saving with 00:00:00
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04:09:44 <Cyorxamp> Lo, don't suppose anyone knows if theres any HBCI or FinTS capable banks _outside_ of germany? perhaps the UK?
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04:36:28 <kwak> is gnucash ok for school accounting? billing?
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06:01:53 <fell> twiddle: possible it has something to do with this stupid daylight saving time / Summertime?
06:06:31 <twiddle> fell: one thing that happened was windows changed changed my clock for daylight saving a week early and did it again after I corrected it, then I unchecked the windows setting to automatically adjust for daylight saving time
06:07:01 <twiddle> but I don't see how that would tie in with the gnucash problem - seems coincidental even though they both have to do with time
06:10:03 <fell> I don't know, how which windos version handles it today, but I remember W98 handlet it somewhat strange
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06:20:29 <fell> could you compare your behavior with http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=137017 ?
06:23:41 <twiddle> have to go but thanks for pointing me to that - will check later
06:23:44 <twiddle> bye
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06:32:42 <fell> @tell twiddle 0:00 CEST = 23:00 CET - 1 day
06:32:42 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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09:39:02 <kimmo> hey folks
09:40:34 <kimmo> has anyone experienced this kind of behavior: Open an account window, try to enter a new entry. On hitting enter key, you get the error "This transaction is being edited somewhere else. Please close that ledger first" (Or something along those lines)
09:40:39 <kimmo> that was the only account window open
09:40:58 <kimmo> creating the transaction from the other account worked, but
09:41:35 <kimmo> I was left with empty transactions (I can only see them in general ledger) that have a date, but don't disappear when I delete them, and don't get fixed with check and repair
09:42:59 <kimmo> actually the error is "This transaction is already being edited in another register. Please finish editing if there first." (Now that I got it again)
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09:54:56 <kimmo> however when I open up the save file in an xml editor, those empty transactions don't appear there
09:55:57 <jsled> You'll want to shy away from using the general ledger. It's has some unique issues.
09:56:21 <jsled> I've seen that situation you describe, even in the account ledgers.
09:56:29 <jsled> I'm not exactly sure how to reproduce it.
09:56:50 <kimmo> yeah I got the error message in the account registers
09:56:55 <jsled> If you can find a reliable way to do so -- especially from a new/empty datafile -- that would be grand,
09:57:17 <kimmo> the ghostly transactions only appear in the general ledger, too
09:57:55 <kimmo> parsing the uncompressed datafile only shows up exactly the transactions that have content, though
09:58:55 <kimmo> it's not an issue for me atm, but my auditor told me that I should really have a general ledger printouts with my books, since "I'm using such an exotic file format"
09:59:30 <kimmo> oh, and this happens with 2.2.1 and 2.2.4 on CentOS, from mueller's repo
10:00:26 <kimmo> oh, and now that I'm at it, whoever thought of autosave, and replaying a log file, that was brilliant
10:00:34 <kimmo> back in the 1.4 days...
10:00:35 <kimmo> uh oh
10:02:24 <kimmo> oh, I have another question; If I have several multi split (that all have a split in "bank acct") transactions with identical names, is it possible to select which one to use for the autocomplete feature?
10:03:11 <kimmo> "signed, I live in a country that has 4 different sales tax rates"
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14:38:31 <AlonzoTG> =\
14:38:43 <AlonzoTG> Yep, it's givin me grief again.
14:40:19 <AlonzoTG> lemme know when you wake up...
14:40:33 <AlonzoTG> I have more transactions to do and I need to finish my current one first.
14:40:43 <jsled> If you have a question, you should just ask it.
14:41:26 <AlonzoTG> I sank nearly all my money into silver.
14:41:28 <AlonzoTG> OK.
14:41:59 <AlonzoTG> I put the silver in the silver account, then go into my checking account and finish the dollar side of the transaction.
14:42:24 <AlonzoTG> It gives an appropriate fee for the transaction overhead, and I put that ammount into the comodity overhead...
14:42:32 <AlonzoTG> maybe it didn't...
14:42:33 <AlonzoTG> hmm...
14:42:38 <AlonzoTG> =\
14:42:43 <warlord> are you entering in an exchange rate?
14:42:45 <AlonzoTG> no, I think it worked.
14:43:12 <AlonzoTG> You can't edit an exchange rate in the transaction, if you click on the transaction and try to edit the exchange rate nothing will happen. the pop-up menu will disappear and nothing.
14:43:29 <AlonzoTG> In any event the silver transaction worked.
14:43:33 <warlord> from which side?
14:43:46 <AlonzoTG> Then I tried to enter the purchase of 1.8 golds...
14:44:06 <AlonzoTG> I enter the silver in the silver transaction, link it to the checking account, then go over there and put the dollar ammount.
14:44:25 <AlonzoTG> You need to edit the account from both sides otherwise, it's the only way to get around the bugs in this damn thing.
14:45:42 <AlonzoTG> Alright, in the gold, I put in 1.8 in the gold account, run over to the checking account put in $1,890
14:45:44 <warlord> Is this a multi-split transaction?
14:46:12 <warlord> And when you do that.. I bet your gold account gets reset to 'empty'
14:46:21 <AlonzoTG> Yeah, I book all comodity assets at the price given at the top of this crackpot's page: http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
14:46:44 <AlonzoTG> no, my gold account has 1.8
14:46:46 <AlonzoTG> which is correct.
14:47:08 <warlord> Man you're being rude today. "bugs in this damn thing". "crackpot's page".
14:47:26 <AlonzoTG> my checking account though says my comodity overhead is $1888
14:47:48 <AlonzoTG> yeah, george ure is a bit of a crackpot and he says as much.
14:48:07 <AlonzoTG> but then he does present a more balanced analysis of the economy than the treasury department...
14:49:28 <AlonzoTG> Actually george Ure is more sane than many people, he just looks like a crackpot through the lense of mainstream america.
14:49:33 <AlonzoTG> but enough about him.
14:49:35 <warlord> If you didn't edit the exchange rate then the transaction will be off.
14:49:37 <AlonzoTG> I have a transaction to finish. =
14:49:54 <AlonzoTG> Yeah, I went and did that but apparently I did things in the wrong order or something.
14:49:58 <warlord> Is this a split transaction?
14:50:21 <warlord> Well, you could delete it and recreate it. I suggest creating it from the USD account, not hte Gold account.
14:50:35 <AlonzoTG> yes, it is {hard assets XAU, comodity premium } : checking account (FRN)
14:50:56 <AlonzoTG> hmm...
14:51:03 <AlonzoTG> maybe it's set up using the old comadity account option...
14:51:17 <AlonzoTG> I had created it long ago and left it idle because I was only thinking about buying gold.
14:51:17 <warlord> What's the Account Type?
14:51:24 <AlonzoTG> this is the first transaction.
14:52:22 <AlonzoTG> it's set up as an asset account.
14:52:33 <warlord> So account type == Asset
14:52:46 <warlord> (not Bank, not Cash, not Stock...)
14:52:48 <AlonzoTG> yes.
14:53:01 <AlonzoTG> denomination is XAU
14:53:26 <warlord> Okay.
14:53:39 <AlonzoTG> I cleaned out the coin dealer. ;)
14:54:05 <warlord> So open up your FRN account and let's (re-)create the txn from there.
14:55:00 <AlonzoTG> alrighht, XAU account now empty...
14:55:41 <AlonzoTG> starting new transaction.
14:56:19 <AlonzoTG> put credit of 1890 in checking account...
14:57:01 <AlonzoTG> what should I do next?
14:57:21 <warlord> Well, what's the FRN values for each split?
14:57:47 <AlonzoTG> hmmm...
14:57:57 <AlonzoTG> I usually try to make gnucash do that computation.
14:58:37 <warlord> HUH? You know how much you paid for the gold, and you know how much commission they took. right?
14:59:45 <AlonzoTG> I know how many coins I bought.
15:00:12 <AlonzoTG> so I tell gnucash the coins, the exchange rate, the price in FRNs, and then let gnucash do the arithmetic.
15:00:37 <warlord> you can't do it that way.
15:00:54 <AlonzoTG> =P
15:01:04 <AlonzoTG> I don't want to get bitten by rounding bugs...
15:01:20 <AlonzoTG> so I tell it exactly how much gold I have, and exactly how many FRNs I spent....
15:01:32 <warlord> That's fine.
15:01:41 <AlonzoTG> the precice value in the comission account is not quite as important.
15:01:59 <AlonzoTG> but at EOY, I'll need to figure out how to reconcile these with the equity account....
15:03:23 <AlonzoTG> alright, did the math by my TI-85.
15:03:27 <warlord> When entering a transaction you NEED to know all the values in one currency. gnucash can do in-place computation so you can compute the value in place. But then you need to use the exchange-rate dialog to fill in the XAU side. But your view from the FRN account is ALWAYS in FRN.
15:03:54 <warlord> No need to do it there. gnucash can do it: 1.8 * 1234
15:04:04 <warlord> (1.8 coins @ 1234/coin )
15:06:00 <AlonzoTG> I entered the entire transaction in the FRN account, the transaction appears in the gold account but all values are blank.
15:07:46 <warlord> How did you move from split to split?
15:08:23 <AlonzoTG> I have it configured to "show all splits"
15:08:34 <AlonzoTG> so I always see the transaction in standard journal form.
15:13:36 <warlord> * waits patiently for you to answer my question *
15:13:58 <AlonzoTG> I thought I had answered that.
15:14:10 <AlonzoTG> I said that I have it set so it always shows me splits.
15:14:26 <AlonzoTG> sometimes I tab, sometimes I mouse...e
15:14:39 <AlonzoTG> but then I'm hardly even conscious of exactly what I do to do such things.
15:15:33 <warlord> Which is why I'm asking. when you just did it now, how did you do it?
15:16:03 <AlonzoTG> I don't remember...
15:16:26 <AlonzoTG> I may have started to tab over, went to far, then moused back to it or any combination of keyboard and mouse gestures.
15:16:28 <warlord> Okay.... let's do this again.
15:16:44 <warlord> and just tab off the end.
15:18:29 <AlonzoTG> I made sure I was not in the gold account, then changed a minor value then changed it back and hit enter until I was off the transaction.
15:18:40 <AlonzoTG> there transaction in the gold account is still completely blank.
15:19:42 <warlord> * waits patiently for you to do as I say instead of going off and trying other things on your own *
15:20:02 <AlonzoTG> =\
15:20:14 <AlonzoTG> I'd have to hit tab about twenty times to get out of the transaction with nothing but tabs...
15:21:19 <warlord> Yeah, well... it's more important as you're entering it the first time. Or at least getting out of the split into the XAU account.
15:22:34 <AlonzoTG> re-created the transaction again.
15:22:40 <warlord> Please dont second guess me. Just do what I ask otherwise this will take much longer (or I might get frustrated with you and go back to my paying gig)
15:22:46 <warlord> using tabs?
15:22:58 <AlonzoTG> gig?
15:23:14 <AlonzoTG> the transaction is blank right now, I haven't entered anything.
15:23:17 <AlonzoTG> I'm in the FRN side.
15:23:37 <warlord> Gig. Job?
15:23:38 <AlonzoTG> I'm gonna enter things starting with my computed value for the debit ammounts.
15:23:51 <warlord> your first split should be the "current" account.
15:23:52 <jsled> (gig = job. That etymology is apparently and supposedly from the jazz musicians, but its unknown.)
15:23:59 <AlonzoTG> oh,
15:24:01 <jsled> (/me happened to look it up the other day...)
15:24:01 <AlonzoTG> sorry.
15:24:05 <AlonzoTG> I thought you said playing not paying.
15:24:39 <AlonzoTG> I'm having a bad-brain day, I've even been running stop signs. =0
15:24:43 <AlonzoTG> =\
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15:32:10 <warlord> so... did the exchange-rate dialog pop up after you tabbed off the XAU split?
15:32:37 <AlonzoTG> Here's what happened.
15:32:47 <AlonzoTG> you need to start with a blank transaction in the FRN account.
15:33:06 <AlonzoTG> then set the first entry in the split to XAU, and then enter the debit ammount in FRNs,
15:33:20 <AlonzoTG> the dialogue pops up, enter the debit ammount in comodity value, in this case 1.8
15:33:33 <AlonzoTG> the transaction then disappears from the FRN account....
15:33:47 <AlonzoTG> then you go to the gold account and set the credit back to the FRN account.
15:33:55 <AlonzoTG> go back to the FRN account and enter the correct credit ammount.
15:34:14 <AlonzoTG> then the comodity premium value will appear as an imbalance and you then assign that to the correct account and you're done.
15:34:51 <warlord> But if you create the first split as into the current account the exch-rate dialog doesn't pop up?
15:35:01 <AlonzoTG> nope..
15:35:03 <warlord> (er, doesn't pop up when you enter the second XAU split)
15:35:45 <AlonzoTG> when I do that, I'm back in a FRN account and debiting a FRN account so there's no conversion.
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15:36:14 <warlord> right..
15:36:17 <AlonzoTG> Anyway, I'm done for the day, Apparently few gnucash users invest in comodities. (ie, will be broke within the next two years...)
15:36:33 <warlord> What version of gnucash are you using?
15:36:45 <AlonzoTG> 2.2.4
15:37:04 <warlord> * sigh * We really need the register-rewrite to finish.
15:39:52 <warlord> The logic for when to bring up the exch-rate dialog is..... flakey at best.
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15:45:59 <Simon> hmm, is there a way to re-order accounts?
15:46:35 <warlord> how do you want to reorder them?
15:48:26 <Simon> well they're under the parent account in the order I created them
15:50:07 <warlord> Have you exited and restarted gnucash?
15:50:18 <Simon> yes
15:50:28 <warlord> Did you enter account codes?
15:50:32 <Simon> no
15:50:42 <warlord> But they're not in alphabetic order?
15:50:47 <Simon> no
15:51:00 <warlord> Odd. Click on the 'account name' column.
15:51:10 <Simon> aah.
16:21:12 <warlord> okay, about time to get off for the day. later.
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16:43:01 <foo> Now that I finished taxes for 2007, I need to close the books for 2007, right? Anything else I need to do?
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18:18:30 <warlock_mza> hi
18:18:45 <warlock_mza> anyone using arch ?
18:19:00 <warlock_mza> gnucash: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/gnucash/libgncmod-gnome-utils.so: undefined symbol: g_dpgettext
18:19:04 <warlock_mza> i get that error
18:19:09 <warlock_mza> cant start up anymore
18:19:10 <warlock_mza> :-|
18:22:09 <jsled> What else cahnged? glib upgrade, perhaps?
18:22:23 <warlock_mza> yeap
18:22:29 <warlock_mza> probably ...
18:22:32 <jsled> Probably need to rebuild gnucash, then.
18:22:47 <warlock_mza> I read that other people couldnt solve rebuilding
18:22:47 <jsled> Arch is source-based, right?
18:22:50 <warlock_mza> nop
18:22:53 <warlock_mza> packet based
18:23:00 <warlock_mza> binary :-|
18:23:15 <jsled> Ah. Then maybe they have an updated package that's built correctly.
18:23:31 <warlock_mza> jsled, no :-( ... but will file a bug
18:23:41 <warlock_mza> thats the only way ?
18:23:49 <jsled> But if the package manager lets you break an existing package, then either the software is broken or the packager flubbed it up.
18:24:18 <warlock_mza> ok ... I belive its glib's problem then
18:24:27 <warlock_mza> thanks anyway :-)
18:24:33 <jsled> You could downgrade glib (or whatever package contains the library that that symbol is actaully part of; the "g_" prefix makes me thing it's glib's wrapping of gettext)
18:24:48 <jsled> Well, it's not glib's problem...
18:24:58 <warlock_mza> cant downgrade that easily in arch ...
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18:26:48 <jsled> I mean. If arch ships a gnucash package that depends against a certain version of glib, then ships an updated glib that breaks gnucash … it's Arch's fault. :)
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18:27:39 <warlock_mza> jsled, yeap ... right!
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23:02:08 <dbreiser> a script fragment from warlord, an ld wrapper from pogma, and in another 5 years I might even be interested in building a distributable mac binary
23:04:26 <jsled> heh heh. :)
23:04:57 <dbreiser> I'd respond in the mailing list, but I don't think I can be civil doing it yet
23:05:11 <jsled> can't be civil?
23:05:32 <dbreiser> I get cranked up when people think it's easy to roll a binary
23:06:10 <dbreiser> the windows port took what? 2-3 people 6 months of hard work after an initial 6 months of trying a bunch of different things?
23:06:24 <jsled> about right.
23:06:37 <jsled> I don't even know. Which says something.
23:06:58 <dbreiser> a mac port would be easier, since there's an almost native build system. But still, there are enough mac oddities to curl your hair
23:07:04 <dbreiser> or make it fall out
23:08:23 <jsled> I've seen it.
23:08:49 <dbreiser> but as my initial comment hinted, I am picking up pieces of the puzzle. I just can't integrate them quickly on my own.
23:11:43 <dbreiser> Apple's ld bugs don't help
23:12:03 <jsled> Is that "leptard" of which you speak? ;)
23:12:25 <dbreiser> seems like an apt description
23:13:18 <dbreiser> gnucash hasn't had many problems, but some packages are really hammered by Apple's changing ld 'oddities'
23:15:08 <dbreiser> and that new version (associated with that fancy mobile communicator thingee) has continued the tradition :(
23:21:32 <dbreiser> are there any experts on the general import transaction matcher still active?
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