2008-01-16 GnuCash IRC logs

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13:23:07 <chemichon> yo
13:23:40 <chemichon> I cant delete entries in my accounts, is this normal?
13:24:32 <warlord> depends on which items you're trying to delete..
13:25:25 <chemichon> I am trying to delete the whole line
13:25:51 <chemichon> or, the whole transaction
13:26:54 <warlord> and what happens when you try to delete it?
13:27:11 <chemichon> I press delete, or click on the trash can, nothing happens
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13:29:00 <warlord> What version of gnucash? What OS/Distro?
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13:55:50 <chemichon> sorry, I had a phone call
13:56:05 <chemichon> windows xp, gnuicash 2.2.3 downloaded yesterday
13:57:27 <chemichon> warlord: nothing happens when I try to delete it...
13:57:33 <chemichon> not even an error message
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13:58:36 <warlord> So you select a transaction... What happens if you use the right-click context menu?
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14:00:39 <chemichon> shows me the option to delete, I click on delete and nothing happens
14:03:06 <warlord> And you're left-clicking on a transaction first?
14:09:29 <warlord> When I try (on LInux) it pops up a dialog asking if I really want to delete.
14:09:44 <warlord> You could try Actions -> Reset Warnings.
14:09:53 <warlord> (in case you tried it once and told it to cancel)
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14:49:12 <vinci> Hi, for german users - the skr03 and skr04 descriptions are not very meaningful yet. I am working on nice descriptions
14:50:37 <vinci> like some is described here in german http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontenrahmen
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15:06:01 <andi5> warlord: looking at r16868, is make still capable to create a POTFILES.in file after `make distclean`? ... i mean po/POTFILES.in is in DISTCLEANFILES and `test -w` checks for existence
15:07:00 <warlord> vinci: you should work with R0lf on it.
15:07:38 <warlord> Hmm.. I suppose I could do 'test -w' against $(srcdir)
15:07:59 <andi5> or $(srcdir)/po?
15:08:10 <andi5> well... does not matter :)
15:08:16 <warlord> either way.
15:08:19 <chemichon> warlord: when I enabled the warnings, it deleted.
15:08:24 <chemichon> seems to be a bug
15:08:24 <warlord> $(srcdir)/po would be better.
15:08:37 <jsled> Yeah, I think I filed that bug.
15:08:53 <warlord> jsled: filed? or fixed?
15:08:57 <jsled> filed.
15:09:02 <andi5> what is it about?
15:09:03 <jsled> It's quite awesome.
15:09:18 <jsled> "remember that I told you to never let me delete transactions, and don't ask me again." :)
15:09:32 <andi5> well... what to do about?
15:09:35 <andi5> ask once again? ;-)
15:10:12 <jsled> Maybe put something in the status bra?
15:10:19 <jsled> Or, better yet, the status bar.
15:10:34 * andi5 thought in terms of wonder bars already
15:11:41 <chemichon> tnx for help! bye
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15:12:17 <vinci> warlord: ack
15:13:00 <jsled> right: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473315
15:15:53 <warlord> At least I thought of that as an answer and was able to correct the problem.
15:17:25 <R0lf> vinci: let me know what changes you would like to make
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15:18:30 <vinci> R0lf: one moment
15:18:35 <R0lf> do you know what to work with svn and diff?
15:18:52 <vinci> phone
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15:47:44 <vinci> ok R0lf - I think the descriptions like beta version are not so good.
15:47:54 <vinci> Also they dont really tell what it is
15:48:20 <vinci> I've read that SKR04 is what business starters should use in germany-.
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15:49:22 <vinci> hey and btw. 2.23 still has 16% for Ust not 19%
15:49:34 <R0lf> I know
15:49:35 <warlord> 2.23? Do you mean 2.2.3?
15:49:46 <warlord> 2.23 is still 21 releases away
15:49:56 <R0lf> SKR04 is for 2005
15:50:16 <vinci> 2.2.3 yes
15:50:19 <R0lf> To tell you the truth, I have not managed to really do my accounting with gnucash, yet
15:50:27 <vinci> I do
15:50:36 <R0lf> EÜR?
15:50:42 <R0lf> oder Bilanzierung?
15:50:48 <vinci> EÜR
15:50:54 <R0lf> Wow, interesting
15:51:05 <vinci> I have used commercial app before
15:51:08 <R0lf> How do you deal with UStVa?
15:51:13 <R0lf> I have not
15:51:16 <vinci> but they ceased product
15:51:25 <R0lf> I am thinking of using commercial app first
15:51:30 <vinci> R0lf: I havent so far. I want this year
15:51:36 <vinci> R0lf: dont do ti ;)
15:51:50 <R0lf> Well, I spent too much time with gnucash
15:51:53 <vinci> Buhgl data had t@x 2006
15:51:58 <R0lf> And I have nothing to show for it
15:52:00 <vinci> and I did all my stuff in there
15:52:11 <vinci> and then they didnt bring out new version
15:52:15 <R0lf> Are you already using gnucash or not?
15:52:28 <R0lf> I am considering Lexware Buchhalter
15:52:28 <vinci> whcih ment I could do my taxes last year with the app
15:52:34 <R0lf> My brother swears by it
15:52:37 <vinci> R0lf: I sue it since 3 years
15:52:42 <vinci> use
15:52:45 <R0lf> Buchhalter?
15:52:57 <vinci> no ;)
15:53:02 <R0lf> OK
15:53:02 <vinci> small business
15:53:18 <vinci> But the defaults are not nice
15:53:23 <R0lf> Have you done any meaningful EÜR accounting in gnucash, yet?
15:53:29 <vinci> I would like to have a localized wizard
15:53:40 <vinci> R0lf: I hope so
15:53:48 <R0lf> Well, unfortunately, the devs have their own agenda
15:53:53 <vinci> I would love to be able to pay somebody to look at it
15:54:06 <R0lf> And there is no German dev who uses the software for business accounting
15:54:18 <R0lf> Lots of people have offered money
15:54:28 <vinci> R0lf: well when one can point to some bugs I am sure things will be fixed
15:54:39 <R0lf> The core devs weren't too interested in that
15:54:48 <R0lf> They all have their income from other sources
15:54:58 <R0lf> It really is hard to move gnucash in the needed direction
15:55:15 <R0lf> If it ever moved in that direction, gnucash could indeed become very powerful
15:55:32 <vinci> R0lf: btw. I want to offer some service for handling customers -> money -> devs as a business
15:55:36 <vinci> for open source
15:55:42 <R0lf> gnucash is programmed in some "obscure" programming languages which makes it hard for interested, new devs to join
15:55:50 <vinci> until now I have offered wikis as a service
15:55:52 <vinci> only
15:56:02 <vinci> Scheme is not osbcure!
15:56:05 <vinci> ;-)
15:56:06 <R0lf> vinci: you know about the new service from the Leipzig uni?
15:56:11 <vinci> yeah
15:56:16 <vinci> thats not what I want
15:56:23 <vinci> I have posted that link to german ml
15:56:26 <vinci> ;)
15:56:37 <vinci> I want to do it more personally
15:56:48 <R0lf> I also found it strange that so far there is no good bounty site
15:56:49 <vinci> I think I have a better idea oif how open source works
15:57:04 <R0lf> well, the site seemed to be set up quite well
15:57:10 <R0lf> better than the stuff I had seen so far
15:57:14 <vinci> R0lf: I think this doesnt have to be done by the projects itself
15:57:19 <R0lf> but I am not sure it is picking up speed
15:57:29 <R0lf> btw, no need to address me personally
15:57:40 <R0lf> we are the only two ppl talking ;-)
15:57:50 <vinci> I think generally there is a lack of communciation between users and developers
15:57:58 <R0lf> hm
15:58:01 <vinci> haha
15:58:08 <R0lf> that is a gross overstatement
15:58:23 <vinci> generally this open source business model has some flaws
15:58:37 <R0lf> there is no "business model"
15:58:37 <vinci> like: people like to pay money but they dont find a way to make this work
15:59:00 <vinci> R0lf: it is - but GnuCash is not one company
15:59:05 <vinci> not like OO.org
15:59:09 <vinci> and Sun
15:59:15 <R0lf> yes, a good bounty system (that everyone knows about) would help devs and users alike
15:59:18 <vinci> theoretically there could be
15:59:36 <R0lf> a business model is for a company
15:59:50 <R0lf> An individual dev can have a strategy and perhaps a business model
15:59:58 <R0lf> But gnucash does not do business
16:00:10 <R0lf> But btt
16:00:20 <R0lf> what is it that you want improved?
16:00:24 <vinci> What I would rather like to offer is to collect wishes and talk to the devs and then I will keep some amount. I think if people really get what they want that might make sense. I am also not thinking only about gnucash
16:00:36 <vinci> but every oss project
16:00:56 <R0lf> thinking is nice
16:01:02 <R0lf> "doing is where the money is"
16:01:07 <vinci> R0lf: me? I would like mroe help in doing the right thing with taxes ;)
16:01:14 <vinci> I always fear i do wrong
16:01:16 <vinci> ;-)
16:01:24 <R0lf> you said what would like to do
16:01:32 <R0lf> Tell me more what you have already done
16:01:39 <R0lf> Have you looked at the bug tracker?
16:01:44 <R0lf> Have you looked at the code?
16:01:46 <vinci> What i have done? Where?
16:01:54 <R0lf> Have you done some accounting with gnucash?
16:01:55 <vinci> I have worked on some translations
16:02:01 <vinci> I also package gnucash in conary
16:02:04 <R0lf> I am talking "gnucash arena"
16:02:06 <vinci> for foresight linux
16:02:20 <vinci> so I compile every once in a while
16:02:26 <vinci> including the supporting libs
16:02:32 <R0lf> nice
16:02:49 <R0lf> bts? code? real accounting?
16:03:02 <vinci> ?
16:03:07 <vinci> bts?
16:03:12 <R0lf> The three questions for lines earlier
16:03:16 <R0lf> bug tracking system
16:03:31 <vinci> I have filed some bugs also
16:03:32 <R0lf> I think you are still very early at the learning curve with gnucash
16:03:39 <vinci> only few
16:03:40 <R0lf> That is not to devalue what you say
16:03:59 <R0lf> But gnucash is a bitch to get a good grip IMHO
16:04:01 <vinci> I know how translations work
16:04:06 <vinci> well
16:04:15 <vinci> I think Scheme makes it easy to contribute
16:04:25 <R0lf> Unless you have that it is difficult to understand if gnucash can fit your needs or can be made to
16:04:26 <vinci> But I havent done anything with it yet
16:04:33 <R0lf> I still don't got that grip, I think
16:04:43 <vinci> R0lf: right now it does a good job
16:04:52 <vinci> I also think german community is exciting
16:04:54 <R0lf> But I am slowly coming to the conclusion that it might not be
16:05:02 <R0lf> BTW, no need R0lf'ing me
16:05:06 <vinci> We have a local Linux intiitative in my home town
16:05:27 <vinci> and we want to invite Christian soon to give a talk
16:05:33 <vinci> about Gnucash
16:05:47 <vinci> hopefully Sun will also give atalk about oo.org
16:05:55 <R0lf> I am glad you think scheme makes it easy to contribute, because it seems that it is keeping one or the other new dev away who is familiar with a different language
16:06:02 <R0lf> Have you programmed in scheme
16:06:02 <vinci> I think GnuCash has a good potential
16:06:03 <R0lf> ?
16:06:12 <vinci> no
16:06:15 <vinci> But I now its good
16:06:20 <vinci> ;-)
16:06:27 <R0lf> do you know diff?
16:06:34 <vinci> sure
16:06:46 <vinci> I need to patch software often
16:06:55 <R0lf> OK, I think the best is you sending your changes to the bts
16:07:00 <R0lf> "svn diff"
16:07:22 <R0lf> I can commit the stuff for skr04 and skr03
16:07:38 <R0lf> for changes to the real code, I am sure that others will apply them quickly
16:07:40 <vinci> R0lf: does that include the initial wizard?
16:07:51 <R0lf> PLEASE stop R0lf'ing me
16:07:55 <vinci> What I like to be changed is the descriptions
16:08:05 <vinci> i cant help it
16:08:07 <R0lf> If you can program the initial wizard, go right ahead
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16:08:25 <R0lf> vinci: send me a diff
16:08:26 <vinci> well I know where it should be
16:09:04 <R0lf> the state of affairs with the devs is that "you should do it this way" is absolutely pointless and I basically agree
16:09:14 <R0lf> If you want something changed, patches are welcome
16:09:22 <vinci> sure
16:09:32 <vinci> my wiki where I am working on is here http://nonolet.wikiinfo.org/
16:09:53 <vinci> What I also think makes sense is that the floss financial apps work together on documentation
16:10:06 <vinci> because explaining financial stuff should be non app centric
16:10:13 <R0lf> I guess it would be better to use the official wiki
16:10:16 <vinci> like LxOffice also does SKr04
16:10:27 <vinci> R0lf: there is no offical combined wiki
16:10:28 <R0lf> then you have real collaboration
16:10:32 <R0lf> sure
16:10:38 <vinci> My wiki is for all apps but in german
16:10:48 <vinci> I havent done a lot the last months
16:11:05 <vinci> But I like to document some stuff and helpo make gnucash better and nicer
16:11:59 <R0lf> The stuff I have learned about gnucash and German EUR is at http://linuxwiki.de/GnuCash/EuerGc
16:12:16 <R0lf> But there was some effort to migrate that wiki content to wiki.gnucash.org
16:12:27 <R0lf> you should put your stuff in one of those two
16:14:12 <vinci> R0lf: I think there could be a simplified EÜR also?
16:15:20 <R0lf> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473506 has a list of things that I thought were relevant for gnucash in a german business setting.
16:15:44 <R0lf> But as I said, I have still not fully understood how gnucash could be used for business and what is really lacking
16:16:18 <vinci> R0lf: what got you into GnuCash?
16:17:07 <R0lf> well, I gues the same thing as you
16:17:20 <R0lf> the only viable financial software on Linux
16:17:30 <vinci> btw. I dont think such a meta bug is helpful. I would rather put his all in one wiki page. But dont mind - I think I will do some research
16:17:49 <R0lf> It only took me some time to realize that it won't be for German business until quite some time passes
16:18:06 <R0lf> two of the biggest drawbacks which make it almost unusable IMHO
16:18:07 <R0lf> 1)
16:18:25 <R0lf> 1) accounts are not accessible by account number
16:18:46 <vinci> well if you read the list you see a lot people use it already
16:18:52 <vinci> gnucash-de
16:19:02 <R0lf> 2) no concept of a year, a month or any kind of time period
16:19:20 <R0lf> Then there are the nice to haves, like automatic split transactions, etc.
16:19:36 <vinci> hm
16:19:38 <R0lf> I have yet to find a single person
16:19:45 <R0lf> Maybe fell uses it
16:19:57 <R0lf> But I don't think he does his taxes with it
16:20:01 <vinci> I like to have a #gnucash-de channel soon. I think there would be some people interested.
16:20:03 <R0lf> He uses it for inventory
16:20:11 <vinci> Maybe soem dev can create that
16:20:18 <R0lf> vinci: You think too much about what would be nice to have
16:20:25 <vinci> what else?
16:20:56 <vinci> german chat would help a lot I guess
16:21:20 <R0lf> there you go
16:21:25 <R0lf> got your channel
16:21:30 <R0lf> what use is it?
16:21:38 <vinci> R0lf: well temporarily
16:21:49 <vinci> that not registered
16:21:58 <vinci> I know how to create...
16:22:05 <R0lf> It is as registered as any other channel
16:22:10 <R0lf> I am running out of time
16:22:11 <vinci> nope
16:22:19 <R0lf> Send your patches
16:22:32 <R0lf> Any further chat is a waste of both our times, I would say
16:22:41 <R0lf> "doing it is where the money is"
16:22:54 <R0lf> Sorry, don't mean to be harsh, but this is leading nowhere
16:23:14 <vinci> plonk
16:23:17 <R0lf> 1) bts 2) code 3) do some real work in gnucash
16:23:29 <R0lf> OK, good night to you to
16:23:41 <R0lf> OMG, another half hour down the drain
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17:38:07 <warlord> Wow, ComCrap is Craptastic today!
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18:09:47 <Jannick> Hi, thats me again.
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18:12:33 <Jannick> I think the default date in the customer report (given as '%B %e, %Y') is meant to be '%B %d, %Y'. I am not sure whether there are other default dates to be checked.
18:13:14 <warlord> Nope, it's meant to be %e
18:13:21 <warlord> %e Like %d, the day of the month as a decimal number, but a leading
18:13:22 <warlord> zero is replaced by a space. (SU)
18:13:58 <warlord> So it would be, e.g. "January 1, 2008", not "January 01, 2008"
18:16:06 <Jannick> Hi warlord, sounds interesting! In my version (2.2.3., WinXP, german version) the %e default gives me "Januar , 2008" - so no day.
18:16:29 <warlord> Oh, that's probably just a bug in the win32 strftime implementation.
18:16:40 <andrewsw-afk> there is a bug for %e and %_d in windows. It actually crashes on some windows.
18:16:44 <warlord> file a bug report so andi5 sees it.
18:16:52 <warlord> %_d?
18:17:01 <andrewsw-afk> space padded %d.
18:17:07 <andrewsw-afk> also fails.
18:17:09 <warlord> never heard of that.
18:17:19 <andrewsw-afk> look for a bug with date->string in the title.
18:18:47 <andrewsw-afk> 507865
18:19:10 <warlord> Yeah, I found it.
18:19:29 *** andrewsw-afk is now known as andrewsw-in-class
18:20:58 <Jannick> Ok, thanx guys, it seems to me that you are going to take care of that. Thanx again! I'm off again. Night!
18:21:01 <andrewsw-in-class> %e == %_d
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18:21:46 <warlord> well, "take care of it" is.... still up in the air.
18:22:10 <warlord> we certainly know about it.
18:22:17 <warlord> But honestly it sounds like a M$ bug
18:23:40 <andrewsw-in-class> andi5 is on it. Otherwise I'd have patched it to %d to prevent the crash.
18:24:14 <Jannick> Ok, %d works with my system.
18:24:34 <Jannick> It might be ok to change the default to %d?
18:26:19 <warlord> No
18:26:45 <Jannick> --- just an idea.
18:26:57 <warlord> Sure, but it's only broken on win32.. so we should change that.
18:27:00 <warlord> we fix that.
18:27:06 <warlord> not break everyone else.
18:27:24 <Jannick> ;)
18:27:36 <Jannick> Good to hear.
18:27:51 <Jannick> I need to go to bed now. Good night.
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18:28:02 <andrewsw-in-class> patch Makefile to sed s/%e/%d/ on win?
18:29:18 <warlord> heh
18:29:58 <warlord> That's certainly one workaround, but I'd only do that in "make dist" because otherwise a win32 dev would commit the change back.
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18:36:51 <andrewsw-in-class> bleh. java class sucks.
18:37:31 <jsled> public class Sucks { … } ?
18:37:46 <andrewsw-in-class> heh heh
18:37:57 <andrewsw-in-class> we're learning how to make a .jar file! whoopee...
18:38:39 <warlord> Heheh
18:38:54 <jsled> wow.
18:39:10 <andrewsw-in-class> thrilling, to say the least.
18:39:53 <warlord> andrewsw-in-class: FYI, have you looked at the gnc:make-report call in ./src/report/report-gnome/dialog-column-view.c ??
18:40:28 <andrewsw-in-class> not yet, but it's on my list.
18:41:24 <warlord> ok.
18:42:53 <andrewsw-in-class> hmmm... that could be tricky.
18:44:40 <warlord> hehe...
18:44:53 <andrewsw-in-class> there's always the possibility that it will "just work"... ;)
18:49:46 <andrewsw-in-class> looks like I"ll have to map names -> guid. That's already done in scheme, so maybe it won't be that bad.
18:50:08 <warlord> heh
18:50:31 <andrewsw-in-class> is that the "he's got no idea how complicated that is" heh?
18:52:42 <andrewsw-in-class> my professor just tried to jar up how whole c: drive...
18:52:49 <andrewsw-in-class> his whole, that is.
18:55:55 <warlord> hahahahaha
18:56:16 <warlord> (no, it's a "it wont be that bad" response "heh", as... underestimating the difficulty)
18:56:49 <andrewsw-in-class> that's what I'm afraid of. But it looks like most of it is calling back into scheme.
18:57:10 <andrewsw-in-class> So it's really a matter of adding that one more (heh) field into the c side and sending it back.
18:57:46 <andrewsw-in-class> Hopefully I can spend some time MLK day and finish that up. Over this weekend somehow I should find time.
18:59:36 <warlord> it MAY just work.
19:00:40 <andrewsw-in-class> nah. template_name = scm_list_ref(r->available_list,...) will return a name, i need that to return a guid.
19:03:04 <warlord> okay...
19:03:16 <warlord> But of course the menu needs to display a name.. ;)
19:04:05 <andrewsw-in-class> yep. And I've got to tie those display names back to the guid
19:05:18 <andrewsw-in-class> we appear to just be referencing in the list of names by index. I could use the same index on both lists probably. might not be that bad
19:09:14 <andrewsw-in-class> I think I see it.
19:09:15 <warlord> Okay..
19:09:15 <andrewsw-in-class> weee...
19:09:19 <andrewsw-in-class> class is over, later
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21:50:41 <dschnell289> gncbot - are you real?
21:50:41 <gncbot> dschnell289: Error: "-" is not a valid command.
21:51:02 <dschnell289> gncbot are you real?
21:51:02 <gncbot> dschnell289: Error: "are" is not a valid command.
21:54:02 *** jsled sets mode: +o gncbot
21:54:23 <jsled> @op benoitg
21:54:24 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
21:55:36 <jsled> dschnell289: see <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Windows_Vista_Problems>.
21:56:06 <dschnell289> thank you
21:57:48 <dschnell289> seems to be for a different problem. is that the only known problem?
21:58:29 <jsled> there's a bunch of other stuff on that page. I believe there are other bugs in bugzilla, and there's been other discussion on the gnucash-devel and gnucash-user mailing lists.
21:59:19 <jsled> I'm not very familiar with the windows build or issues, but that error does ring a bell.
21:59:28 <jsled> Have you tried 2.2.3?
21:59:35 <dschnell289> yes, tried it first
21:59:46 <jsled> Okay, just making sure.
21:59:52 <dschnell289> ;)
22:02:47 <dschnell289> trying one more time with clean install...
22:03:05 <dschnell289> the first time I installed it it hung at the very last stage.
22:03:38 <dschnell289> wish there was a linux version of AutoCAD and Photoshop (gimp doesn't always cut it)
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23:21:36 <dogg> Hi I'm new to gnucash. I just compiled 2.2.3 for the first time in Ubuntu. I'm not seeing all the import options that i see in windows. In particular I want to run the OFS/QFS import, but all I see in my linux-built version is QIF and logs. Is there a simple reason for this?
23:22:33 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
23:22:41 <jsled> dogg: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2
23:22:46 <warlord> you don't have libofx and didn't ./configure --enable-ofx ?
23:22:55 <dogg> thanks that explains
23:31:13 *** andrewsw-afk is now known as andrewsw
23:40:12 <andrewsw> well, at least dialog-column-view.c make-report isn't a crasher :)
23:40:22 <andrewsw> it just does... well, nothing.
23:40:58 <warlord> I suppose that's better than crashing.
23:41:10 <andrewsw> I'd say.
23:41:25 <andrewsw> Well. the list is getting shorter anyway.
23:41:45 <andrewsw> I'm sorry that I didn't fully understand the ramifications, but at least it wasn't a complete disaster.
23:42:35 <warlord> It's also why we did it in trunk and not 2.2
23:43:04 <andrewsw> oh absolutely! If I ever gave the impression I wanted to do it in 2.2, I'm sorry. That was never my intention.
23:44:15 <warlord> No, you didnt.