2007-11-29 GnuCash IRC logs

00:08:36 *** mjchang has quit IRC
01:34:52 *** Rolf has quit IRC
01:42:45 *** roger_mudd has quit IRC
02:02:59 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
02:12:20 *** Zoolooc has quit IRC
03:07:37 *** Rolf has quit IRC
03:19:46 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
05:05:34 *** kielein has joined #gnucash
05:35:11 *** cortilap has joined #gnucash
05:53:57 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
06:16:22 *** Cafesolo has joined #gnucash
06:16:26 <Cafesolo> hello everybody
06:17:05 <Cafesolo> is there any example gnucash file for downloading?
06:29:19 *** Cafesolo has quit IRC
06:30:14 *** Cafesolo has joined #gnucash
06:58:31 *** kielein has quit IRC
07:00:11 *** ErKa has quit IRC
07:00:38 *** kielein has joined #gnucash
07:02:37 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
07:23:26 *** ABCDEF has joined #gnucash
07:28:01 *** Cafesolo has quit IRC
07:29:14 *** ABCDEF has quit IRC
07:55:10 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
08:15:46 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
09:16:18 *** tjanssen has joined #gnucash
09:29:19 *** drid has joined #gnucash
09:29:31 <drid> hi all
09:29:47 <drid> i have an invoice/tax related question/problem
09:30:13 <warlord> don't meta-ask
09:31:14 <warlord> (see the /topic)
09:31:54 <drid> i have created an entry for $1000 and i have a 20% tax, when "tax included" is not checked i get subtotal 1000 and tax 200 as i expected, but when it is checked i get subtotal 833 and tax 166 where i would expect subtotal 800 and tax 200 according to the manual
09:32:11 <drid> bug or feature?
09:32:59 <drid> its gnucash 2.2.1 on ubuntu 7.10
09:33:34 <warlord> The manual is incorrect
09:34:42 <warlord> The computation is always <subtotal> + <tax = subtotal*taxrate> = <total>
09:35:16 *** ural0 has joined #gnucash
09:35:34 *** ural0 has left #gnucash
09:35:49 <warlord> The "taxincluded" flag just defines which parts of that equation are the knowns and which is the unknown.
09:38:10 <drid> i see, well what i need to do is to provide the total amount and get the subtotal calculated, can it be done?
09:39:19 <drid> a subtotal-tax kind of thing
09:40:25 <warlord> nope
09:40:37 <drid> ok, thanks
09:40:47 <warlord> You could recompute the "tax" rate
09:40:53 <warlord> .. to make it what you want.
09:41:38 <warlord> e.g. subtotal * 1+x = total
09:42:10 <drid> how can i do that?
09:42:14 <warlord> So, if you want total == 1000 and subtotal = 800, then you can compute (1000/800) - 1 = x
09:42:37 <warlord> So, you want a tax rate of 25%
09:42:46 <warlord> (tax included)
09:43:23 <warlord> this is all simple algebra.
09:43:27 <drid> yeap it works that way, thank you very much
09:43:56 <warlord> you're welcome.
09:44:09 <warlord> And yes, the docs should get fixed. Can you point me to the docs URL?
09:45:45 <drid> file:///usr/share/gnucash/gnome/help/gnucash/C/gnucash-guide.xml#bus-ar-invoiceedit2
09:46:09 <drid> does it help?
09:46:13 <warlord> Yep.
09:46:14 <warlord> Thank!
09:53:19 *** drid has left #gnucash
10:07:19 *** kielein has quit IRC
10:14:05 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
10:21:17 *** donfede has joined #gnucash
10:35:19 *** ErKa has quit IRC
10:57:56 *** cortilap has quit IRC
11:00:14 *** twunder has quit IRC
11:23:00 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
13:04:07 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
14:25:48 *** fell has joined #gnucash
14:29:59 *** fell has quit IRC
14:30:46 *** fell has joined #gnucash
14:47:52 *** tim_abell has joined #gnucash
14:59:13 <fell> Hi, can we on http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash get a link [GnuCash/de german version (in progress)]?
15:00:05 <warlord> fell: you should ask cstim to do it; he's got permissions and he can insert the proper german wording on the front page.
15:01:16 <fell> Ok, I will do.
15:02:06 <jsled> fell: I've added one, but if cstim can/wants to improve it, he's of course welcome.
15:03:35 <fell> Fine :)
15:08:45 <fell> .. but, sorry, I made a mistake, I was redirectet, it should be De/GnuCash. The convention was, to start all germen pages with De/.
15:11:11 *** rhowe has quit IRC
15:11:29 *** rhowe has joined #gnucash
15:28:26 *** rhowe has quit IRC
15:40:03 *** warlord has quit IRC
15:48:15 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
15:48:15 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
15:48:38 <andrewsw> hey warlord
15:49:08 <andrewsw> any advice on what to do with the adv. portfolio report? we've got two competing versions that *seem* to solve the same problems.
15:49:41 <warlord> Is there any reason to choose one over the other? Is any one particularly faster or cleaner?
15:50:09 <andrewsw> well... of course *mine* is cleaner, faster, better commented and algorithmically pure, but other than that...
15:50:19 <jsled> heh
15:50:35 <warlord> hehe.
15:50:44 <warlord> Well, I need to take the dog for a walk, so.. I'll be back shortly.
15:51:18 <andrewsw> seriously though, I've just never dealt with this. I haven't had opportunity to review chang's code yet so can't answer that question
15:51:23 <andrewsw> nice walkies!
15:52:30 <andrewsw> I was curious, in a more general way, to know your past experiences with this and how these things resolve.
15:52:53 <andrewsw> I suppose it just sort of works out though.
15:55:22 *** tim_abell has quit IRC
16:25:20 *** Zoolooc has joined #gnucash
16:27:56 *** Bill_ has joined #gnucash
16:28:29 <warlord> Usually there's a clear "winner" technically.
16:30:48 <Bill_> Hey all, I'm starting a new business and don't have time to try out a lot of different software and am wondering how well gnuchash replicates the functionality of quicken and/or quickbooks and i'm also wondering if my accountant will be able to read the exported files from gnucash
16:31:21 <andrewsw> warlord: I think its me, now that I read his code, but I'm no expert.
16:32:00 <andrewsw> Bill_: many of us use gnc in our businesses. We typically send our accountants appropriate year-end reports. Do you have a specific question?
16:32:38 <warlord> andrewsw: hehe
16:33:10 <Bill_> yeah, can i export _files_ (as opposed to sending reports) that my cpa can read in other software, such as quick books
16:33:40 <warlord> Bill_: there's a piece of software called "gnucash2qif" that will convert a gnucash XML file to QIF. Gnucash itself has no "export" per se.
16:33:52 <Bill_> cool
16:34:00 <andrewsw> with gnc available for just about every platform, your accountant could surely install gnucash and read the file directly, too...
16:34:08 <Bill_> true
16:34:48 <warlord> but I've been using GNC for my business for the last... 5? years?... and I just give them an end-of-year Income Statement, Balance Sheet, and a Transaction Report.. Never had a problem
16:34:58 <Bill_> so gnucash has all the functionality of any other small business accounting package?
16:35:20 <andrewsw> Bill_: no. it does not have inventory or payroll and some other stuff too.
16:35:35 <Bill_> ok, i dont need those yet
16:35:41 <warlord> Define "all"
16:36:20 <andrewsw> but it is a full-fledged double-entry accounting package and can do, I think, just about anything you could ever want to do in a strictly accounting framework.
16:37:35 <Bill_> by all, i suppose what i am really asking is if it has equivalent functionality to quicken
16:38:47 <warlord> pretty much, yes. There may be missing corner cases.
16:39:09 <andrewsw> its just different. quicken doesn't support true double-entry, but has some other things that gnc doesn't have. At least that was the case 3 years ago.
16:39:37 <Bill_> will it help me keep track of accounts payable and receivable, by providing me reminders of due dates?
16:40:42 <warlord> It wont provide reminders for receivables.
16:40:54 <andrewsw> it will notify of payable due with a configurable "days in advance".
16:41:16 <Bill_> cool
16:41:43 <Bill_> well, i'll give it a shot and see how it works out, thanks for your help
16:42:00 <andrewsw> Bill_: subscribe to gnucash-user.
16:42:10 <Bill_> ok
16:51:31 *** Bill_ has quit IRC
16:52:07 <andrewsw> I've just had the realization that I'm no longer qualified to comment on Intuit products. That's really cool!
16:53:24 <warlord> hehehehe
16:56:41 <andrewsw> I haven't even booted my qemu image (holds my quickbooks file) since july and that was for web testing in IE...
16:59:01 <warlord> LOL!
17:04:55 *** Pete1 has joined #gnucash
17:05:44 *** twunder has quit IRC
17:06:36 <Pete1> I'm trying out gnucash and like it so far.
17:06:45 <Pete1> I have a question about budgeting.
17:07:03 <andrewsw> Pete1: don't spend more than you take in. ;-P
17:07:27 * andrewsw is feeling snarky today. sorry.
17:07:52 <Pete1> Right now I've setup a monthly budget (for just one item) and it only shows up in the specific month -- next month will it copy that amount over or do I have to enter it each month?
17:07:58 <Pete1> It is good advice!
17:07:59 <Pete1> :)
17:10:03 <Pete1> I would be fine with setting up and annual budget and letting it divide by 12 but it doesn't seem like it does that.
17:13:57 <andrewsw> Pete1: I don't use budgets (maybe that's why I have no $), but I'll try to help.
17:14:13 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
17:14:15 <andrewsw> I note that the "estimate" tool fills out amounts going forward.
17:14:49 <Pete1> Oh -- I thought the estimate tool was for using what you had already spent to get a handle on what your budget would be.
17:15:07 <andrewsw> yes. but it fills out that estimation going forward.
17:16:31 <Pete1> I just filled in an amount for a category (Gas) for $200 and hit "estimate" and it turned it all into zeros.
17:17:12 <Pete1> I think put the date back a month to 11/1 (I just have a months data in right now) and it hit estimate and it filled in $300 for Nov and zeros for the rest
17:17:31 <Pete1> I'm sure I'm missing something easy
17:17:46 <donfede> almost sounds like it's estimating for the month you've put in, but has no data to estimate the other months...
17:18:16 <andrewsw> maybe so, estimating a 0.00 for December because you have no december txn's from last year?
17:18:21 <Pete1> I have the amounts I want to put in, I just want to be able to enter them once instead of having to enter them every month.
17:19:03 <Pete1> Or, enter in an annual amount and have it divide by 12 to tell me how I'm doing each month and also be able to run a report for "x" number of months.
17:22:02 <donfede> Pete1: yes, budgeting could use a lot of optimizations (yearly totals is something i've been eyeing myself) ... hopefully when I finish this school semester I can sink in some time to push things along
17:23:07 <Pete1> Is there not a way to auto-populate from one month to the next that you know of?
17:23:14 <andrewsw> it looks like it *doesn't* do this... filling out through the year.
17:23:21 <andrewsw> at least at first glance through the docs
17:23:28 <Pete1> I didn't see it either.
17:23:33 <andrewsw> brb
17:24:22 <donfede> Pete1: i personally had trouble even entering budget values and then tabbing to the next month (so quick data entry did not even work) ... instead I had to mouse click the next field... do you experience the same? (I'm on debian unstable using gnucash 2.1)
17:24:55 <Pete1> I'll check...
17:25:53 <Pete1> If I hit tab it takes me to the next field but discards what I had put in the field I was in.
17:26:16 <andrewsw> works here in deb sid 2.2.1 (actually, sorry, its svn) enter amount-> <enter> -> <tab> to next cell. The extra <enter> is counter-intuitive to me.
17:26:20 <Pete1> I'm using Ubuntu Gusty and 2.2.1
17:28:07 <Pete1> Enter-Tab works (accepts what I had entered and moves to the next month)
17:28:22 <andrewsw> if you have past expense amounts, and you estimate starting one calendar year in the past, it will fill those amounts in in the corresponding month's going forward.
17:28:28 <donfede> i'll have to try that tonight (any idea why the extra <enter> ?)
17:29:01 <andrewsw> so I have an expense feb 07 and again in may 07. I estimate from 11/01/06(!) and it picks those up and puts them out in feb and may 08 respectively.
17:32:26 <Pete1> I know in the docs it talks about two different budgets, Annual and Monthly with the difference being that Monthly can have a different amount each month. I guess what I really want is an Annual/12. I was just hoping for a shortcut to make monthly act that way.
17:33:40 <Pete1> I like the estimate but it won't work for a year. :-)
17:34:17 <andrewsw> and estimate doesn't probably do what you want in that it gives *past* amounts, not amounts you want going forward.
17:34:27 <Pete1> Right.
17:34:55 <andrewsw> meanwhile, I also can't see any way to copy amounts forward as you enter them too.
17:35:26 <andrewsw> But it does look like its not a half bad system despite those apparent shortcomings.
17:36:07 <Pete1> I agree -- I think the estimate will be very cool after a year's worth of data.
17:37:40 <andrewsw> this is interesting reading: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Budgets and it suggests that its still a work in progress.
17:38:22 <andrewsw> the stuff about Recurrences leads me to think it was never quite resolved, but I don't know. Chris Shoemaker is the dev who did all that work.
17:38:43 <andrewsw> he's around... you might post to gnucash-user for more help.
17:38:54 <Pete1> Cool -- Thanks for the help
17:39:18 <andrewsw> sorry it wasn't more helpful.
17:39:29 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
17:39:51 <Pete1> You were helpful -- I know not to keep looking. :-)
17:40:33 <andrewsw> :)
17:42:05 <donfede> andrewsw: yes, a good wiki entry on budgets (nice history / overview) ... but last updated Feb 2007 :(
17:42:51 <donfede> Pete1: can you share what your budget angle will be? continue with it, or try something else? ( I've been working on my own budget, and it's sort of halted right now :()
17:43:27 <Pete1> I'll probably try to just enter them in 12 times right now and see how that works
17:43:56 <Pete1> <ctrl-v><enter><tab> rinse and repeat
17:44:10 <andrewsw> blah
17:44:23 <andrewsw> just a simple fill-right
17:44:31 <andrewsw> says the guys who couldn't begin to code it.
17:44:53 <Pete1> I've been doing a separate spreadsheet and that is a hassle.
17:45:17 <andrewsw> ooh. read down on that wiki page a bit, you might be able to import a budget?
17:46:02 <andrewsw> scratch that. it goes the other way -- info *out* of gnucash, not into gnucsah
17:51:47 *** twunder has quit IRC
18:10:44 *** ErKa has quit IRC
19:03:36 *** roger_mudd has joined #gnucash
19:09:33 *** roger_mudd has quit IRC
19:36:30 *** donfede has quit IRC
19:44:45 *** rhowe has joined #gnucash
19:48:02 *** rhowe has quit IRC
19:48:07 *** rhowe has joined #gnucash
19:49:28 *** cortana has joined #gnucash
19:52:16 <andrewsw> later folks...
19:52:51 <jsled> take care andrewsw
20:08:05 <warlord> see ya andrewsw
21:16:45 *** cortana has quit IRC
21:22:15 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
22:21:26 *** sn0n has joined #gnucash
22:23:05 *** sn0n has left #gnucash
22:55:32 *** Zoolooc has quit IRC
23:03:54 *** Zoolooc has joined #gnucash
23:15:15 *** tjanssen has quit IRC