2008-01-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:27:05 <Kristoffer> Hey i have a question. Is it possible to have my stocks updated thorugh the sweden stock Index OMX?
08:27:35 <Kristoffer> Aka does it support anyhow live updating prices at my stocks via OMX?
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09:33:12 <Kristoffer> Hey i have a question. Is it possible to have my stocks updated thorugh the sweden stock Index OMX?
09:33:13 <Kristoffer> Aka does it support anyhow live updating prices at my stocks via OMX?
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10:12:16 <warlord> Kristoffer: no need to ask twice.
10:12:32 <warlord> we saw it the first time, but nobody was awake at 8:30am US/EST.
10:12:57 <warlord> Anyways... I dont know if F::Q supports that or not. Do you know of a website that provides quotes?
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10:36:35 <Kristoffer> What's quotes?
10:53:17 <Kristoffer> Warlord: Sorry, there might be others than US people who use gnucsah
11:03:02 <warlord> Kristoffer: quotes for OMX stocks.
11:03:28 <warlord> and yes, there are non-US people, but /generally/ most people in this channel who answer questions are in the US.
11:14:05 <Kristoffer> explaine the word quoets? You mean current price of stocks?
11:15:14 <warlord> yes
11:21:43 <Kristoffer> must there be any special website or just any?
11:25:08 <jsled> Kristoffer: finance::quote works by scraping content out of websites.
11:25:28 <jsled> So, no, it doesn't need to be special any more so than it needs to contain the information and be parseable.
11:27:49 <Kristoffer> ok hold on a minute
11:28:47 <warlord> and F::Q needs to know about it.
11:32:46 <Kristoffer> http://bors.www.dn.se/dn/site/stock/stocklist.page?magic=(cc%20(table%20(list%20SSELRG)))
11:32:50 <Kristoffer> thats the large cap list
11:39:54 <jsled> lol http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/10919
11:42:05 <warlord> lol
11:42:42 <jsled> Out of 438 unread programming.reddit.com items for the last few days, that's one of the only ones of merit.
11:43:16 <jsled> Well, not quite true. There were like 10 other links that were interesting.
11:43:39 <warlord> hehehe
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12:01:56 <Kristoffer_> Warlord, did the website work?
12:06:15 <warlord> Kristoffer: yes, I think something like that would work, but... I dont think F::Q has a scraper for that site.
12:06:59 <warlord> can you find quotes on, say, yahoo europe?
12:07:10 <warlord> (or one of the other sites supported by F::Q)?
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12:48:28 <Kristoffer_> Where can I see which sites are supported?
12:52:57 <warlord> run gnc-fq-check
12:54:38 <Kristoffer_> i have windows
12:56:07 <warlord> so?
12:57:04 <warlord> you could also open the security editor in gnucash and see the pulldown list
12:58:37 <Kristoffer_> Ok sorry warlord but im a complete noob at this, where do i open security editor?
12:59:36 <warlord> try the tools menu?
13:04:28 <Kristoffer_> http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=HMB.ST here i found for eg. one stockprice
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13:06:44 <warlord> Right, so quote source "yahoo" and stock ticker symbol "HMB.ST"
13:06:52 <warlord> ... and that works for me.
13:06:57 <warlord> [warlord@pgpdev src]$ /opt/gnucash-svk/bin/gnc-fq-dump yahoo HMB.ST
13:06:57 <warlord> Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
13:06:57 <warlord> symbol: HMB.ST <=== required
13:06:57 <warlord> date: 01/25/2008 <=== required
13:06:57 <warlord> currency: SEK <=== required
13:06:58 <warlord> last: 346.50 <=\
13:07:00 <warlord> nav: <=== one of these
13:07:02 <warlord> price: 346.50 <=/
13:07:04 <warlord> timezone: <=== optional
13:09:31 <Kristoffer_> Im trying to install pearl how do i add the bin directory to Path enivironment?
13:21:54 <Kristoffer_> installed it now but it doesent work, still geting to add path blabla
13:24:51 <warlord> Sorry, no idea how to do that on windows
13:27:00 <Kristoffer_> i found Finance-SE-OMX in perl package manager, can i use that somehow?
13:27:43 <warlord> i dunno
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13:33:53 <jsled> Oh. That's why my wonky fan stopped making noise. It's just not moving.
13:34:06 <jsled> Unfortunately, it's the cpu fan.
13:35:11 <jsled> Oh well. I'll be back online in a few hours. Lates. :)
13:35:49 <warlord> see ya jsled
13:35:55 <warlord> hope your cpu doesn't overheat
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14:57:51 <dsa> is the gnucash data file based on some standard, is it the invention of the gnucash project?
15:05:30 <warlord> it's gzipped xml right now
15:05:43 <warlord> but we're hoping to migrate to sqlite
15:12:09 <dsa> warlord: what are the advantages?
15:14:55 <warlord> xml is a great markup language, it's great for static data, or for interchange. but it sucks for a database.
15:19:59 <dsa> warlord: do you mean in terms of performance, coding, or both?
15:23:51 <warlord> xml isn't a database.
15:23:57 <warlord> it's not random access.
15:24:03 <warlord> i could go on and on.
15:24:09 <warlord> it's a markup language.
15:25:08 <dsa> warlord: understood. so it's mainly a performance issue.
15:26:17 <warlord> it's not just performance.
15:27:03 <warlord> There are architectural failures with xml.. e.g. you can't just save off changes to the database; you have to write out a whole new document.
15:28:35 <dsa> warlord: interesting. that makes sense. so, ideally, an application would have its own internal database structure for storing information but would use a standard format, like a standard XML schema, for interchange.
15:30:09 <warlord> yep
15:30:17 <warlord> it's a great import/export format
15:30:21 <warlord> (xml)
15:32:40 <dsa> warlord: i was just looking through iso standards and wasn't able to find an xml schema for financial information/transactions. that's surprising.
15:33:09 <warlord> afaik there is none.
15:33:20 <warlord> there's ofx, but that's not quite sufficient
15:36:12 <dsa> warlord: i see that ofx is a microsoft standard. is the problem that it is not truly open?
15:36:51 <warlord> that's one problem. another is that afaik ofx doesnt support split transactins
15:39:10 <dsa> warlord: well, that's a little bit crazy.
15:41:10 <dsa> warlord: so what do you do for a living that you are so involved in the gnucash project?
15:42:57 <warlord> i'm a s/w dev.
15:43:06 <warlord> (i write security apps)
15:44:21 <dsa> warlord: freelance?
15:49:33 <warlord> for a while, but i'm employed now
15:50:52 <dsa> warlord: what type of security applications?
15:51:01 <warlord> encryption
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16:02:08 <matthew_> having trouble with the "cash flow" report. It won't let me select my checking account.
16:04:22 <matthew_> figured it out, was an account depth problem
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16:12:07 <Kristoffer_> How do I add new perlscripts in GNUCASH? Found some i need for stocks..
16:16:13 <warlord> Umm, all i know about is the function in your start menu to add th f::q stuff.
16:17:42 <Kristoffer_> huh? explain more plz ;)
16:18:10 <warlord> look in your start menu
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16:18:36 <Lucifer> oh boy, I came here to meta-ask, and it says not to
16:18:36 <gncbot> Lucifer: Sent 6 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, and 38 minutes ago: <warlord> There's no document that tells you HOW to modify reports, per se. The reports are scheme programs. http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports
16:18:47 *** Lucifer is now known as Lucifer_arma
16:18:55 <Lucifer_arma> ah oh, I'm not the lucifer that message was meant for :/
16:19:33 <warlord> ah well
16:20:02 <Lucifer_arma> actually, looking at the time period, that may have been meant for me :)
16:20:28 <Lucifer_arma> so, I've got my own accounting program now that I have written, and I'm wanting to work on the budgeting some more, and I wanted to bounce some ideas off you guys :)
16:21:39 <Lucifer_arma> I want to define a budget in terms of a normal balance, just like accounts, but have it be user-defined. So a user could define a budget as having a normal balance of credit on a debit account if he wants
16:22:17 <Lucifer_arma> but I want it to make sense with regards to the normal balance on accounts and am having a little trouble wrapping my head around it
16:22:48 <Lucifer_arma> so, expenses are debit accounts. A budget on an expense typically means "don't exceed this balance". Does it make sense to say that an expense account balance is normally a "credit" balance?
16:22:56 <Lucifer_arma> (even though it's a debit account)
16:24:09 <Kristoffer_> where do i find this? add th f::q stuff.
16:24:32 <warlord> Kristoffer_: there's a start menu option.
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16:25:19 <warlord> Lucifer_arma: income and expense accounts are "magic" and generally reversed.
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16:25:34 <warlord> but i do have to wonder why you're writing your own accounting app..
16:26:28 <Lucifer_arma> fun? :) Because I want an accounting app in python that is theoretically easy to modify....
16:26:38 <Lucifer_arma> and I didn't find one that met that requirement :)
16:27:08 <Kristoffer_> in gnucash or what?
16:27:24 <Lucifer_arma> I'm wanting to make it so that the basic accounting equation can also be used on budgets
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16:28:27 <Lucifer_arma> but since a budget isn't real money, the enforcement can't be made. It makes sense that if you're sitting on a pile of cash, your budgeted expenses might exceed budgeted incomes
16:28:36 <Lucifer_arma> and the basic accounting equation can show that :)
16:29:07 <warlord> Kristoffer_: it should be under the gnucash menu, yes.
16:29:08 <Lucifer_arma> here's the real issue I'm trying to settle. If I define the default normal balance of a budget to match the account's normal balance, then I have to do some magic to make it work the way a default budget is expected to work
16:29:11 <warlord> (in the start menu)
16:29:39 <warlord> Lucifer_arma: chris is the budget guy, but apparently he's not around.
16:29:42 <Lucifer_arma> (this discussion might prove useful for anyone intending to expand gnucash's budgeting, too :) )
16:30:34 <warlord> okay
16:31:46 <Lucifer_arma> but if I define the normal balance of a budget to be opposite the normal balance of an account, then I have to be able to talk about a balance as "debit" or "credit", and I want to know if that makes sense :)
16:32:09 <Lucifer_arma> so, does it make sense to say "I have a credit balance of $500 on <some expense>"?
16:33:24 <warlord> um.. i think so?
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16:36:00 <Lucifer_arma> you think so as in "it's normal accounting language" or "you understand the concept"?
16:36:37 <Lucifer_arma> I'm trying to avoid having to invent new accounting language. :) I think that's the biggest criticism I can level at MS Money or Quicken, they invent language when it's convenient.
16:36:49 <Lucifer_arma> (besides the proprietary closed source criticism, of course)
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16:53:13 <jsled> Hey ... someone with the current topic in their UI ... please reset it?
16:56:10 *** warlord changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, just ask and *wait*. 2.2.3 released. <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. Channel is *publically-logged* <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>."
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16:58:24 <warlord> Lucifer_arma: I'm afraid I dont have a good answer. I understand the concept; I dont know if it'll have the right terminology.
16:58:33 <warlord> Anyways, I gotta run.
16:58:37 <Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks
16:58:39 <Lucifer_arma> have fun :)
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19:24:57 <Lucifer_arma> does gnucash ship with a file that contains sample data?
19:25:25 <jsled> sample personal finance data? :)
19:25:37 <jsled> There's a good set of template account files.
19:25:59 <jsled> And some information similar to what you're asking for in the Tutorial and Concepts Guide.
19:29:16 <Lucifer_arma> heh, I'm looking for something that contains a year's worth of sample transactions :)
19:29:42 <jsled> why?
19:29:46 <Lucifer_arma> you know, to test reports, take screenshots, etc
19:29:52 <jsled> ah.
19:30:03 <Lucifer_arma> see, I've written my own accounting program and am tryin to get out of having to make a sample data file myself
19:30:13 <Lucifer_arma> currently looking through kmymoney source for theirs :)
19:30:15 <jsled> Well, if you want to generate a reasonable file, look to the scheduled transactions to help.
19:30:27 <jsled> Just set them up to generate 365 days out into the future.
19:31:18 <Lucifer_arma> there's an idea, I could create my own simple file that contains a month's transactions and then generate a year from that
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