2007-11-12 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:15:22 <warlord> chris, jsled: could one of you op gncbot?
07:15:29 <warlord> (and reset the /topic)
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08:19:29 *** chris changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, just ask and *wait*. 2.2.1 released. <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. Channel is *publically-logged* <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>."
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08:21:45 <warlord> thank you chris
08:27:24 <chris> yw
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11:15:49 <jsled> imperito: QIF
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14:11:47 <PMadej> hello
14:12:36 <PMadej> warlord: do you have some new features roadmap for gnucash?
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14:28:16 <jsled> PMadej: we generally don't, no.
14:29:10 <PMadej> as i try to implement gnucash in my family bussiness i found lack of one feature
14:29:46 <PMadej> but to not be a person who only wants sth i want to give you sth from me as a kind of barter
14:30:16 <PMadej> i dont code but can translate docs / websites to polish language
14:30:37 <PMadej> and wanted to ask if you would agree on such cooperation
14:32:15 <jsled> You're welcome to contribute however you like; we always welcome contibutions! :)
14:32:44 <jsled> If you want a more specific guarantee that your feature will be implemneted, I'm not sure how you can get that apart from contracting with someone to do it.
14:33:51 <PMadej> well i don't know the team and the leader of gnucash project so i ask here what is opinion of active developers
14:34:56 <jsled> There's no explicit leader, per se.
14:35:00 <PMadej> for me this is little feature but this may need huge recoding in gnucash (negative total value bills and invoices and going this way probably payments)
14:38:48 <PMadej> so with whom could i talk about some coding?
14:40:17 <jsled> Your best bet is to send a mail to gnucash-devel.
14:40:18 <PMadej> sorry need to go offline for 1h if we could return to this topic then that would be great
14:40:42 <PMadej> ok i'll remember that
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15:00:03 <warlord> Sorry, forgot to mark myself AFK
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15:21:53 <marksv> I've d/l and installed the latest gnucash, installed it, got no errors. I found the docs etc, but it appeared to not install binaries. Any ideas. TIA
15:22:14 <warlord> marksv: what OS/Distro?
15:22:36 <marksv> SuSE 10.0 all updates
15:24:21 <warlord> And... how did you download gnucash? What did you download? And how did you install it?
15:26:41 <marksv> The .gz package from the site, opened w/ Archive manager, ooops, my bad. just noticed it was the docs package. Now it makes sense
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15:28:35 <warlord> and if you didn't download gnucash-docs, the gnucash .tar.gz is still just the sources. You should YAST install the gnucash package.
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15:30:50 <marksv> I'm not that good w/ the whole YAST thing. I've been able to get it installing rpm's but did not find any for gnucash. Besides it's not that big of a deal, configure, make, make install.
15:31:17 <warlord> did you look at the wiki?
15:31:24 <warlord> there are RPMs available
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15:32:03 <marksv> No I did not check the wiki, thanks for the pointer.
15:37:45 <warlord> no problem
15:40:09 <marksv> gotit - many thanks
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15:45:24 <PMadej> well little more than hour :)
15:47:04 <PMadej> are translation of documentation (guide and help docs) and web pages also tracked with svn?
15:49:25 <warlord> Yep.
15:49:35 <warlord> under gnucash-docs
16:04:47 <andrewsw> I'm working on advanced portfolio (ugh, why did I ever do that?)
16:05:42 <andrewsw> In your minds... which is better (more correct?) way to track splits/txns:
16:06:13 <andrewsw> look at splits anchored in the current account, and try to develop all required information (commodity, currency, price etc) or
16:06:38 <andrewsw> keep track of each txn in some list of already examined txns and interate through all splits looking for the info?
16:06:53 <andrewsw> I have real trouble wrapping my brain around all the possibilities.
16:10:07 <andrewsw> more direct question: is it possible to have multiple purchases of a a stock using different currencies within one stock account?
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16:19:04 <PMadej> andrewsw: you've asked about software possibility to maintain such pucharses or real world possibility?
16:20:14 <andrewsw> PMadej: I'm hacking on the advanced portfolio report which has a number of problems. I'm trying to get some bounds on the permutations of the different types of transactions.
16:21:07 <PMadej> well, im not a user of stock exchange but have some theoretical idea how it works
16:22:06 <andrewsw> There are many places to set the currency for that report. There is the currency which the report is displayed in. there is the currency that the stock is purchased in and related to that is the commodity being purchased. All three of those things have to exchange between each other.
16:23:14 <andrewsw> For example one could run the report so that it displays the value in US dollards of stocks purchased in both Euros and Yen. And you could be purchasing the same stocks in those different currencies.
16:23:18 <warlord> andrewsw: I think that yes, it's posisble to buy a commodity in one account using multiple currencies.
16:23:24 <andrewsw> Its a really messy problem.
16:24:16 <andrewsw> there were some fundamental misunderstandings on my part 2 years ago when I was working on it.
16:24:18 <warlord> It gets even more messy when you have to take into account which transactions need a "local-in-time" exchange rate, and which ones want a "nearest to 'now'" exchange rate.
16:25:19 <andrewsw> To cap it all off, the docs are written with certain expectations in mind, and the report as written doesn't have a clue abot what those expectations are. :(
16:26:52 <andrewsw> warlord: "local-in-time" meaning at the time of buy/sell? and "nearest to now" meaning relative to the report?
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16:28:00 <PMadej> andrewsw: sorry but my IPS is doing some reconfiguration and i got 2nd lan disconnection
16:29:11 <PMadej> what in gnucash is the difference between stock and commodity?
16:29:32 <PMadej> as i found commodity term is used only in connection with stock exchange
16:29:48 <PMadej> so stock is a valuable paper ?? and commodity?
16:29:54 <andrewsw> PMadej: I *think* stock is a subset of commodity, as well as currency. A commodity is *anything* you can buy and sell.
16:30:25 <PMadej> ok thats more clear for me now :)
16:30:35 <andrewsw> currency is one type of commodity, that happens to line up with money printed by governments while stock is ownership of something
16:30:55 <PMadej> yes that i understand
16:30:55 <warlord> andrewsw: yes
16:32:26 <andrewsw> I've reviewed the relevant bugs and all I can conclude is that I've royally messed up the report. There are some patches out there, but
16:32:42 <andrewsw> they seem to only address specific cases and not the overall problems.
16:33:30 <warlord> Not surprising.
16:33:34 <andrewsw> :(
16:33:53 <andrewsw> I think its going to take a lot of revision to get it into shape. THe problem I'm having is that the
16:34:04 <andrewsw> revisions needed to fix one part invariably break other parts.
16:34:59 <andrewsw> I'm starting to think (just now, unexamined idea) that the solution is to rebuild all the data outside the gnucash engine and then use that data to build the report.
16:35:10 <PMadej> andrewsw: some time before my disconnect you asked: is it possible to have multiple purchases of a a stock using different currencies within one stock account? generally it is possible but real world example is for me quite hard to make
16:35:44 <PMadej> because if i buy stock in my local SX all my transactions are exchanged to my local currency
16:35:44 <andrewsw> PMadej: the unfortunate answer is that yes, it can be done and we have to account for it.
16:36:32 <andrewsw> but nothing keeps you from holding stock in an account in another country under a nother currency. So you could own shares if IBM in both yen and euros and want to see the value of your IBM holdings in USD.
16:36:40 <PMadej> but if i buy sth on foreign SX all transactions will be exchanged to those SX currency
16:37:31 <PMadej> hmm you are right ... it is really possible
16:37:39 <warlord> andrewsw: what do you mean, "rebuild all the data outside the gnucash engine"?
16:38:31 <andrewsw> iterate through all the splits of the account once, collect the data, mash it up (handwaving) into some other data structure that better solves this problem and then regurgitate it.
16:38:54 <warlord> As opposed to...???
16:39:04 <andrewsw> right now we iterate through everything a couple of times looking for specific cases.
16:39:31 <andrewsw> and adjust the output based on those specific cases instead of collating all the info into a coherent thing (more handwaving)
16:40:00 <andrewsw> for example.
16:40:31 <andrewsw> right now I'm trying to fix the problem where the profit/loss split in a sale causes the basis to go all out of whack.
16:40:59 <warlord> I think it's perfectly reasonable to iterate over the splits once and then massage the data as necessary.
16:41:33 <andrewsw> currently the report looks at every split in the account and then looks at every split of the parent of those splits. That means
16:41:38 <andrewsw> yeah.
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16:43:18 <andrewsw> to continue. that means the txn that has the profit/loss split causes us to end up seeing the split with the actual shares in it twice
16:43:37 <andrewsw> and adjusting the basis for that txn.
16:44:28 <andrewsw> twice. the obvious solution is to only examine the split and not its parent's splits, so that you only see that split once.
16:45:05 <andrewsw> Well, that's easy, but then you start to lose other information that was gathered as you went along, like the price (kind of crucial) or the currency the the txn happened in (also crucial).
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16:45:22 <warlord> Okay..
16:45:56 <PMadej> unfortunatelly too complicated for me :(
16:46:01 <andrewsw> I think I'm just lamenting how difficult this problem is.
16:46:49 <warlord> Right
16:47:33 <andrewsw> I assume I can't really on the "Action".
16:47:41 <andrewsw> s/really/rely
16:47:46 <warlord> no
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19:13:31 <andrewsw> am I right that txns don't have GUIDs? just splits and accounts?
19:14:22 <andrewsw> nm. there it is...
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20:41:03 <andrewsw> it occurs to me that the stock registers need to somehow hook into the pricedb so that a transaction in a stock register that happens to include (or even infer?) a price records that price in the pricedb. Many of the problems encountered in the advance portfolio report (and maybe elsewhere) could be mitigated by that. I'm not sure what, if any, downsides there are to this, but I think its all upside. just a thought for posterity.
20:41:33 <andrewsw> and of course I have no idea how (or if) this can be done.
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22:27:54 <warlord> andrewsw: you can always infer a pricedb entry from a transaction.
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23:38:13 <mydot2001> Hello
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