2007-12-17 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:22:54 <cstim> andi5: good morning Bayern
05:23:55 <andi5> moin moin
05:23:55 <gncbot> andi5: Sent 12 hours and 13 minutes ago: <cstim> just in case you want to finish an easier cmake project first, I'd warmly welcome a CMake'ized ktoblzcheck :-)))
05:24:05 <andi5> ack
05:24:56 <cstim> re cmake: gnucash is using some very weird makefile rules, which will be difficult to re-model in cmake. e.g. the translations for the schemas files :-)
05:25:13 <cstim> and all the gettext rules
05:26:19 <andi5> does gnucash use customized rules?
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05:27:09 <cstim> gnucash-own customized rules? Some header generation (%.h.in -> %.h), the svn version number.
05:27:34 <cstim> apart from that: SWIG bindings, gettext, schemas
05:27:50 <cstim> oh, swig is already in cmake
05:28:08 <andi5> yep, swig and those .h.in -> .h are already done
05:28:18 <andi5> i think i used CONFIGURE_FILE
05:29:01 <cstim> yes, that's fine for %.h.in -> %.h
05:29:13 <cstim> as for gettext, http://www.cmake.org/pipermail/cmake/2007-July/015297.html
05:29:17 <cstim> i.e. that seems not-so-ready
05:29:35 <andi5> that is july! :-)
05:30:00 <cstim> oh, http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/cmake/2007-November/017638.html
05:30:12 <cstim> i.e. in cmake-2.5 CVS
05:30:22 <cstim> but July *this* year :-)
05:31:10 <andi5> i suppose we can ship whatever is needed additionally to the then stock packages
05:31:35 <cstim> you mean, whatever cmake modules are necessary, like FindGettext.cmake ?
05:31:36 <cstim> yes
05:31:39 <cstim> we can
05:31:55 <cstim> that's what kde does as well
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05:33:21 <andi5|away> gotta do something
05:33:54 <cstim> have fun
05:34:19 <cstim> andi5|away: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdesdk/cmake/ might be helpful
05:34:57 <andi5|away> thanks
05:36:00 <cstim> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/cmake/modules/ , to be more precise
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08:59:45 <IanL> How feasable is it for sub-accounts to have different currencies than the parent account?
08:59:52 * IanL waves to elb!
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08:59:59 <warlord> IanL: perfectly feasible
09:00:04 <IanL> I thought so,
09:00:06 <warlord> (how do you think stock accounts work)
09:00:16 <warlord> However the QIF Importer might not really like it; I dont recall.
09:00:24 <IanL> I don't do it myself
09:00:26 <IanL> right.
09:00:54 <IanL> I'm having a conversation with someone on the mailing list about the QIF importer doing weird stuff when the parent has a different currency.
09:01:14 <warlord> The qif importer is just.. old and unloved.
09:01:19 <warlord> It surely does many things wrong.
09:01:23 <IanL> is there an existing bug report?
09:01:49 <IanL> I'll see if I can find one.
09:02:29 <IanL> doesn't look like there is an open one at least
09:02:29 <warlord> Maybe? There are tons of QIF bug reports. The importer just needs to be rewritten.
09:02:53 <IanL> ok,
09:03:06 <IanL> I'll make a new one to point people to.
09:03:30 <IanL> Should just make an all encompassing one called "QIF importer needs to be rewritten"
09:03:36 <IanL> ;P
09:04:35 <warlord> heh. no, that's not a bug report, that's a to-do item, which doesn't belong in bugzilla.
09:08:35 <IanL> Yah, Would be nice to have something to point users to, to say "It's a known issue, it'll be fixed sometime".
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09:28:27 <warlord> IanL: it wouldn't surprise me that the importer is stupid and expects the whole tree to be of one currency.
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09:39:36 <IanL> warlord: I think it's exactly that.
09:40:11 <IanL> It doesn't care about some accounts but others it does.
09:40:37 <IanL> Maybe just Asset accounts it cares when the currencies mismatch.
09:40:50 <IanL> In any case it's like you said. It should be rewritten.
09:41:11 <warlord> yeah. A few years ago I started to rewrite it, but gave up afetr a while.
09:41:36 <IanL> Is there a reason it's written in scheme?
09:43:10 <warlord> Because the former set of devs (back around 2000/2001) loved scheme
09:43:28 <jsled> Interesting. http://paste.lisp.org/display/52627 Just showed up on my google alert for "gnucas".
09:44:43 <jsled> Which isn't as crazy as I thought. I thought it was the post from in here, but instead it's from #macports, presumably on freenode.
09:47:20 <jsled> More interesting... the sequence of edits starting <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:GnuCash&diff=178446521&oldid=prev>.
09:49:16 <IanL> warlord: are the reports written the way they are for the same reason?
09:49:52 <warlord> Probably, but honestly I dont know.
09:51:00 <warlord> jsled: interesting.
09:51:04 <jsled> I think so. The reports infrastructure has the same names... Bill Gribble, primarily.
09:51:23 <IanL> I presume that of course you would want a kind of plugin architecture for reports so you could add/customize them without recompiling gnucash but using scheme seems like a strange choice.
09:51:33 <jsled> I think the Gnumatic guys decided as a group to try to move more of gnucas into scheme... then did so for a while, then it all came crashing down.
09:52:03 <jsled> I think scheme being the FSF/GNU-preferred "extension" langauge might have something to do with it.
09:55:06 <IanL> hmm, I suppose at the time using something like python or another free language was less plausable than it is today.
09:55:13 <jsled> very true.
09:56:02 <IanL> Anyway, if the QIF importer was rewritten, I guess you guys would want it to be part of the generic importer.
09:56:30 <jsled> That'd probably be best, yes.
09:56:47 <jsled> I'd be nice to have all the importers be consistent, and be able to leverage common code.
09:58:59 <warlord> IanL: yeah. I was trying to create a 'generic druid creator' in order to allow different importers to have different work flows but re-use "importer pieces" like the transaction matcher etc.
10:03:21 <IanL> I imagine it would be kinda cool for importers to be plugins and work through a plugin interface. Some programs have importers this way.
10:03:34 <IanL> I suppose that's where the create importers in scheme idea came from,
10:03:47 <IanL> but I'm not sure whether that would really be necessary.
10:06:12 <IanL> Would having importers being part of the gnucash core, like written in C but reusing code, be a bad idea?
10:06:19 <jsled> nope.
10:06:28 <jsled> working code is better than abstracted/plugin shit.
10:07:55 <jsled> s/shit/code that does't work very well/ :)
10:08:42 <IanL> nods,
10:09:26 <IanL> Is there a branch for the generic importer? Any design documents? wiki pages?
10:11:01 <jsled> src/import-export/geenric-import-design.txt
10:11:44 <IanL> ok, lemme fire up the text editor
10:12:25 <jsled> http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/druidframework.html
10:15:15 <IanL> is that file still being maintained in cvs?
10:16:11 <IanL> ah, cvs.gnucash.org and svn.gnucash.org are the same
10:16:49 <jsled> (how'd that extra 'e' creep in?)
10:17:03 <jsled> Well, the last update to that .txt file was 5 years ago.
10:17:11 <jsled> says <http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/import-export>
10:20:51 <IanL> hmm. the file itself says 2004-01-12
10:20:57 <IanL> about 4 years ago ;9
10:20:58 <IanL> ;)
10:25:41 <cstim_afk> jsled: interesting link
10:28:08 <cstim_afk> also it seems to me not so much wikipedia-like to give all this sort of information on the Talk-Page. What would the contributor expect of this? Whatever. I don't care anyway.
10:28:46 <jsled> cstim_afk: Well, the "is it GNU" discussion was on the Talk page in the first place, so he's just responding in-kind.
10:29:02 <IanL> jsled: oh the text file. not the html file. my bad.
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12:01:24 <warlord> Now if only we could get someone to do the qif re-write ;)
12:01:36 <warlord> (too bad the GSoC project failed)
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13:03:55 <andrewsw> hiya folks.
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13:05:12 <warlord2> andrewsw, chris, jsled: could one of you op gncbot?
13:05:29 <andrewsw> @op gncbot
13:05:29 <gncbot> andrewsw: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
13:05:40 *** andrewsw sets mode: +o gncbot
13:05:53 <andrewsw> you too?
13:06:04 *** andrewsw sets mode: +o warlord2
13:06:57 <andrewsw> hey you're already here.
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13:13:58 <warlord> I could've done it for myself, but thank you.
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13:18:29 <andrewsw> guess it would have sucked if'd op'd someone else.
13:18:43 * warlord needs to think about how he'd feel about reports in Python..
13:19:00 <jsled> feel good about it. :)
13:19:15 <jsled> (is that apropos of something?)
13:19:46 <jsled> like, did it come up in email?
13:19:50 <andrewsw> hmm... I didn't mean to imply they should be in python
13:19:50 <warlord> Yeah
13:20:14 <warlord> No, andrewsw, you did not.
13:20:31 <warlord> jsled: I honestly dont feel good about it; I dont like python
13:20:52 <jsled> Python's great.
13:21:19 <warlord> You've drunk the cool aid
13:21:20 * jsled appeals to geek-authority: http://xkcd.com/353/ :)
13:21:28 <andrewsw> haskell?
13:21:30 * andrewsw ducks
13:22:11 <jsled> If by that you mean I've written a lot of python code, and find it far better to work in than java, C or perl … then yes.
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13:23:03 <warlord> hahaha
13:25:20 <warlord> Note that I wont try to stop python as the new report language, but we'll need someone else to be the primary report maintainer.
13:26:23 <chris> oh, python reports would be awesome. ruby would be nice, too.
13:27:00 <warlord> either way it's another language (for me) to learn. :(
13:27:25 <jsled> you can learn python syntax in an hour; that's better than the day for scheme's. ;)
13:27:43 <warlord> Oh, I've learned python syntax. I just can't stand looking at it.
13:27:57 <jsled> ah
13:28:02 <chris> ruby is more similar to scheme than python.
13:28:11 <chris> more functional.
13:28:28 <chris> just as easy to learn.
13:28:28 <warlord> I'm not sure which is more appropriate for reports..
13:28:29 <jsled> Yeah, I really should give ruby a try.
13:28:53 <chris> either one is so much better than guile it's not even funny.
13:30:03 <warlord> oh, i'm sure it is.
13:30:33 <warlord> And GtkMozEmbed is better than GtkHTML.
13:33:40 <jsled> Though on that front, WebKit has become a very real option, too.
13:34:05 <jsled> And might be a less onerous dep than firefox/moz...
13:34:15 <andrewsw> doesn't that sort of force the Knucash name change I proposed?
13:34:22 <jsled> Well, once it's actually available, that is.
13:35:04 <jsled> andrewsw: in terms of KDE-ism, or license, or...?
13:35:19 <warlord> WebKit-gtk is available on FC7
13:35:30 <jsled> I know there's a epiphany-using-webkit effort, so I don't think it's either, anymore.
13:35:39 <andrewsw> jsled: just humour.
13:35:44 <jsled> ah.
13:36:15 <jsled> Anyways. miles to go from here to there.
13:37:44 <warlord> I dont have a strong opinion on GtkMozEmbed v. WebKit-gtk
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13:38:40 <warlord> Except WebKit doesn't support CSS, yet.
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13:40:37 <jsled> It seems like it does, very well: http://webkit.org/projects/css/index.html
13:40:44 <jsled> I thought they were the first to pass ACID2, in fact.
13:43:20 <warlord> Ahh, I guess I got confused with it being in the ToDo list on the maiin page.
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14:42:53 <andrewsw> andi5: ping
14:42:59 <andi5> pong
14:43:20 <andrewsw> hi! as my svk mirror won't sync, care to walk me through git-svn real quick?
14:43:29 <andi5> of course :-)
14:43:37 <andi5> one sec
14:43:46 <andrewsw> at your leisure...
14:44:30 <andi5> ok... i assume you have git and git-svn installed, right? is that version >= 1.5?
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14:45:04 <andrewsw> yep
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14:46:10 <andi5> ok... let us start with git-init $dir , where $dir is your main local directory
14:46:29 <andi5> i used to create local clones, but you need not
14:46:52 <andi5> oh... git-svn init does that as well now
14:47:43 <andi5> andrewsw: have you seen http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git ?
14:48:03 <andi5> seems like things have changed... argh :)
14:48:16 <andrewsw> why, no I haven't look at that.
14:48:22 <andi5> it gets easier and easier
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14:49:44 <andrewsw> let me do that clone and get back to you. my trouble was in getting local branching working...
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14:50:46 <andi5> andrewsw: does that help or do you have a specific problem/question?
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14:51:15 <andi5> inside one repository?
14:51:40 <andrewsw> let me go away and come back with specific questions.
14:51:45 <andi5> hehe, ok :)
14:51:59 <andi5> @op cstim_afk
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14:52:57 <andi5> warlord: ping
14:53:40 <warlord> andi5: pong?
14:53:52 <andi5> nope, pang ;-)
14:53:58 <andi5> you control the wiki, right?
14:54:12 <andi5> could you change page titles read "GnuCash" instead of Gnucash?
14:54:36 <andi5> the same holds for the portal link
14:56:51 <warlord> Ummm...... I dont know if I can, honestly.
14:57:16 <andi5> oh?
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14:58:56 <andrewsw> andi5: no way to have seen http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git as nothing links to it...
14:58:56 <jsled> warlord: I'm at /var/www/mediawiki/LocalSettings.php, if you want me to edit it...?
14:59:10 <andi5> hehe
14:59:30 <jsled> nevermind ... I see some editage.
15:00:31 <warlord> Already edited.
15:00:41 <andi5> nice, thanks! :)
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15:00:57 <warlord> But.. I think I need to restart httpd?
15:01:03 <andi5> worked for me
15:01:37 <warlord> Ahh, needed to force-reload.
15:01:43 <warlord> There ya go.
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15:08:37 <andi5> jsled: http://xkcd.com/356/ ... damn, why did you link to it? :-D
15:09:09 <andrewsw> oh crap
15:09:45 <andi5> andrewsw: what is up?
15:10:03 <jsled> andi5: What, xkcd? /me ♥ xkcd, as should you.
15:10:44 <andrewsw> andi5: hold on... 1 ohm + 1/2 ohm +...
15:10:52 <andi5> lol
15:11:59 <warlord> hahaha
15:12:58 <jsled> (Also, if you don't know, be sure to check the alternate text for the comic image on each strip.)
15:13:11 <jsled> Er... the title.
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15:13:21 <andi5> oh... they differ from the pictures :)
15:13:29 <jsled> Which should be the tooltip when you mouse-hover, but that doesn't work for me, sometimes.
15:13:34 <andrewsw> ff requires you resize the stupid properites window to see it all
15:13:42 <jsled> yeah. FF is dumb.
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15:24:38 <andrewsw> andi5: I"ve got it cloned from a reasonably recent rev. So here's where I get confused. I want a clean branch for building HEAD and a working branch for my stuff.
15:24:56 <andrewsw> do I clone my local repo now or do I checkout my local repo
15:25:11 <andi5> well, i tend to clone it twice
15:25:35 <andi5> like git-clone -l -n -s repo trunk && git clone -l -n -s repo branch
15:25:50 <andi5> but that is just a matter of taste
15:26:13 <andrewsw> git-svn clone -r16600:HEAD svn+ssh://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk
15:26:28 <andrewsw> is what I initially did. and I have a nice src/gnucash/trunk directory here.
15:26:34 <andi5> yeap
15:26:47 <andi5> you clone your local copy
15:26:52 <andrewsw> so now I git-clone -l -n -s src/gnucash/trunk clean-branch?
15:27:02 <andi5> (once again: that is what _i_ do)
15:27:19 <andi5> yes, if that is the directory containing .git
15:28:29 <andi5> of course you can also branch in one directory, but then you will need to rebuild when you checkout (i.e. switch branches)
15:28:47 <andrewsw> then I can build in that clone, or do I need to also check out that clone (clean-branch) for building...
15:29:16 <andi5> when you have a git repo (clone or not), checking out is a very fast operation, no network involved
15:29:28 <andi5> i mean, local clone or git-svn clone
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15:30:12 <andi5> you might want to run "git branch -v" and "git branch -r -v" after git clone -l -n -s... that might help you
15:30:30 <andrewsw> alright let me fiddle abit more.
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15:45:55 <andi5> http://xkcd.com/107/ .. o man... must .. stop...
15:47:00 <andrewsw> hehehe
15:47:13 <jsled> Oh, you're almost a 3rd of the way through! :)
15:47:25 <andi5> no, i began clicking "random" :)
15:47:26 <jsled> They'll still be there tomorrow.
15:47:29 <jsled> Oh.
16:21:03 <andrewsw> hoo... that's some ugly svn number in the splash...
16:21:27 <andi5> hehe :)
16:21:37 <andi5> that is true
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17:15:29 <andi5> @tell nbinont i will be up tomorrow morning at 5 am utc, maybe we will even meet :-)
17:15:29 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
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19:48:56 <dave> Hey, how do you produce a purchase order (as a report) ?
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19:57:22 <warlord> dave: there really isn't support for a Purchase Order, per se.
19:57:24 <warlord> Sorry.
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20:15:12 <dave> warlord: I can make one, but it's marked as an "Invoice" - looks perfect... How can i make a new template type?
20:15:31 <warlord> you cant
20:15:40 <warlord> well, you could re-write some scheme, but...
20:16:01 <dave> the actual accounting side of things is all there as far as i can see
20:16:23 <dave> vendor, job, bill etc
20:19:32 <warlord> There are "Order"s half-implemented.
20:19:43 <warlord> BUt removed from the UI because they're only half-implemented.
20:21:21 <dave> shame
20:22:53 <warlord> Well, you're welcome to finish the implementation.
20:23:04 <dave> :)
20:23:15 <warlord> trust me, it's better to have been disabled.
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23:28:39 <nbinont> @tell andi5 windows binaries are up
23:28:39 <gncbot> nbinont: The operation succeeded.
23:28:40 <gncbot> nbinont: Sent 6 hours and 13 minutes ago: <andi5> i will be up tomorrow morning at 5 am utc, maybe we will even meet :-)
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