2007-12-14 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:47:57 <jcreigh> okay, so I'm still stuggling a little to understand what "debit" and "credit" means, specifically how *increasing* the amount of an account is called a "debit". The only way it makes sense to me is if I think of, eg, my bank account, as not money that I have, but rather money that the bank owes me. So when I depositing money, that's a debit, because I'm increasing the amount of money they owe me, and just the opposite when I make a ...
00:48:03 <jcreigh> ... withdrawal. Is that the right way to think about it?
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06:27:56 <pac1> jcreigh, you might try wikipedia for a good explanation of the terms.
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09:16:31 <Diego> I?m wondering if anyone knows how to create an inventory journal on GnuCASH.
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09:44:07 <warlord> Diego: gnucash really doesn't support inventory.
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10:48:57 <J4CK50N> Hello everyone.
10:55:25 <jsled> hello
10:55:46 <jsled> jcreigh: yeah, "debit" and "credit" have non-obvious meanings in double-entry accounting.
10:56:16 <jsled> jcreigh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping_system#Debits_and_credits isn't a bad overview.
10:59:46 <Diego> I know that it does not have an inventory module.
11:00:19 <Diego> However, INVENTORY is an accounting practice; hence, it should be a process for doing so.
11:00:45 <Diego> I've been looking and I found something PROCEDURAL, not modular.
11:02:35 <Diego> It's just about having the right Accounts set up. My accountant is an A$$ and does things backwards so I searched for the right way to account inventory and inventory costs
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11:08:19 <warlord> Diego: well, based on that, just create an Asset called "Inventory" and you can keep track of the value of your inventory.
11:09:26 <Diego> Right, I was just having an awefull time trying to determine the Costs of Goods Sold.
11:09:51 <Diego> The way I've found is:
11:12:04 <Diego> Sales of the month - Inventory purchase - Costs related to purchase = Inventory available for sales
11:12:32 <Diego> Inventory available for sales - Inventory at the end of the month = Costs of Goods Sold
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11:14:19 <Diego> On the other hand, I might just get a software that deals with Point of Sale and manages inventory (not accounting) and get the Cost of Goods Sold from it... then insert it into GnuCash.
11:14:41 <Diego> Thank you.
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12:14:51 <dsa> I am getting ready to add two features to the wish list, but I want to make sure that they don't already exist. Is there a simple way to email invoices (i.e. click a button which opens a populated email client?) Also, is there any way to schedule invoices?
12:15:09 <jsled> no. no.
12:15:14 <dsa> Thank you.
12:15:22 <jsled> The latter is a FAQ.
12:15:52 <jsled> There are, I think, RFEs for both, as well.
12:16:09 <dsa> RFE?
12:16:22 <jsled> Request for Enhancement; in buzilla.
12:16:25 <jsled> bugzilla, even.
12:16:56 <dsa> Got it. Thanks again. Are RFEs in Bugzilla preferred over the wish list on the wiki?
12:17:18 <jsled> Well, patches are preferred over both. :)
12:17:46 <jsled> It's clear both things would be useful; RFEs and WishList items both have little effect on what gets done.
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12:20:08 <dsa> Understood. I am new to GnuCash, so I am ashamed to admit that I don't yet even know in what language it is written. I need to go read the section on development.
12:20:24 <donfede> dsa: C and scheme(lisp)
12:20:36 <jsled> Mostly C; a couple of bits are in scheme (QIF importer, reports, some misc stuff)
12:21:09 <dsa> Been a long time since I did anything in C, and I don't think I've ever used scheme.
12:21:29 <donfede> jsled: how heinous is the scheme to grok?
12:21:49 <jsled> It's not, really.
12:21:56 <jsled> It's just a bit different.
12:21:58 <warlord> scheme syntax can be learned in one day.
12:22:10 <warlord> groking the full extent of the language can take a week (or more)
12:22:19 <donfede> any lisp/scheme 101 pages you recommend (for a programmer comfortable in several other languages, C, C++, python, java)
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12:22:59 <dsa> I take it that scheme is now preferred over C for GnuCash?
12:23:23 <jsled> dsa: no. why would you think that?
12:24:11 <dsa> I assumed that since GnuCash was originally written in C that the Scheme components much have been a more recent development.
12:24:20 <dsa> *must
12:24:37 <jsled> It's not quite like that.
12:25:13 <jsled> Most development occurs in C.
12:25:29 <jsled> In fact, the reports are pretty bitroted, in part because they're in scheme.
12:27:12 <dsa> bitroted? sorry, not familiar with that term. is that something like "disliked?"
12:27:15 <jsled> donfede: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-1.html is one.
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12:27:45 <donfede> jsled: thanks kindly, i'll see about taking a byte out of that this weekend :)
12:27:47 <warlord> dsa: Break the word apart: bitrot -- bit rot. The rotting of bits.
12:27:49 <jsled> donfede: The canonical others are Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (SICP) and The Little Lisper.
12:28:00 <andrewsw> mornin'
12:28:03 <dsa> Understood. Thanks for the clarification.
12:28:03 <jsled> I think SICP is freely available online, these days.
12:30:57 <warlord> There's also the MIT Scheme Reference, but it's more of a language reference than an actual instruction book.
12:32:51 <jsled> (i'm afk...)
12:33:16 <donfede> looks like a complete scheme book ... http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ ... but other than a wget --mirror , I don't see an option to download it locally as a tarball..
12:35:51 <warlord> why not just read it online?
12:36:42 <dsa> Wow. My connection to svn.gnucash.org is really slow.
12:37:20 <warlord> define "slow"
12:37:42 <dsa> I'm assuming that the brower is going to timeout. I'll let you know.
12:38:10 <dsa> Nope, but it took about 40 seconds to come up.
12:38:19 <dsa> Oh, and still loading.
12:38:36 <andrewsw> similar here.
12:39:09 <dsa> I'm not seeing anything similar with other sites/servers/connections.
12:39:45 <warlord> Give me a URL you're trying to browse?
12:39:57 <dsa> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/
12:40:00 <andrewsw> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/ is slow, hangs on the trac logo
12:40:21 <warlord> It looks like someone from 148.64.167.122 is mirroring /docs/guide
12:40:30 <dsa> It actually did just timeout on me when I clicked on the gnucash link.
12:40:38 <dsa> Ah.
12:40:50 <warlord> starting at 10:42:53 and still going.
12:41:40 <dsa> I guess I'll just come back later then.
12:46:00 <warlord> Okay, try now. I just blocked 148.64.167.122
12:46:09 <warlord> (and it took a while for his existing connection to timeout)
12:46:31 * andrewsw awaits appearance of 148.64.167.122 in irc
12:46:31 <warlord> http is being much.. faster.. now.
12:46:33 <dsa> much faster
12:47:00 <warlord> Hey, let him come and explain why he was mirroring instead of just pulling the docs from SVN
12:47:52 <andrewsw> indeed
12:49:07 <andrewsw> It's obvious.... Spacenet, Inc., he's gonna be out of range soon and wants it all to read on that long voyage to Jupiter.
12:49:08 <warlord> Granted, I'd have to unblock him to enable that first.. ;)
12:49:16 <warlord> hahaha
12:49:19 <andrewsw> heh heh
12:49:45 <dsa> so he's competing for the x prize then?
12:49:50 <dsa> :)
12:49:58 <andrewsw> needs gnucash to figure out how to spend his money
12:50:18 <warlord> hehe
12:50:30 <warlord> anyways, thanks for reporting the issue.
12:50:51 <andrewsw> warlord: you mentioned lots being broken the other day. DO you know the extent of that?
12:51:03 <warlord> not offhand.
12:51:18 <warlord> Actually, he wont be able to email any gnucash.org lists either.. Hmm.
12:51:23 <andrewsw> fair enough. as soon as I get done mirror all of svn.g.o, I'll dive into it.
12:51:38 <warlord> :-(
12:51:42 <warlord> er.. :-P
12:53:30 <chris> ha.
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12:59:13 <yar> anybody has any idea about what accounting software to choose if we have to remote offices and we need the same database?I'm looking for a server-client software and I would prefer that the server could be run on a linux box and windows clients can acces it , something with a mysql backend , can gnucash do that or is it a standalone software?anybody any ideas?
12:59:58 <andrewsw> gnucash is standalone at this time. you might look into sql-ledger, but I don't know it at all
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13:00:32 <yar> oh , and also to be open source :)
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13:04:53 <yar> yeah , it looks nice , it also has foreign currency what we were looking for , I'm gonna show it to my boss and we'll see from there , thank you andrewsw
13:05:10 <andrewsw> your welcome. sorry gnucash can't help in this case.
13:07:23 <dsa> i really have a long way to go. looks like i am going to need to learn subversion before even considering contributing any patches.
13:07:41 <andrewsw> what problem are you having?
13:08:31 <dsa> lol. i'm clueless. for example, i assume that "trunk" is the current main branch; but i also see a "2.2" under branches.
13:08:56 <andrewsw> trunk is where development happens for the next release. 2.2 is the current stable release.
13:09:29 <andrewsw> you should probably work in trunk. bug fixes get backported to 2.2 as needed.
13:09:41 <dsa> what's with all the other branches?
13:10:18 <andrewsw> different people working on different stuff external to the main development. in theory these get merged back into trunk if they work out.
13:10:29 * andrewsw is making all this up as I'm new around here
13:11:06 <dsa> lol. you really get to see that there's a lot more going on than meets the eye when you actually start delving into the source code.
13:11:27 <warlord> andrewsw: you are correct.
13:11:36 <andrewsw> *g*
13:11:41 <dsa> tag?
13:12:25 <andrewsw> I'm not sure what tags are.
13:12:29 <warlord> a tag is, well, a tag.. a reminder. e.g. a point-release.
13:12:42 <warlord> This way you always know what code was used for, e.g. the 2.2.1 release.
13:12:43 <dsa> got it.
13:12:50 <andrewsw> ah cool
13:14:50 <dsa> i'm noticing that some of the files in trunk have a disclaimer at the top, like README.patches, which refer to 1.9.x and indicate that this is a development version. i assume that these are just holdovers from earlier versions which have not yet been updated?
13:16:44 <andrewsw> probably. gnucash was in 1.9 for a long time.
13:19:21 <warlord> Yeah, they just never got updated properly.
13:20:55 <warlord> feel free to correct them
13:25:11 <andrewsw> dang, bugzilla's dying again.
13:25:18 <andrewsw> everytime I try to get something done...
13:26:41 <warlord> heheh
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13:59:53 <andrewsw> am thrashing the hell out of bugzilla adv-port bugs right now. If I scre it up, please, someone, tell me.
14:00:02 <andrewsw> s/scre/screw
14:00:32 <warlord> Well, are you modifying stuff? Or just running reports?
14:00:48 <dsa> anyone know where the "add report" "export" "options" and "print" buttons are defined in the easy invoice window?
14:00:56 <andrewsw> modifying stuff. tagging some old bugs, putting in some blockers etc
14:01:08 <dsa> i've been looking though /report
14:01:29 <warlord> dsa: probably in the report-gnome ui actions
14:01:40 <warlord> andrewsw: okay..
14:02:57 <dsa> hmmm... looks like glade is being used.
14:05:36 <andrewsw> warlord: for example #115267 and #358236 obsoleted with comments
14:07:29 <warlord> ah
14:08:10 <andrewsw> Am I out of line there?
14:09:47 <dsa> wow. so the ui is built on the fly, at runtine, from an xml file, using glade.
14:11:01 <warlord> andrewsw: I dont think so
14:11:34 <andrewsw> okay. thanks.
14:11:59 <andrewsw> and dang, I just replied to gnucash-changes... will that bounce or go to moderation?
14:19:00 <dsa> i just tried doing a search on "ReportExportAction" in the trac browser, in order to find out where this is defined, but it just takes me to the main wiki page.
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14:25:16 <andrewsw> later taters
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14:36:43 <dsa> ah, it seems that the .i files are NOT C preprocessor files--they're SWIG interface files.
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14:40:50 <chris> dsa: correct
14:41:47 <chris> dsa: but SWIG generates C, so it's not unrelated.
14:42:36 <dsa> understood--this is the "glue" between C and Scheme
14:42:38 <andi5> chris: hiho :-) .... you do not have an irc client alarming you when someone types SWIG, right? ;-)
14:44:02 <warlord> heh
14:56:07 <chris> my irc client doesn't eve alarm when someone pings me.
14:56:50 <andi5> does it die then?
14:57:21 <chris> well, I guess it kind of does alarm, but since it's running on a remote server in a dtach session, the alarm doesn't really alert me.
14:58:26 <andi5> hey, thanks for the tip (dtach vs. screen)
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14:58:44 <andi5> hiho cstim :-D
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15:00:26 <andi5> cstim: is http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16638 ok for you?
15:04:41 <cstim> hi andi5
15:05:04 <cstim> andi5: yes. consider it audited.
15:05:10 <andi5> thanks
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15:17:38 <andi5> cstim: any objection to apply leonardos pt_BR glossary to 2.2 and trunk?
15:19:17 <cstim> no objection.
15:19:24 <andi5> thanks
15:19:42 <cstim> it should go into 2.2 for sure, but I'm unsure about trunk
15:20:00 <andi5> so am i
15:20:08 <cstim> because the rule should be all translation work happens on the stable branch
15:20:09 <andi5> but is there anything against it?
15:20:46 <andi5> well.. is that a hard rule?
15:20:59 <cstim> no
15:34:47 <cstim> heh
15:35:04 <cstim> andi5: did r16640 merge cleanly?
15:35:18 <cstim> I was afraid of the translation hunks
15:35:21 <andi5> yep, why do you ask?
15:35:35 <andi5> hm... was clean here
15:35:39 <cstim> ok
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15:55:31 <andi5> @tell andrewsw please tell me a revision you feel comfortable with, so that i can backport all your report changes until that point before the release
15:55:31 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
15:56:09 <andi5> seems like i will have to build an orbit dll :-(
15:58:45 <andi5> warlord: ping
16:02:47 <andi5> any opinions regarding http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16601 http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16597 http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16598 or http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/16610
16:11:28 <Rol1> Hi
16:11:43 <Rol1> I am trying to cross-compile gnucash with openembedded.org
16:11:45 <andi5> hoi
16:11:59 <Rol1> Here is where I am
16:12:02 <Rol1> | checking for ./src/swig-runtime.h... configure: error: cannot check for file existence when cross compiling
16:12:22 <Rol1> It fails at the configure stage
16:12:46 <Rol1> Can anybody provide a hint as to what can be done?
16:13:02 <Rol1> Where are the compile masters?
16:13:04 <andi5> you landed in the case "BUILDING_FROM_SVN==no" which means that file must be there...
16:13:25 <andi5> make sure you have swig and something that makes gnucash think you compile from svn
16:13:27 <Rol1> Should I build from svn?
16:13:31 <Rol1> I could try that
16:13:40 <andi5> one possibility
16:13:47 <Rol1> OK, let's try that
16:16:39 <warlord> andi5: pong
16:17:02 <andi5> i guess that is ok for a ping over the atlantic ocean
16:17:08 <andi5> see above :)
16:18:08 <warlord> i was at lunch.
16:18:18 <andi5> i hope it was good =)
16:18:50 <warlord> it was
16:19:30 <warlord> 16601 is fine.
16:19:55 <warlord> you should ask jsled about 16597
16:20:10 <dsa> i thought that trunk = 2.2
16:20:34 <warlord> I'd have to look at the rest of the code for 16598 but I trust that you've balanced it all appropriately.
16:21:04 <andi5> dsa: 2.2 is the current stable branch of GnuCash... the latest release there is 2.2.1.... trunk is the branch that will eventually lead to the stable 2.4.x releases and could be called unstable (though it is not right now)
16:21:07 <warlord> 16610 looks okay, but you should talk to jsled
16:21:19 <andi5> warlord: thanks a lot :)
16:21:21 <warlord> Rol1: we dont particularly support cross-compliation well.
16:21:44 <Rol1> well, time to better support it ;-)
16:21:47 <warlord> dsa: no, trunk is effectively 2.2.99
16:21:50 <dsa> andi5: 2.4.x? why not 2.3.x?
16:21:52 <Rol1> OE is a great tool at making it possible
16:21:55 <warlord> Rol1: Sure. Send us patches to make it work.
16:22:03 <andi5> dsa: well, 2.3.x and then 2.4.x, you are right
16:22:06 <Rol1> The warlord answer ;-)
16:22:10 <dsa> thanks
16:22:53 <Rol1> warlord: I am quite confident that it can be done just within OE. Quite a few beasts have already been tamed, unfortunately not by me, though
16:22:53 <warlord> Of course. TANNSAAFL
16:23:12 <warlord> ok
16:23:16 <Rol1> warlord: Did I ever ask for a free lunch?
16:23:23 <Rol1> You should know better by now
16:23:30 <warlord> :-D
16:24:16 <andi5> warlord: may you please provide an expanded form of your abbreviation? google has rather sparse results...
16:24:38 <andi5> someone should make google index the logs then :)
16:25:11 <andi5> btw, does the channel lack a topic or is it just me?
16:25:38 <chris> andi5: it's just you.
16:25:46 <andi5> :-(
16:26:03 <warlord> Oops, extra N. There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. TANSTAAFL
16:26:20 <andi5> aaah :)
16:26:36 <cstim> Rol1: Where did you get the source from? A tarball (which one) or from svn?
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16:26:52 <Rol1> cstim: tar
16:27:07 <Rol1> But OE supports all kinds of different fetch modes
16:27:38 <cstim> andi5: did you also consider http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-December/021746.html
16:27:46 <cstim> Rol1: which gnucash tarball version exactly?
16:28:06 <andi5> cstim: ah right...thanks
16:28:59 <andi5> cstim: i will apply the patch on windows after minimal testing
16:29:20 <cstim> Rol1: because in all released gnucash tarballs, the file src/swig-runtime.h should be there - please check in that tarball.
16:29:33 <Rol1> cstim: I had tried to create a recipe for OE when 2.1.1 was the latest
16:29:46 <Rol1> I have just updated that to 2.2.1
16:29:49 <cstim> andi5: yes - I'm a bit afraid about the character encoding, though
16:29:57 <andi5> so am i
16:30:11 <Rol1> cstim: And I will look for the file in the gnucash source and do the OE thing from there
16:31:14 <cstim> Rol1: please define "the gnucash source" more precisely. Do you mean a tarball? yes, it must be in there. Or do you mean "the actual source in SVN"? No, it's not there.
16:31:28 <Rol1> tarball
16:31:37 <Rol1> I will give you the exact URL in a second
16:32:00 <andi5> sure it is in the tarball :)
16:32:04 <Rol1> http://kent.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gnucash/gnucash-2.2.1.tar.bz2
16:33:01 <Rol1> yes, the question is whether it is sufficient for it to be in the tarball
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16:33:12 <Rol1> The error indicatted that it might not be
16:33:12 <andi5> oh, hi nbinont
16:33:20 <andi5> that frees me from writing an email :)
16:33:21 <nbinont> hi andi5!
16:33:21 <gncbot> nbinont: Sent 5 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago: <andi5> how is your next weekend?
16:33:49 <nbinont> this weekend?
16:33:52 <andi5> correct
16:33:58 <andi5> maybe monday or so?
16:34:13 <andi5> iirc this was your preferred day of week
16:34:22 <nbinont> yah, Monday works
16:34:58 <nbinont> possibly sunday night, but monday for sure
16:35:16 <andi5> nice.... would be cool if you followed the COMM_FAILURE bug as i will probably post something tomorrow
16:36:05 <nbinont> I think I'm cc'd on that bug already
16:36:09 <andi5> yep
16:36:13 <andi5> you are ;-)
16:36:16 <nbinont> did they put out a release?
16:36:20 <andi5> nope
16:36:27 <nbinont> ah
16:37:45 <nbinont> are we considering patching it ourselves or letting it go until the next release? (sorry...just got back from work & haven't checked anything)
16:38:08 <warlord> nbinont: I think andi5 wants to patch it ourselves..
16:38:25 <nbinont> cool
16:38:26 <andi5> yep... but one second please
16:39:51 <andi5> i was just confusing two names when reading the orbit2 2.14.10 release news (oct 15)
16:40:15 <andi5> yes, i will try to build a dll this night and hope someone will test it for me
16:40:38 <andi5> in case it works, we will need to use that before creating the setup.exe, nbinont :-)
16:41:58 <nbinont> ok
16:43:25 <nbinont> I think I can tighten up the firewall rules on my machine to make windows complain, though it's been a while since I tried
16:43:45 <nbinont> send me the dll and I'll see if it works for me
16:43:52 <andi5> ah, cool :)
16:48:00 <Rol1> What is the file swig-runtime.h acutally being needed for? I guess GUI? Would it be possible to deactivate a certain gnucash feature and have that out of the picture for the time being?
16:49:18 <andi5> actually this file is essential for the guile wrappers, so everything schemish would not run... that looks like a no-op to me
16:54:40 <cstim> see ya
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16:57:43 <Rol1> OK
17:00:04 <dsa> are plugins optional components that end users can install and turn on and off, or are they just the internal framework in which new features are added?
17:01:09 <andi5> what do you mean by plugin? GncPlugin?
17:02:55 <dsa> i'm looking at the list of modules, and under GUI>Window/Plugin Structure, I see an entry for Plugins.
17:03:26 <dsa> Specifically, under that, there is an entry for Menu Only Plugins.
17:03:53 <dsa> I think I have the difference between Menu Only Plugins and Content Plugins figured out.
17:04:10 <dsa> Content plugins actually have a window, while menu only plugins just modify the pulldown menus.
17:04:40 <andi5> are you writing a plugin?
17:04:58 <dsa> That depends on what a plugin in for GncCash. :)
17:05:02 <dsa> *is
17:05:04 <andi5> hehe
17:05:22 <dsa> Let me ask the question in a different way...
17:05:30 <andi5> i think all plugins gnucash has can only be turned on and off while configuring
17:06:03 <andi5> (or not at all... i do not know whether gnucash even compiles without gui)
17:06:24 <dsa> If someone where to write code to implement a new feature in GnuCash, would they do that as a plugin? Are there any cases where they would not?
17:07:46 <andi5> i suppose that depends on what that feature is about... if it is an importer, than it will likely be a plugin
17:08:07 <dsa> In other OTHER words, what the heck is a plugin? Is it the way that new functionality is added to the core program, or is it instead for "external" features that "plug in."
17:08:20 <andi5> hehe
17:08:33 <andi5> do not ask me, i am just scratching surfaces ;-)
17:09:51 <andi5> dsa: so yes, a plugin is a way to add new functionality to the core program
17:10:05 <andi5> and no, new features need not to be plugins
17:11:21 <andi5> but please ask warlord or the gnucash-devel mailing list for more accurate answers... i expect that describing your special case will help :)
17:11:32 <dsa> might it be appropriate to say that plugins are for features that not everyone, or perhaps not most people, will be likely to use?
17:12:06 <warlord> a plugin is for non-core features.
17:12:10 <warlord> imports.
17:12:11 <warlord> reports
17:12:13 <warlord> business
17:12:15 <warlord> all non-core
17:12:20 <dsa> if the feature were to be something that most people would use, then it wouldn't be a plugin
17:12:20 <warlord> the register.. that's a core.
17:12:37 <warlord> It's hard to answer that in the abstract.
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17:13:26 <dsa> well, i had talked about the ability to click a button to email an invoice. that sounds like core functionality to me--similar to print function.
17:13:52 <andi5> sounds like something for business-gnome to me ...
17:14:22 <dsa> is business-gnome a plugin?
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17:14:59 <warlord> yes
17:15:12 <warlord> all of 'business' is a plugin
17:15:15 <andi5> yep
17:15:20 <dsa> ah, that helps. so, really what i am looking to do is modify an existing plugin.
17:15:26 <warlord> however, that feature would be a part of the business plugin.
17:15:32 <warlord> yes
17:24:25 *** andrewsw-afk is now known as andrewsw
17:25:14 <andrewsw> .
17:25:14 <gncbot> andrewsw: Sent 1 hour and 29 minutes ago: <andi5> please tell me a revision you feel comfortable with, so that i can backport all your report changes until that point before the release
17:25:39 <andrewsw> andi5: when's the release?
17:25:47 <andi5> sunday or monday
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17:30:47 <andrewsw> andi5: why don't you take up to 16633. anything after that is "new feature".
17:31:19 <andi5> ok... sounds good to me
17:32:01 <andrewsw> also, have you seen: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007/12/2007-12-13.html#T15:41:07
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17:32:39 <andrewsw> its a really minor little thing, and technically not a gnucash problem but it plays havoc with a couple WM's out there.
17:32:50 <andi5> no, i have not seen that
17:32:54 <andrewsw> (including mine ;)
17:33:10 <andi5> so you can test it?
17:33:42 <andrewsw> I have tested it on my machine, just commenting out the gtk_widget_hide
17:33:53 <andrewsw> and it works fine, but I don't know the greater implications.
17:34:15 <andrewsw> You were obviously trying to either coddle windows or make something pretty.
17:34:57 <andrewsw> but I can't test it on a windows machine to see what it means in that context.
17:35:01 <andi5> i suppose the idea is to show the dialog and all of its child widgets, then hide only the top-level dialog widget... but i have not looked at it closely yet
17:35:19 <andrewsw> you have it exactly.
17:35:41 <andi5> but why does it havoc your wm?
17:35:46 <andrewsw> and then some things get tweaked and then the top-level dialog widget get's shown again.
17:36:02 <andrewsw> the short version is it gets confused.
17:36:34 <andi5> what wm do you use?
17:36:44 <andrewsw> and the dialog gets mapped and then destroyed and you can't search.
17:36:47 <andrewsw> xmonad.
17:36:59 <andrewsw> it also fails on something else (escapes me now).
17:37:16 <andi5> there is no ubuntu package for it :(
17:37:38 <andrewsw> nope. there are .debs over at the real debian repositories
17:39:28 <andi5> did you revert r16078?
17:40:01 <andrewsw> no. just commented out the one line locally.
17:40:19 <andrewsw> other wm's involved: fvwm2, E17
17:40:39 <andi5> so if xmonad devs are active, why do not they fix their code then?
17:40:51 <andi5> unless you tell me it is a problem with ours
17:41:47 <andrewsw> they do fix their code, and in fact it is fixed in darcs.
17:42:03 <andi5> cool
17:42:48 <andrewsw> All I'm saying is that since their are other WM's involved and its a fairly important piece of gnucash, we might want to try and play nicer on our end too.
17:43:05 <andi5> hahaha ;-)
17:43:08 <andrewsw> there is a user thread: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2007-November/022651.html
17:43:24 <andrewsw> don't you mean: mwuhahaha!
17:43:46 <andi5> rrrright
17:45:05 <andi5> ok, i might look at it
17:45:17 <andrewsw> fair enough
17:45:50 * andrewsw makes andi5 regret pushing svn access... ;)
17:45:59 <andi5> lol
17:48:01 <andrewsw> on the subject of releases and bugfixes...
17:48:19 <andi5> bugs?
17:48:27 <andrewsw> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487572
17:48:34 <andrewsw> there's a patch I've been sitting on there
17:48:42 <andi5> arrrgh, i begin to regret ;-)
17:48:50 <andrewsw> it's a total hack, but prevents the ...
17:48:52 <andrewsw> LOL
17:49:32 <andrewsw> report crash. I've been sitting on it because it's a hack that *only* prevents the crash and doesn't actually fix the underlying problem.
17:50:20 <andrewsw> educate me here. should I commit the current patch for backporting to prevent the crash, or sit on it some more as I'll likely not get to the real fix in time.
17:51:01 <jsled> Preventing crashes is good, and itself backport worthy.
17:51:12 <andi5> ack... *still reading*
17:51:47 * andrewsw loves his clicky keyboard.
17:52:15 <andi5> *click* *click* ;-)
17:53:29 <andi5> jsled: may you take a look at that patch and the two derek left to you above?
17:54:49 <jsled> andi5: Is there a motivation to do so now? I'm about to head afk, but should be able to look it over tomorrow more readily.
17:55:13 <andi5> jsled: no, anything until sunday or monday (i will shout) will be ok
17:55:23 <jsled> Ah ... gearing up for 2.2.2?
17:55:23 <andi5> andrewsw: meanwhile, please go commit to trunk
17:55:28 <andi5> yeah
17:55:43 <andrewsw> righto, thanks for the advice (and patience!)
17:55:49 <jsled> excellent. We've a big storm coming tomorrow, so I was hoping to get a couple more bugs fixed, too.
17:56:00 <andi5> NICE :)
17:56:03 <andi5> we need more storms
17:56:14 <jsled> Oh, I guess it's scheduled for sunday, now.
17:56:20 <andi5> arrgh ;-)
17:56:28 <andrewsw> I will commit that and try to get on the real fix, if I have time. kids b-ball tourney this weekend. so probably not.
17:56:36 <jsled> Still, I will try to at least look at those tomorrow. :)
17:56:45 <andi5> thanks
17:56:58 <andrewsw> okay, later guys.
17:57:03 <andi5> cu andrewsw
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18:00:40 <andi5> bye
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18:06:57 <dsa> does gnucash use libglade?
18:08:23 <dsa> or is glade used to generate c code?
18:08:38 <chris> dsa: it uses libglade.
18:09:12 <dsa> so, in theory, i should be able to change an XML file on the fly, without recompiling, and see the change take effect, right?
18:09:51 <chris> in theory. :)
18:10:37 <dsa> does using libglade slow things down at all?
18:13:31 <chris> This is UI we're talking about.
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19:05:11 <Rol1> warlord: http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/configure.in.patch might be the patch you are looking for
19:05:30 <Rol1> I'll apply it locally in OE for now and let you know if cross-compilation succeeds
19:07:22 <warlord> Rol1: please do that. That patch looks reasonable to me.
19:10:14 <Rol1> Apparently, a bit more patching is still needed do_configure still fails
19:10:23 <Rol1> I will take a look into it tomorrow
19:18:10 <dsa> i'm finding that i need to learn a ton before i can start--subversion, doxygen, scheme, gtk+, glade, etc. lol
19:26:54 <warlord> Umm.. You really dont need to know that much, dsa.
19:27:04 <warlord> Yes, you need SVN. You dont need doxygen.
19:27:20 <warlord> You only need scheme if you're working in a small subset of the code (qif import, reports)
19:27:27 <warlord> gtk you probably need.
19:27:56 <warlord> glade is just a UI interface builder, and you only need to learn that if you're modifying the layout of the interfaces. And even then it's pretty much just a point-and-click app.
19:37:00 <dsa> warlord: i am working in reports--specifically invoices. also, because the feature i am considering writing basically involves the ability to select an option that allows the emailing of such reports, i don't see how to add the button to the toolbar and menu without using glade (i read somewhere that manual editing of the ui files is not recommended.)
19:40:07 <warlord> I have no idea how the ui files are generated. However I dont see how you need the edit the report scheme to cause it to get emailed. I would think that that would be something akin to "print to pdf and open in mailer"
19:44:25 * andrewsw-afk is drive by commenting again
19:44:56 <andrewsw-afk> dsa: why not add features to the html-export so that you could "export" to email that way? just a though
19:44:59 <andrewsw-afk> t
19:45:16 * andrewsw-afk drives away
19:47:04 <dsa> i suppose that email could become one type of "export" but somehow, to me at least, email seemed to be a separate function, on par with printing and/or exporting.
19:52:35 <warlord> To me I see email as a target of either printing or exporting.
19:52:54 <warlord> I dont see it necessarily as a first-class operation.. Although I could certainly see an argument for a shortcut.
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21:25:28 <Wanderer> How can I change the beginning balance on a reconciliation. I made a mistake when I started. All debits and all credits are correct and the balance agrees with the bank. The only difference is the beginning balance.
21:26:58 <jcreigh> Wanderer: I think you should just be able to open up the account that has the mistake, find the transactions that says "Opening Balance" and change the amount.
21:27:08 <warlord> jcreigh: nope, not what's wrong
21:27:26 <warlord> Wanderer: just ignore the opening balance; make sure the ending balance is correct, and re-reconcile the "extra" transaction.
21:27:36 <jcreigh> warlord: oh, you're right.
21:27:36 <jcreigh> sorry
21:28:01 <warlord> no prob
21:28:15 <warlord> anyways, I need to go. can you help Wanderer from here if he (she?) has more questions?
21:28:37 * warlord waves
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22:06:31 <renato> Hi there... I've downloaded gnucash from svn and when I try to build it with autogen.sh, it fails with a message of automake failed.. anyone had this problem ?
22:06:31 <gncbot> renato: Sent 1 day, 20 hours, and 42 minutes ago: <warlord> send patches to the -devel list, or file a bug report in bugzilla and attach the patch there? Small patches are better than large ones.
22:06:55 <renato> I'm using ubuntu 7.10...
22:10:46 <renato> hello ?
22:10:49 <renato> ne1 ?
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23:07:15 <Wanderer> Hi again. I asked a question earlier then before I saw any answers I had a family situation and had to leave the house suddenly. Does anyone know how I can change the beginning
23:09:27 <Wanderer> amount of a reconciliation. Everything is correct but the difference shows there to be something not accounted. All debits and credits are correct, and agree with the bank. The only difference is that the reconciliation beginning balance is wrong. (Yes, I did it, not the program.)
23:12:47 <Wanderer> Also, I am new to chat rooms. I can see what I have written. How do I find an answer when it is posted. I can see there are 24 people in the room but I see nothing else except my own writings.
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23:21:28 <jcreigh> Wanderer: well, most people you see in an IRC channel aren't really there...they just leave they IRC program running all the time. So there's probably actually only a couple people online ATM, dispite the many people listed.
23:23:50 <Wanderer> Thank you jcreigh! I kinda thought I would see something if I waited per the introduction statement. Honestly though, I have had only one other communication on a chat room and don't remember what it was about. I'll be patient and wait a while longer.
23:24:06 <jcreigh> Wanderer: did you see what warlord said to you earlier?
23:25:28 <jcreigh> (from before): <@warlord> Wanderer: just ignore the opening balance; make sure the ending balance is correct, and re-reconcile the "extra" transaction.
23:26:03 <Wanderer> No I did not. As I said earlier, I had a family situation develop and since I inherited the disciplining of several grandchildren, I had to leave rather quickly. I had left the computer on to wait for a response but it quit by itself.
23:26:12 <jcreigh> (I've haven't yet used the reconile feature, so I don't know anything about it one way or the other.)
23:26:25 <jcreigh> ah, okay. I quoted his reply for you above.
23:30:18 <Wanderer> OK I now have his statement. The problem I have is that there are no "extra" transactions. I have double checked on two computers with different accounting systems and all entries are identical. The only reason I cannot get it to give me a zero difference is that the beginning balance is not correct. I see no way to complete this reconciliation and start again by changing the "new" beginning balance and I looked but perhaps it is called something with which
23:31:48 <jcreigh> hmm
23:32:23 <Wanderer> 10 years and the terminology of gnucash is vastly different. (Did I mention I'm trying to get completely away from Windoze based "stuff"? Maybe I'll learn to not hit the carriage return (enter) before I'm ready.
23:38:39 <jcreigh> I apologize, but I'm not yet used that feature of Gnucash, so I don't know how it works.
23:38:57 <jcreigh> I know it would be extra work, but can you cancel the reconile and start over with the right amount?
23:41:04 <Wanderer> Thanks for the response. I'll try tomorrow, or Monday, when perhaps someone in the room can answer the question.
23:41:25 <jcreigh> you might also try asking your question on the mailing list. (hold on a sec, I'll get you a link)
23:41:46 <jcreigh> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
23:42:20 <jcreigh> The one you would want to post to is probably "gnucash-user". There's also a search feature there that lets you search the archives and see if anyone has had a similar problem before.
23:43:33 <Wanderer> OK thanks. I'll try that list and then put it up for the night. I appreciate the help.
23:43:50 <jcreigh> no problem. Sorry I can't help your particular issue.
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