2008-01-05 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:53 <d3ity> andrewsw, PNC bank.... i'm not sure but I have a feeling it's a pennsylvania thing
00:01:00 <d3ity> www.pnc.com
00:01:12 <d3ity> I know they're based out of Pittsburg
00:02:29 <andrewsw> Well they look big enough that you should be able to find some help.
00:02:45 <andrewsw> I don't use any of the online features, so I just can't begin to help other than to steer you to gnucash-user.
00:03:32 *** twunder has quit IRC
00:03:34 <IanL> anyone familiar with the development of gnc plugins? I tried fiddling with the QIF plugin but after I compile and run it doesn't show up in the import menu.
00:03:57 <andrewsw> d3ity: or, if you're working this same schedule, try *before* work...
00:04:19 <andrewsw> IanL: so after you fiddle with it it disappears?
00:05:39 * andrewsw wants someone to write emacs keybindings for gnucash...
00:06:10 <IanL> yah,
00:06:34 <andrewsw> well then you've probably written scheme code that doesn't parse (I assume you're in the scheme part).
00:06:43 <andrewsw> any console output?
00:06:49 <IanL> I didn't change the action that launches the QIF import druid itself but rather the function that gets called
00:06:54 <IanL> nah,
00:06:57 <IanL> so scheme code,
00:07:06 <IanL> nah console is normal,
00:07:25 <IanL> no scheme code is what I meant to say.
00:07:30 <andrewsw> can you pastebin your diff?
00:08:11 <IanL> I'm messing with the C code for the importer just to try to get some stuff to work.
00:08:12 <IanL> sure,
00:08:15 <andrewsw> or point me to the code you changed.
00:08:38 <IanL> pastebining the diff would help more I think.
00:09:01 <d3ity> andrewsw, true... before work would require waking up early though..
00:09:06 <IanL> I basically wanted to change the code for the action to launch the QIF import druid to something else.
00:09:07 <andrewsw> heh heh...
00:09:17 <IanL> so I changed it to launch a file selection dialog.
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00:10:56 <jjjjjjj> should i post my bug that i think i found even if it's a dumb one?
00:12:57 <andrewsw> well, jjjjjjj either post it or fix it and post the patch...
00:13:25 <jjjjjjj> oh. i'm not a programmer
00:13:51 <andrewsw> that narrows down the options significantly, I'd say ;)
00:14:18 <jjjjjjj> ah... the old "or" statementl. gotcha
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00:14:55 <andrewsw> what's your bug jjjjjjj
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00:15:19 <IanL> andrewsw: http://paste.lisp.org/display/53626
00:16:03 <jjjjjjj> for what it's worth... if i start gnucash for the first time (after installing) and start setting up a new file and the laptop hibernates.... i can't go forward, back or cancel.
00:16:45 <andrewsw> jjjjjjj: hmmm... maybe you should allow more time for your banking sessions?
00:16:48 <jjjjjjj> but if I close gnucash... she asks me if I want to save, saveandclose or cancel
00:17:03 <andrewsw> oh, that's probably a known issue.
00:17:19 <andrewsw> If you remove "hibernate" from that process, you'll get the same results.
00:17:22 <andrewsw> try this:
00:17:28 <andrewsw> gnucash --nofile
00:17:43 <jjjjjjj> well I hadn't even started gnucash. i was through the initialk accounts setup part.
00:18:04 <andrewsw> then wait a few, and quit, you'll get the same dialog.
00:18:23 <jjjjjjj> k. looks like the only bug here is me. :(
00:18:37 <andrewsw> not at all jjjjjjj, I'm just a little punchy.
00:18:55 <jjjjjjj> punchy. hmmm. never heard that one b4,.
00:19:15 <andrewsw> near the end of my day and still working too hard... getting a little rough around the edges.
00:19:54 <andrewsw> so, when you start up gnucash with no file (like when you start it for the first time) it creates an empty "book".
00:19:58 <jjjjjjj> ah. hey... it's Saturday. best to leave well enough alone and enjoy freinds and family etc.
00:20:26 <andrewsw> after a little time passes, it thinks there have been changes and so prompts for the save.
00:20:37 <jjjjjjj> just starting now
00:20:46 <andrewsw> heh, still friday here and I have two payrolls to deliver tomorrow... :(
00:21:39 <jjjjjjj> yup... it's giving the 'create new set of accounts, import my qif files, open the new user tutorial' dialog
00:22:11 <jjjjjjj> back into the druid. thanks andrewsw
00:22:16 <andrewsw> :)
00:22:37 <jjjjjjj> sleep well
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00:22:47 <andrewsw> you too
00:31:16 <andrewsw> IanL: from where did you rebuild that? where in the tree, that is?
00:34:36 <IanL> The diff is from the gnucash/trunk root directory.
00:34:56 <andrewsw> yes, but from where did you `make install` after your changes?
00:35:17 <IanL> from where? the same directory I did configure and make in.
00:35:29 <IanL> I made a separate directory called build
00:35:45 <IanL> cd build; configure <options>; make; make install
00:35:57 <IanL> well ../configure <options>
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00:36:49 <andrewsw> okay.
00:37:06 <andrewsw> (I sometimes `make install` from the last change I made, and screw myself).
00:39:21 <IanL> right,
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00:43:28 <andrewsw> IanL: I'm not much help, but what I see that might be a problem: you are replacing gnc_ui_qif_import_druid_make with a new function that has a different return.
00:44:21 <andrewsw> QIFImportWindow * gnc_ui_import_druid_make vs void gnc_ui_qif_import
00:46:26 <IanL> yah, but the return went nowhere anyway.
00:46:57 <andrewsw> yeah, I see that now,
00:46:59 <IanL> the call to gnc_ui_import_druid_make discarded the return
00:47:44 <andrewsw> I think I got it... the power of grep.
00:49:02 <andrewsw> look at gncmod-plugin-qif-import.c, there the return is used
00:50:21 <andrewsw> hmmm... that file says deprecated.
00:51:00 <andrewsw> sorry, that's all I got.
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00:52:50 <dbreiser> @tell d3ity read the irc scrollback for answers to your repeated questons http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2008/01/2008-01-04.html#T13:26:50
00:52:50 <gncbot> dbreiser: The operation succeeded.
00:53:02 <IanL> I'm sure it's still used. I'll see if fixing it works,
00:53:03 <d3ity> dbreiser, thank you
00:53:03 <gncbot> d3ity: Sent just now: <dbreiser> read the irc scrollback for answers to your repeated questons http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2008/01/2008-01-04.html#T13:26:50
00:53:40 <andrewsw> does our little bot recognize other relative time spans like "Recently" or "some time back"?
00:54:03 <dbreiser> I didn't get that from the bot - got it from the logs
00:54:57 <andrewsw> no, the bot just said "just now" instead of "35 seconds ago"
00:55:45 <d3ity> dbreiser, i looked at that but it doesn't show the screen I'm seeing
00:56:10 <dbreiser> what's the name of the dialog window?
00:56:29 <d3ity> The dialog i'm looking at says Create or Import User and gives the following options: Import Chipcard | Init Chipcard | Setup PIN/TAN | Import Keyfile | Create Keyfile
00:57:12 <d3ity> I am unsure which to select
00:57:13 <dbreiser> ok, you're in the wrong spot. I'll have to see if I can find that one. You don't want anything chipcard
00:57:29 <d3ity> I got there by entering the Aqbanking wizard
00:57:40 <d3ity> brings up a similar dialog to the first picture in the user section of the wiki
00:57:49 <d3ity> however when I click add to create a user... this appears
00:58:51 <dbreiser> click on the Backends tab before you click on users and make sure aqofxconnect is active
00:59:20 <d3ity> aqhbci and aqnone are my only options... am I missing a dependancy?
01:00:00 <dbreiser> yep. aqbanking needs to be compile with a flag to tell it to build ofxdc. just a minute, I'll find the syntax
01:00:22 <d3ity> dbreiser, I'm using gentoo, so if it's just a useflag that will only take a few minutes
01:01:24 <d3ity> dbreiser, i think i've found the problem...
01:01:31 <dbreiser> d3ity: the configure command needs --with-backends=aqofxconnect
01:02:59 <d3ity> dbreiser, I believe gentoo handles that through the ofx useflag in make.conf.... I'm compiling all that stuff and I'll check and see if it JustWorks(tm)... if not i suppose I'm off to #gentoo on freenode
01:03:22 <d3ity> but thank you for the hint... I'm pretty sure I've got a handle on this assuming all those settings are correct
01:03:29 <dbreiser> d3ity: OK. I'm on a mac, so I don't know anything about gentoo
01:04:08 <dbreiser> time for me to sleep. good luck with the useflag
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01:04:15 <d3ity> dbreiser, thanks for all the help
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02:27:10 <andrewsw> well, that's enough damage for tonight...
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03:40:23 <rocky> sup? anyone home...superNoob here
03:41:36 <rocky> I've got 2.2.2 and it works sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't
03:42:32 <rocky> No fonts found
03:42:51 <rocky> fontconfig library is not correctly configured
03:43:08 <d3ity> @tell dbreiser thanks for all the help! Figured I'd let you know I've got it working without a hitch. That hint was all I needed.
03:43:08 <gncbot> d3ity: The operation succeeded.
03:43:26 <d3ity> rocky, what distro are you using?
03:43:45 <rocky> I'm using the...
03:44:30 <d3ity> rocky, windows? linux? mac?
03:44:39 <d3ity> that's probably an easier question to answer
03:44:48 <rocky> d3ity...I'm using mac...and downloaded with fink commander...ran self update
03:45:12 <rocky> it's not working very stable...sometimes there's no prob and I love the program, sometimes it's a
03:45:15 <d3ity> aye, I have no experience with macs... however fontconfig is common to both linux and mac. Basically, I think you need to update fontconfig
03:45:23 <d3ity> but I couldn't tell you where to start on mac
03:45:24 <rocky> sweet
03:45:44 <d3ity> make sure your settings for fontconfig are right and that you have the latest version
03:45:50 <rocky> fontconfig? this will fix the problem of not being able to startup?
03:46:01 <d3ity> if that's the error you're recieving... yes
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03:46:13 <rocky> okay, i'll look into it...anyone know about Mac? thank you for the tip d3ity
03:46:15 <d3ity> from that error message, it appears you are missing a font
03:48:33 <rocky> can i update fontconfig through...finkcommander?
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08:21:15 <Finswimmer> hi there, is it possible to add a button/box to change the start/stop/duration for a report (e.g next to the print button)? so that one does not has to open the options dialog every time?
08:23:53 <Finswimmer> perfect would be a dropdown menu where you can switch to each month directly.
08:25:03 <andi5> Finswimmer: you probably know that you can click on apply if you do not want to close the dialog, and also save customized reports?
08:25:38 <andi5> i think there has been an enhencement request of the same type ... lemme check
08:27:48 <andi5> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319386
08:28:25 <andi5> enhancement, even
08:29:22 <Finswimmer> andi5: uhh. much more work than i have expected.
08:30:09 <andi5> but it is still open and waiting for patches ;-)
08:30:15 <Finswimmer> but thanks. maybe someday it will be added.
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09:05:20 <nbinont-afk> andi5: I'm off - catch you later this weekend
09:05:36 <andi5> ok
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12:10:05 <ravenlock> hello.
12:10:20 <andi5> hi
12:10:33 <ravenlock> I'm having trouble deleting a payee.
12:10:50 <ravenlock> I thought there was a way.. but can;t seem to find it.
12:11:28 <andi5> hm... i do not use the business features and do not know a way as well
12:11:48 <ravenlock> not a bussiness feature.
12:12:02 <ravenlock> I was trying to record/pay my electric bill.
12:12:17 <ravenlock> I accidentally typed "TXU En"<return>
12:12:22 <andi5> hm... everything that deals with the "business" menu is a business feature :-)
12:12:23 <ravenlock> now I have a payee named
12:12:27 <ravenlock> "TXU En"
12:12:37 <ravenlock> its a check.
12:12:43 <ravenlock> I wrote a check. I'm recording it.
12:12:46 <andi5> okok
12:12:47 <ravenlock> thats not bussiness specific
12:12:54 <ravenlock> hehe
12:13:13 <ravenlock> ssorry... not as frustrated as that may have sounded. :)
12:13:31 <andi5> so you want to delete a transaction?
12:13:44 <andi5> or rather account?
12:13:52 <ravenlock> no. the payee that is now in my "auto-complete" list
12:14:14 <ravenlock> when I go to type a payee... gnucashs is courteous enough to auto-complete the payee name
12:14:15 <andi5> have you restarted gnucahs?
12:14:24 <ravenlock> one sec
12:15:43 <ravenlock> ahem... yeah. that did it. :)
12:15:47 <andi5> :-)
12:15:51 <ravenlock> sorry for the noise. :P
12:16:05 <andi5> you are welcome :)
12:16:11 <ravenlock> I guess it only hangs onto it if there is a transaction.
12:16:12 <ravenlock> ?
12:16:23 <ravenlock> cause I never completed the transaction.
12:17:01 <ravenlock> thanks for the help. :)
12:17:25 <andi5> no, the auto-completion code remembers transctions in that specific account, even when you close the register and reopen it afterwards, iirc
12:17:51 <andi5> seems like the only way to get rid of auto-completing deleted txns is to restart gnucash.... but maybe that is not correct .)
12:18:09 <ravenlock> I see.
12:18:17 <ravenlock> well, it fixed things for me.
12:18:20 <ravenlock> Thanks! :)
12:18:25 <andi5> have fun
12:18:42 <ravenlock> :)
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12:31:06 <chris> .wi5
12:31:58 <andi5> hm?
12:32:03 <chris> nm
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12:32:41 <andi5> sudo /etc/init.d/chris restart
12:33:35 <chris> Segmentation fault
12:33:44 <andi5> arrrgh
12:33:57 <andi5> bugzilla.god.com/enter_bug.cgi
12:34:06 <chris> heh
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13:34:59 <Hodgestar> Ping.
13:35:21 <andi5> pong
13:37:22 <Hodgestar> I've just started using gnucash.
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13:39:01 <Hodgestar> I'd like to somehow mark some expenses as being joint household expenses so that I can generate a report which tells me how much money has been spend on these things.
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13:39:55 <Hodgestar> The problem is that virtually anything could count as a joint household expense (for example, car repairs or gifts to friends) and it seems a shame to duplicate or remove all the existing expense accounts just to get this one report.
13:40:41 <andi5> i ... do not understand
13:40:45 <Hodgestar> I was thinking of perhaps marking all such transactions with a * in the description and writing a report which finds things by description, but I thought I'd better ask here first before heading off in the wrong direction.
13:42:15 <andi5> what are your non-household expenses alike?
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13:43:05 <Hodgestar> andi5: Me and my girlfriend share a large set of common expenses and then occasionally one of us will pay the other some amount to even contributions out.
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13:43:21 <andi5> ahhhh
13:44:13 <andi5> actually, i have three such expense trees here, but i am not sure that is the only solution
13:44:18 <Hodgestar> I've been using a spreadsheet to vaguely keep track of things up to now, but I thought that given that it's the start of a new year I should try to do things properly. It's also a good way to learn some things about the practical aspects of accounting.
13:45:28 <Hodgestar> So currently the answer is to have three different expenses trees? Common, Person A and Person B?
13:45:53 <andi5> that is what i do, but let us see what the faq and mailing lists say :)
13:46:35 <Hodgestar> I read the FAQ.
13:46:55 <andi5> nothing in there, right?
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13:47:02 <Hodgestar> I couldn't think of a short phrase to search the mailing list with.
13:47:12 <Hodgestar> Nope. Didn't find anything relevant in the FAQ.
13:47:23 <andi5> yeah... i am not even a native speaker :(
13:49:00 <Hodgestar> And I kept finding the mini-flamewar about the lack of categories.
13:49:14 <andi5> hehe :)
13:50:08 <andi5> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2005-February/013122.html ... looks like what we do?
13:51:09 <andi5> not exactly... the third, common account is missing
13:51:46 <andi5> ah well, just ignore me, i am confused
13:52:45 <Hodgestar> Woot.
13:54:03 <Hodgestar> Well, that does look like a slightly different solution where common transactions are split in half.
13:54:11 <andi5> i just never wanted to enter transactions with halved amounts
13:54:58 <Hodgestar> Yeah. That's non inituitive and means that Expenses:Rent won't actually show what you've paid for rent, but rather something a bit like half the amount you've paid for rent.
13:56:18 <Hodgestar> Unless when they pay you you run around filling in the missing halves in the shared account thing.
13:57:44 <andi5> i guess i will keep my three expense trees and two income trees... that may not be perfect accounting, but it works for me :)
13:59:04 <andi5> you may want to ask for real knowledgable guys waking up here :)
13:59:10 <Hodgestar> It is certainly makes what is going on more obvious.
13:59:13 <andi5> replace ask by wait
14:00:00 <Hodgestar> I'm about to head off to the movies but I'll stay connected and see if anyone has further insights to share. Thanks for your help (and digging up the mailing list post).
14:00:42 <andi5> Hodgestar: maybe someone leaves you a message by using gncbot... just say something (like .), he will tell you then
14:01:05 <andi5> or adds an FAQ entry, i can read then :)
14:01:41 <Hodgestar> Ah. Thanks again.
14:01:47 <andi5> have fun
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14:06:21 <TheNut> How do you deal with an invoice which will never be paid?
14:06:50 <TheNut> ie. Client couldn't pay X and an agreement was reached to only pay Y instead.
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14:24:49 <warlord> TheNut: process the payment for the unpaid amount and move it from Assets:Checking to expenses:WriteOff
14:26:09 <warlord> Hodgestar: I'd recommend doing what's in the link andi5 gave you.. Keep an Asset account for the amount owed to you. Yes, your Expenses will only show half, but technically that's exactly correct. You don't pay all the rent; you only pay half the rent. Your roommate pays the other half, even if you write the whole check.
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14:32:00 <chris> gncbot: op
14:32:00 <gncbot> chris: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
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15:08:23 * chris is considering switching from dtach+irssi to dircproxy+erc.
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15:21:26 <andrewsw> chris: why not screen+irssi (what I use...)
15:24:50 <chris> gncbot: op
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15:26:56 <chris> andrewsw: I like dtach a little better than screen, although they are pretty similiar functionality. I also really like irssi, but erc might be just as good, with much better integration into emacs.
15:31:49 <jsled> chris: note that if you use dircproxy with multiple servers, erc might not play nicely.
15:32:12 <jsled> At least, when I tried it, as soon as I tried to establish the second connection to localhost:57000, it killed the first one, or complained, or something.
15:33:01 <jsled> (dircproxy differentiates servers by password, of all things)
15:33:19 <jsled> There might be a straightforward workaround, but I didn't find one in about 5 minutes.
15:34:46 <andrewsw> I see. I use screen because I ssh in from everywhere and just attach my session. Usually have mutt, irssi, a couple bashes running.
15:35:19 <andrewsw> I generally don't use emacs within screen as it's just a pain. Instead I pull from my git repo and just do dev work locally on whatever machine I'm at...
15:35:29 <andrewsw> irssi works great in that scenario
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15:36:21 <elb> emacs doesn't really require screen anyway, since you can spawn new frames :-)
15:37:18 <jsled> right. `emacsclient -e '(make-frame-on-display "host:0")'`
15:37:55 <jsled> though that will cause my "root" emacs(-22.1) session to crash pretty reliably…
15:40:05 <chris> jsled: I'm connected to multiple servers right now actually.
15:40:18 <jsled> Oh?
15:41:17 <elb> jsled: if the remote display gets disconnected before all frames on that display are closed, emacs doesn't like it at all
15:41:47 <andrewsw> elb: I suppose if I switched to erc and whatever emacs uses for mail, then dtach emacs (-nw FTW) would make sense.
15:41:53 <andrewsw> I just can't stand the shell in emacs.
15:42:14 <elb> I use screen, as well -- but not for emacs
15:42:20 <elb> I use it for mutt, pidgin, irssi, silc, etc.
15:42:25 <elb> finch ,that is, not pidgin
15:43:06 <andrewsw> Maybe I don't have it configured properly: no up-arrow history, no C-u -- delete to start of line, Home key puts you at teh start of the prompt et cetc etc.
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15:43:26 <elb> yeah, something is wrong, then
15:43:33 <elb> I think I had to bind C-u myself
15:43:40 <elb> but ^a should behave appropriately
15:43:54 <elb> to go to the previous command rather than the previous line, use C-c C-p instead of C-p
15:44:23 <chris> looks like it's M-p in erc
15:44:34 <andrewsw> hmmm... if ^a works, then I could run screen inside emacs. Now if only I could get rid of this pesky kernel and underlying OS...
15:44:59 <elb> yeah, my shell-mode-hook includes (define-key (current-local-map) "\C-u" 'comint-kill-input)
15:45:16 <elb> oh, no, C-a is BOL but goes to the end of the prompt, I mean
15:45:26 <elb> and besides, ^a is a RIDICULOUS escape key for screen
15:45:31 <elb> I have no idea how it was chosen
15:45:33 <elb> I use ^]
15:46:47 <andrewsw> I just haven't bothered to learn the appropriate keybindings for *shell* and am so used to an xterm that it's a daunting task
15:48:01 <andrewsw> ^a works great for me: I'm a lefty and have bound my caps lock to be my mod-key for window manager control: *all* my control sequence stuff is done with one hand. I think guitar playing helps with the pinky dexterity too..
15:51:17 <andrewsw> see ya
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15:54:08 <jsled> We apparently work fine with goffice-0.6.0, btw.
15:54:17 <jsled> c.f. http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=203979#c9
16:02:29 <elb> which reminds me, for some unfathomable reason, that I am thinking about writing a portable application which allows one to enter gnucash transactions and then sync them to gnucash proper at a later date
16:03:09 <elb> are any of the exchange formats currently supported capable of exchanging information about what accounts transactions are to/from ?
16:03:35 <elb> (I know that when I played with QIF etc., all transactions in a given import were to/from the same "unknown" account or some such, which is not optimal)
16:35:49 <jsled> Geez. Yes, everyone, we all prefer the 1.8 Imbalance account behavior, and we'd all prefer if it was back. Can we end the thread, now? :)
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17:12:24 * andrewsw refrains from kicking the dead horse.
17:33:34 <andrewsw> 507355 is an obvious duplicate of 504646 but has pretty pictures... is marking it a dupe still the right thing to do?
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17:34:44 <jsled> keep the better bug.
17:35:57 * andrewsw loves nice subjective answers... ;)
17:36:14 <jsled> :)
17:36:25 <andrewsw> Maybe I'll just move the pics from the new one to the older, comment laden one...
17:36:33 <jsled> In this case, it sounds like marking 504 a dup of 507...
17:36:45 <jsled> Oh, no need for that.
17:37:05 <andrewsw> 504 has some comments and links on to what may be the relevant gtk bug...
17:37:31 <jsled> It'll be easier to copy that gtk bug ref. than the sshots. :)
17:41:10 <andrewsw> hm... looks like it might even be NOTABUG with it linked to gtk like that...
17:45:43 <andrewsw> cj: ping
17:47:02 <andrewsw> 507143 should just switch back to linux.
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17:51:37 <jsled_> to reference an earlier conversation: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/071001.html
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17:53:47 <andrewsw> oh that's nice jsled, assuming that was really you and not some drive-by emacs evangelist :)
17:58:25 <andrewsw> @tell cj I appreciate what you're trying to do, but these bugs are still pretty vague. We know it's <no file> and that's not a bug. Can I humbly suggest you'll get much farther by providing patches to the documentation or contributing to the wiki?
17:58:25 <gncbot> andrewsw: The operation succeeded.
18:00:29 <andrewsw> @tell cj It's not that we don't care about usability, it's more an issue of: you're confused, we're not, so what can we do to make you less confused? Does that make sense?
18:00:29 <gncbot> andrewsw: The operation succeeded.
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18:08:15 <andi5> [ot] times are getting more and more exciting (at least for me)... dtach, emacs-multi-tty (i cannot wait until it hits ubuntu), finch, urxvt (still excited, keep tweaking it), git, cscope (let us see whether it is faster than me), [...]
18:09:17 <andrewsw> [ot] andi5: how are you tweaking urxvt and for what purpose?
18:10:44 <andi5> [ot] it features a perl extension called "tabbed", giving you tabbing functionality... i made it look slim & nice and some, tab moving & killing... we will see what comes next :) (remind: i _hate_ perl)
18:12:50 <andi5> elb: is there any way to get a running finch session into pidgin?
18:13:10 <andi5> and back?
18:13:41 <elb> no
18:13:43 <andi5> purpleproxy :-)
18:13:50 <andi5> :(
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18:18:10 <Hodgestar> andi5, warlord-afk: I've eventually settled on the solution of having a Household:Pool and then accounts called Household:Name for each person. When expenses are payed, I split the transaction so that the person paying the expense has their Household:Name account credited from the Household:Pool account. I feel this more accurately records the physical transactions taking place than the model where you're credited only the part of the e
18:18:11 <Hodgestar> xpense you didn't owe.
18:19:00 <Hodgestar> Thanks again for the suggestions (which put me on the path to a solution I like).
18:20:18 <andi5> andrewsw: watch out for cody (do not close bugs he cc'ed), as he is the one who will fix them for us :-D
18:21:01 <andrewsw> yeah I wondered about that and that's why I spoke to him directly and linked his bug in the other.
18:21:11 * andrewsw goes to check again.
18:21:17 <andi5> andrewsw: no, it is ok
18:22:18 <andi5> andrewsw: he noticed the problem already... i would love to help him could I stand windows...
18:23:00 <andrewsw> you mean that my comments make it ok? I thought the screenshots were vastly superior to the copious reply quoting and AOL'ing
18:23:56 <andrewsw> jeez bugzilla gets annoying sometimes...
18:25:44 <andrewsw> should I cc him over on the other one?
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18:26:36 <andi5> andrewsw: no, I suppose that is not necessary
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18:27:57 <andrewsw> well, I don't want to step on toes.
18:28:36 <andi5> andrewsw: everything is fine, i just made a joke
18:29:12 <andrewsw> oh. I see. whoosh
18:43:55 <ttick> god, this is so frustrating. The information from my mortgage company doesn't seem to balance with itself. Starting Balance - payment (split to interest, escrow, principle) != new balance. Ugh!
18:56:41 <andrewsw> ttick: that sucks
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18:58:15 <ttick> I have to be doing something wrong here.
18:58:33 <ttick> Do accounts roll-up?
18:58:45 <andrewsw> ?? what do you mean?
18:59:11 <ttick> That is if a super account balance is 1,000. And I apply 400.00 to the account, and 200.00 to an sub-account. Will the new super-account balance be 400?
18:59:58 <andrewsw> In the account view yes, but not in the super-account register.
19:00:01 <andrewsw> IIRC
19:00:03 <ttick> I have: liability:mortgage:primary and liabily:mortgage:primary:reduction to keep track of when I pay in advance.
19:00:08 <ttick> ah!
19:00:13 <ttick> okay, I think that must be what's happening
19:00:17 <ttick> hmm
19:00:37 <ttick> wanted to keep track of my advance payments seperately.
19:06:37 <andrewsw> ttick: you could use more sub-accounts mortgage:primary:initial_balance, mort:prim:normal_pmts, mort:prim:pre-pmts. Make primary a placeholder.
19:06:47 <andrewsw> sort of like when tracking depreciation.
19:07:21 <andrewsw> leave initial_balance untouched, record all payments into the other two sub accounts. THe balance of primary (in acct view) shows the total amount left.
19:07:34 <ttick> hmm, how would I see if past balances match what the mortgage company has in mind?
19:08:33 <ttick> so, I guess the init_balance will be a +liabilty, and the twp pmts would be -liabilties?
19:08:35 <andrewsw> not sure. just thinking a-keyboard.
19:08:51 <ttick> no, I appreciate it. I definately would like suggestions.
19:09:11 <andrewsw> yes. just like on the asset side you have asset:cost and asset:deprec. one is a +asset and one is a -asset and the two net to the current book value.
19:09:51 <andrewsw> I'm not sure how that would play with trying to reconcile mortgage statements though.
19:09:59 <ttick> ah, I haven't gotten into depreciation yet. Not keeping track of most of my fixed assets.
19:10:26 <andrewsw> My mortgage company shows them as separate amounts, regular and pre-payment, so I could track it that way (I don't, BTW).
19:12:30 <andrewsw> in depreciation you keep it separate because although (at least for business) you deduct the deprec. expense it's really a *fake* expense. You want to be able to back it out later, I guess, if you dispose of the asset and get more or less than the book value.
19:12:50 <andrewsw> I don't relaly know though.
19:16:40 <ttick> Hmm, I moved things around to the sperate way. Looks okay. Still have problems with making sure the balances check out historically. :/ Not sure how I'm going to do this.
19:17:27 <ttick> It would be nice if the place-holder rolled up transactions if you brought up the account screen for it -- instead of being worthless.
19:17:33 <ttick> That would be a really nice feature.
19:17:39 <andrewsw> yes it would.
19:17:43 <andrewsw> might be worth an RFE
19:18:02 <andrewsw> a placeholder could remain write-only but show all the subs...
19:18:19 <ttick> read-only? How do I make an RFE?
19:18:31 <andrewsw> and, for the record, ttick I don't think anyone actually tracks their mortgage that way, it's just an idea.
19:18:47 <ttick> oh. how do people normally do it? All in one?
19:18:56 <andrewsw> yes.
19:19:06 <andrewsw> just seeing your example above prompted me to think of it.
19:19:23 <ttick> they don't care about how much pre-payment they've made?
19:19:37 <andrewsw> I don't think there's anything wrong with it, though, the net result is the same.
19:20:01 <ttick> geez, I always love looking at that number -- it's kinda "how much I've been investing" number.
19:20:46 <andrewsw> sure. you could just make it a separate split in the mortgage pmt txn. Then it would stand out.
19:20:51 <ttick> also something I announce to my wife to cheer her on to save.
19:21:22 <andrewsw> does it work? maybe you could come do that for my wife too?
19:21:47 <ttick> OKay, I'll buy you a set of pom-poms. It only works when I get them out to do the cheer.
19:22:22 <andrewsw> hmmm... that sounds like it might get a little kinky... ;)
19:22:29 <ttick> only if it works.
19:26:39 <ttick> btw: do I put my RFE on the 'wishlist'? Or is there an RFE tracker out there?
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19:27:05 <andrewsw> bugzilla.gnome.org ENhancement bug
19:27:44 <ttick> for gnome? not gnucash?
19:27:59 <andrewsw> gnucash tracks bugs on gnome's bugzilla
19:28:09 <andrewsw> you can search for gnucash, you'll see
19:28:35 <andrewsw> I think we're near the top for most # of bugs! gnucash FTW!
19:28:35 <ttick> ah
19:28:41 <ttick> woohoo!
19:36:53 <ttick> hmm, how do I make it an "enhancement" instead of a defect?
19:37:24 <ttick> or I just file it as a bug -- which sounds rude to me. (this software is defective because it doesn't do what I would like) ?
19:37:45 <andrewsw> you can select the ... hold on let me surf over there.
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19:38:27 <ttick> ah, found it: severity - enhancement
19:38:29 <andrewsw> ttick: one of the options for "Severity" is "enhancement".
19:38:33 <andrewsw> ding ding dign
19:39:03 <ttick> hmm, "General User Interface" as the category?
19:39:08 <andrewsw> SO yes, technically it's not a bug but it sure is a convenient way to track stuff.
19:39:50 <andrewsw> ummm. yes or maybe "register" as that's the part of the code that would have to handle it...
19:43:52 <ttick> "Bug 507576 has been added to the database"
19:44:53 <andrewsw> very nice.
19:49:04 <ttick> okay, now the account is only $2.67 off balance. Nice!
19:49:50 <ttick> of course, now it's very hard to find where the diviation is. But still -- I'll take it.
19:51:23 <andrewsw> :)
20:01:05 <sarah> jsled: I read some mailing list entries from 2005 about using scheduled transactions to create a budget. Has that work ever been completed?
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20:16:08 <warlord> elb: QIF lets you map to various income/expense accounts, but it defaults to "Unkonwn". But you can go through and map them manually.
20:18:38 <elb> so, I could create a QIF with a mapping in it?
20:19:29 <elb> basically, wht I want to do is be able to enter transactions on a portable device (amount, to/from accounts) in an application which handles only *transactions*, not the accounts themselves, then import those transactions without modification into gnucash proper
20:19:55 <warlord> Sure.
20:20:09 <warlord> You could use qif Categories to pre-populate the selections, even.
20:20:34 <warlord> So instead of using P[ayee] or M[emo] to map to income/expense accounts, you can use the L[Category]
20:20:49 <elb> ok, I need to look at QIF, then
20:20:58 <elb> the QIFs I get from my banks are not nearly this useful ;-)
20:21:05 <andrewsw> it also works with E[split-category]
20:21:26 <warlord> No, they wouldn't be.
20:21:56 <andrewsw> sorry S[plit-category]
20:22:06 <andrewsw> E is the split memo
20:22:18 <elb> ideally, I would sync my account structure from gnucash->PDA, and then be able to select accounts on the PDA from a dropdown just like in gnucash, and have them entered correctly on importing the QIF produced by the PDA (or whatever)
20:23:03 <elb> I always intended to write such an app for my Palm back in the day, but never got around to it ... I'll be getting a Nokia N810 soon, though, which I'm more likely to actually do something about
20:24:42 <elb> incidentally, at the turn of every new year, it always bugs me that December dates default to this year, and not last -- I always feel like gnucash should use a sliding window date system, where dates which would be more than 6mo (or 9mo, or whatever cutoff) in the future are recorded as in the past
20:27:19 <warlord> Send a patch.
20:27:41 <elb> I'll put it on my TODO ;-)
20:29:48 <warlord> ok
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20:41:54 <andi5> Q: anyone with a new wording? http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2008-January/022009.html
20:46:17 <warlord> cstim's suggested wording is fine with me.
20:47:09 <andi5> btw, what is correct: system's or systems?
20:49:06 <warlord> depends on the context.
20:50:15 <cortana> andi5: in this context, system's
20:50:27 <cortana> the 's means that the thing you're talking about belongs to 'the system'
20:51:04 <cortana> btw, what is 'the system's locale setting'?
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20:51:10 <cortana> might it be more accurate to say 'the current locale setting'?
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20:58:41 <andi5> cortana: thanks... [in german apostrophes are only used when there something omitted]
21:01:17 <warlord> andi5: in English it's used both to signify that something is missing, but also sometimes to signify a possessive.
21:01:43 <andi5> yeah, i just read the grammar rules and they are pretty easy, actually :)
21:02:45 <cortana> the tricky thing is "it's"
21:02:58 <andi5> ha, tricky ;-)
21:03:00 <cortana> it means 'it is'
21:03:08 <cortana> if something belongs to something then you use "its"
21:03:17 <cortana> bloody langauge
21:03:22 <cortana> *language
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21:04:16 <andi5> rule: do not use an apostrophe for possessive pronouns :-D ... well, back to the topic =)
21:04:49 <warlord> heh
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21:08:03 <andi5> cortana: strictly speaking you are right about the "current locale setting", because "system's" sounds as if there is the same for all processes... but i guess cstim's [<--] suggestion is fine
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