2007-12-21 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:06:12 <overbudget> Aloha! I just installed 2.2.2 for Windows on XP. How come it wants to contact some random DNS server whenever it starts up? TechNet, Akamai, Google. Example: 209.85.201.17:DNS
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00:22:28 <dbreiser> there's been some discussion of this surrounding orbit's behavior. When did you download 2.2.2?
00:23:08 <dbreiser> I think they made another release that simply forced gnucash to take included orbit dll's rather than build the defaults
00:23:34 <dbreiser> if you got 2.2.2 on Monday, look for a setup.exe with a newer date
00:23:59 <dbreiser> I haven't been watching the windows stuff closely, so I may be off-base
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01:44:28 <blahdeblah> OK - i'm officially being driven crazy
01:44:55 <blahdeblah> I accidentally hit "Add reversing transaction" in the menu when a posted invoice was selected.
01:45:08 <blahdeblah> Now i can't remove it because it says i have to unpost the invoice first.
01:45:34 <blahdeblah> So i did that, and then tried to delete it, and it gives the same result - you have to unpost the invoice first, even though it *is* unposted.
01:46:09 <blahdeblah> The best i could do was select the accidentally added reversing transaction and add another transaction reversing it.
01:46:24 <blahdeblah> Now both transactions can't be deleted because they say the invoice must be unposted!
01:46:33 <blahdeblah> Am i crazy? :-\
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02:08:10 <overbudget> dbreiser: help/about says "built from r16676 on 2007-12-17 which does seem to be the Monday edition, but I can't find anything newer. I came across bug #363648 at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363648 which sometimes sounds like my situation and does appear to be an orbit bug, but the date and time on the patched orbit files that are appended at the very end are the same as the files in my gnucash directory and it looks like that
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08:34:08 <warlord> blahdeblah: INTERESTING! It copied the KVP information that says that points to the invoice, but obviously the invoice knows nothing about it.. So it's completely unremovable!
08:34:27 <warlord> blahdeblah: I recommend you go to a backup data file, because no, there's no way to remove those transactions.
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09:02:03 <wharp> Would sharing one data file between two different users cause any problems?
09:02:20 <jsled> not as long as you respect the lock and filesystem permissions.
09:02:44 <wharp> Well It would be on the same system so there'd be no way we could both be in it at the same time.
09:02:47 <wharp> Or almost no way.
09:03:17 <jsled> Ah. Then permissions would be the biggest "obstacle", but that's just normal unix filesystem permissions.
09:04:01 <wharp> Right, I knew that I would need to deal with that, but that's simple
09:04:27 <wharp> Would there be any way to share the same custom reports other than just copying them between the two report dirs?
09:04:59 <jsled> That's correct.
09:05:06 <jsled> The ~/.gnucash/saved-reports-2.0 file.
09:05:22 <jsled> *open* reports are stored in ~/.gnucash/books/«data-file-base-name»
09:06:01 <wharp> Thanks.
09:06:22 <wharp> I'd really like to be able to contribute to gnucash in some way. What's the biggest need the project has?
09:06:48 <jsled> dev resources.
09:07:07 <wharp> I was afraid that would be the case.
09:07:12 <jsled> If you're not inclined that way, testing and documentation update is good too; some of the docs are pretty out of date.
09:07:15 <wharp> What languages is it written in?
09:07:26 <wharp> I can do documentation probably.
09:07:28 <jsled> ~85% C, balance in scheme.
09:07:35 <wharp> ok
09:07:49 <jsled> (A couple of major pieces are in scheme: reports. QIF importer.)
09:08:04 <wharp> Yeah, I thought the reports were in scheme. That's what I"d love to be able to work on
09:08:32 <jsled> Well, scheme's not bad. Or even all that foreign once you get past that it doesn't look like every other language.
09:09:06 <wharp> Well I do have programming experience, though not much. I could probably pick it up given some time, which I seem to lack at the moment.
09:09:26 <jsled> I know the feeling. :)
09:09:46 <wharp> Between the 6 month old, trying to start a LUG and work.
09:09:49 <wharp> Oh yeah, I have to sleep to
09:09:53 <warlord> Time? what's that?
09:09:57 <jsled> damn sleep.
09:10:04 <wharp> Yeah, its always sleep's fault.
09:10:40 <wharp> I scheme an older language? I'd never heard of it before gnucash.
09:11:03 <jsled> scheme is a dialect of lisp, one of the oldest.
09:11:21 <wharp> Yeah, that's what wikipedia says too. Now Lisp I've heard of.
09:11:23 <jsled> (And still one of the best.)
09:11:58 <jsled> (biab)
09:12:38 <wharp> lol
09:21:01 <wharp> Is there a way I can get the source and tinker with it without messing up the version from the repo that I normally use?
09:23:06 <warlord> MAYBE..
09:23:13 <warlord> You can install a version into /opt/gnucash
09:24:07 <wharp> Would it be safer to create another user to it doesn't mess with my prefs for gnucash?
09:35:19 <warlord> If you dont want to mess your prefs, then yes. ;)
09:35:50 <wharp> Well I wasn't sure how much it could actually screw things up.
09:35:53 <jsled> Though the prefs are pretty static.
09:36:00 <warlord> Right
09:36:12 <jsled> I mean, I haven't done that for any 2.0 or 2.2 development/testing.
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09:39:50 <wharp> Well being me, I'm sure I can really screw some stuff up. I can walk in a room with a mac and have it stop working.
09:40:03 <wharp> All my friends show me their shiny new mac, and it never fails, it just stops working.
09:40:07 <jsled> Rent out your services!
09:40:10 <jsled> :)
09:40:22 <wharp> Now, with a PC, I can walk in a room and it magically fixes itself. But that's my job.
09:41:13 <warlord> heheh
09:41:23 <warlord> My Ex was like that.
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10:23:38 <wharp> If I'm going to learn scheme, do I need to get a book on scheme in particular, or will a regular lisp book do just as well?
10:24:39 <warlord> To learn the syntax, a book on lisp would be fine.
10:24:51 <warlord> To learn the actual semantics, you could just use the online scheme reference
10:25:00 <wharp> Ok
10:25:07 <wharp> Any book in particular you'd recommend?
10:27:12 <warlord> google for MIT Scheme Reference
10:27:53 <wharp> Yeah, I saw that one. I'm looking at Amazon, but its kinda hard to know which book is actually going to be worht it
10:28:32 <warlord> SICP
10:30:37 <wharp> meaning Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs?
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10:38:13 <warlord> Yep
10:39:31 <wharp> Do ya'll just use emacs for scheme? I'm seeing that there's not much of an IDE available.
10:39:45 <warlord> I think most of us use emacs for everything.
10:39:48 <warlord> (I know I do)
10:46:00 <warlord> BIAB.
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11:09:03 * jsled too.
11:09:16 <jsled> There's been some use of Ajunta (or whatever it is)
11:09:36 <wharp> Aunt Jemima?
11:09:47 <jsled> I don't think that's it. :)
11:10:03 <wharp> lol
11:10:36 <wharp> yeah,Anjuta devStudio
11:16:01 <wharp> Ajunta for Scheme?
11:16:06 <wharp> Or did you mean C
11:16:34 <jsled> Oh, I was thinking for C. Sorry, had just got off the phone.
11:17:11 <jsled> Yeah, emacs is certainly going to be on the list for scheme ides, though.
11:17:31 <wharp> np
11:17:40 <wharp> I'm not really sure there is a list
11:17:40 <wharp> lol
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12:03:17 <andrewsw> wharp: I wonder if you could ln -s ~/.gnucash to share reports and other config items. That assumes you both work the same way though.
12:06:11 <andrewsw> reports in perl! Total=#$%&@**&*$%#?|\/34@#*7$
12:06:25 <jsled> heh.
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12:08:44 <warlord> what's wrong with PERL? ;) I'd be happy with that
12:09:51 <andrewsw> in all honesty I don't care one way or another. And I really like my idea of an external report repository...
12:10:03 <jsled> why external?
12:10:26 <warlord> why?
12:10:33 <warlord> It makes it much harder for users that way
12:11:01 <andrewsw> I don't mean in lieu of the current system or a reimplemented system.
12:11:20 <andrewsw> I just see many users asking for reports in this or that language, why not just provide an interface (handwave) and let
12:11:27 <andrewsw> them use what they want?
12:12:18 <wharp> Honestly, no offense to you guys, but I would love another way to do reports.
12:13:01 <warlord> andrewsw: because (handwave) is probably much more complicated than you think.
12:13:12 <warlord> wharp: define "another way"
12:13:21 <jsled> They're free to. It's more a question of a) what do we distribute/maintain and b) what does that imply for the build/packaging?
12:13:25 <andrewsw> warlord: I'm sure, hence the handwave
12:13:37 <warlord> nobody here wants to keep the scheme reporting "language"
12:14:41 <wharp> warlord, Just something with a bit more features maybe. I do sort of like the idea of something external, but I also think that's a bad idea.
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12:15:08 <wharp> Maybe somehow a more distinct feel to the reporting component
12:15:19 <wharp> So nobody really likes that they're written in scheme?
12:15:20 <warlord> define "external".. I see little reason for an external repository, because if a report is interesting enough that multiple people want it I see little reason not to ship it with gnucash.
12:15:45 <warlord> Well, nobody likes that they are scheme scriptlets that generate HTML.
12:15:46 <wharp> true
12:16:32 <wharp> I mostly would like more flexibility. Perhaps what I'm saying is that I'd like some more akin to how....*shudder* Access lets you do reports though I know that's not a great comparison.
12:17:05 <warlord> That means nothing to me, having never seen or used Access.
12:17:14 <warlord> nor knowing anyone first-hand who has.
12:18:35 <wharp> ah
12:18:48 <wharp> Unfortunately I can't say the same
12:19:02 <warlord> well, then, perhaps you could explain Access Reporting?
12:19:03 <wharp> I guess basically having a report designer instead of pre-made reports.
12:19:35 <wharp> You just choose what fields from the tables/queries, their sorting order, whether you want any grouping, etc.
12:20:28 <andrewsw> warlord: sorry, phone call. external because people want to tweak reports, but we don't necessarily want to ship tweaks (though others may want them) and
12:21:33 <andrewsw> crap phone again. biab
12:22:46 <warlord> wharp: having that kind of designer would be kinda neat. do you want to implement one for us? ;)
12:23:02 <wharp> Actually, that's one of my big dreams.
12:23:36 <warlord> andrewsw: like I said, in general I think that if some tweak is wanted by multiple people then it makes sense to extend the report to support said tweak.
12:23:50 <wharp> What would it need to be written in?
12:24:16 <warlord> preferable C/Gtk/Glade
12:24:25 <wharp> warlord, I wonder if there's an open source project that does that sort of thing that could be integrated with gnucash?
12:24:32 <wharp> Glade?
12:24:36 <warlord> I dunno
12:24:45 <warlord> Glade is a Gtk GUI designer app
12:24:48 <wharp> ok
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12:25:43 <warlord> I dont know if GoG has reporting...
12:25:49 <warlord> What's Gnumeric's report system like?
12:26:12 <wharp> Gog? I've never used Gnumeric
12:26:41 <warlord> GoG -- Gnome Office Graphing
12:26:49 <warlord> aka libgoffice
12:28:05 <wharp> ah
12:28:47 <wharp> Not knowing much about the programming of....well anything, it seems like it would be better to find a suitable solution and use it rather than start from the ground up. That is unless all such solutions are incompatible with gnucash.
12:29:30 <warlord> I wouldn't say that "all such solutions are incompatible"
12:30:12 <wharp> Well, I wouldn't think so, but what do I know
12:30:33 <warlord> heh. well, you could go research potential solutions and come up with a list for us.. ;)
12:31:19 <wharp> I can definately do that.
12:31:29 <warlord> :-D
12:31:37 <wharp> I'm really excited about this.
12:37:27 <warlord> Great!
12:37:32 <warlord> Unfortunately I need to take off..
12:39:19 <andrewsw> warlord: I don't disagree. But it might be a good way to filter stuff -- the cream rises to the top.
12:39:19 <wharp> fortunately, I get to leave work in 20 minutes!
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12:44:28 <andrewsw> any reason *not* to take the currency correction in #504257 && should it be marked for BP?
12:44:57 <warlord> andrewsw: well, do we want to keep both currencies or migrate to the new one?
12:45:01 <warlord> But yes, it should be BP
12:45:17 <warlord> anyways, gotta run.
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16:38:39 <Rolf> fell: glad to find you here
16:39:04 <Rolf> What do you mean "bug 504935 would solve the problem"
16:39:23 <fell> Hi Rolf! I fear, you got mail a minute ago.
16:39:40 <Rolf> Another mail?
16:39:48 <Rolf> 433428 is not about one single problem
16:39:54 <fell> yep, the explaination
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16:45:09 <fell> currency XXX (no currency) would allow account classes 91/92 Statistical Data in SKR04
16:45:32 <Rolf> Sorry for German, guys
16:45:37 <Rolf> Wozu braucht es das denn?
16:45:45 <Rolf> Deine Mail ist übrigens noch nicht da
16:47:39 <fell> Die 9xxx-Konten hab ich seinerzeit nicht angelegt, weil ich nicht wußte wie man Arbeitstage, Verkaufsfläche usw. implementieren kann,
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16:48:12 <fell> ohne Konfusion zu stiften.
16:49:27 <warlord> I'll be back...
16:50:01 <Rolf> fell: Ist das nicht ein absoluter Nebenkriegsschauplatz?
16:50:16 <Rolf> Ich kann gnucash immer noch nicht für die einfachsten Dinge nutzen
16:50:29 <Rolf> Was zugegebenermaßen sowohl an mir als auch an gnucash liegt
16:50:55 <fell> Rolf, sicher, aber irgendwo lies mir das auch keine Ruhe.
16:50:58 <Rolf> Zum Beispiel ist mir noch nicht klar, wie man Jahre und die JAhresauswertungen in gnucash klar bekommt
16:52:12 <Rolf> Ich dachte, jedes Jahr eine neue Datei anzulegen, muß aber erkennen, daß doch immer noch zu viel händisch eingegeben werden muß, als daß man sich die Neueingabe von Grunddaten (kleines Beispiel Name und steuerbezogene Daten) jedes Mal von vorne antun will
16:52:54 <warlord> fell, Rolf: maybe when you're done you could translate for the rest of us.. (or at least post an English summary?) :-D
16:53:12 <fell> Der Jahresabschluß ist sicher ein Problem (von Hand Abschluß nach Eröffnung in eine neue Datei übertragen)
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16:54:40 <Rolf> Wenn warlord noch da wäre ginge das
16:55:13 <Rolf> warlord et al.: This is again about the pecularieties of using gnucash in a German context
16:55:34 <Rolf> Talking about that kind of stuff in Englisch is kind of awkward and would bore you to death anyways
16:55:58 <Rolf> To be honest, I still have no clear picture of how to use gnucash successfully in a German business context.
16:56:15 <Rolf> fell: Ich meine nicht nur den Jahresaschluß nach HGB
16:56:21 <Rolf> Den brauche ich nicht machen
16:56:49 <Rolf> Aber eine einfache Analyse "Zeig mir an, was in Konto XY im Jahr Z passiert ist" scheint nicht möglich
16:57:02 <Rolf> Mit Sicherheit kann und will ich aber auch das nicht behaupten
16:57:54 <Rolf> Aber zum Beispiel möchte ich natürlich Umsatzsteuervoranmeldungen oder EÜR für die Einkommenssteuer aus den Daten extrahieren
16:58:12 <Rolf> Die Daten sind da, allein die periodenbezogene Auswertung scheint nicht möglich
16:58:17 <Rolf> So paradox das für mich klingt
16:59:17 <fell> I hope, to have sometime the time to adjust/create reports. in the current I export to OOO
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17:04:31 <Rolf> Benutzt Du gnucash eigentlich schon produktiv?
17:04:51 <Rolf> Ich schleich da immer noch nur katzenartig drum herum
17:06:18 <fell> In between I try to develope some concept, also about local differences, under http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Referenz and hope to "backport" later to english
17:07:28 <Rolf> fell: Ehrlich gesagt, ich verstehe Deinen bug nicht.
17:07:40 <fell> Rolf, ja, ich buche alles manuell und seh mir dann in der Kontehierarchie die Salden an.
17:07:44 <Rolf> Soll aber nichts heißen, ich habe das wohl einfach nur noch nie gebraucht
17:08:11 <Rolf> Also keine Auswertungen über Konten hinweg
17:08:15 <Rolf> Kein Aggregieren
17:08:29 <Rolf> Keine Periodenbetrachtung?
17:08:48 * Rolf kann sich gar nicht vorstellen, wie gnucash da hilfreich sein könnte
17:09:09 <Rolf> Das sind doch die wesentlich Dinge, die man mit den Daten machen will
17:10:07 <fell> Wenn ein Einschreiben ins Ausland verloren geht, oder mit dem Flugzeug abstürzt, wird die Entschädigung in SZR/XDR berechnet.
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17:12:00 <fell> Spätestens am 10. machst du Deinen Monatsabschluß für die USTVA, buchst die Salden um auf laufendes Jahr und füllst das Formular aus...
17:12:37 <fell> Am Jahresende von laufendes Jahr auf Vorjahr...
17:14:27 <Rolf> Welche Konten sind laufendes Jahr und welche sind Vorjahr?
17:14:29 <Rolf> Nummer?
17:14:54 <Rolf> Wie bekommst Du die Zahlen für die UStVa?
17:15:01 <Rolf> Aus allen Konten rauspuhlen?
17:15:21 <Rolf> Die Auswertung ist ja noch recht instabil und verlangt noch viel händische Vorarbeit
17:15:47 <Rolf> A propos Nummer, hast Du einen Trick, wie Du Konten anhand der Nummer aufspürst?
17:16:05 <Rolf> In deutschen Programmen wird ja meist anhand der Nummer und nicht der Bezeichnung gebucht
17:16:17 <Rolf> Nur leider unterstützt gnucash in gar keiner WEise
17:16:58 <fell> Der SKR03 ist nach Nummern sortiert, der 04 nach HGB
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17:21:50 <warlord> back
17:24:04 <Rolf> (22:55:14) Rolf: warlord et al.: This is again about the pecularieties of using gnucash in a German context
17:24:09 <Rolf> (22:55:35) Rolf: Talking about that kind of stuff in Englisch is kind of awkward and would bore you to death anyways
17:24:10 <Rolf> (22:55:58) Rolf: To be honest, I still have no clear picture of how to use gnucash successfully in a German business context.
17:24:56 <warlord> Does the german law actually require you to use that account tree, even when pieces of it really dont apply to your business?
17:24:57 <Rolf> fell: so how do you search for an account number which I think most people would agree is more suitable for small business
17:25:07 <Rolf> no
17:25:19 <Rolf> You can have any tree you like
17:25:25 <Rolf> I think
17:26:09 <Rolf> I am not firm enough with either german or US accounting to pinpoint exactly where the differences are
17:26:09 <warlord> Then I dont see why you cant use GnuCash ;)
17:26:26 <Rolf> Well, it may be my lack of understanding it
17:26:38 <Rolf> Which most certainly is a bit portion of it
17:26:51 <warlord> ah, well i cant help you there ;)
17:27:03 <Rolf> The thing, thoug is that German accounting is complex because the tax authorities are morons
17:27:41 <Rolf> There are well-known software packs out there and one big corporation called DATEV
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17:28:20 <Rolf> Their account trees, procedures, etc. are de facto standard
17:28:28 <Rolf> Everybody uses it
17:28:51 <Rolf> So if you have a question about accounting and use your own stuff, you are basically f*cked
17:29:20 <warlord> :(
17:29:27 <Rolf> As I said, I am in no position to say gnucash has to have this or that or else you absolutely cannot use it Germany
17:29:47 <Rolf> But I observe certain things and gnucash does not support them
17:29:59 <Rolf> to the point where using pen and paper might appear easier ;-)
17:30:16 <Rolf> like looking for an account by number instead of description
17:30:18 <warlord> I still find that very hard to believe.
17:30:23 <Rolf> absolutely essential
17:30:42 <warlord> So you actually think in numbers better than names?
17:30:48 <Rolf> well, I am on and off gnucash which does not help getting me up to speed
17:30:49 <warlord> Most people I know don't
17:30:50 <Rolf> that is for sure
17:31:05 <warlord> Most people I know think in words, not numbers
17:31:06 <Rolf> don't what?
17:31:17 <Rolf> warlord, you are from the US
17:31:44 <fell> I am no learned bookkeeper. I don't know the house numbers. I enter something like 1[regular earnings]<tab>a[dont know in english]<tab>F[ull taxrate]...
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17:32:04 <warlord> True, I am.
17:32:33 <Rolf> Look to an accounting group in german Usenet and you will see them communicating in four-digit account numbers
17:32:37 <warlord> But let me ask you this: when you want to phone your mom, do you think "I need to phone my mom?" or do you think "I need to phone 0122 2345" ?
17:32:48 <Rolf> warlord: That is not the point
17:33:01 <Rolf> I am not arguing the German way is more efficient
17:33:08 <Rolf> I am just describing what I observe
17:33:13 <warlord> It's not a question of efficiency.
17:33:45 <Rolf> Well, then tell me where I should look for sales tax in SKR04
17:33:53 <Rolf> Because that is what I am looking for right now
17:34:03 <Rolf> I could google for the number in about a minute
17:34:12 <warlord> Withheld sales tax or paid sales tax?
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17:34:32 <Rolf> Whichever you prefer
17:34:42 <Rolf> But I think the German VAT works differently
17:34:48 <Rolf> I don't know the US system
17:35:25 <Rolf> If you receive an invoice for 119$ and sales tax is 19%, do you receive 19$ from the government as a business?
17:35:37 <warlord> There is no VAT per in the US.. But I would look in either Liabilities:Taxes:Withheld Sales Tax or Expenses:Taxes:Sales Tax
17:35:48 <fell> I i have under liabilities, the other under assets, very easy
17:35:51 <warlord> no
17:37:05 <Rolf> fell: liabilities = Aufwendungen?
17:37:14 <Rolf> That does not seem the same stuff
17:37:57 <fell> If you pay 119 from cash/bank, 19 go in assets:paid tax and 100 go assets:somegoods or Aufwand
17:38:22 <Rolf> warlord: I am not sure sure I am in the correct place, the keyboard shortcuts don't seem to work here
17:38:23 <fell> liabilities=Verbindlichkeiten
17:38:39 <Rolf> like a:blah<tab>:morebla
17:39:22 <warlord> It's POSSIBLE that the autofill has issues with utf8.
17:40:57 <Rolf> Do you use the "Ctrl - T"-window
17:40:58 <Rolf> ?
17:41:07 <warlord> Rarely.
17:41:15 <Rolf> But would it work there?
17:41:19 <Rolf> It does not here
17:42:32 <Rolf> fell: Deine Umbuchungen zum Monatsende gehen auf 3840 und von dort auf 3841?
17:42:49 <warlord> I dont know. what version of gnc?
17:42:59 <Rolf> fell: Du hast alle Jahre inklusive Vorjahre in einer Datenbank?
17:43:15 <Rolf> warlord: 2.2.1 ubuntu edgy
17:43:34 <Rolf> warlord: Can you tell me where those shortcuts should work?
17:43:49 <Rolf> they won't in initial start window
17:43:53 <Rolf> for me
17:44:52 <warlord> In the register
17:45:18 <warlord> I know there was a bug in the Xfer Window that had issues. I know Andreas fixed it, but I dont remember exactly when.
17:47:25 <fell> Rolf: genau, die Salden von 38xxx in USTVA eintragen und auf 3840, am Jahresende 3840 -> 3841->3845. Analog 14xx, 4xxx und 5xxx
17:49:24 <fell> Rolf: every year a new file because else it is too big.
17:49:48 <Rolf> Hm
17:50:20 <Rolf> but creating a new file every year is cumbersome because there is so many things to set up manually before you can actually use it
17:51:22 <fell> If you like, you could write the Closing_year_procedure ;)
17:52:00 <Rolf> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=478449
17:52:10 <warlord> A simple druid to zero out the Income and Expense accounts would be good :)
17:52:11 <Rolf> That is exactly why I wrote that
17:52:31 <Rolf> well, I need to understand gnucash better first
17:52:46 <Rolf> I am more than willing to make it easier for the next person after me
17:52:53 <Rolf> But one step at a time
17:53:00 <Rolf> "patches welcome" is nice
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17:53:28 <Rolf> But there is a certain level of understanding necessary to supply meaningful patches or even just suggestions to be put into code
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17:55:38 <Rolf> fell: your comment saved to the wiki
17:55:48 <Rolf> mostly for my personal reference ;-)
17:56:39 <fell> Rolf, wich wiki entry?
17:57:36 <warlord> :)
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18:00:17 <Rolf> my EÜR-wiki page
18:00:20 <Rolf> http://linuxwiki.de/GnuCash/EuerGc
18:00:41 <Rolf> fell: What is account 4xxx and 5xxx
18:00:55 <Rolf> it would be really nice to search by account numbers
18:01:03 <Rolf> warlord: See, what is happening here?
18:01:18 <Rolf> Germans referring to account numbers instead of descriptions
18:01:23 <Rolf> because we are used to it
18:01:32 <Rolf> and because it is quicker
18:01:52 <Rolf> usually, it is the Americans who know about "time is money" ;-9
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18:03:11 <fell> but there were also people like Goethe, Heine, usw., wich didn't always think in numbers.
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18:04:02 <Rolf> fell: What is account 4xxx and 5xxx?
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18:05:29 <fell> 52-55: 5.Materialaufwand:Wareneingang
18:07:08 <fell> 4xxx: 1.Betriebliche Erträge:a)Umsatzerlöse: nach Steuerrelevanz und -satz
18:09:12 <Rolf> Warum buchst Du nur den jahresweise um? Was ist mit anderen Aufwendungen?
18:09:55 <fell> BTW (http://linuxwiki.de/GnuCash/EuerGc): I am not shure, if it is wise, to write in the "old" wiki.
18:11:50 <Rolf> well, the text is such a mess that it would not matter much
18:11:51 <fell> da stehen die MWSt/VAT-relevanten Daten drin (UStVA). Der Rest kommt jährlich mit der EÜR dran.
18:12:03 <Rolf> I started it there before the "new" wiki
18:12:11 <Rolf> And since then it has not changed so much
18:12:21 <Rolf> not least because I made almost no progress
18:13:27 <Rolf> fell: Ich habe kaum Wareneingang, da Dienstleistungsbranche
18:13:49 <Rolf> Ich sehe da nicht den Unterschied
18:14:02 <Rolf> Aber das schaue ich mir im neuen Jahr an
18:14:29 <fell> Possible you should contact Helmutundarnold <helmut.arnold@online.de> about some coordinated the transfer.
18:14:33 <Rolf> Ich muß jetzt ins Bett und ab morgen ist Weihnachten angesagt
18:14:47 <Rolf> Hehe
18:15:00 <Rolf> getting that single page over there will not pose too much of a problem
18:17:37 <fell> 45xx Provisionserlöse ...
18:17:58 <fell> Na dann: Frohes Fest (merry Xmas)
18:18:16 <Rolf> Wir sprachen doch von Aufwand
18:18:30 <Rolf> Und warum Du da nur den Materialwand jährlich umbuchst
18:18:46 <Rolf> Vor allem, wenn Du sowieso jedes Jahr eine neue Datei anlegst
18:18:56 <fell> 59xx: Fremdleistungen
18:19:08 <Rolf> Du mußt doch da jedes Mal einen Haufen Zeug neu eintragen
18:20:24 <fell> Wer statistiken liebt, überträgt sie, wer nicht fängt einfach mit den Salden eine neue Datei an
18:21:36 <Rolf> Mit Daten übertragen meine ich zum Beispiel die Verknüpfungen der UStVa-Daten
18:21:52 <Rolf> Bearbeiten - Steuerrelevante Optionen
18:22:00 <Rolf> Nur ein Beispiel
18:22:15 <Rolf> Oder alles unter Geschäft
18:22:25 <fell> yep, I think about putting then in the template SKR04
18:22:39 <Rolf> Yes, I am also working on that
18:23:07 <Rolf> But right now the amount of work to be redone when starting with a new file is enormous
18:23:21 <Rolf> And not everything can be put into a template
18:23:46 <fell> Or copy the file and remove transfers ?
18:23:56 <Rolf> just think about stuff that is individual to your business, starts with your name and tax number and does not end with your customers
18:24:06 <Rolf> I thought that was a bitch to do???
18:24:36 <Rolf> If you could cleanly transfer all data *except* transaction data, it would not be aproblem
18:24:44 <Rolf> From what I know, it is a problem
18:25:05 <Rolf> Anyways, I really have to sleep now
18:25:09 <Rolf> Nice talking to you
18:25:16 <Rolf> ping me when you are around
18:25:33 <warlord> Have a good evening.
18:25:40 <Rolf> good night
18:25:43 <fell> There are different Rolfs here
18:25:53 <Rolf> No, I think it is just me
18:26:09 <Rolf> Either Rolf, Rol1 or R0lf
18:26:15 <Rolf> That is usually me
18:26:23 <fell> You are at ish and the other is at arcor
18:26:30 <Rolf> Or "/whois $nick" and look at my IP
18:26:43 <Rolf> Well, I am hardly ever at arcor
18:26:49 <Rolf> I am sometimes at .jp
18:27:09 <Rolf> But of course, I travel, so I could at times have all kinds of IP addresses
18:27:32 <fell> WHats about a unique name?
18:29:17 <Rolf> impossible with this sucky IRC server
18:29:27 <Rolf> If you are not around I could just pick fell
18:29:27 <warlord> yeah, well.. irc sucks, right?
18:29:32 <Rolf> no
18:29:38 <Rolf> chat is nice
18:29:50 <Rolf> But not being able to password protect your nick sucks
18:43:05 <warlord> Yeah, lack of a chanserv and nickserv is annoying.
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22:06:36 <fell> Good night together and, if we do not see us before, merry christmas.
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22:39:32 <dbreiser> is there a simple svn command to take my local tree back to a specific revision?
22:39:44 <dbreiser> and can I make my own tarball from my local tree?
22:48:26 <chris> dbreiser: svn checkout
22:48:47 <chris> dbreiser: and make dist
22:50:09 <dbreiser> chris: thanks.
22:50:35 <dbreiser> I obviously don't understand some pieces of "checkout" :)
22:51:35 <dbreiser> trying to pin down the mac intel crash in 2.2.2 (doesn't happen with current trunk).
23:02:46 <andrewsw> advise me guys on being a little draconian and shutting down bugs where the discussion has drifted from the specific issues initially reported.
23:03:37 <andrewsw> I've got one that's got good discussion and a nice patch adding features to a report but its an expansion well beyond the actual, fixed issue originally reported.
23:04:10 <andrewsw> I don't want to piss people off, but it's also a discussion that belongs elsewhere.
23:04:39 <warlord> dbreiser: "svn update -r <rev>"
23:05:23 <warlord> If there's a patch and it really is an issue, then we should consider applying the patch unless the patch is just wrong or will cause more issues than it solves.
23:05:26 <dbreiser> warlord: thanks, that sounds closer to what I think I want to do
23:06:50 <andrewsw> oh the patch is good and I'm going to apply it, it's just OT to the original bug report which I believe is resolved -- awaiting response from the OP.
23:07:19 <andrewsw> So I've said I consider the bug closed unless I get a response otherwise. (and I was nice).
23:07:44 <andrewsw> and thanked for the patch and said I will likely apply it as an enhancement.
23:11:14 <warlord> Okay
23:18:56 <andrewsw> I guess I'm looking for someone to say it's okay to keep things focused a bit...
23:24:47 <warlord> It's okay to keep things focus and suggest opening a new bug.
23:27:37 <andrewsw> oh great! thanks! ;)
23:28:08 <warlord> :-D
23:53:34 <andrewsw> dang. more swigification bugs...
23:54:01 <warlord> I'm sure there are plenty of those, mostly because there's no automated tests of the scheme code, and it's all runtime errors.
23:54:54 <andrewsw> yeah. Testing this report keeps turning them up. In the long run its good... just frustrating to keep running into them while fixing other stuff
23:55:16 <warlord> I'm sure.
23:55:30 <warlord> It would be really nice to have a test suite for reports.
23:55:54 <andrewsw> yes. maybe if I can ever get out of adv portfolio hell...
23:59:52 <warlord> hehehe