2008-03-16 GnuCash IRC logs
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20:53:45 <ferno> good evening
20:54:06 <ferno> is anyone familiar with setting up tax tables?
20:54:40 <ferno> i seem to be missing something
20:55:24 <ferno> i have setup a gst tax table as per the gnucash wiki @ 5%
20:56:25 <ferno> when i create an invoice and select the gst tax table it somehow calculates the tax @ 3.2% and subsequently if I use the full invoice amount and select 'tax included' the tax is somehow calculated at 25%
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22:28:18 <warlord> ferno: Perhaps you're confused about TaxIncluded v. non?
22:28:41 <warlord> Can you give me an actual example of what you have in the invoice, what you expect, and what you get?
22:28:41 <ferno> i think i'm confused about the setup of the tax table
22:29:07 <ferno> i invoice for 4585 plus 5% gst
22:29:21 <warlord> So you have a SINGLE line-item of 4585?
22:29:39 <ferno> yes
22:29:47 <warlord> What's the QTY and Price columns?
22:29:57 <ferno> qty 1 price 4585
22:30:06 <warlord> Is tax-included checked?
22:30:12 <ferno> no
22:31:01 <warlord> Okay.. So a tax of 5% should be 229.25
22:31:11 <ferno> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_handle_GST_on_invoices.2C_and_claim_GST_rebates_on_purchases.3F
22:31:21 <ferno> thats the wiki instructions i tried to follow
22:31:46 <ferno> for setting up a tax table to allocate the tax automatically into accounts
22:31:53 <warlord> Sure.
22:32:18 <ferno> it worked for expenses that included gst and it calculated 5% correctly
22:32:34 <ferno> but when i went to invoice it doesn't calculate gst properly
22:33:16 <ferno> if i setup a dead simple tax table for a/r tax only without the liability accounts in the tax table it calculates correctly
22:33:17 <warlord> Customer Invoice and Vendor Bill use the exact same code.
22:33:41 <warlord> So if it works for A/P it should work for A/R
22:34:02 <warlord> Huh? What do you mean, "without the liability accounts in the tax table"?
22:36:06 <ferno> well thats where i'm confused then
22:36:48 <warlord> The account in the tax table shouldn't matter at all.
22:36:52 <ferno> i assumed setting up a tax table would create rules for taxes on a/r and then automatically account for tax when the payment is posted in liabilities:tax:payable
22:37:04 <ferno> thats the impression i get from the wiki
22:37:33 <warlord> Well, you need a different tax table for A/R and A/P, because you need to assign different accounts.
22:37:49 <warlord> But the wiki IS correct.
22:38:07 <ferno> its a little confusing
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22:38:30 <ferno> i've been using simply accounting, where the taxes are automagically posted to the correct accounts
22:38:40 <warlord> Okay....
22:38:49 <warlord> Not sure what you mean by "simply accounting".. o
22:39:02 <warlord> ..or "cally posted to the correct accounts"
22:39:23 <warlord> er, "automagically"
22:40:50 <ferno> simply accounting is a windows accounting package
22:41:07 <ferno> and it handles taxes automatically
22:41:14 <warlord> Good for it.
22:41:22 <warlord> Not sure how that applies here.
22:41:31 <warlord> Is this a GnuCash issue?
22:41:35 <ferno> yes
22:41:49 <warlord> Then what does "simply accounting" have to do with anything?
22:42:36 <ferno> i was just making conversation
22:43:02 <ferno> however the issue with gnucash is that it doesn't support taxes very well
22:43:13 <warlord> It supports it just fine in the business features.
22:43:51 <warlord> But yes, it only supports it in the Invoice/Bill system
22:44:10 <warlord> Remember, GnuCash started as a PERSONAL accounting system. The small business features were added on and are standalone.
22:44:20 <warlord> (for better or for worse)
22:44:50 <ferno> i'm gathering
22:45:05 <warlord> But plenty of people use gnucash.
22:45:18 <warlord> I just heard of a $1MM revenue company using Gnucash!
22:47:17 <warlord> So, let's figure out how you entered your tax table incorrectly..
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22:47:51 <warlord> On your line item where you have 4585.. and the 5% tax table... what's it saying for Value, Tax, and Total?
22:50:21 <ferno> i created a new table since i first asked the question and applied it to a new invoice
22:50:25 <ferno> the tax value is correct now
22:50:50 <warlord> Ah.
22:52:06 <ferno> the only entry in the tax table is now assets:a/r:gst
22:52:24 <warlord> ok
22:53:06 <ferno> it posts the tax to assets:a/r:gst and the net amount to assets:a/r:consulting income
22:54:06 <warlord> Okay. That sounds right.
22:54:40 <ferno> when i receive the payment, I need the assets:a/r:gst to be posted to my liability:tax:payable
22:54:50 <warlord> No.
22:54:50 <ferno> is there any way to do that through the tax table?
22:55:02 <warlord> When you receive the payment it goes from A/R -> Checking
22:55:26 <warlord> Invoices/Bill are "Accrual", not "Cash"
22:55:35 <warlord> You can't have it both ways at once.
22:55:48 <warlord> The tax (and income) are booked when you book the invoice, not when the payment comes in.
22:56:16 <ferno> i realize that
22:57:11 <ferno> after i receive the payment i still have 229.25 sitting in my assets:a/r:gst account
22:57:23 <warlord> So.. what's the question? You want to change the tax table account from A:A/R:GST to L:Tax:Payable?
22:57:57 <warlord> Right, and that will stay there until you forward the tax holdings to the gov't
22:58:19 <ferno> once the payment and taxes have been received its not an asset, its a liability
22:58:31 <warlord> Then why did you set it to an asset in the tax table?
22:58:54 <ferno> because its not liability until it is received.
22:59:22 <warlord> It's not an asset, either.
22:59:29 <warlord> C.F. Accrual Accounting
22:59:42 <warlord> You misconfigured your tax table.
23:01:49 <warlord> (in Accrual Accounting it IS a liability when you book the invoice, even though you haven't been paid, yet)
23:03:57 <ferno> i see
23:04:18 <warlord> So.. you didn't follow the wiki.
23:05:57 <ferno> Payments (from customers): When receiving the payment, reduce the Assets:Accounts Receivable:GST by the GST amount, and increase Liabilities:Taxes:GST by the same amount
23:06:04 <ferno> thats the instruction straight from the wiki
23:06:25 <warlord> That's if you do it by hand.
23:08:46 <warlord> You can choose to do it that way, but you need to move it from Asset to Liability by hand, manually.
23:08:53 <warlord> It's just easiler to make it a liability right away.
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23:12:12 <ferno> well thanks for your help
23:12:23 <ferno> i obviously have more reading to do..
23:13:15 <warlord> Good luck!
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