2007-09-19 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:10:31 <R0lf> Hi
11:10:56 <R0lf> Is it possible to define an account to be tax relevant for more than one aspect
11:11:17 <R0lf> IOW, most income accounts for a merchant are relevant for sales and income tax
11:11:31 <R0lf> This might be specific to Germany, but I don't think so
11:11:38 <R0lf> How do I deal with this?
11:14:11 <warlord> I.... dont know if you can.
11:22:44 <R0lf> wow, if warlord does not know who does?
11:22:51 <R0lf> Nobody else ever needed this?
11:23:06 * R0lf thinks gnucash really has not been used up to its full potential
11:26:57 <warlord> R0lf: well, fix it
11:27:21 <R0lf> you should know that I am doing that as best as I can
11:27:44 <R0lf> But I am still in the very early stages of understanding how gnucash works
11:27:55 <R0lf> I am trying to use it for business purposes
11:27:55 <warlord> aren't we all. ;)
11:28:30 <R0lf> At first I thought I was the first and so far only person to seriously attempt this in a German context.
11:28:48 <warlord> Well, I certainly haven't tried using it in a german context ;)
11:28:53 <R0lf> Now my impression is that there are virtually no or really no other business users out there.
11:29:06 <R0lf> Hence my comment
11:29:37 <R0lf> It makes me sad to see that gnucash - having the potential - so far has not been able to make greater inroads
11:29:55 <R0lf> I don't mean to belittle what has been achieved,not to be misunderstood
11:31:03 <warlord> Well, we have two german developers. Three if we include you.
11:31:05 <R0lf> warlord: If I may ask, what do you use gnucash for?
11:31:09 <warlord> My business...
11:31:11 <warlord> In the USA
11:31:15 <R0lf> REally?
11:31:19 <warlord> and for my personal accounting
11:31:21 <warlord> Oh yes, really.
11:31:26 <R0lf> For keeping a tab on orders and payments?
11:31:28 <warlord> That's why I wrote the business features.. For me.
11:31:42 <R0lf> yes, I understand
11:31:55 <R0lf> And I understand your stanza on "send patches" ;-)
11:31:58 <warlord> Well, my business is consulting.. So there are no "orders". But to keep track of my invoices to my customers and the payments I get from them.
11:32:00 <R0lf> which I did ;-)
11:32:10 <R0lf> Oh, that is great
11:32:23 <R0lf> I also am more of a freelancer/consultant type of person
11:32:38 <R0lf> but I don't usually refer to myself as a consultant
11:33:09 <R0lf> I had thought the gnucash business stuff was more geared towards a merchant with real goods, not the services industry.
11:33:29 <warlord> Um, nope!
11:33:32 <R0lf> warlord: Did you ever document at least a little bit of what you implemented and how it works?
11:33:36 <warlord> But I tried to make it general
11:33:51 <R0lf> Or is it just the code?
11:34:09 <R0lf> In the latter case, I think I will have a few questions for you ;-)
11:34:21 <warlord> There's a design document somewhere, and a bunch of emails in the archives from 2001.. And the code.
11:34:22 <R0lf> Otherwise, I will read up on my own.
11:34:33 <R0lf> somewhere?
11:34:41 <R0lf> That is not too precise.
11:35:58 <warlord> well, it's been 6 years; I haven't followed where it's living now.
11:36:03 <warlord> And the code IS well-documented. :-D
11:38:21 <R0lf> OK, so what files are actually relevant?
11:38:41 <warlord> Relevant to what?
11:38:50 <R0lf> to business
11:38:57 <R0lf> We are talking about business
11:39:02 <R0lf> src/business?
11:39:09 <R0lf> That is all your stuff?
11:39:12 <R0lf> *your*
11:39:28 <R0lf> but there is also src /tax
11:39:38 <R0lf> where should I start?
11:40:14 <R0lf> Do you think any documentation ever made it into the wiki?
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11:43:46 <warlord> I only touched src/business
11:43:52 <warlord> I never touched any tax stuff at all.
11:51:17 <R0lf> $ find src/business/|wc -l
11:51:23 <R0lf> 1131
11:51:33 <R0lf> Sorry, but that is a bit much too read :-(
11:51:39 <R0lf> Sorry, but that is a bit much to read :-(
11:52:06 * R0lf needs a more concise intro
11:57:05 <warlord> Well, ask a specific question
11:59:17 <R0lf> How and where do I start to use gnucash for my business?
11:59:29 <R0lf> What do I need to configure before the first use?
11:59:51 <warlord> Umm.. Customers, Vendors, Tax Tables, Terms.
11:59:59 <warlord> File -> Properties to set your company name.
12:00:04 <R0lf> did that
12:00:06 <warlord> Other than that... nothing.
12:00:07 <warlord> That's it.
12:00:17 <R0lf> only the file -> properties
12:02:36 <R0lf> BTW, what I learn and the steps I took will be public at http://linuxwiki.de/GnuCash/EuerGc
12:02:49 <warlord> R0lf: please put it in wiki.gnucash.org ?
12:02:54 <R0lf> It seems like the german gnucash wiki will move from wiki.gnucash.org
12:03:00 <R0lf> It seems like the german gnucash wiki will move to wiki.gnucash.org
12:03:04 <warlord> from?? ... Ah, yes.
12:03:09 <warlord> I knew that. :)
12:03:13 <R0lf> Once that is final, I will move over, too
12:03:31 <R0lf> When I started the page linuxwiki.de was still the German reference
12:03:43 <R0lf> reference for gnucash
12:04:11 <R0lf> Writing this page in English in an English wiki did not seem so optimal
12:04:51 <R0lf> warlord: What the hell do you expect in "business - tax table"?
12:05:20 <R0lf> I use the German locale to get some additions by cstim which are only present when gnucash runs under a German locale
12:05:31 <R0lf> so the menu titles might not be 100% accurate.
12:05:46 <warlord> For each tax-table you supply a set of accounts and "tax amounts"..
12:06:02 <warlord> E.g., 6% to Acct1, 5% to Acct2, etc.
12:06:56 <R0lf> IOW, if the sales tax is 19%, I define 19% for all accounts where I need to pay sales tax?
12:07:09 <warlord> no no no no no..
12:07:13 <R0lf> Is that based on net or brutto prices?
12:07:22 <R0lf> Oh, no?
12:07:26 <warlord> The Account is the account where the tax gets stored/held.
12:07:34 <R0lf> Ah, OK
12:07:41 <warlord> usually either an Expense account, and an Asset/Liability
12:07:54 <R0lf> Could that infrormation be stored in the SKR04 template?
12:08:00 <R0lf> I assume, yes.
12:08:19 <warlord> Nope.
12:08:36 <R0lf> Not?
12:08:45 <R0lf> Well, it would be nice if that was possible.
12:08:55 <R0lf> SKR is a standard account template
12:08:56 <warlord> There's no way to pre-load any business objects.
12:09:12 <warlord> The business objects (including tax tables) are not part of the "accounts"
12:09:18 * R0lf sees an RFE coming ;-)
12:09:19 <warlord> they live along-side the accounts.
12:09:28 <warlord> It'll be ignored unless it comes with a patch
12:09:41 <R0lf> right
12:12:03 <warlord> Honestly, the RIGHT approach here is to change the way gnucash works so that it requires you to run through a small startup druid to create a new file and in that druid you can load various initial settings like Business Terms and locale-specific Tax Tables and such..
12:12:32 <R0lf> yes, I agree
12:12:48 <R0lf> My approach for the time being is to write stuff up as I go
12:12:57 <R0lf> That way at least others can follow
12:13:19 <R0lf> And it might serve as a template for the druid as well (if there ever will be such a thing)
12:13:52 * R0lf prays for a way to access accounts by account number
12:15:39 <warlord> We'll probably need such a thing for SQLite so we can also ask the user for a Filename as part of the "New File" generation.
12:16:16 <R0lf> yes, I saw some commits on sqlite
12:16:21 <R0lf> That made me very happy
12:16:40 <R0lf> I don't know too much about sql but certainly more than xml
12:16:55 <R0lf> And it is more widespread so there are more tools and people that can help
12:17:14 <R0lf> I am still struggling with xsh as a "xml query tool"
12:18:53 <warlord> hahaha
12:19:06 <R0lf> that is NOOOOTTTTTT funny
12:19:10 <R0lf> not at all
12:19:12 <R0lf> believe me
12:20:19 <warlord> hahaha... Why are you trying to use xsh?
12:21:18 <R0lf> do you have a different suggestion?
12:21:27 <R0lf> I've been through a couple of tools, now
12:22:04 <R0lf> I am looking for an xml query tool to ask such questions as "give me the names of all accounts marked as tax relevant in the SKR04 template"
12:24:27 <warlord> Hmm.. I guess there isn't a "Find Account" UI...
12:25:32 <R0lf> nope, there is not
12:25:43 <warlord> It would be fairly easy to implement one!
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12:26:14 <warlord> Just need to add a menu item with a call to gnc_gnome_search_new() with the appropriate settings.
12:26:50 <warlord> Take a look at dialog-invoice.c for an example.
12:34:47 <R0lf> warlord: I will open a few bugs with suggestions where I think an improvement is possible.
12:34:53 <warlord> Um ok.
12:35:01 <R0lf> This is only to make sure that they are not forgotten
12:35:14 <R0lf> I don't expect anyone to fix them
12:36:45 <warlord> ok
12:37:21 <warlord> BIAB
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12:37:48 <R0lf> Oh no
12:37:57 <R0lf> bugzilla is borked again
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12:45:55 <R0lf> warlord-afk: Are you still laughing about me messing with xsh?
12:46:08 <R0lf> I'd be desperately interested in a working solution
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13:36:33 <warlord> R0lf: yes, I'm still laughing about messing with xsh -- i think you'd be better off writing the Account_Search dialog
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14:10:12 <R0lf> I am not a programmer
14:10:32 <R0lf> I have *NO* idea how gnucash works on the inside
14:10:53 <R0lf> If I were able to do it in one day of work, you'd have it ready in <5 minutes
14:14:13 <warlord> Well, always a time to start ;)
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14:54:00 <R0lf> yes, in the next life
14:54:36 <warlord> Hehehehe....
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15:22:27 <jeeger> Hey, is it normal that I don't get the "Simple Checkbook" account template with a german locale?
15:24:50 <warlord> jeeger: If that example-account isn't translated, then yes.
15:25:51 <jeeger> Damn. There is only something like "General accounts", and that are more than 20 different accounts I don't need.
15:30:02 <warlord> sorry.
15:31:47 <jeeger> Yeah, I'll have to setup my accounts myself... Maybe that'll help me to understand this stuff^^
15:33:01 <warlord> Or you can run in C locale for now
15:33:42 <warlord> .. just to load the English account hierarchy
15:37:36 <jeeger> Yeah, but then I got confused with all the names and translations. I'm just starting this... Anyway, I seem to have gotten it by now^^
15:43:31 <warlord> Eh? The "simple checkbook" has only 5 accounts total..
15:45:12 <jeeger> I finished my accounts now, so it doesn't matter. I was just wondering, that's all.
15:45:26 <warlord> Send mail to gnucash-de and ask?
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18:06:18 <R0lf> GC does support postgres?
18:06:23 <R0lf> Or did in the past?
18:06:31 <R0lf> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125281
18:08:52 <warlord> it did, yes.
18:08:57 <warlord> but never for the business features.
18:09:04 <warlord> The last version that fully supported PG was 1.6
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22:52:24 <dwhsix> so it seems like building 2.2.1 on ubuntu/debian is blocked because of some guile/slib problem? (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347922)
22:52:33 <dwhsix> which version can I build? anyone know?
22:52:54 <dwhsix> ubuntu only includes gnucash 2.0.5, I'd like to use a more current version
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