2008-01-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:10:41 <jsled> .
09:12:59 <warlord> nobody loves you, jsled. ;)
09:13:10 <jsled> :)
09:27:39 <andi5> hi jsled
09:27:45 <jsled> hello.
09:27:45 <gncbot> jsled: Sent just now: <andi5> we love u
09:28:00 <jsled> Aww.
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09:50:27 <warlord> hehehe
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10:46:21 <tehminkeh> i think i found a bug. In my transaction report, it counts the opening balance for Cash in Wallet twice
10:46:36 <tehminkeh> once as Cash in Wallet and once as Opening Balances
10:52:46 <warlord> i dont think that's a bug -- you're probably asking for it to include the equity accounts.
10:53:00 <tehminkeh> all i did was choose common accounts
10:53:09 <tehminkeh> when making an account hierarchy
10:53:21 <tehminkeh> and i set the opening balance on cash in wallet
10:53:30 <tehminkeh> so how is that being treated?
10:53:41 <tehminkeh> is opening balances under equity a fake account?
10:53:47 <tehminkeh> or did it enter that money twice
10:54:02 <jsled> No, it's not a "fake" account.
10:54:14 <jsled> I think warlord means the report is configured to include both accounts.
10:54:28 <tehminkeh> why is the same money in both accounts though?
10:54:33 <jsled> Opening Balance transactions are between ...
10:54:42 <jsled> Uh, because it's double-entry accounting. :)
10:54:49 <tehminkeh> if i transfer from cash in wallet to something else, does it also leave my equity?
10:55:00 <jsled> No.
10:55:09 <tehminkeh> why not?
10:55:15 <tehminkeh> if i spend that on food
10:55:25 <tehminkeh> i figure i shouldnt have it anymore
10:55:26 <warlord> There are two types of "equity", there's the Equity (in the accounts) and there's the runtime "equity"..
10:55:30 <jsled> Well, it doesn't leave the Equity account. But it would leave your instananeous "Equity".
10:55:46 <tehminkeh> so opening balances is a pseudo account?
10:55:52 <warlord> No, it's a real account.
10:56:11 <warlord> But it's your Equity at a point in time.
10:56:12 <jsled> In terms of sources and sinks of money, think of the Equity accounts as Sources.
10:56:16 <jsled> Like Income.
10:56:23 <warlord> For your running equity, run the Balance Sheet report.
10:56:31 <tehminkeh> ok
10:56:41 <jsled> Equity:Opening Balances -> Assets:Checking … Assets:Checking -> Expenses:Food
10:57:25 <tehminkeh> jsled, so i have to transfer it out?
10:57:32 <tehminkeh> why did the program put it in two places at once?
10:57:33 <jsled> If you've not, the Tutorial and Concepts Guide has a good treatment of this. wikipedia:"Double-Entry Accounting", too.
10:57:55 <jsled> No no. It's double-entry accounting. All transactions affect at least two accounts at once.
10:58:07 <tehminkeh> but one should be negative and one should be positive
10:58:08 <jsled> And all transactions sum to zero.
10:58:11 <tehminkeh> which is not the case
10:58:14 <tehminkeh> both are positive
10:58:16 <jsled> Not necessarily.
10:58:33 <tehminkeh> to sum to 0
10:58:39 <tehminkeh> one has to be positive
10:58:43 <tehminkeh> and the other must be negative
10:59:07 <Beth> Equity = Assets - Liabilities
10:59:12 <warlord> tehminkeh: No, one must be a credit and the other a debit.. But that doesn't mean it has to be displayed as a negative.
10:59:14 <jsled> The conventional notions of positive/negative and credit/debit change a bit in Accounting.
10:59:37 <jsled> Plus, we (confiurably) do some sign reversal that makes sense, after you think about it a bit.
10:59:48 <Beth> Equity, Assets, and Liabilities are all positive amounts in that equation.
10:59:51 <warlord> Indeed, gnucash has an option (set by default) to reverse the sign on many "negative" accounts.. E.g. Liability accounts.
11:00:05 <jsled> (Like for Credit Cards, where we're accustomed to seeing balances as positive.)
11:00:29 <tehminkeh> still though, why is it that i told gnucash to seed my cash account with 90 dollars
11:00:35 <tehminkeh> but somehow i have 180 equity
11:00:58 <tehminkeh> sorry
11:00:59 <tehminkeh> not
11:01:10 <tehminkeh> i have 180 in my grand total on my transaction report
11:01:51 <warlord> tehminkeh: because you included your Equity accounts in your transaction report.
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11:02:56 <tehminkeh> ok but the problem comes when i say ive spent that cash on expenses
11:02:57 <jsled> Yeah. The defaults for the Transaction Report select all accounts, Filtered to "Assets", but with the Filter Type = None.
11:03:01 <tehminkeh> and my equity doesnt go down
11:03:27 <warlord> tehminkeh: your instaneous equity does go down... Run the Balance Sheet report.
11:04:09 <tehminkeh> ok strange....
11:04:19 <warlord> Not strange at all.
11:04:28 <tehminkeh> im clearly not understanding some of this
11:04:31 <warlord> Clearly.
11:04:56 <warlord> The equity accounts are just a snapshot of your Equity at some point in time (generally the date you started accounting).
11:05:11 <tehminkeh> oh ok
11:05:13 <warlord> Your RUNTIME Equity is computable, but isn't shown in your Account Tree.
11:05:22 <tehminkeh> thats exactly what i was confused on
11:05:25 <tehminkeh> thank you very much
11:05:35 <tehminkeh> thanks everyone for helping
11:05:51 <warlord> Periodically you can "close the books" (by zero-ing your INcome and Expense back into Equity) to upate your snapshot to a new date.
11:06:12 <tehminkeh> oh, how do you do that?
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11:08:57 <warlord> By hand in 2.2.x
11:09:14 <warlord> trunk has an Actions -> Close Book
11:09:30 <tehminkeh> ok, thank you
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11:14:33 <warlord> you're welcome
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14:07:00 <MotoHoss> Problem on win32 port any known issues on win2k server?
14:08:57 <warlord> known issues are listed in the wiki
14:08:59 <MotoHoss> here is the error: The procedure entry point GetVolumePathNamesForVolumeNameW could not be located in the dynamic link library KERNEL32.dll.
14:09:24 <warlord> I've heard of that one before. No idea if it's listed on the wiki.
14:09:29 * warlord isn't a windows dev
14:10:23 * MotoHoss either. my dad isn't and he's 78 ... I
14:10:36 <MotoHoss> I'll look at the wiki more deeply.
14:10:40 <MotoHoss> thanks.
14:10:59 <jsled> yeah ... see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Known_issues
14:11:05 <jsled> I think it's the last bug listed there.
14:11:24 <jsled> One of the comments to the bug has a workaround.
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15:15:37 <andi5> Q: is it ok to link to mailing list posts in commit messages?
15:15:46 <jsled> works for me.
15:16:08 <andi5> great :)
15:20:24 <andi5> any objections to http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16837 then?
15:26:44 * andi5 goes on
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16:45:22 <andrewsw> I"m sitting in a lounge in the CS building, my first day back at school in 14 years. Freaky! They're all such young kids...
16:45:46 <andi5> hehe :)
16:49:14 <andrewsw> how crazy is this. I'm on Uni wireless and I can't access the Uni's own website: access denied...
16:49:19 <andrewsw> heh.
16:49:24 <andrewsw> off to class, root for me guys.
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16:49:51 <andi5> confidential contents, i guess
16:50:13 <andrewsw-afk> nah public website accessed from inside their own net.
16:50:48 <andi5> yeah, for everyone, but not for you... i would take that personaly
16:51:04 <andrewsw-afk> I'd guess it's bad routing sending me to the private side of it...
16:51:09 <andrewsw-afk> LOL
16:51:16 <andrewsw-afk> I'm out... cya
16:51:19 <andi5> ciao
16:53:09 <warlord> good luck!
16:53:18 <andi5> @tell nbinont tarballs are ready... i will check back for a short while in about an hour
16:53:18 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
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17:54:13 <andi5> this is a bad release, i am very unhappy
17:54:23 <jsled> Oh?
17:54:32 <andi5> i thought `make distcheck` would try building from the tarball?
17:55:02 <andi5> seems like we must not depend on files in art/ as they are _not_ distributed!
17:55:22 <jsled> Oh.
17:55:36 <andi5> BIG Oh *citing cstim* ;-)
17:57:03 * andi5 adds a note about a safety check to his process
17:58:07 <warlord> Umm.. "make distcheck" does build from the tarball.
17:58:36 <warlord> Want me to distcheck the 2.2 branch?
17:58:52 <andi5> something is weird though... may it be due to the fact that i ran "make distcheck" without "make all" before it?
17:59:48 <andi5> warlord: yeah, please do it
18:00:49 <warlord> You shouldn't need to make all before distcheck.
18:01:01 <andi5> *pheww* :)
18:01:41 <warlord> But... It looks like the tree is broken in that 'art' isn't part of the build.. But I see this:
18:01:43 <warlord> ./src/pixmaps/Makefile.am:scalable/gnucash-icon.svg: ${top_srcdir}/art/icon.svgz
18:01:43 <warlord> ./src/pixmaps/Makefile.am: gzip -cd ${top_srcdir}/art/icon.svgz > scalable/gnucash-icon.svg
18:01:58 <andi5> those 16x16/gnucash-icon.png files are in the tarball, that is fine
18:02:11 <andi5> but the dependency cannot be made
18:02:12 <warlord> You should add "art/icon.svgz" to the top Makefile.am EXTRA_DIST
18:02:41 <warlord> Or make that dependency only if BUILDING_FROM_SVN
18:02:48 <warlord> (so, yes, it IS a bug)
18:02:59 <andi5> but why did it pass make distcheck?
18:03:09 <andi5> BUILDING_FROM_SVN sounds good
18:03:18 <jsled> why?
18:03:53 <jsled> I mean, that's really to address installing the icons during distribution.
18:03:59 <jsled> But I might not be understanding.
18:04:04 <jsled> (Obviously not since I added the bug.)
18:05:15 <warlord> andi5: Good question. Let me test..
18:05:40 <andi5> warlord: i assure you, i saw "tarball ready" at least three times the preceeding days
18:06:02 <warlord> Oh, I believe you...
18:07:59 <warlord> one of these days I should go through the makefiles and fix the autogen warnings.
18:09:16 <andi5> jsled: with gncscalableicondir you define an automake target and so 'install' > ... > install-gncscalableiconDATA (== scalable/gnucash-icon.svg) > art/icon.svgz is the dependency chain of hell :-) .... just keep in mind that art/* files are not distributed so make needs some rules to generate them... but there are no
18:09:50 <jsled> andi5: cut off at 'but there are no'
18:10:07 <andi5> but there are no
18:10:14 <andi5> oh, that is all :)
18:10:25 <andi5> lol... how did you know what came after the end? ;-)
18:11:11 <jsled> I get that the art/ files aren't distributed ...
18:11:47 <jsled> but unless I'm misunderstanding, wrapping it in BUILDING_FROM_SVN wouldn't address the problem.
18:12:12 <jsled> I mean, they still wouldn't be part of the dist, right?
18:12:45 <andi5> i suppose warlord mean to wrap the rules, not gncscalableicondir and _DATA
18:12:48 <warlord> I dont see what causes scalable/gnucash-icon.svg to get built.
18:13:08 <andi5> it is just gzip -cd ... so i wonder whether we want to do it differently
18:13:41 <warlord> Ah, it's in EXTRA_DIST
18:14:17 <warlord> I see.. So it IS built as part of the dist...
18:14:50 <andi5> definitely, it is in the tarball
18:15:47 <warlord> Yes, so what you can do is put an if BUILDING_FROM_SVN around the rule to build the scalable/gnucash-icon.svg so it doesn't try to rebuild it later.
18:16:08 <warlord> But that doesn't explain why distcheck passes.
18:16:14 <andi5> correct..
18:16:24 <andi5> did yours finish already?
18:17:03 <warlord> not yet
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18:17:20 <warlord> running the 'check' portion right now.
18:17:36 <warlord> How did the tarball fail later?
18:18:34 <andi5> i cannot bring it back, sorry... i think it complained right away in src/pixmaps, but i issued 'make install' without 'make' anyway
18:18:53 <andi5> well, i could built once again
18:19:26 <warlord> It would be useful to know what build command(s) caused the failure
18:19:34 <andi5> yes
18:22:34 <warlord> distcheck failed for me:
18:22:36 <warlord> ERROR: files left after uninstall:
18:22:36 <warlord> ./share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache
18:22:36 <warlord> ./share/info/dir
18:22:36 <warlord> make[1]: *** [distuninstallcheck] Error 1
18:23:08 <andi5> weird
18:23:18 <andi5> http://pastebin.ca/raw/845910
18:24:08 <warlord> Huh!
18:24:21 <warlord> I wonder why it fails from the tarball but not during distcheck?
18:24:45 <warlord> Maybe because the distcheck finds the top-level 'art' dir?
18:24:53 <warlord> (not that it SHOULD.. but it may)
18:25:01 <andi5> that would suck royally, really
18:25:27 * andi5 rerans make distcheck
18:26:51 <warlord> me too...
18:27:03 <warlord> (saving the output so I can search it)
18:29:29 <andi5> Q: how is top_srcdir determined?
18:31:01 <warlord> Based on how configure is called.
18:31:48 <andi5> no, i mean... when i run make in src/pixmaps, where does the variable content come from?
18:31:50 <andi5> +s
18:32:00 <warlord> Fromt he Makefile
18:32:25 <andi5> does not seem so
18:33:39 <warlord> Sure it is!
18:33:41 <warlord> top_srcdir = ../../..
18:33:48 <warlord> grep top_srcdir .../Makefile
18:34:00 <andi5> huh...
18:34:43 <andi5> ah, right... i am sorry
18:34:51 <andi5> it was hidden... somehow
18:34:54 <warlord> About 60% through
18:34:56 <andi5> smaller fonts and stuff
18:35:17 <warlord> heheh
18:36:03 <andi5> ok, so top_srcdir definitely is not what is in the tarball, but the parent directory
18:37:19 <andi5> oh well, please ignore me
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18:38:30 <warlord> heheh
18:40:18 <warlord> andi5|unreliable: what OS are you using for distcheck?
18:40:27 <andi5|unreliable> ubuntu 7.10
18:40:34 <andi5|unreliable> automake 1.10
18:42:11 <warlord> Huh! I wonder why you dont see this same failure.. it's from gtk-update-icon-cache, called from src/pixmaps
18:42:39 <andi5|unreliable> i ... do not know...
18:54:03 <andi5|unreliable> hm.... No need to remake target `../../../art/icon.svgz'; using VPATH name `../../../src/pixmaps/../../../art/icon.svgz'. ..... this is the make decision while distchecking that everything is fine
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18:56:18 <andi5|unreliable> could be ${VPATH}/${top_srcdir}/art/icon.svgz ;-)
18:56:51 <warlord> Hmmmm....
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19:00:44 <warlord> Well, I have a workaround for that, but still not sure what to do about my check failures.
19:06:57 <andi5|unreliable> do you think share/info/dir comes from gtk-update-icon-cache as well?
19:07:13 <warlord> No, that's from src/doc/design.
19:07:18 <warlord> I'm working on a patch. Let me test it?
19:07:27 <andi5|unreliable> i mean, i have icon-theme.cache as well, but it was not complained about
19:07:29 <andi5|unreliable> sure
19:08:11 <warlord> Really?!?
19:08:20 <warlord> How WEIRD!
19:08:43 <andi5|unreliable> i stopped the make distcheck abruptedly, i have no clue what deletes it afterwards
19:09:02 <warlord> what deletes what?
19:09:26 <andi5|unreliable> well, i doubt that "make uninstall" removes icon-theme.cache
19:09:38 <warlord> Right, nothing does..
19:09:48 <warlord> I'm testing a hook to test that.
19:09:53 <andi5|unreliable> that is good
19:10:17 <andi5|unreliable> but well... this is probably a shared file, is not it?
19:10:23 <warlord> Dinner.. BIAB.
19:10:36 <warlord> Yes, which is why I only want to delete it during distcheck
19:10:45 <andi5|unreliable> oh, o
19:10:46 <andi5|unreliable> k
19:15:26 <andi5|unreliable> oh nooooo
19:15:31 <andi5|unreliable> that is stupid
19:17:37 <andi5|unreliable> i finally realized that ${PATH}/${top_srcdir}/art/icon.svgz is totally correct, given that all prerequisite files are searched in the VPATH list as well, which is the current source source dir.... unfortunately $top_srcdir only points to the top source dir when applied to a build directory and _not_ the corresponding source directory....
19:23:43 <warlord> HUH?
19:25:20 <andi5|unreliable> $SRC is your source directory, and you configure with: mkdir -p $SRC/_build ; cd $SRC/_build ; ../configure --src-dir=.. : top_srcdir in _build/src/pixmaps is ../../.. then
19:25:46 <andi5|unreliable> VPATH on the other hand directs to the corresponding source directory, i.e. ../../../src/pixmaps
19:27:26 <andi5|unreliable> as ${top_srcdir}/art/icon.svgz is not found, it is searched in the VPATHs as well, and found at $VPATH/$top_srcdir, which is from $SRC/_build/src/pixmaps ../../../src/pixmaps/../../../art/icon.svg , i.e. $SRC/../art/icon.svgz
19:29:20 <andi5|unreliable> maybe we should make it $top_builddir?
19:29:55 <andi5|unreliable> that should work, although it definitely reads strange
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19:31:57 <andi5|unreliable> this sucks, well..... warlord, are you patching again?
19:32:33 <warlord> working on it...
19:33:05 <andi5|unreliable> maybe i will make a tiny proof-of-misconcept and file an appropriate bug :)
19:33:11 <andi5|unreliable> just to nag them :)
19:33:49 <andi5|unreliable> [the autotools guys]
19:34:21 <warlord> Okay...
19:34:50 <warlord> I have no idea is distuninstallcheck-hook exists.. I'm hoping
19:35:15 <andi5|unreliable> google has no hit :(
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19:39:17 <warlord> Damn, nope.
19:39:21 <warlord> Okay, let me try something else.
19:39:49 <andi5|unreliable> we should probably push our results to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/AppIcon
19:40:35 <warlord> sure...
19:41:39 <warlord> If this distcheck passes I'll show you my diff and you can test it.
19:41:54 <andi5|unreliable> what are you going to do with the icon cache?
19:41:58 <andi5|unreliable> i plan to ask on #gnome
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19:42:24 <andi5> or rather gtk+
19:42:33 <warlord> ignore it during distcheckuninstall
19:43:01 <andi5> are you going to overwrite distuninstallcheck_listfiles?
19:44:07 <warlord> not overwrite... but change.. yeah. that's what i'm currently testing
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19:46:37 <andi5> warlord: what gtk+ version do you use?
19:47:04 <warlord> gtk2-2.10.14-3.fc7
19:50:30 <warlord> damn, that didn't work either! WTF!
19:51:57 <andi5> warlord: actually, maybe it is better to just fix the art/icon.svgz thingie and let us make tarballs again....
19:52:05 <andi5> i wonder where nathan is though :-)
19:52:15 <andi5> (getting later and later here)
19:52:17 <warlord> Well, I'm trying to figure out why distcheck isn't working for me.
19:52:24 <andi5> i understand that :)
19:52:45 * andi5 checks bugzilla
19:53:26 <warlord> Something like http://pastebin.ca/845998
19:53:43 <warlord> That should fix your icon issue.
19:53:45 <andi5> did that work for you?... well i can test it anyway
19:53:55 <warlord> I have no idea.. I can't get distcheck to finish.
19:54:07 <andi5> then run "make dist" :-)
19:54:32 <warlord> And then what?
19:54:51 <andi5> well, it barked for me after trying to compile from the tarballl
19:55:06 <andi5> but do not worry
19:56:11 <andi5> one completely different question: does your terminal hide input after make distcheck as well? i have to execute `reset` before i can continue..
19:56:50 <warlord> Nope.
19:56:55 <andi5> ok
19:56:56 <warlord> Terminal is fine.
19:57:12 <warlord> But I think I see why my change isn't working..
20:00:59 <warlord> Maybe I need to take a break from this for a minute...
20:01:29 <andi5> it is fun, is not it?
20:02:59 <warlord> oh yeah!
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20:17:12 <andi5> warlord: r16842 looks promising...
20:17:55 <warlord> good...
20:18:06 <warlord> i still want to work on distcheck
20:22:15 <andi5> ok... my tarball test will succeed soon... will do a distcheck again and then go to sleep
20:28:13 <warlord> ok.
20:28:16 <warlord> good night.
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20:51:57 <dbreiser> andi5: I regularly have terminal display issues after a gnucash build. I use 'stty sane' instead of reset
20:51:57 <gncbot> dbreiser: Sent 2 days, 17 hours, and 8 minutes ago: <d3ity> thanks for all the help! Figured I'd let you know I've got it working without a hitch. That hint was all I needed.
20:52:28 <andi5> dbreiser: thanks!
20:54:14 <dbreiser> I thought it was an Apple bug. They rewrote their terminal from scratch for OS X 10.5, and I didn't have the problem until then.
20:54:56 <andi5> is it written from scratch?
20:55:00 <andi5> maybe it is a rxvt-thingie
20:55:14 <dbreiser> rxvt?
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20:57:36 <warlord> * smacks himself * distcleancheck_listfiles != distunsinstallcheck_listfiles
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20:59:45 <andi5> there is no better moment for a wifi driver to cease ....
21:00:53 <warlord> Hahahaha
21:00:55 <andi5> warlord: yeah, that is what we all love ... (besides jsled)
21:01:00 <warlord> Hehe
21:02:31 <warlord> * fingers crossed *
21:05:28 <andi5> ok... my connection to gnucash.org is too slow to wait for yet another download... so feel free to check against http://pastebin.ca/raw/846074 (maybe i will put that into the email announcement)
21:06:12 <andi5> g'night@all
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21:08:22 <warlord> w00t!
21:14:07 <warlord> @tell andi5 try r16844 to get distcheck working again (at least for me)
21:14:07 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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22:50:51 <nbinont> .
22:50:51 <gncbot> nbinont: Sent 5 hours and 57 minutes ago: <andi5> tarballs are ready... i will check back for a short while in about an hour
22:52:29 <nbinont> @tell andi5 I'll probably be another 24 hours with the build
22:52:29 <gncbot> nbinont: The operation succeeded.
22:53:10 <warlord> yay
22:55:05 <andrewsw> is that 2.2.3 out?
22:55:19 <andrewsw> looks like you guys had a little difficulty there today.
22:56:08 <warlord> yeah.
22:57:30 <andrewsw> [ot] my CS prof says today "if you spend lots of energy writing all this code, its good to distribute a binary, then no one can read your code"
22:57:43 <warlord> hahahah
22:57:52 <andrewsw> I'm still sort of stunned.
22:58:32 <warlord> If you're good then you don't mind someone reading your code.
22:58:49 <andrewsw> if your bad it's helpful to have someone read your code.
22:59:06 <warlord> Exactly.
22:59:08 <andrewsw> I should have done the <cough><cough>copyright<cough>
22:59:16 <warlord> So there's no reason not to show your code.
22:59:20 <andrewsw> :)
23:00:09 <andrewsw> so not only do I have to learn java, but I may have to deal with an idiot prof. Oh well.
23:01:10 <andrewsw> anyway. congrats on 2.2.3. I have math homework to do... wow. cya round.
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23:01:55 <warlord> good luck!
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