2007-09-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:43:25 <Nlex> what means 'meta-ask'??
05:43:25 <gncbot> Nlex: Sent 15 hours and 55 minutes ago: <warlord> See http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007/09/2007-09-20.html#T13:46:11
05:50:23 <cortana> "is it ok to ask a question in here?" is meta-asking
05:50:26 <cortana> that is, asking about asking ;)
05:58:16 <Nlex> thanks cortana
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06:50:29 <gjanssens> Hi, I have come across an uncomfortable behaviour when entering transactions in Gnucash 2.0.x (currently 2.0.5).
06:50:45 <gjanssens> The transfer account field uses autocompletion
06:51:12 <gjanssens> So when starting to enter Expenses, I type first 'Ex' and then ':'.
06:51:59 <gjanssens> Now Gnucash autocompletes to "Expenses:Adjustment" (the first expense account in my list).
06:53:37 <gjanssens> If I want Goods instead, I used to type (in 1.8.x) a 'g' and the first subaccount starting with a G would be selected. In 2.0.x I get instead "Expenses:Adjustmentg", so the subaccount is no longer replaced.
06:54:57 <gjanssens> This is annoying, because now I have to first delete the choses subaccount (entering backspace until the cursor is again just behind the ':'), and then enter the first character of the subaccount I really want.
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06:55:19 <gjanssens> I am working on Mandriva 2007 Spring, under Kde
07:04:36 <cortana> hm, i'm not seeing that here with 2.2.1 on debian
07:09:50 <andi5> yes, that has been fixed, but i cannot tell you what versions contain the fix... at least not right now
07:10:14 <andi5> please upgrade :)
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07:40:48 <Nlex> how can i work in the project?
07:41:36 <Nlex> i'm from portugal and i've noticed that gnucash is not completely translated
07:43:19 <Nlex> i'm not a progammer but i good at languanges :)
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08:01:12 <gjanssens> andi5: thanks. I will upgrade at the next opportunity
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08:14:01 <andi5> have fun
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09:04:36 <warlord> gjanssens: I've seen that problem in the transfer dialog on 2.0.x, but not in the register.
09:05:08 <warlord> Nlex: Of course you can help with translations! We'd love that help. And you don't need to "program", per se, to work on the translation.
09:05:22 <warlord> See the wiki for more information about help translating gnucash.
09:15:50 <gjanssens> warlord: today was the first time I had this annoyance in the register. Before I usually had this only when entering items on invoices or bills and even then not all of the time. The difference today with my usual way of working, is that I started gnucash remotely via an ssh session. Maybe Gnucash is more susceptible to it when used over a network. (It does seem like a timing issue somewhere). Anyway, Andi5 claims this issue is fixed in th
09:15:51 <gjanssens> won't have time to do that very soon though, but I'll report when I have done the tests.
09:25:29 <Nlex> warlord: ok, i've already been in the wiki to see how it works but paying enough atention
09:25:46 <Nlex> i've got to go back there
09:28:20 <warlord> gjanssens: your first message cut short: " is fixed in th". But yeah, gnucash over remote-X-via-SSH seems to have LOTS of issues.
09:28:33 <Nlex> i've also folowed your link yesterday to see your tips on the reconciliation
09:28:36 <warlord> Nlex: yep. wiki.gnucash.org/Translation (IIRC)
09:28:53 <warlord> Yeah.. Didn't want you to go away with the wrong impression/ideas.
09:31:29 <Nlex> ok
09:31:48 <Nlex> talking about the same issue again
09:34:22 <Nlex> why don't the accounts get reconciliated at the same time, being this software a doble-entry accounting sistem?
09:34:52 <gjanssens> warlord: here is the full sentence: "Anyway, Andi5 claims this issue is fixed in the latest release, so I will first try that one. I won't have time to do that very soon though, but I'll report when I have done the tests." Are these SSH problems Gnucash specific, or rather Gtk issues in general ?
09:36:28 <Nlex> i allways have to reconciliate all the accounts, and working that way i have doble work doing it!
09:39:40 <warlord> Nlex: do you understand what "reconcile" means? Just because you got your "Bank" statement doesn't mean you got your "Credit Card" statement.
09:40:10 <warlord> Reconciling is balancing a gnucash account against the real-world-account it represents.
09:40:41 <warlord> gjanssens: I *suspect* Gtk in general, but I dont know.
09:41:38 <gjanssens> Ok, thanks
09:47:16 <Nlex> warlord: yes, i understand what it means the reconcilie, but the question is not only about it, that action of reconciliate.
09:48:42 <Nlex> The same happens if it's only to confirme! When i confirm a credit account the debit account doesn't get confirmed!
09:50:43 <Nlex> When i regist a movement in any account there's allways other account refering to that movement
09:50:47 <warlord> Nlex: of course not, because there is a time-lag between when the monies are posted to the account. For example, when you write a check to pay your credit card, it's quite possible that the monies get posted to your CC account before they get taken out of your checking account.
09:51:04 <Nlex> one for the debit and another for the credit
09:51:15 <warlord> Nlex: yes, I understand that.
09:52:09 <Nlex> and that movement appears on both accounts
09:52:38 <warlord> Yes, but not at the same time.
09:52:53 <warlord> remember, gnucash is just a MODEL of what happens in real life.
09:53:00 <warlord> in real life there are delays.
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09:54:46 <Nlex> that's not the point! if i want to confirm or reconcilie any movement i allways have to do it twice! once in the credit account and another in the debit account!
09:56:50 <warlord> It's exactly the point.
09:57:06 <warlord> Yes, you have to do it twice, because you're not reconciling a transaction, you're reconciling AN ACCOUNT.
09:57:20 <warlord> It's like "balancing your checkbook" at the end of the month.
09:57:40 <warlord> You get your bank statement and make sure that all the transactions on the statement match what's in gnucash..
09:58:10 <warlord> But just because you got your BANK account statement doesn't mean you got the statement from the OTHER account(s), too.. So when you get THOSE statements, you can reconcile THOSE accounts..
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09:58:17 <warlord> And you never need to reconcile income/expense account.
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10:01:59 <warlord> so, yes, you need to do it twice.. because you get two statements.. one for each account.
10:02:30 <Nlex> hmm, right... i'd rather reconcilie transactions instead of reconcilie accounts :)
10:02:59 <warlord> Well, reconciliation only makes sense for accounts.
10:03:44 <Nlex> a transaction is a movement between to or more accounts
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10:04:42 <Nlex> if you reconcilie a trasanctio you're reconciling to or more accounts, right?
10:05:03 <warlord> there is no such thing as "reconciling a transaction"
10:05:23 <warlord> You reconcile accounts.
10:05:36 <Nlex> am i allowed to refer another freeware accountig sistem?
10:06:30 <warlord> Depends why ;) If you're just going to say "well, FOO does it, why doesn't gnucash?" then no.
10:06:59 <Nlex> ok
10:07:10 <Nlex> :)
10:08:49 <Nlex> so let's not call it "recociling a transaction" but call it "recociling accounts using a transaction"
10:09:35 <warlord> That makes no sense.
10:09:43 <Nlex> ???
10:10:06 <warlord> Reconciliation is the process of comparing gnucash to your paper statement. You dont get paper statements for "transactions"
10:10:32 <warlord> What does it mean to "reconcile an account USING a transaction"?? That makes no sense.
10:11:54 <Nlex> it means that you get a transaction and when you reconcilie the debit account the credit account get also reconcilied
10:12:23 <Nlex> but let's talk about confirm account
10:13:15 <Nlex> itīs the same thing. confirm the debit account and the credit account get also confirmed.
10:13:40 <warlord> Again.... The two sides don't clear at the same time!
10:14:20 <Nlex> and that happens in real life, when you go shopping and you pay with your money pocket
10:15:37 <warlord> "shopping" doesn't matter -- See above where you dont need to clear/reconcile income/expense accounts.
10:15:56 <warlord> You only need to reconcile Assets and Liabilities
10:16:10 <warlord> Because, those are the only accounts that send you statements.
10:16:30 <warlord> Your grocery store doesn't send you a monthly statement... So there's no reason to reconcile Expenses:Groceries
10:16:38 <Nlex> i ALLWAYS need to clear or reconcilie every movements!
10:17:24 <Nlex> Got to go
10:17:34 <Nlex> i'll talk soon
10:17:35 <warlord> Why do you think you need to do that?
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10:56:52 <Simon> it would be nice if I could still reconcile even if the balance doesn't change (e.g. Liabilities:PayPal)
10:57:04 <Simon> (it doesn't auto-check the cleared transactions)
10:59:33 <warlord> Simon: what do you mean, "reconcile even if the balance doesn't change"?
11:00:40 <Simon> if I buy something on ebay, that's a transaction from cc->paypal, paypal->expenses - when I go to reconcile the two cleared transactions aren't selected because the balance is already at the reconcile balance
11:04:17 <warlord> That's not why the transactions aren't selected. They're not auto-selected either because a) they're not marked 'cleared' in the register, or b) they occur after the reconcile date.
11:05:02 <Simon> they are cleared
11:08:12 <cortana> there is a preference to enable whether cleared transactions are automatically ticked when reconciling
11:08:58 <Simon> yes and it's enabled
11:09:53 <warlord> So what's in the 'R' column in the register for those particular transactions? What are the txn dates? And what is your reconcile date?
11:09:59 <Simon> the reconcile date was wrong
11:10:05 <Simon> it was back in april for some reason
11:13:41 <warlord> There ya go.
11:15:35 <Simon> I could do with transactions that have two dates ;)
11:15:38 * Simon reads changelog
11:15:47 <warlord> heh
11:16:29 <Simon> if I do a BACS transfer between two of my accounts, that takes 3 days
11:19:13 <warlord> well, you could use an intermediary account for that.
11:19:28 <Simon> but that would be silly
11:19:45 <warlord> no sillier than putting two dates onto a transaction..
11:20:09 <cortana> call it Assets:BanksAreBastards
11:21:11 <Jaran> hehe, did something similar actually :P
11:22:23 <cortana> still, i guess the money they make with the funds tied up for 3 days allows them to give me a higher interest rate by about 0.000001%
11:22:25 <cortana> so that's allright hten.
11:22:38 <warlord> heh
11:24:29 <Jaran> actually they work in my favour sometimes, buying some funds i first got them but they didn't charge me until 3 days after :P
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12:06:59 <Nlex> warlord:i'm using gnucash to run a my personal finance and that's ok
12:07:35 <Nlex> but i'm going to start using it to run a small business
12:08:09 <warlord> yeah... and....? I've been using it for my business since... 2002?
12:08:22 <warlord> Why do you think you need this "feature"?
12:08:31 <Nlex> even being a small business the accounts are going to be checked for at least 3 personns
12:08:43 <Nlex> plus the accounter!
12:09:11 <warlord> Nlex: /which/ accounts are being checked?
12:09:40 <warlord> in fact, the fact that they're being checked is even MORE reason NOT to clear both sides of transactions; you really want to make sure the money went into the correct account!
12:09:57 <warlord> (or came from the right account)
12:10:01 <Nlex> i need this feature to save time
12:10:49 <warlord> But it's wrong.
12:10:54 <warlord> It doesn't double-check you!
12:11:39 <warlord> One point of reconciliation is to check for mistakes.. If it automatically marked the other side, you'd lose that opportunity.
12:11:50 <Nlex> what's wrong? want to save time?
12:12:54 <warlord> No, saving time is a good thing, but reconciling part of a transaction that's not in the account that you're currenctly reconciling is wrong.
12:13:15 <Nlex> how is that?
12:13:30 <warlord> I dont have time to go into this YET AGAIN.
12:13:33 <warlord> Go read the docs.
12:13:40 <warlord> I'll be back in about 5 hours
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12:13:52 <Nlex> i've already donne it
12:17:29 <Nlex> ok. not possible to do right?
12:30:29 <Nlex> something like that: a check mark
12:31:50 <Nlex> if you to reconcilie both sides of a trnsaction you check it, you you dont't want it you leave it blank
12:32:11 <Simon> you don't understand what reconciliation is
12:33:45 <Nlex> you don't understand what saving time is!
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16:25:15 <mjchang> I know that someone is working on fixing advanced-portfolio but i figure i would give it shot - what is the difference between xaccGetSplitAmount and xaccGetSplitValue? does it depend on the type of split account?
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16:43:43 <tuv> the latest debian gnucash package doesn
16:43:55 <tuv> the latest debian gnucash package doesn't have an icon. where can i find one?
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16:53:13 <Simon> http://redrum.lp0.eu/tmp/gnucash-icon.png
16:53:33 <Simon> iirc that's not the latest version of it
17:00:10 <tuv> Simon, isn't there an official icon on the official website?
17:00:35 <Simon> probably
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17:05:42 <mjchang> tuv: try http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/pixmaps for icons
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18:11:32 <tuv> mjchang, thanks.. that did it
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18:14:08 <warlord> mjchang: the 'amount' is the count iin the split->account commodity. the 'value' is the count in the split->parent(txn)->common_currency currency.
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18:43:58 <mjchang> warlord: okay so i'm trying to map what you wrote to what I see in say a purchase in a stock account. is there some documentation on the split structure and how it relates to the front end (or some specific source files which would shed some light?)
18:46:12 <warlord> Split.c
18:46:15 <warlord> and .h
18:46:19 <warlord> Transaction.*
18:46:29 <warlord> and http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/
18:48:15 <mjchang> okay that gives me stuff to read ;-) thanks.
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