2007-07-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:39:07 <warlord> @tell blahdeblah http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-07-23.html#T20:44:42
11:39:07 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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14:41:12 <deepthink> Hi all. I managed to close the account tab and now I can't get it back!
14:42:05 <deepthink> I can open the general leger and access my account from there by the account overview tab is missing.
14:42:56 <jsled> File > New > Account Page (or something like that)
14:43:07 <jsled> Any idea how you managed to close it?
14:44:46 <deepthink> yes I had several reports open in new windows and then I closed the window with the registers.
14:45:06 <deepthink> thanks.
14:45:15 <jsled> Ah ... and as there was another window available for the app to "exist" in, it let you do that just fine.
14:45:54 <jsled> Just another reason to not allow new windows. ;)
14:46:44 <jsled> Actually, I think we use File > New a bit weirdly ... for this and another couple of things.
14:46:54 <jsled> New Budget is there, which isn't really a file-based operation either.
14:47:09 <jsled> New File certainly is ... new Account Hierarchy is more of a data-file modification.
14:48:28 <deepthink> It should be under actions. Could be Open account window / create budget
14:48:39 <deepthink> should/could =)
14:48:49 <jsled> File > New > Account is more of the latter, too.
14:48:49 <deepthink> Does gnucash handle opitons?
14:48:56 <jsled> One really wants an "application concept > new > {Budget, Account Hierarchy, ...}"
14:49:08 <jsled> As you say, we use "Actions", but I've never liked taht menu name.
14:49:42 <jsled> For the Account Page, that's really more under View or Windows...
14:50:12 <deepthink> Why way I think gnucash is excellent!
14:50:26 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_exercised_ISOs_for_a_nonpublic_company.2C_valuable_only_on_paper._How_is_this_represented_in_GnuCash.3F
14:50:43 <deepthink> I like and use it allot. Learned allot about accounting and my financial state.
14:50:48 <jsled> :)
14:53:34 <deepthink> I have created stock account for my options but I used the type "template" and not "private" as the link states. Private does not exist.
14:56:07 <jsled> Hmm. I don't get "template" as an option for Stock accounts. But you can type whatever you like into the combo box.
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15:07:41 <deepthink> Ok. Now I see how it works. I create a security for every option. The type is what is called namespace in the security editor. It is just to group the options.
15:09:12 <jsled> Hmm. That's a good point: there should probably be word alignment. If that field is the commodity "namespace", then it should be labeled as such in the editor.
15:09:29 <jsled> (Or called "type" in the editor, too.)
15:09:55 <deepthink> My securities to not show up in the price editor however. I get a lot of GTK-critical on the console.
15:12:53 <jsled> Hmm. The price editor might be a bit flakier than it should be. You might try closing and re-opening it. ... maybe the application as well.
15:19:38 <deepthink> jsled: thanks. I noticed that with the securities editor. Allot of duplicate entries while working with it but open and closing it will refresh it correctly.
15:19:48 <deepthink> The price editor however does not work for me... =(
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15:30:08 <warlord2> @op
15:30:08 <gncbot> warlord2: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
15:30:14 <warlord2> * sighs *
15:30:20 <warlord2> Gotta wait to get my old nick
15:30:29 <jsled> @op warlord2
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15:30:33 <warlord2> ty
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16:30:28 <warlord2> * sigh * Stupid network.
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16:31:38 <warlord> @op
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18:09:38 <WinXPGnuCash> Hi! Trying to run GnuCash on WinXP - installation goes nicely but when clicking the GnuCash link nothing happens. Any idea where to look for a solution
18:09:39 <WinXPGnuCash> ?
18:10:25 <andi5> i suppose you see two gconfd-2.exe and one gnucash-bin.exe running?
18:11:08 <WinXPGnuCash> nope - not listed in the Windows Task Manager
18:11:55 <andi5> oh? what process is using your cpu then?
18:12:58 <WinXPGnuCash> just tried to start from the cmd using gnucash.bat and it gives an error when trying to update the set PATH= variable
18:13:16 <andi5> what is it?
18:13:47 <WinXPGnuCash> 1 sec
18:14:46 <WinXPGnuCash> hm, I think it screwed up my path variable because it is now: ;;ÿÿÿÿëš‘| ›‘|;D:\Program Files\ESTsoft\ALZip\
18:15:16 <andi5> May you please open that file in notepad.exe and look what it looks like?
18:15:46 <andi5> if that is fine, i can also suggest to add "chcp 1252" as first line (before set PATH...)
18:16:48 <WinXPGnuCash> Path is: PATH=D:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.6\miktex\bin;C:\Perl\bin\;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\AGL;D:\Program Files\VoiceAge\Common;D:\Program Files\ESTsoft\ALZip\;;D:\Dev\SonyEricsson\JavaME_SDK_CLDC\PC_Emulation\WTK2\bin;;;ÿÿÿÿës'| >'|;D:\Program Files\ESTsoft\ALZip\
18:17:11 <andi5> does it show you question marks as well?
18:18:23 <WinXPGnuCash> no questionmarks - but I guess the error is something with this "bin;;;ÿÿÿÿës'| >'|
18:18:50 <andi5> so, there are still two unanswered questions above :-)
18:19:40 <WinXPGnuCash> The error: `>`` is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file
18:20:23 <WinXPGnuCash> the gnucash.bat first line tries the following: set PATH=E:\Program Files\gnucash\bin;E:\Program Files\gnucash\lib;E:\Program Files\gnucash\lib\gnucash;%PATH%
18:21:05 <andi5> hm... that looks good
18:21:31 <andi5> maybe your path is broken? ;-)
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18:25:20 <WinXPGnuCash> checking the environmental variables and fixing it, and then restarting gnucash I can start it :)
18:25:43 <WinXPGnuCash> thx
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18:25:47 <andi5> hehe =)
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18:46:30 * andi5 mumbles a bit about how limited batch file capabilities are
18:47:13 <warlord> heh. yes, they are very limited.
18:47:27 <elb> people use Windows?
18:47:31 <elb> ;-)
18:48:05 <andi5> i guess most people are rather interested in the apps, or more precisely that they do something they need ... at that point of time
18:48:12 <rhowe> andi5: You can do some crazy things with CHOICE :)
18:48:38 <andi5> rhowe: just tell me how to internationalize a batch script... i cannot even include a newline in a variable ....
18:49:08 <warlord> why does the script need to be intl'ized?
18:49:23 <andi5> because i want it that way :)
18:49:36 <rhowe> andi5: TYPE \path\to\text\%LANG%\message.txt? :)
18:50:44 <andi5> rhowe: hm.... maybe not exactly that, but i guess i could spawn translation bats with a parameter specifying the string i want translated
18:51:09 <rhowe> http://www.robvanderwoude.com/clevertricks.html
18:51:19 <warlord> What does the batch script need to do that needs to be intl'ized?
18:51:46 <andi5> warlord: i would like to extend a install-fq-mods.bat script a little bit, and maybe i18n it
18:51:49 <rhowe> andi5: That's how you include newlines :)
18:52:04 <andi5> rhowe: ahhh
18:52:09 <andi5> lemme try
18:53:36 <andi5> warlord: i doubt it will be ready for 2.2.1, but maybe 2.2.2
18:54:44 <andi5> rhowe: i guess i will go read all of them someday :)
18:54:52 <warlord> um, okay
18:56:07 <rhowe> heh. have a read of the first entry on http://www.robvanderwoude.com/useless.html
18:57:20 <andi5> what the...
18:57:39 <andi5> let us call it intuitive
19:05:36 <warlord> heh
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19:27:07 <roxlu> hi there!
19:27:18 <andi5> hi root
19:27:33 <roxlu> I'm thinking about using gnucash for my freelance 'activies'
19:27:35 <roxlu> :-)
19:28:34 <roxlu> though I was wondering, when I buy a computer, and go to the "computer" expense, what is the 'counter' part I need to select?
19:30:00 <andi5> that depends on what you use to buy it... by credit card, master card, by cash or whatever
19:30:30 <andi5> you will find some accounts in the assets subhierarchy
19:31:14 <roxlu> Okay, I bought it using my bank account
19:31:21 <andi5> sounds reasonable
19:31:33 <andi5> rhowe: btw, i18n is working now :)
19:31:52 <warlord> yay
19:31:55 <jsled> roxlu: have you read the Tutorial and Concepts Guide?
19:32:22 <roxlu> jsled: I'm not in "The Account Register" ... but accounting goes way back for me...
19:33:13 <warlord> roxlu: xfer from Bank -> Expenses:Computer
19:33:14 <roxlu> as coutner part, I select "Assets:Checking account" that's correct, right?
19:33:55 <jsled> Right. If you're entering from either of those registers, at least one half of the transaction – the account of the register that you're "in" – should already be filled out.
19:33:57 <roxlu> warlord: oh yeah
19:34:31 <jsled> Depending on which register View you're in (Basic vs. all the others), you'll either see just the "other" Split's account, or all Splits accounts.
19:36:53 <roxlu> Okay I added an expence:Computer in the "Checking account" register, for lets say 500,-. Though the balance column shows 500- why is that?
19:37:26 <jsled> "500,-"?
19:38:38 <roxlu> yes, like 500,00- exactly
19:39:05 <jsled> I'm not sure if we support a trailing minus.
19:39:24 <jsled> That being said, aren't "500,-" and "500-" equal?
19:40:08 <roxlu> it shows "withdrawel: 500,-" and in the balance "500,00-" but that is probably correct right?
19:40:16 <roxlu> of course.. sorry
19:40:21 <andi5> at least in germany ",-" is used for "and zero cents, aka that in euro"
19:40:29 <roxlu> I had no opening value :-)
19:41:53 <jsled> I'm sorry, I'm not understanding. Is the balance value red?
19:42:17 <roxlu> yes
19:42:27 <jsled> If you have no opening balance, and spend/withdraw ¤500 you should have a negative balance.
19:42:27 <roxlu> I was testing an transaction where I bought a computer
19:42:38 <jsled> Ah,great! :) And the expense account should have a positive balance.
19:42:39 <roxlu> yes, so it was correct
19:42:45 <roxlu> yes
19:42:56 <jsled> FWIW, I'm pretty sure we don't support that trailing "-" convention as "and no cents".
19:43:13 <jsled> Though it should complain while parsing (via a dialog box)
19:45:33 <warlord> true, we do not support it. the '-' will be taken as 'subtraction'..
19:49:04 <roxlu> I've seen the split transactions... which I probably need to keep track of my taxes. Though, do I need to configure the tax accounts myself or do they have a value by default? (tax-value)
19:50:57 <warlord> you have to create all data
19:51:19 <roxlu> Okay
19:52:21 <roxlu> So for the computer I bought with 19% tax included, I need to create a new account "Tax 19%" and check the "Tax related checkbox" ?
19:54:18 <roxlu> I just started a company in januari and kept my accounting in a Excell file :-) ... though this is way easier!!
19:55:59 <roxlu> Is the file-format crossplatform?
19:56:27 <andi5> yes
19:56:43 <roxlu> When I save a file, what is the default extension?
19:57:10 <jsled> there is none; "xac", "gnc" and "gnucash" are all "registered" in mime-info.
19:57:17 <andi5> i think whatever you enter.... if you do not enter anything, then there is no extension :-) ... i keep using .gnc though and haved no idea whether that is standard :)
19:57:47 <roxlu> ok
19:57:58 <andi5> .xac is used for backups, so you might want to refrain using that
19:58:04 <andi5> +from
19:58:13 <roxlu> I think it's smart to use one by default qua usability
19:58:44 <roxlu> users want to click on a filename and open it using the application
19:59:01 <andi5> btw... maybe we need some extension hacking on win32
19:59:08 <jsled> yes: re defaults.
19:59:27 <jsled> A part of it is the fact that we want to be backend agnostic.
19:59:48 <jsled> If we have a database backend, then the whole concept of extensions doesn't make much sense.
20:01:04 <roxlu> I'm a freelance webdeveloper.. when I do a project and get some money on the bank, what counter part do I need to use?
20:01:22 <jsled> roxlu: Please read the tutorial and concepts guide about he business features.
20:01:37 <roxlu> sorry i did :-(
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20:03:08 <roxlu> it's more that I totally haven't got experience with accounting.. and I provided a "service" for the company that hired me...
20:03:26 <roxlu> and I don't know what kind of account that must be
20:03:53 <warlord> roxlu: read the tutorial from start to end.
20:03:54 <jsled> Right. So you've provided a Job for a Customer. Via an Invoice, an entry against an Accounts-Receivable (A/R) account will be made.
20:04:09 <jsled> When you get the payment, it'll be applied and become an actual Asset.
20:04:10 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/chapter_bus_ar.html
20:04:17 <jsled> (warlord: is that about right?)
20:04:53 <warlord> yes
20:05:01 <roxlu> Thanks a lot jsled (didn't read the whole help file)
20:05:28 * roxlu reading it now
20:06:14 <warlord> jsled: should we suggest to ahmad that he separate classes out of Gnucash.py and into separate modules for each thing being tested?
20:06:30 <warlord> e.g. Account.py, Register.py, etc.
20:07:38 <jsled> warlord: I'm fine either way. I'm a big fan of having everything in one file while working, and splitting things out near the end.
20:07:52 <warlord> okay.
20:08:07 <jsled> warlord: which is to say, I'd like to see him do that, yes. Maybe not now.
20:08:08 <warlord> as a reviewer i find it hard to find specific classes that way
20:16:11 <roxlu> When I use the business features, do I need to use the 'invoices' feature as well?
20:17:31 <warlord> by definition.
20:18:00 <roxlu> Ah I see, so I can use my own created invoices and just relate the number in gnucash
20:20:03 <roxlu> warlord: I think this is not really what I want
20:20:47 <roxlu> I've got a system/registration for my invoices and customers. I just want to keep track of them in gnucash
20:20:53 <warlord> if you dont use the invoice features then none of the other business features/reports will work.
20:21:09 <roxlu> yes, but I dont need them
20:21:31 <roxlu> or do I, for the A/R and A/P ?
20:22:33 <roxlu> Can't I just create a accunt like "Sold websites" ?
20:25:49 <warlord> sure, but then none of the busines reports will work.
20:26:37 <roxlu> but I still can create TAX reports... I only have max. 10 transactions per month
20:27:32 <roxlu> warlord: Is it wise to create a "Sales: websites" account?
20:27:38 <roxlu> with type "income" ?
20:33:42 <warlord> "tax report"?
20:33:56 * warlord has "Income:sales"
20:34:18 <roxlu> warlord: yes me too, so I click on it open the register
20:34:40 <roxlu> (I made a sub-account:websites) But what do I fill in there?
20:34:41 <warlord> It helps if you only act from Asset and Liability registers.
20:34:48 <roxlu> okay
20:34:50 <warlord> Rarely should you ever need to open an Income or Expense register.
20:34:54 <warlord> It'll make your brain hurt
20:35:07 <roxlu> :-) it does
20:35:16 <roxlu> so I open Accounts Receivable ?
20:35:40 <warlord> No.. if you're not using invoices then you don't track it. Only track your payments.
20:36:37 <roxlu> oh, though for the taxes I need to calculate also the tax for invoices which haven't been paid?
20:37:08 <roxlu> so therefore I probably need to make use of the business-features/invoices?
20:37:25 <warlord> If you're not using Business -> Customer -> New Invoice then you need to compute everything manually and you don't use A/R.
20:38:34 <roxlu> I could create my own "To be received" account of course
20:39:08 <roxlu> or Open invoices?
20:39:12 <warlord> true, but if you're going to do that you might as well go through the extra work to enter the invoices into gnucash using Business -> ...
20:39:38 <roxlu> but I already have a system for that... I don't want to do the same work twice
20:40:21 <roxlu> Thanks for your help though!
20:42:25 <warlord> Note that all gnucash needs is the invoice transaction. You dont need to itemize it. Just enter the customer, total sale, and due date.
20:44:08 <warlord> anyways, I gotta run. I'll be back online shortly but will be going AFK.
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