2007-08-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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08:50:59 <viks> hi, can you tell me how to install gnucash 2.2.0 in fedora 7? i am new to linux?
08:51:58 <viks> hello anybody ???
08:52:16 <chris> viks, you can either wait for someone to build an rpm, or you can build from source.
08:52:37 <viks> hi chris, how it is done?
08:53:06 <viks> i have downloaded tar.gz file
08:53:23 <jsled> viks: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building
08:53:58 <jsled> viks: but you might want to wait until it's available as a package. Building gnucash can be ... involved.
08:53:59 <chris> building from source is not typically something a newbie would want to do.
08:54:57 <viks> i have already configured and run make and make install commands, what next?
08:55:13 <chris> viks: why not just use the version that is packaged for F7?
08:55:25 <viks> like?
08:55:58 <chris> actually, I see that 2.2.0 *is* packaged for F7!
08:56:14 <chris> viks: so, really, `yum install gnucash` and you're done.
08:56:16 <viks> what do i do, chris?
08:56:33 <viks> from which directory
08:56:45 <chris> viks: as root, from any directory.
08:56:50 <jsled> viks: And maybe generally <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/yum/en/>.
08:57:29 <viks> i run the command, it's showing, parsing package install arguments
08:57:51 <chris> viks: patience.
08:58:17 <viks> it's inflating something
08:58:25 <viks> asking me the file size
08:58:41 <chris> viks: say 'y'
08:59:08 <viks> done, it it now downloading something
08:59:31 <viks> is it connected and downloading from the gnucash server?
08:59:58 <chris> no, it's downloading packaged from some fedora mirror.
09:00:58 <viks> you mean to say that, i have downloaded from the gnucash server, the source code and now yum utility is downloading something from fedora server?
09:00:59 <jsled> viks: in short, we release "raw" sources, and distros build them into packages. So, you're getting gnucash from Fedora, not from us.
09:01:19 <jsled> viks: You never needed to download the sources.
09:02:09 <chris> viks: In general, it's best/easiest to use the packages fedora provides - that's why you use a distro.
09:02:33 <viks> @jsled i didn't got you ? then what was the stuff i downloaded from www.gnucash.org, a 9.6mb compressed file?
09:02:33 <gncbot> viks: Error: "jsled" is not a valid command.
09:02:51 <jsled> viks: it sounds like you downloaded the sources.
09:03:39 <viks> i didn't got you, what i have downloaded then? from www.gnucash.org? a 9.6mb compressed file?
09:03:53 <chris> viks: unless you have extremely unusual needs, you will never need to download source for any software.
09:04:15 <jsled> viks: you said you downloaded a .tar.gz file. I'm not 100% sure of the file size, but I bet it's the sources that we released.
09:04:48 <chris> viks: don't you have a "Applications -> Add/Remove software" button?
09:04:52 <jsled> But as chris said, you almost never obtain software from the author's released sources, but instead from your distribution's package management system/repository.
09:05:05 <viks> you mean to say that, there was no need for me to go to www.gnucash.org? instead i could have just used the yum command?
09:05:10 <jsled> exactly.
09:05:44 <viks> then, what was all that? ./configure,make and make install ?
09:05:56 <jsled> something you now know you didn't need to do. :)
09:06:05 <viks> cool
09:06:19 <viks> i was feeling like i am compiling something?
09:06:46 <chris> viks: you did.
09:07:00 <jsled> The `make` command specifically will compile the software. It should have taken about 10-30 minutes...?
09:07:15 <viks> no, only a few seconds
09:07:40 <jsled> Oh; then it probably failed, actually.
09:07:48 <jsled> But, no need to worry about that.
09:07:48 <viks> if i did compile the s/w, why didn't it got installed?
09:09:02 <chris> viks: don't you have a "Applications -> Add/Remove software" button?
09:09:20 <viks> you mean to say that, if i need to install any kind of software on my desktop, i have to just use the yum utility and connect it to the internet?
09:09:24 <viks> yes i do have
09:09:49 <chris> viks: use that tool to get any kind of software.
09:11:52 <viks> and how will i get to know, if a particular software i want is available or not, although it shows the list
09:13:37 <chris> if it's on the "installed" list, it's installed; if it's on the "available" list, you can install it.
09:14:58 <viks> ok. i can get any of the software which is available on the distro site, and not other than that?
09:16:28 <viks> thanks a lot buddies, i got the software installed
09:16:58 <chris> viks: you can install other software, too. It's just not as easy.
09:17:37 <viks> tell me one more thing, i have installed the latest jre and enabled it in mozilla, as it was written in instructions. but still i cant see some site contents
09:18:18 <chris> viks: you'll have to move to freenode's #fedora for that.
09:18:33 <viks> how to move there?
09:18:39 <viks> i use xchat
09:19:08 <chris> probably similarly to however you got here.
09:19:22 <viks> i have to just enter fedora in channel field or i have to enter freenode's fedora?
09:21:13 <viks> hello
09:22:06 <chris> viks: just experiment, you can figure it out.
09:29:35 <viks> i tried buddy, in #fedora channel there is only 1 user
09:29:50 <viks> that to myself
09:29:58 <viks> whom to talk then
09:30:20 <chris> viks: you need to switch from GimpNet to Freenode
09:31:03 <viks> thanks for the clue buddy
09:31:05 <chris> viks: honestly, most newbies just post to some online forum.
09:31:31 <viks> is that bad
09:31:45 <chris> viks: no, it's not bad. It seems to work.
09:31:54 <viks> thanks buddy
09:32:01 <viks> bye for now
09:32:03 <chris> it's probably a bit easier to handle than irc.
09:32:05 <chris> bye
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09:50:41 <warlord> Wow!
09:50:58 <warlord> chris, you and jsled had a lot of patience!
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10:14:15 <warlord> I think we should really disable the Close Books functionality before 2.0.1
10:14:20 <warlord> (it's pretty broken)
10:14:39 <jsled> I believe I did.
10:15:44 <jsled> yeah, r16327.
10:16:03 <jsled> or, r16331 for trunk.
10:16:11 <jsled> (that was while we still had the branch.)
10:20:49 <warlord> Okay, great.
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11:13:49 <esteban> jsled: oh, btw, the older slib version worked... I now have gnucash working including aqbanking stuff so it grabs my CC transactions
11:14:39 <jsled> esteban: ah, great! What distro was this, again?
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11:15:55 <esteban> slackware 10.2 (hopefully I'll be able to upgrade one of these days)
11:15:56 <Linuturk> yay
11:16:01 <Linuturk> jsled: hi ;p
11:16:16 <jsled> esteban: I hope so too. :)
11:16:29 <Linuturk> ok jsled, same question
11:16:30 <Linuturk> ;p
11:16:39 <jsled> (especially if by "upgrade" you mean "upgrade distro" ;)
11:16:52 <jsled> That'd be:
11:16:53 <jsled> <Linuturk> could anyone help me understand the role of Equity in my finances?
11:17:01 <cortilap> more slack users! :)
11:17:27 <jsled> Linuturk: have you read http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/basics-accounting1.html
11:17:28 <jsled> ?
11:17:35 <Linuturk> yes jsled
11:17:49 <Linuturk> my Equity hasn't changed since I began using the program
11:17:53 <jsled> Ah, right.
11:18:04 <Linuturk> and is in a constant negative
11:18:19 <Linuturk> I have a feeling I'm "not doing it right"
11:18:20 <jsled> So, there's the Equity *account*, then there's instantaneous Equity.
11:18:36 <jsled> The former doesn't change ... the later is provided by running a report.
11:19:02 <esteban> although I think it's thinking these two transactions are duplicates which is causing problems... I made two transactions of the same amount at the same place in the same day
11:19:18 <Linuturk> and is not to be confused with the Equity in a home, correct?
11:20:16 <warlord> esteban: the QIF importer would probably think they are the same.
11:20:31 <warlord> Linuturk: well, Equity in a home is the same thing, actually.
11:21:43 <Linuturk> let me give you a run down of my account listings, and the procedures I follow, and then maybe we can see what kind of things I'm doing wrong/correct
11:22:25 <jsled> Linuturk: pastebin might be useful, if you have a bunch of lines.
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11:22:37 <Linuturk> right, i'm trying to prep that now
11:22:41 <jsled> :)
11:22:50 <Linuturk> anyway to export the account listing to plain text?
11:23:16 <jsled> Not really. File > Export > Export Accounts | xslt ${would_need_to_write} -
11:25:37 <warlord> Linuturk: it really doesn't matter what your account tree looks like. The fact remains that your Equity accounts show a SNAPSHOT of your equity. For a running equity total you need to run the Balance Sheet report.
11:25:47 <Linuturk> http://pastebin.ca/657020
11:26:16 <Linuturk> well, I'm also trying to get a grasp on whether or not I have it organized correctly
11:26:36 <Linuturk> and, if I"m following the correct procedures when adding transactions
11:27:30 <jsled> yeah, that looks right. And similar to the predefined account strucutures.
11:27:49 <Linuturk> right, I tried to follow the how-to as much as I thought practical
11:28:14 <Linuturk> just, my equity shows -115K
11:28:40 <Linuturk> mostly due to the mortgage I just added today
11:28:43 <Linuturk> I suppose
11:29:17 <warlord> Probably! A loan will reduce your equity. But run a Balance Sheet and see your total running equity.
11:30:26 <Linuturk> ok, now I'm confused
11:30:40 <Linuturk> what is "retained losses" ?
11:31:25 <Linuturk> and, the final item "Total Liabilities & Equity" just shows the total of my Assets
11:31:52 <warlord> Yes....
11:31:52 <Linuturk> not some large, negative offset of Assets - Liability
11:32:04 <warlord> There's a "Total Equity" line in there.
11:32:19 <Linuturk> right, that seems correct I suppose
11:32:38 <Linuturk> so, my current net worth is -115K ?
11:32:49 <warlord> Is that what the balance sheet says?
11:33:09 <jsled> If A - L = E, then Total Liabilites & Equity = L + E = A
11:33:29 <Linuturk> yes warlord
11:34:04 <Linuturk> AH, I see now jsled (at least, I understand the balance sheet
11:34:07 <Linuturk> )
11:34:54 <Linuturk> so, my equity account will never change unless I add a liabilty with an opening balance
11:35:12 <Linuturk> arg
11:35:19 <Linuturk> ok, let me try some more here
11:35:28 <warlord> Or ifyou manually zero out your income and expense accounts.
11:35:41 <Linuturk> If I had my home paid off, that becomes an asset
11:35:51 <Linuturk> and my equity would spike
11:36:03 <Linuturk> same with a vehicle?
11:36:59 <Linuturk> and would I just add that entry under assets, and then pull depreciation off those items?
11:37:18 <Linuturk> and that depreciation would go to an expense account . . . ?
11:38:24 <Linuturk> or am I way off here?
11:38:32 <warlord> Well, your home is an asset, but the loan is a liability.. Once the liability is paid off, you're left with just the asset.
11:39:04 <Linuturk> ah, so I need to add my vehicle and home to my assets
11:39:12 <Linuturk> at their current market value?
11:39:27 <Linuturk> or should I use replacement cost?
11:40:28 <warlord> Well, normally it would be purchase price.
11:41:01 <Linuturk> well, that would balance out the Equity account completely, right?
11:41:26 <jsled> Depends on how much you needed to borrow, I suppose.
11:41:33 <warlord> The home-purchase txn is explained in the docs.
11:43:33 <warlord> It's usually a split between Cash, Asset:Home, and Liability -- and maybe some expenses.
11:43:36 <Linuturk> well, adding those two asset have dramatically affected my Balance Sheet
11:45:57 <Linuturk> so, my opening balance on an Asset would be the purchase price
11:46:13 <Linuturk> and then take off depreciation to make it realistic current market value?
11:47:08 <warlord> well, the opening balance would be the purchase price OR the "depreciated value" at the start of your books.
11:47:17 <warlord> You really should talk to an accountant.
11:49:09 <Linuturk> I really don't think that's necessary. I just need a better understanding of the underlying concepts
11:49:30 <Linuturk> I was hoping to expand that in here, but I guess I'll need to go somewhere else
11:52:12 <warlord> Well, first you should read the Tutorial and Concepts guide from cover to cover.. It really does cover most of this.
11:57:01 <Linuturk> I admit I haven't read it all, but I have read a good portion. I guess I'll just dig deeper into that
11:57:48 <warlord> I highly recommend it.
11:58:17 <Linuturk> is there a method for printing out a copy of that?
11:58:39 <Linuturk> w/o printing each page individually?
11:58:56 <Linuturk> well, each topic individually?
11:59:23 <warlord> Um, I believe someone built a PDF somewhere.
11:59:42 <jsled> yeah, there's a PDF of the 1.8 version at <http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v1.8/C/gnucash-guide.pdf>. It's basically the same.
11:59:50 <jsled> Especially for conceptual stuff.
12:00:16 <Linuturk> k
12:03:27 <warlord> jsled: I know you added makefile rules to build a pdf.. did you add comments about what else needs to get done?
12:04:47 <jsled> yeah. http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash-docs/trunk/guide/C/Makefile.am#L31
12:05:25 <jsled> It basically emits a PDF with the content. But zero formatting.
12:07:12 <warlord> Hmm, I remember something on the list that had more commands to fix the formatting. Maybe I'll look into that.
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13:30:06 <Linuturk> jsled: I just printed a PDF using cups-pdf on Ubuntu feisty. GnuCash 2.0.5. Want me to upload?
13:30:32 <jsled> Sure.
13:31:44 <Linuturk> I'm copying it over to my web server
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13:39:40 <Linuturk> jsled: http://hiigara.onitato.com/
13:41:31 <jsled> Linuturk: 403
13:42:44 <Linuturk> http://hiigara.onitato.com/_GnuCash_Tutorial_and_Concepts_Guide_.pdf << try that
13:42:54 <jsled> yeah. That url is 403.
13:43:55 <Linuturk> lol
13:44:00 <Linuturk> I forgot to chmod it
13:44:01 <Linuturk> sorry
13:44:05 <Linuturk> try again
13:44:36 <jsled> Linuturk: d/l'ing.
13:44:46 <Linuturk> :)
13:47:18 <jsled> So, this is from Firefox or something?
13:47:24 <Linuturk> I didn't check formatting past the first few pages
13:47:31 <jsled> Or from yelp?
13:47:39 <Linuturk> and, now, the default help file viewer in Ubuntu
13:47:44 <Linuturk> no*
13:48:02 <Linuturk> yeah
13:48:04 <Linuturk> yelp
13:48:13 <Linuturk> didn't know that was its name
13:49:35 <Linuturk> I just went to File > Print Document
13:49:41 <Linuturk> and printed to the cups-pdf
13:49:44 <Linuturk> printer
13:50:18 <Linuturk> let me know when you remove it
13:50:25 <Linuturk> er
13:50:28 <Linuturk> when you are finished
13:50:32 <Linuturk> so I can remove it
13:51:13 <jsled> Linuturk: done.
13:52:04 <Linuturk> cool
13:52:05 <Linuturk> enjoy
13:52:20 <Linuturk> as much as you can enjoy documentation, anyway
13:52:25 <jsled> heh
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17:22:38 <andi5> chris: thanks :-)
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17:57:43 <chris> andi5: np, have fun.
17:57:54 <andi5> :)
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18:16:10 <andi5> chris: what is the reasoning for http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/branches/register-rewrite/src/gnome-utils/gnc-tree-view-transaction.c#L1102 ? what should guarantee us that splits are bound to accounts (read: what about a blank one)?
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18:46:49 <chris> andi5: um, I don't know.
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18:48:00 <andi5> i removed the assertion and it still seems to work... another thing i wonder about is whether splits of the same accounts are merged at the moment
18:49:10 <chris> I don't think so, are they?
18:50:13 <andi5> no... but maybe i am just too tired to see that this is standard behavior :)
18:51:12 <chris> does the old register do that anytime?
18:51:45 <chris> I don't think so.
18:53:28 <andi5> seems like there are still some nice bugs in the code :) ... that is always good =)
18:53:30 <chris> IIRC, there is a subtle difference in the the way the a credit is interpreted if there's already a debit value.
18:54:04 <chris> the old register would enter the difference, while the new register just enters whatever you least typed.
18:54:10 <chris> *last
18:54:50 <andi5> ok
18:54:51 <chris> andi5: I think that maybe at one time, the blank split was added to the anchor account.
18:55:29 <chris> see gnc-tree-model-transaction.c:1025 "This is maybe a BadIdea."
18:55:42 <andi5> ah, i see
18:55:57 <chris> so, maybe that assertion is just old.
18:56:10 <andi5> thanks for this info.... i will occasionally take a look at the code here and then, maybe it helps
18:57:41 <andi5> see you soon =)
18:57:45 <chris> see you
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