2008-01-01 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:32:10 <lindi-> dale: you mean it's inconvenient to have to "jump" to the other account?
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10:12:38 <jsled> dale: you can, though it might not be obvious if you're not in Auto-Split or Transaction Jounral register view modes, or don't have the transaction "split" via the toolbar/menu action.
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12:42:55 <dale> lindi-, jsled: Yes, from an untrained eye, I would expect there to be a single set of records per transcation, and the expense accounts would simply be filtered views of the asset account.
12:43:40 <dale> I would expect to be able to reassigna transaction from any account "view". It may already be there, but it isn't obvious where.
12:44:08 <dale> obvious to me is frying-pna-in-the-face though...
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13:01:05 <jsled> Yes, you can reassign transactions from any account view.
13:01:33 <jsled> Don't think of the Expense accounts as "filtered views of the asset account", though.
13:01:44 <jsled> Asset registers and Expense registers are co-equal.
13:02:01 <jsled> They're all just views of all Transactions that have any Split that references the Account.
13:02:46 <jsled> FWIW, I think the default register view should be Auto-Split, not "Basic Ledger", in part because it's truer to reality.\
13:03:12 <jsled> Though "Basic Ledger" is less threatening to people who just want a simple checkbook-style app.
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13:04:16 <jsled> Regardless, once you change the "Transfer" account of the Split that "anchors" the transaction to the current register/view (and enter/commit it) that Transaction will disappear from the register.
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13:15:00 <w> jsled, would it maybe be better to have an option that lets someone indicate their familiarity with the system and then set basic ledger or auto-split based on that?
13:37:01 <jsled> no.
13:37:49 <jsled> I don't think so, anyways. If they want something else, they can change the default view.
13:39:01 <jsled> But we should default to the least-confusing view. While "basic ledger" is least-confusing in one way, any of the split-view modes are least-confusing overall for the data model of the app.
13:39:22 <jsled> While we like to make it easy for people to practice double-entry, we shouldn't hide the fact that we're a double-entry app.
13:39:42 <jsled> And showing the Split that relates the transaction to the register does that.
13:39:53 <jsled> As well as establishing the relation between the credit/debit columns.
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13:47:57 <dale> Whne looking at the expense accounts, they don't show the same view as the main asset account - at least not by default.
13:48:14 <dale> I have been rummaging around looking for the place to change that.
13:49:19 <jsled> What do you mean by "same view"
13:49:20 <jsled> ?
13:50:53 <dale> Example: I have set up a simple checking account from the wizard -- imported .OFX formatted donwloads from the bank
13:51:14 <dale> and set up various expense accounts
13:51:42 <dale> during import sometimes I assign things to the wrog account (too much drink, you know..)
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13:52:33 <dale> After the import, I open each expense account and do sanity checks on the contents -- and I see an transaction that's obviously "dry cleaning" in the "booze" account
13:52:34 <arnold007> hi
13:53:17 <jsled> Then you mis-categorized it...
13:53:41 <dale> As it si now, I have to open the main asset account of the checking and locate the transaction I see by locating the approximate date, and making the accoutn change there -- rather than directly from the expense acount view.
13:53:42 <jsled> Or there's another split that ties it to the Expense account.'
13:53:57 <arnold007> Anyone here speaks German?
13:54:35 <jsled> dale: Why? Any change you can make from the Asset account you can make from the Expense account. Unless the transaction isn't listed in the correct Expense account, which might be what you're saying.
13:54:42 <dale> Yes, it's for sure goof on my part -- but (just from a dummies persepctive) I would assume that I shoudl be able to reassign the transaction from within the account view
13:55:08 <dale> I can't -- or at least I can't give the default set of viewable columns.
13:55:30 <dale> It isn't -- it has been misassigned.
13:55:31 <jsled> "default set of viewable columns"?
13:55:48 <dale> yea, if I open an expense accoutn, I see only ..
13:57:09 <dale> Date, Num, Description,Transfer,"R", and so on...
13:57:48 <dale> In the main account the "Transfer" column is different... from there you can assign the transaction to different accounts, where as I can't in the Expense account
13:58:02 <dale> Is it just me? (probably..)
13:59:07 <dale> Maybe I just haven't flipped the appropriate bit somehwere
13:59:23 <dale> No big deal though -- opening two windows is not such a big issue.
14:00:30 <arnold007> where can i chance the language? gnucash is allways in german
14:00:54 <jsled> dale: uh, I don't believe you. The Transfer account is visible on all registers.
14:01:04 <lindi-> dale: screenshot?
14:01:04 <jsled> Unless your columns are really strangely mis-sized or something.
14:01:08 <jsled> yeah...
14:01:09 <dale> And more importantly I need to learn more about double entry. Still getting a handle on that.
14:01:29 <dale> OK, um,
14:01:31 <dale> where?
14:01:44 <jsled> arnold007: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_want_to_use_GnuCash_in_my_own_language_.28Debian_users_may_need_it.29
14:02:02 <jsled> dale: where what?
14:02:24 <dale> I was scrolling back to see if I still had the URL to pastebin
14:02:38 <jsled> Ah, but they won't take pics anyways.
14:02:45 <arnold007> jsled: thanks but i use winxp
14:03:00 <jsled> arnold007: I believe the principal is the same.
14:03:10 <jsled> And maybe the environment variable names, evne.
14:03:16 <jsled> Find and edit gnucash.bat
14:03:40 <arnold007> jsled: ok
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14:15:17 <Ciccio> hi
14:15:20 <Ciccio> need some help with gnucash
14:15:31 <Ciccio> I use it to manage my small society business
14:15:45 <Ciccio> now I have to "change" activity year...
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14:15:55 <Ciccio> so restarting with invoice numeration and so on...
14:16:16 <Ciccio> I haven't found any option to do it
14:16:35 <Ciccio> and I thought to solve this task exporting my schema to a new gnucash file...
14:17:06 <arnold007> jsled: ok now it works :)
14:17:27 <Ciccio> but doing this way I loose all "contacts" data...
14:17:51 <Ciccio> such customers...
14:17:54 <Ciccio> and so on...
14:18:02 <Ciccio> is there something I'm missing about?
14:20:28 <arnold007> thanks cu@all
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14:22:18 <Ciccio> nobody is able to give me some hints?
14:22:23 <jsled> Ciccio: no, you're not. We don't have an export that preserves customers, vendors, &c.
14:22:33 <jsled> Ciccio: patience. IRC can be a slow medium.
14:22:42 <Ciccio> thanks
14:22:54 <Ciccio> so no way to go over next business year?
14:23:11 <Ciccio> just start again from beginning?
14:23:22 <Ciccio> reinserting by hand all data?
14:24:23 <jsled> Unfortunately, yes. If you want to get adventurous, you could try copy/pasting the relevant sections between the datafiles.
14:24:37 <jsled> Also, if you do File > Export > Export Accounts, you'll at least get the same account tree. But no transactions.
14:25:31 <Ciccio> that's what I did... exported accounts just to have same structure between years...
14:25:55 <Ciccio> I think it should be coded soon to make invoicing and business managing useful...
14:26:43 <jsled> patches welcome. :)
14:26:47 <Ciccio> or better again, the ability to make invoicing restart with new years...
14:27:00 <Ciccio> but this I think could be just harder and longer to do...
14:27:08 <Ciccio> ;)
14:27:11 <jsled> Note that Derek's been working on some "book zeroing" support on trunk, which should do the trick.
14:27:18 <jsled> It might make it into 2.2.3, even.
14:27:27 <Ciccio> wonderful...
14:28:16 <Ciccio> right I'm here... I ask... and invoice can't be deleted as I understood (just if open wrongly for example)...
14:31:29 <jsled> Ciccio: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_can_I_delete_an_Invoice.2C_Customer.2C_Vendor.2C_or_Employee.3F
14:34:38 <Ciccio> thanks... again ;)
14:34:48 <Ciccio> have to go now... bye
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14:39:42 <melanie> Hi everybody. It's the first time I ask for help for Gnucash, I'm french and I don't know the english vocabulary for my problem so I will try to be as explicit as I can.
14:40:57 <melanie> I just want to compare my bank total with th etotal I calculated with Gnucash. When I open the window, when I want to click on "Finish", the button is inactif (grey).
14:41:24 <melanie> Can someone tell me the possibilities why I can not click on this button ?
14:41:43 <melanie> I probably made a mistake somewehere but I can't find what...
14:43:32 <jsled> melanie: using the Reconciliation? All of the transactions on both sides (Funds In and Funds Out) must have a check in the right-most "R" column.
14:44:17 <melanie> yes i think i'm talking about "reconciliation".
14:44:58 <melanie> i'm trying
14:45:48 <melanie> jsled, you are saying that I have to check all the lines ?
14:46:01 <jsled> yes.
14:46:12 <jsled> This is the point of reconciliation, that you've checked all of the lines.
14:46:17 <jsled> s/lines/transactions/
14:46:20 <melanie> I've done it but there is still the problem
14:46:38 <melanie> I can't finish.
14:46:54 <jsled> Double check. Even if there's one row without a checkmark, the Finish button will not appear.
14:49:59 <melanie> even if i check or uncheck all the line, I can't finish
14:50:44 <melanie> (i'm talking about the green circle button ok ?)
14:50:58 <melanie> (when i say "finish")
14:51:18 <jsled> Yes, I know the button.
14:51:52 <melanie> ok, i just wanted to know if we are talking about the same button.
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14:53:12 <melanie> do you have another idea ?
14:53:36 <jsled> let me take a look at what the code is doing.
14:53:44 <jsled> (I never use the reconciliation, myself)
14:54:13 <melanie> I've tried with another account and i can do it. this is not a bug. I don't know what i've done...
14:55:05 <jsled> If any other devs are watching, I'm almost done applying the splash progress bar patch from http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506714
14:56:25 <jsled> So, the actual condition is "gnc_numeric_zero_p(diff)" ... if "diff" (a GncNumeric) is zero.
14:56:48 <jsled> diff = gnc_numeric_sub_fixed(ending, reconciled);
15:00:10 <jsled> So, what's the "Difference" in the very bottom right hand of the dialog?
15:01:32 <melanie> are you talking to me ?
15:01:34 <jsled> Yes.
15:02:11 <melanie> bottom right hand ?
15:02:33 <melanie> dpnt understand
15:02:52 <jsled> yeah ... in the lower right side of the dialog is a box of values: Starting Balance, Ending Balance, Reconciled Balance and Difference.
15:03:17 <melanie> can i change language of gnucash somewhere ?
15:03:26 <melanie> it will be more easy
15:03:41 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_want_to_use_GnuCash_in_my_own_language_.28Debian_users_may_need_it.29
15:03:52 <jsled> but, I can find the translation... hold.
15:04:15 <jsled> "Différence" :)
15:04:34 <jsled> Starting Balance -> "Solde du début"
15:04:47 <jsled> Ending Balance -> "Solde _final"
15:05:01 <jsled> Reconciled Balance -> Solde rapproché
15:05:05 <melanie> ok :)
15:06:22 <melanie> starting : 169.14 / ending 227.21 / reconcilied 55.41
15:06:37 <melanie> difference 171.80
15:07:10 <jsled> Right. So, until that difference is 0, you can't finish the reconciliation.
15:07:22 <jsled> As it is right now, things are not reconciled, if there's a difference of 171.80.
15:07:46 <jsled> So, something's missing. You didn't enter a receipt, or the bank over-charged you, or maybe there's a duplicate transaction, or ...
15:07:49 <jsled> hard to say.
15:09:32 <melanie> i've done a fake line, now my "reconciled" is 0, I can't finish too
15:09:58 <melanie> wow wait
15:11:26 <melanie> ok
15:11:40 <melanie> with a fake line to make "difference" to 0 it works
15:12:03 <melanie> thank you very much :) I don't know what i've done but I can continue now :)
15:12:33 <jsled> Well, that "fake" line shouldn't be there, right? I mean, if you need it, then your books and the bank's books are different.
15:12:38 <jsled> So, you should track down why that is.
15:13:17 <jsled> Unless, of course, you don't care. But if that's true, why reconcile at all?
15:13:45 <melanie> yes of course. Now i'm sure that I'm the problem :) I missed something
15:14:03 <jsled> Okay … just making sure. :)
15:14:06 <melanie> :)
15:15:31 <melanie> thanks again for giving your time :)
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17:46:47 <Candis> can I import my quickbooks data into gnucash?
17:49:35 <jsled> Quickbooks? No.
17:49:55 <jsled> We support import of QIF, OFX/QFX and some other formats, but not Quickbooks.
17:53:38 <Candis> does gnucash run on windows?
17:54:18 * Candis reads the FAQ
17:54:26 <jsled> yes, as of 2.2.0
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18:07:09 <Candis> have the 2.2 docs been published anywhere?
18:09:47 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
18:10:02 <warlord> no, because there's no real diff between 2.0 and 2.2 except win32
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19:44:02 <dezinho> users
19:44:06 <dezinho> q
19:44:07 <dezinho> quit
19:44:13 <dezinho> exit
19:44:42 <dezinho> quit
19:44:43 <dezinho> exit
19:44:48 <dezinho> exit
19:44:51 <dezinho> q!
19:44:53 <dezinho> 1:1
19:44:57 <dezinho> :q!
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19:48:47 <dezinho> is there a printable version of gnucash tutorial and concepts guide doc?
19:53:17 <thomas> http://www.object-refinery.com/gnucash/index.html
19:53:51 <thomas> there is a pdf user's guide that you should be able to print
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20:25:48 <thechris> is there an easy way to set up a kind of "virtual" account
20:26:29 <thechris> eg, if i wanted to add $50/wk to a "personal projects" account that doesn't actually exist, how would i do that
20:26:55 <thechris> assuming I want GNU Cash to match the totals in each physical account.
20:27:09 <w> Just create it as a subaccount
20:27:54 <thechris> i guess that would work so long as the value only came from one account
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20:29:44 <w> Is it something you are going to keep in your bank account?
20:30:35 <thechris> well, for personal projects, not being important, I might want to keep shares of equities or bonds as well
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20:31:08 <thechris> that way if the market does well i do the non-time critical vacationing/ect...
20:31:30 <w> Maybe I'm not understanding what you want to do then.
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20:32:11 <thechris> eg, lets say i know I will want to have some vacation money or such
20:32:14 <warlord> No, there's not really a way to support that.
20:32:25 <warlord> It sounds like what you want are QIF Classes.
20:32:54 <thechris> each week I place money into the virtual fund, which exists only on paper
20:33:34 <thechris> but this means any large savings, like new roofing or such will force me to save a lot in my bank.
20:34:14 <thechris> if the project isn't time-critical, i'd like to allocate some cash, and some securities for the project
20:34:47 <w> I think your only option would be a subaccount, but I don't know how that would work using cash and securities
20:36:12 <thechris> i guess i could make a "Virtual" folder, and then place the cash/securities as sub accounts, and then transfer money from the respective account to the virtual account, then transfer from imbalence back to the actual accounts
20:36:40 <warlord> Well if you're allocating, then yes, you want it in a subaccount.. But when you PAY for it you don't have to do that. You could have a split from Checking, Stock, etc -> Expenses:Thing
20:36:40 <thechris> i think the imbalence should then equal my virtual account amount unless there is an actual imbalence
20:37:37 <thechris> i wonder if theres a way to do this with budgeting
20:37:57 <w> warlord, I found something on the mailing list from 2000 about QIF classes being a new feature in gnucash. Were they at one point?
20:39:21 <thechris> or i guess I could always make a transfer from an account to itself with a keyword in the memo field, then export to a file and write a script to determine the total value of the "virtual" account
20:40:06 <w> If you're going to go to that length, why not just track that outside of gnucash?
20:40:40 <thechris> gnucash updates securities easily
20:40:51 <thechris> though i guess that would be possible
20:41:22 <warlord> w: AFAIK it was never implemented. But you could possibly use something like the Action or Notes or Memo to mark a txn.
20:42:30 <w> Well I just did a quick search and it was one of the top results. I'd never heard of it. The post also talked about tagging support.
20:43:48 <warlord> I dont think any of that was ever implemented
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20:46:53 <w> That's a shame. Sounds like it could have been useful. Any reason that you know of?
20:47:15 <john> Hi I am having trouble setting up mutual fund accounts. They are not totalling to the parent account, John
20:57:57 <thechris> how do you mean?
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21:06:04 <wharp> warlord, so far every reporting tool I've come across is written in java
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21:14:40 <john> The cash position in this set of investments and the stock total to the parent account but not the mutual fund accounts. Am I doing something wrong?
21:16:56 <cekz> Hi, I am new to this software, I am trying to figure out how I can import .ofx files. Only "Import QIF" is available under "Import"
21:20:45 <cekz> I see that aqbanking provides "OFX direct connect" but my bank doesnt provide such service.
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21:25:38 <dale> jsled: Sorry for the dealy - I can't figure out a way to send you this print screen. I can try to walk you through what I'm seeing.
21:26:07 <dale> s/dealy/delay
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21:28:01 <john> My parent account is set up with the default settings. The Security/Currency is set for CAD, and it doesn't seem to matter whether I set the account type to asset, bank it will not total. If I move away from the account type mutual fund I am then stuck with entering a commodity rather than currency.
21:28:47 <thechris> this is a mutal fund, correct?
21:31:33 <john> Yes Chris I have about five mutual funds totalling to the parent account.
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21:32:27 <thechris> ah, that makes sense. how much is it off by?
21:33:42 <john> None of them are showing up in the total so its off by several 100k
21:34:27 <thechris> ah, you need to go to the "price editor" and set the security prices. if you set up online quotes this will be a simple "get quotes"
21:35:05 <thechris> gnucash know how much you paid for the securities, but has no idea what they are worth now, so it gives you the 0
21:36:13 <thechris> (symbols are case sensitive, so things will probably be like INTC or AMD or PCU, or such)
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21:39:53 <john> I am setting up a new set of books so these are in my opening position. I have been setting the price a split transaction using Equity:Opening Balances
21:40:13 <thechris> i'm actually doing the same
21:40:22 <thechris> must be something about it being jan1
21:41:31 <thechris> for me, i simply placed the num shares owned, looked up current share price and placed a "buy" at that amount. unfortunantly this doesn't tell me if I have a loss/profit at this time, but i'm a bit lazy anyways
21:41:52 <thechris> the buy came from "opening balences"
21:42:22 <thechris> each security had the symbol entered, as well as the ability to get online quotes
21:42:50 <thechris> so i just went to menu:tools:price editor and did a "get quotes"
21:43:03 <john> That is what I have been doing but I have not graduated to getting on-line quotes.
21:43:38 <thechris> ah, i'd just get the online quotes unless you have unlisted securities
21:44:05 <thechris> which reminds me, i forgot to add my private equity into my account.
21:44:19 <dale> Is there a "gnucash for dummy non-accountants setting up a checkbook.savings.credit card type stuff" book, howto, or anything? I feel incredibly stupid at this point.
21:45:03 <thechris> dale: there are some, including the help. what do you need help with?
21:45:12 <john> I see now what I missed before and it is working. Thank you for your help.
21:45:12 <dale> Been through the online docs arlready - either over my head or don't go into sufficient detail to answer my questions...
21:45:31 <thechris> john: no problem
21:45:35 <dale> And I really hate interupting you guys with really dumb questions.
21:46:01 <dale> And these are really dumb, I just know it.
21:46:01 <thechris> well, more then likely the channel will just be dead for a long time otherwise
21:46:09 <thechris> like?
21:46:18 <john> Can I ask another question, for the on-line quotes does it matter if the shares are traded in Toronto?
21:46:43 <thechris> john: where do you live?
21:47:12 <john> Port Alberni, B.C., Canada
21:47:16 <thechris> GNUCash should have sources for canadian stock exchange
21:48:12 <thechris> simply set "quote source, multiple, canada" or "canada mutual"
21:49:19 <thechris> i've never purchased any CDN stock, so i can't say how well it works in canada, but the USA online quotes work well, and i'd assume the same for CDN
21:49:47 <thechris> dale: any immediate Q's?
21:49:50 <dale> Income account transactions - how do I move them from one account to another? When importing from bank downloads, several went to the wrong account. When I open the Income account, and select the Transfer column to change the account, it shows it changed, but decreases the total of the account where the transaction should now reside.
21:50:34 <dale> mucking about with the transactions they either disappear and.or end up in an "Imbalance-USD" account ..
21:50:40 <john> OK I will try that tomorrow. Thank you once again for your help and I am impressed with the range of currencies having spent the first half of the year in Vanuatu
21:51:56 <thechris> dale: gnucash is a balenced accouting system, all transactions come from someplace, and end up someplace
21:52:23 <thechris> if you fail to say where something came from/went it defaults to "imbalence"
21:53:33 <dale> This is where I get stupid -- I'm not trying to create new transactions -- just move an exisiting one.
21:53:52 <thechris> should be able to change that on the ledger
21:53:57 <dale> In Expense accounts this seems to work. I think.
21:54:14 <thechris> double click on the bank account to access the ledger
21:54:32 <thechris> find the deposit, and change the source to "income"
21:54:46 <dale> And income transactions don't show up in the bank account under "Assett"
21:55:20 <dale> Or at leat these didn't -- I didn't look for them until after I mucked around with them...
21:55:32 <dale> probably screwed the transcation up
21:55:50 <thechris> how are you adding transactions?
21:56:04 <dale> Through .OFX imports
21:56:25 <dale> No manual entries at all.
21:57:29 <thechris> hmm, not sure then. you probably forgot to make some of the deposites
21:57:53 <thechris> you can always open the Imbalence-USD ledger to see what transactions had no source
21:59:30 <dale> I just opened an .xac file from prior to mucking about with this -- can I walk you through what I did to produce the issue?
22:01:41 <thechris> ok
22:02:41 <dale> Imagine: Simpel checking account type setup: I manually add several "Income accounts" - Mine, wife's, other and "Store Returns" to account for the wife's incessant refunds from returns to the store
22:03:07 <dale> I want to see how much "return traffic" I'm seeing.
22:03:52 <dale> when importiing the last years worth of transactions from the bank, some of the transactions that should be "store return" end up in "Other".
22:04:51 <dale> I open the Income:other account and look thorugh a short list and see 4 or 5 transactions that I would rather have appear in income:store returns.
22:05:42 <thechris> ahh
22:05:55 <dale> I click on the "Transfer" column that now has the ..currentAssets:checking label. (can't cut and paste ;( )
22:06:11 <dale> This works in the Expense accounts....
22:06:28 <dale> I can move a transaction from one expense account to another...
22:06:58 <thechris> have you tried moving the income source from the bank's ledger instead?
22:06:59 <dale> However, when doing this with the Income account.... (I was talking to jsled about this earlier and tried to send him some screen prints...)
22:07:33 <dale> I just tried opening the main Asset account with the checking account title. That seemed to work. Let me refresh to verify
22:08:46 <dale> Yes, that seems to work as anticipated.
22:10:16 <dale> Why are the transactions treated differently from the same (or appears to be) the same interface?
22:11:31 <dale> Keep in mind, I know nothing about doube entry bookeeping - but from an interface perspective, I'd expect the same behavior. I'm sure there is a good readon for it not behaving that way -- just makes a tougher learnign curve.
22:12:18 <dale> When I get to the point of adding a savings account.... backups are a good thing.
22:14:31 <dale> The tutorial and concept guide has nothing in it about moving transactions like that. I spent a couple of day figuring out how to move Expense account transactions.
22:16:47 <dale> Will moving an expense account transaction from within the expense account view throw things off too? The income account was small enough I noticed the change in the total right away. Haven't paid too much attention to the expense accounts.
22:25:27 <dale> Jeezzzz..... Now the Expense accounts are doing the same thing.
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22:27:38 <dale> I know I was able to move some of those expense transactions earlier with them doing this. I'm realy not crazy... But I am beginning to have doubts.
22:29:07 <dale> Am I just stupid?
22:29:13 <dale> Feel like it.
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22:30:47 <dale> Hell with it. I just need to track a checkbook. It's not this hard.
22:30:49 <dale> Thanks
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23:21:15 <jsled> damnit.
23:22:11 <thechris> ?
23:22:21 <jsled> Oh ... dale.
23:22:45 <thechris> oh, yeah, i actually was building a desk at the time.
23:22:47 <jsled> I think he just need to use the View menu to see the transactions a bit differently.
23:24:31 <thechris> hmm, is there a way to select a group of transactions, and determine easily the balence on them
23:24:34 <jsled> no.
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23:56:22 <d3ity> Hey guys, having some trouble getting HBCI to work for PNC bank... I've done a little googling and found a few people stating this does not work. Can someone help lead me to the proper settings or confirm it doesn't work?