2008-01-17 GnuCash IRC logs

00:16:07 <warlord> anyways, bedtime/
00:16:09 <warlord> good night
00:16:11 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
00:16:13 <andrewsw> cya
00:43:35 <andrewsw> I wonder if I can make gnc:all-report-template-names return cons cells ( name . guid ) and then use a SCM_CAR/SCM_CDR in dialog-column-view.c to pick out the field I need without completely roto-tilling that C code.
00:43:59 * andrewsw finds another way to make scheme keep him from learning C
01:30:13 <jsled> nifty. http://pithy.tumblr.com/post/23941873
01:30:43 <jsled> … in that abstract “hopefully that'll become commonly available someday” way.
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06:31:42 <chemichon> hello
06:32:24 <chemichon> when I add a entry on income account, it says it was transferred from : Unbalance (maybe this is no the exact term, as my gnucash is in portuguese)
06:32:29 <chemichon> how do I work with this?
06:48:49 <chemichon> well, I changed my language to english, and it says: Imbalance
06:49:06 <chemichon> any ideas? anyone awake?
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07:35:23 <warlord> chemichon: you're not filling in the double-entry.
07:35:39 <warlord> each transaction needs a source and a destination.
07:35:56 <warlord> so you have an income account, but that money has to GO somewhere..
07:36:09 <warlord> (or, if you're looking at your bank account, it has to COME FROM somewhere)
07:49:58 <chemichon> hm... ok
07:52:10 <warlord> If you haven't read it I highly recommend you read the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide.
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09:30:52 <Pete_B> hi. does gnucash handle small business accounts well enough to produce an end-of-year report compatible with the UK tax return?
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09:37:11 <vinci> gnucash wiki is awful slow for me today?
09:41:07 <jsled> warlord was commenting on a lack of Comcast performance yesterday, but I'm not sure if that's related.
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10:36:24 <Pete_B> sorry my computer dies whilst I was away, did anyone answer my question about gnucash for UK end of year tax return?
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11:04:35 <vinci> Pete_B: havent seen anything answered after 14.37 GMT
11:05:37 <Pete_B> vinci: ok, thanks
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11:32:48 <vinci> Hi, I have a suggestion: When I start GnuCash today and create a new file it asks be for the currency first. I like to suggest that the first question is the country. GnuCash could guess that from the $LANG setting so it could have some good defaults. Actually many things can be assumed from the country (currency, tax laws,...)
11:33:24 <vinci> So GnuCash could introduce a mechanism where many more settings could be set - so next questions would be different
11:33:25 <jsled> I believe we have an RFE for that.
11:33:31 <vinci> oh
11:33:36 <jsled> Well, not for that exactly.
11:33:54 <jsled> Actually, maybe it was.
11:34:01 * vinci looks
11:36:24 <vinci> hm didnt find via gnucash country or gnucash localization
11:36:39 <vinci> maybe I should file a bug anyway?
11:38:16 <jsled> <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466644> is similar.
11:40:21 <vinci> not quite. i guess thats rather a windows bug
11:40:42 <vinci> I found that, too before
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11:52:31 <vinci> hi Jannick
11:52:52 <Jannick> heya
11:55:07 <Jannick> I am wondering how to export the accounts for manipulation in a spreadsheet. Might make the specialists yawn, but I cannot get anything.
11:55:25 <Jannick> Still working with 2.2.3 on WinXP.
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11:56:49 <jsled> Jannick: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_can_I_export_data.3F
11:56:49 <vinci> Jannick: lets see
11:57:21 <Jannick> So far I tried to use the XSL gnucash2gnumeric_06.xsl to transform the output xml-accounts. But it doesn't work: It says that there are double colons somewhere.
11:58:25 <Jannick> jsled: Right, I tried - but got stuck in transforming the xml-aoutput with the xsl-file.
11:58:51 <jsled> well, those are the options. So I guess you can fix the problem, or write something new.
11:59:02 <vinci> There is another option for qof export
11:59:11 <vinci> not sure which apps can import that
11:59:17 <jsled> Pretty much nothing
11:59:25 <jsled> It's basically an abstracted XML format.
11:59:36 <vinci> Gnumeric maybe?
11:59:49 <jsled> gnumeric cannot import QOF/QSF, no.
12:00:11 <jsled> Depending on what you want, an ad-hoc XSLT might make more sense.
12:00:15 * jsled shrugs
12:00:36 <Jannick> I want something to import to (sorry) M$ excel - and to another special software understanding csv.
12:00:42 <vinci> I look at that standard
12:00:49 <vinci> at least it IS a standard ;)
12:01:05 <jsled> Don't be sorry, Excel is a good capable program.
12:01:17 <jsled> Uh, what format is the CSV?
12:01:19 <Jannick> hihihi :-)
12:01:40 <jsled> Of course, gnumeric is a better program. ;)
12:02:53 <Jannick> CSV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values
12:03:21 <jsled> no. I know what CSV is. What are the columns of the csv?
12:04:17 <Jannick> Sorry. The columns should be the data of the bookings. Lets start with this.
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12:05:50 <Jannick> Basically I would like to export the booking data to transfer them to my tax counsellor. She uses some program which doe understand csv-files.
12:06:43 <jsled> You might have more luck preparing a report in gnucash that shows what you want, then exporting that HTML.
12:06:58 <jsled> That html/table should be importable by gnumeric, excel, &c.
12:07:05 <jsled> (similar to csv)
12:07:24 <vinci> Jannick: we definitely need some stuff like this. Also maybe ask in the german mailing list
12:07:55 <Jannick> vinci: I will drop an email to the de-list later.
12:08:34 <Jannick> jsled: Sounds like a wordaround till something "proper" is established.
12:08:44 * vinci is afk
12:09:01 <jsled> debatable.
12:09:21 <jsled> A File > Export > CSV would be nice.
12:09:23 <jsled> Sure
12:09:24 <Jannick> I am not sure whether there is a report given me the booking data
12:09:43 <jsled> But presumably that export process would need to query the user for the particluar details of the export.
12:09:45 <Jannick> That would be like heaven on earth for me.
12:09:53 <jsled> What fields, in what order, and what format.
12:10:27 <jsled> Which is simliar to the reporting...
12:10:33 <jsled> See, there's no standard "CSV" format.
12:11:06 <jsled> In fact, using "standard" financial reports (balance sheet, profit & loss, &c.) is probably the best thign to do.
12:11:27 <jsled> As accountants have a shared understanding of what those reports (should) contain, and what the semantics are.
12:11:40 <Jannick> I understand, I it said that the gnucash2gnumeric.xls derives a spreadsheet
12:12:08 <Jannick> and the different sheets show the chart of accounts, the bookings and what ever ...
12:12:24 <Jannick> and as you said this should be defined
12:16:22 <Jannick> Ok I checked, this is pretty nice if there weren't any splits.
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12:18:19 <warlord> jsled: no, comcast has nothing to do with the gnucash server. the net is up but there looks like a 400-600Kb/s output for the last few hours
12:18:23 <Jannick> On the xsl-file: http://edseek.com/archives/2005/08/18/gnucash-export-to-gnumeric-and-csv/
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12:26:29 <Jannick> I am not able to see whether the xsl-file is update - meaning that it can handle the output of GC's current version.
12:28:24 <warlord> the gnc xml hasn't changed significantly in two major releases.
12:28:53 <Jannick> Ok
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12:30:28 <Jannick> I was trying to convert a GC output with the xsl-file, but encountering problems - and here it comes - due to multiple colons.
12:31:02 <Jannick> ... seems to be my favourites!!! ;)
12:34:48 <warlord> multiple colons where?
12:39:27 <Jannick> I will generate the situation again - hang on.
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13:07:29 <teglin> im getting the following error when i try to ./configure: "checking for SLIB support... configure: error: Cannot find SLIB. Are you sure you have it installed?
13:08:11 <jsled> what distro?
13:08:36 <teglin> slackware
13:08:41 <jsled> Oh.
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13:09:36 <warlord> get a real distro
13:09:37 <jsled> There's a thread on gnucash-devel over the last couple of days about similar issues on other distros.
13:09:46 <jsled> You might want to read between the lines there.
13:10:12 <jsled> Or ape what other distro's package managers do to get guile and slib to talk to each other.
13:10:29 <jsled> Or, yeah, actually use one of those distros that does these things for you. :)
13:18:28 <Jannick_> warlord: Which file should be converted with gnucash2gnumeric.xsl - any output form GC or the (not compressed) GC file?
13:18:34 <teglin> when i try guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require 'printf)" i get ERROR: Unbound variable: require:require
13:18:58 <warlord> teglin: that implies that guile and slib aren't talking.
13:19:12 <warlord> Jannick_: i would expect the uncompressed version
13:19:25 <Jannick_> I will use M$Word for the conversion. Hope its alright.
13:19:44 <Jannick_> sorry, I meant *uncompressed*.
13:20:43 <warlord> no idea.
13:21:08 <jsled> what do you mean "use [word] for the conversion"?
13:21:31 <Jannick_> Well, is it ok that the xmlns-headlines in the GC file and the .xsl are different?
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13:22:17 <teglin> maybe im better off not managing my finances lol...i have no idea how to get slib/guile working
13:22:55 <Jannick_> jsled: Opening the .xml-file together with the xsl-file. That should work for flat (2-dim) outputs.
13:23:19 <warlord> teglin: I recommend you install Fedora or Gentoo or Ubuntu, all of which already distribute GnuCash.
13:23:36 <Jannick_> but I have now idea which program I should use for the conversion
13:24:04 <jsled> teglin: not to pile on, but I am curious. Why slackware?
13:24:23 <warlord> Jannick_: I think you just need to run xsltprc..
13:24:27 <Jannick_> but after thinking a bit: If the xsl produces some spreadsheet with different sheets then M$ Word won't be able to manage.
13:24:33 <warlord> but I've never used it, so I dont know.
13:25:01 <jsled> why word?
13:25:29 <jsled> Oh, you're trying to use Word to apply the XSLT to the gnucash xml file?
13:26:01 <Jannick_> Right, sorry I am really new to all this!
13:26:02 <jsled> Oh man, I'd be surprised if that works … hell, I'd be surprised if a space-time vortex doesn't open up and engulf your computer! :)
13:27:10 * vinci thinks xml is no good data format, really
13:27:12 <Jannick_> Outch, my eye - it just worked and came right out of the screen! ;)
13:27:26 <vinci> Jannick_: congrats
13:30:50 <warlord> vinci: that's why some of us really want to migrate to SQLite.
13:32:35 <jsled> vinci: what would you recommend?
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14:28:40 <warlord> GRR.. I hate when people just try to suck down everything off the web site..
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14:32:52 <warlord> Okay. Blocked.
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15:02:05 <Paco-Paco> that seems to be popular
15:02:15 <Paco-Paco> there's some piece of Windows software that lets people slurp entire web sites
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15:02:27 <elb> that actually sees use
15:04:04 <warlord> Well, they're blocked now.
15:10:29 <nbinont> anyone know where setenv is defined for windows?
15:11:50 <warlord> nbinont: use g_setenv()
15:12:09 <nbinont> thanks
15:13:22 <Jannick_> warlord: Thanx for the tip to use xsltproc.
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15:15:58 <warlord> welcome
15:16:05 <warlord> Jannick_: works better?
15:16:27 <warlord> cool. you're welcome.
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16:33:47 <Pitmaster> Hi there
16:34:10 <jsled> hello
16:34:36 <Pitmaster> I want to import the Dutch accountsoftwarefiles from Exact software into GnuCash, is this possible?
16:34:39 <Pitmaster> How?
16:35:19 <jsled> Not directly. Your best bet, I'd guess, is to try to find some way to get the Exact data into QIF, then import it into gnucash.
16:36:10 <Pitmaster> Oke, thank's. If that's not working better make a new set i guess?
16:36:23 <jsled> I guess so.
16:36:41 <Pitmaster> Thank's Happy Cashing.........
16:36:53 <jsled> :)
16:36:55 <Pitmaster> Bye
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16:57:48 <chemichon> hello
16:58:37 <chemichon> when I enter money into an income account, should I use debit or credit?
17:01:49 <warlord> chemichon: It's much easier to think about if you think about it from your Asset and Liability accounts instead of from your Income/Expense accounts.
17:02:02 <warlord> So the txn is Income -> Asset..
17:02:03 <chemichon> hi warlord
17:02:42 <chemichon> what I am trying to put into gnucash is: Income from my services -> Asset at bank account
17:03:43 <chemichon> on the txn that I create for entering the earnings for my services, into income account, should I use debit or credit?
17:04:00 <warlord> chemichon: please re-read what I just said.
17:04:17 <warlord> in this case you debit asset and credit income.
17:04:28 <warlord> Income and Expense accounts are "magic"
17:04:48 <chemichon> ok
17:05:08 <chemichon> but... when I first enter money into my income account, it says imbalance, right?
17:06:01 <chemichon> after I credit this very money from my income account as a debit on my asset account, I still have this value in the imbalance account. should not it disappear?
17:07:37 <warlord> chemichon: your mistake is entering money into your income account.
17:07:39 <warlord> dont do that.
17:07:43 <warlord> open your asset account.
17:08:01 <warlord> then use your "income" account as the "transfer account" entry for your transaction
17:08:14 <chemichon> hmmm
17:08:15 <chemichon> ok
17:08:40 <warlord> LIke I said... It's much easier to think about from the Asset and Liability account view.
17:08:42 <chemichon> I see it, I am assuming my wallet (where money first lands) is the incoming account.
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17:09:02 <chemichon> so I must create a wallet account, then xfer things into bank, right?
17:09:07 <warlord> That's fine, that would be Assets:Current Assets:Cash In Wallet
17:09:27 <warlord> well, if you deposit cash that's in your wallet, sure.
17:09:35 <jsled> But, that begs the question of how it got into your wallet.
17:09:39 <warlord> But where does the money in your wallet come from?
17:09:48 <jsled> Income -> Wallet. Wallet -> Asset.
17:09:48 <jsled> or
17:09:51 <jsled> Income -> Asset
17:10:01 <chemichon> I should not bother with income, right?
17:10:21 <jsled> No no. You *must* bother with Income.
17:10:30 <chemichon> just create a deposit on my wallet and point it from income?
17:10:35 <chemichon> my head aches...
17:10:44 <warlord> chemichon: Go read the Tutorial.
17:10:48 <chemichon> I read
17:10:51 <jsled> chemichon: are you familiar with the idea of "sources" and "sinks"?
17:10:54 <chemichon> yes
17:11:05 <jsled> Income and Equity are Sources. Expenses is a Sink.
17:11:11 <chemichon> ok, I got that
17:11:37 <jsled> So, money "appears" on the books from Income -> Assets. Then, when you spend it, it flows from Assets -> Expenses, and is sunk.
17:12:17 <jsled> And everything balances. And puppies bark rainbows.
17:13:11 <chemichon> ok, so I dont bother with income, as if I create a txn in my wallet saying that its from income, I wont have imbalance?
17:13:53 <jsled> Ah, yeah rigth. Don't bother opening the Income account. But *do* bother – in the Asset account's register – to indicate that its from Income.
17:14:14 <chemichon> ok.
17:14:40 <chemichon> when I enter money into my wallet account, should it enter as credit, or debit?
17:15:36 <jsled> Oh, I can never remember. Enter it into the column that makes the balance go up. :)
17:15:52 <chemichon> ok
17:15:57 <jsled> If you open the wallet register, the columns should say "deposit" and "withdrawl", right?
17:16:07 * jsled might be mis-remembering
17:16:40 <jsled> No. "Increase" and "Decrease", they say.
17:17:20 <jsled> Well, "Increase" and "Decrease" for a generic type=Assets account.
17:17:33 <jsled> for type=Cash, it's actually "Receive" and "Spend".
17:18:46 <chemichon> says debit/credit
17:19:25 <chemichon> can I reverse the transaction orders? latest txn at the top?
17:19:47 <jsled> Hmmm. What's your Edit > Preferences > [tab:]Accounts > [section:]Labels setting?
17:20:12 <jsled> Uh, no, apparently.
17:20:50 <chemichon> jsled: formal
17:20:58 <jsled> Oh. Well, that's why.
17:21:01 <jsled> Turn that off. :)
17:21:36 <chemichon> ok
17:21:58 <chemichon> clearer now
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17:39:36 <chemichon> would it be possible to at least have the txn entry line on the top?
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18:02:11 <jsled> no, it's not.
18:03:16 <chemichon> that bad, I am entrying data from today to past
18:03:23 <chemichon> are you an accountant?
18:03:28 <jsled> NO.
18:03:34 <jsled> (whoops, sorry.)
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18:03:53 <jsled> What aspect of it is bad?
18:03:59 <chemichon> do you work on gnucash code?
18:04:04 <jsled> sometimes.
18:04:13 <chemichon> bad, being an accountant?
18:04:26 <jsled> No. you said "<chemichon> that bad, I am entrying data from today to past"
18:04:51 <chemichon> ahhh :)
18:05:06 <chemichon> I have to scroll up to see last data I entered
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18:05:34 <jsled> Ah. I see. That could be annoying.
18:05:47 <chemichon> indeed
18:06:14 <jsled> Why do you need to reference the last data you entered?
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18:06:32 <chemichon> the most recent data is more consistent
18:06:45 <chemichon> less archeological...
18:09:40 <chemichon> are there pro accountants using gnucash?
18:11:00 <warlord> why not enter it chronologically?
18:11:07 <warlord> anyways, gotta run
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18:11:46 <jsled> Yeah, I still don't quite get it. Aren't you entering data from receipts or something? Or...?
18:14:55 <chemichon> I am trying to do a business accounting
18:15:03 <chemichon> but there are some papers left
18:15:23 <chemichon> fortunately, the double entry system might help me a bit
18:15:58 <chemichon> as, recent data is more complete, I am starting with the easiest part, while I get acquainted with gnucash
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18:29:40 <Mrdini> heya all
18:30:03 <chemichon> jsled: I find the way split transaction is being shown is a bit confusing
18:30:03 <Mrdini> having a bit of trouble with an unit trust a.k.a. mutual fund
18:30:04 <chemichon> heya
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18:30:17 <Mrdini> how do I check finance::quote's able to retrieve it?
18:30:22 <chemichon> Mrdini: send me your assets and be happy :) no more trouble
18:30:36 <Mrdini> chemi, hah :P
18:33:18 <chemichon> I am newbie, cant help much
18:34:14 <Mrdini> chemi, heh, just putting my problem out there for others to answer
18:34:18 <Mrdini> what's your issue?
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18:38:14 <chemichon> just climbing the learning curve
18:46:21 <jsled> Mrdini: gnc-fq-dump is useful.
18:46:41 <jsled> chemichon: being shown where? What's confusing about it?
18:51:58 <Mrdini> jsled, don't have that (not sure why)
18:52:24 <Mrdini> looking in packages list again
18:52:28 <jsled> uh, what version of gnucash?
18:53:09 <Mrdini> 2.2.2
18:53:44 <Mrdini> the problem is I don't know _what_ symbol to enter :P
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18:54:08 <Mrdini> http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gb0006664683.l and http://www.trustnet.com/ut/funds/?fund=1318 (same unit trust)
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19:05:43 * Mrdini coughs discreetly in the direction of jsled - hmmm?
19:06:14 <jsled> do you have gnc-fq-helper?
19:06:31 <jsled> I'd hope so, since that's the app gnucash uses to communicate with F::Q.
19:06:42 <jsled> But, I have no idea what symbol you should use.
19:06:49 <Mrdini> oooohh, "gnc"
19:07:00 * Mrdini thought you were using that as a shorthand :P
19:07:06 <Mrdini> for "gnucash-"
19:07:22 <jsled> Oh. We do, but I'm not here.
19:07:33 <jsled> Or, that is. We do, which is why I'm using it here.
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19:08:09 <jsled> (sorry. phone call.)(
19:08:27 <Mrdini> s'ok, will play with gnc-fq-* and see
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19:24:04 <Mrdini> hmm, ok, I figured out the right code BUT the date & currency's missing :/
19:24:32 <Mrdini> $ gnc-fq-dump yahoo_europe "gb0006664683.l" <----
19:38:57 <chemichon> bye!
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20:28:13 <nbinont> I'm trying to figure out how/when pkg-config is used. (and just generally what it does) Is anyone knowledgeable on this subject?
20:31:04 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
20:31:18 <warlord> it's used to figure out how to compile against (and link to) various libraries.
20:31:27 <warlord> it stands for "package configuration"
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20:33:03 <nbinont> I'm trying to build gda-dev2 on windows and I'm not quite sure if libgda uses pkg-lib.
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20:35:07 <nbinont> does a project need to do something to work with pkg-lib or does it "just work"?
20:36:13 <warlord> A package needs to do something, but libgda-3.0 is the pkg-config name
20:36:32 <warlord> Granted, it's possible that Phil didn't add the appropriate configure glue.
20:37:43 <nbinont> thanks - makes more sense now
20:37:57 <nbinont> how would one find the pkg-config name?
20:38:04 <nbinont> (in general)
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20:42:08 <nbinont> ah..look in lib\pkgconfig got it
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21:24:17 <BlackBsd> where is a link to the docs that would tell you how to set up an auto loan account or an home purchase?
21:24:31 <BlackBsd> i have seen this somewhere, but i am forgetting..
21:28:21 <jsled> http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_loans.html
21:33:01 <warlord> nbinont: pkg-config --list-all
21:37:49 <nbinont> thanks
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21:46:01 <warlord> Grr... How can I implement CONTAINING_RECORD() for C++ on Linux/gcc?
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22:34:36 <warlord> Ahh, figured it out.
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