2007-07-17 GnuCash IRC logs
00:09:02 <warlord> Oh, right -- we think we left "close books" and "QSF Import" enabled in 2.2.0!
00:11:22 <Sathamoth> Is there any keyboard shortcut for moving between tabs? I mean selecting the next tab on the left/right with the keyboard?
00:25:13 <warlord> I THOUGHT shift-tab, maybe? It depends where you have focus. I'm not 100% sure.
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01:06:58 <Sathamoth> warlord: yup, looks like it.. first the focus must be set on tab row with shift-tab and then I can use arrow keys to move between tabs
01:07:16 <Sathamoth> that's good enough for me :)
01:07:21 <warlord> There ya go! :)
01:07:28 <warlord> Feel free to submit a documentation patch ;)
01:07:48 <Sathamoth> my mouse is always soooo far away :)
01:07:58 <warlord> heh
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01:34:47 <Bitruder> I tried installing 2.1.5 via MacPorts but I get gnc.bin-Message: main: binreloc relocation support was disable at configure time. when I try to run it. Any ideas?
01:35:13 <warlord> Bitruder: It's just a warning that's perfectly safe to ignore
01:35:46 <warlord> i.e., it's an expected output.
01:35:57 <Bitruder> oh, actually, I wasn't running it in X11
01:36:14 <warlord> (although perhaps it should go into gnucash.trace instead of stdout)
01:36:40 <Bitruder> ok, so I just tried it in X11 and I get a bunch of errors right after the splash screen comes up
01:37:09 <warlord> what kind of errors (if it's more than a couple lines than pastebin them)
01:38:22 <Bitruder> http://pastebin.com/d561d115a
01:39:02 <Bitruder> This is in OS X 10.4.10 installed via MacPorts exactly as specified on the Wiki
01:39:15 <Bitruder> gnucash-devel was the package I installed
01:41:43 <Bitruder> Found a mailing list post: https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2007-July/020928.html
01:42:09 <warlord> This looks like a guile1.6 v guile1.8 issue
01:42:50 <Bitruder> yup, it is
01:43:05 <Bitruder> the Wiki should be updated since I guess it's method of installing guile1.6 doesn't work
01:43:17 <warlord> then go ahead and update it ;)
01:44:37 <warlord> I think there might be some way to say something like "port install gnucash +guile16" or something
01:44:37 <Bitruder> maybe later :)
01:44:49 <Bitruder> yeah, that's the solution posted in the mailing list
01:45:32 <Bitruder> bed now though... I'll try it in the morning.
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03:10:16 <ndlovu> hi all. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature, but if I'm entering a description for a transaction in the journal which matches a previous transaction, the rest of the details of that transaction are automatically entered.
03:11:03 <ndlovu> this is especially annoying when the previous transaction was a split, which means that I need to remove the split or cancel the whole transaction to continue
03:11:32 <ndlovu> I should note that this only happens when I tab from the Description column
03:11:56 <ndlovu> is there some way to regain the use of my Tab key so that it doesn't automatically fill in the details?
03:12:27 <ndlovu> (using GnuCash 2.0.1 on Ubuntu)
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09:28:53 <mzanfardino> chris: thank you very much for your comments and insight concerning how I should account for the HELOC. I think your answer is sensible and I will deal with the HELOC as you suggest
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10:11:16 <chris> mzanfardino: you're welcome
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10:22:13 <warlord> ndlovu: That's considered a feature. There are ways you can enter the description so it doesn't happen (for example, let it quickfill the description then hit right-arrow, space, backspace, tab). Or once it quickfills you can right-click and 'delete splits'
10:24:20 <jsled> I believe there's an RFE for either a ctrl-tab or pref to disable the behavior.
10:24:55 <ndlovu> warlord: thanks for the suggestion. I've tried right-arrow, space, backspace, tab and it still auto-completes the transaction
10:25:40 <warlord> ndlovu: then use the right-click 'delete all splits' option.
10:25:40 <ndlovu> actually it's quite a handy feature most of the time. It's just that with split transactions it's a real headache and I can never remember whether the previous transaction was a split or not.
10:26:01 <warlord> You can see if it's a split by looking in the "transfer account" column.
10:26:03 <jsled> yeah ... my groceries transactions all share 3 and usually differ in 2-3 splits.
10:26:15 <jsled> ndlovu: Auto-Split view is love. :)
10:26:57 <ndlovu> jsled: I haven't tried Auto-Split view yet - will have to give it a shot!
10:28:15 <ndlovu> warlord: the easiest I've found is just to click the transfer column after autofilling the description, but I do like Tab for the rest
10:28:36 <warlord> jsled: my biggest beef with auto-split mode is that it still splits a "basic" transaction too.
10:30:00 <ndlovu> I must say though that after hoarding receipts for months and doing nothing with them, I heard a chorus of angels when I discovered just how easy gnucash is to use!
10:38:02 <warlord> :-D
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15:29:23 <Vino> Hello! How can I run a report that gets GnuCash to show me how much I've paid towards my liabilities per month?
15:29:51 <Vino> Just like the expense barchart report, but for payments to liabilities.
15:30:15 <warlord> Hmm..
15:30:33 <warlord> I dont think there is one. Theres the cash flow report, but it's not a chart.
15:31:12 <Vino> oh I see. I guess that would do, but for us visual people, would the dev team be interested in something like that? is it hard?
15:31:42 <warlord> A cash-flow chart would definitely be interesting.
15:32:05 <warlord> Just make sure you implement off 2.2.0/trunk, not 2.0.x
15:32:34 <Vino> That was a veiled suggestion that I do it, wasn't it ;)
15:33:11 <warlord> Well, you had a veiled offer TO do it... ;)
15:33:48 <Vino> oops, I meant to ask if the dev team was interested in doing it themselves :P
15:34:47 <warlord> Oh, no.
15:34:56 <warlord> At least.. unlikely.
15:35:07 <Vino> are you open to patches?
15:35:10 <warlord> Of course :)
15:35:24 <Vino> and by that I mean, like, if people send you some do you actually use them
15:35:45 <Vino> (cause last time 2x i contributed to an open source project they said "your patch sucks" and went on their way)
15:37:12 <warlord> Well, if the patch really sucks then yeah, we'd toss it back. But we'd probably give constructive suggestions for how to improve it. Maybe times we do just take the patches, or massage them a little.
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15:42:41 <Vino> ok yeah
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15:42:47 <Vino> (sorry)
15:43:36 <warlord> sorry for what?
15:43:36 <Vino> I like to think my code doesn't suck, but the reasons they rejected my patches were either, nobody wanted to look at it so they gave a BS excuse (x-chat) or they didn't want the feature (gaim)
15:43:44 <Vino> length of time in response.
15:45:08 <warlord> yes, sometimes we're not very prompt about dealing.
15:47:25 <Vino> i can understand that
15:48:12 <Vino> maybe when I have some spare time i'll attempt this patch, it can't be too hard
15:48:12 <warlord> I mean, I think we have some patches in our bug tracker that might be over a year old.
15:48:38 <warlord> Honestly, I dont know. I've never done a graphical report, only a text report.
15:49:11 <Vino> well all the code is already there, bar charts and liabilities and whatnot, in other reports, I would imagine
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15:49:43 <Vino> I think the problem I had with the x-chat guys is the way I was treated more than the length of time to review the patch itself. Especially because the patch appeared an x-chat fork, silverex, within like a week
15:49:57 <jsled> If you already have a report that computes the numbers, then emitting the incantation to generate the chart, which is pretty straightforward.
15:50:15 <jsled> Unless, the report mixes computing the data with rendering/emitting the HTML, in which case it might be harder.
15:50:31 <warlord> I have no idea how the cash-flow report is implemented.
15:50:45 <jsled> Unfortunately, our reports do conflate those two steps a bit too often. :/ But even still, it should be "straightforward".
15:51:01 <jsled> Not as it should be, but hopefully I'll find some time to work on that here soon.
15:51:17 <Vino> cool
15:51:41 <Vino> so what are you guys planning to do 2.4-wise? or have you not decided?
15:51:59 <warlord> We're not that organized.
15:51:59 <jsled> we don't have quite the development momentum to do much forward planning.
15:52:02 <jsled> heh.
15:52:44 <jsled> I'd guess we'll need to deal with the damn gtkprint/gtkhtml situation in the next 6months or so.
15:52:51 <jsled> Hopefully we can fold the SoC projects in.
15:52:51 <Vino> ah right.
15:52:54 <warlord> There are things each of us would like to see, but the problem is the cycles to get it done and also handle the influx of tech support and bug tracking and...
15:53:12 <Vino> jsled, i don't understand any of that :P
15:53:13 <Vino> yeah
15:53:14 <jsled> Hopefully I'll get up off my ass on the reporting stuff I keep talking about.
15:53:44 <Vino> now that you guys have a windows version I find myself recommending GnuCash to people who don't use Linux
15:53:56 <Vino> if that happens on a macro scale then you guys will have a problem :P
15:53:57 <jsled> Ah. Well, printing is moving from libgnome print into gtk. And gtkhtml already switch out on us. So, we'll probably need to fix our own uses.
15:54:16 <Vino> I see
15:54:34 <jsled> And we have 3 active Google Summer of Code projects: delimited file import, UI testing and work on the register re-write.
15:54:49 <jsled> So, hopefully those projects will complete happily and can be folded into the trunk and thus 2.4.
15:55:09 <Vino> that sounds awesome.
15:55:26 <jsled> Honestly, we could just do a release of bug fixing, and it would be very welcome.
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15:56:23 <Vino> some UI improvements wouldn't be too bad. The tabs and buttons are good, but kind of awkward when compared to stuff like Firefox
15:57:30 <jsled> well-thought-out suggestions welcome! :)
15:57:34 <jsled> Patches even more so! :)
15:57:48 <Vino> yes :)
15:57:58 <Vino> even so I love gnucash, it's very helpful.
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18:05:43 <fell> hi,jsled: a switzer complained, that on http://www.gnucash.org/de/ "Older Announcements" leads to nowhere.
18:07:05 <warlord> Indeed.. The requested URL /de/oldnews.phtml was not found on this server.
18:07:27 <jsled> I'll make a note.
18:07:33 <fell> AFAIK there is no de/oldnews. In de.po I see no possibility to influence this.
18:08:05 <jsled> actually...
18:11:46 <jsled> fixed
18:12:35 <jsled> strange; the symlink already existed for all the other language dirs.
18:13:06 <fell> fine :-)
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18:40:02 <felle> Rol1: About accounting frame, today I scanned https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/kontenrahmen-devel. Interresting work, but it seem the project died in Jan.
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19:14:36 <rhowe> jsled: £10k for a version of gnucash which allowed multiple customers per invoice based upon an insurance policy (percentage split between many companies, used for multiple invoices on multiple jobs) and which supported ~30 concurrent users :)
19:14:47 <rhowe> jsled: Work's looking at replacing the accounts system
19:45:07 <Rol1> felle:
19:45:14 <Rol1> Sorry for the late reply
19:45:24 <Rol1> I wrote them a mail and got a reply.
19:45:34 <Rol1> I think it is just a quiet project now
19:45:38 <Rol1> But not dead
19:45:39 <Rol1> I hope
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19:51:44 <felle> I downloaded the spreadsheet and it looks quite complex. I don't know, how to realize in GC.
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20:49:15 <Rolf> felle: I really have to go to sleep now
20:49:24 <Rolf> Would love to talk more with you tomorrow
20:51:04 <felle> Rolf: CU
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22:17:28 <wasabi> so what's a good way to get started with gnucash? use opening balances for all your accounts and just choose a date upon which to start entry?
22:21:13 <jsled> yeah. beginning of year is good ... but it's just an arbitrary day, to some degree.
22:21:59 <chris> wasabi: might be good to use the beginning date of the last bank statement you want to reconcile with.
22:23:55 <jsled> rhowe: interesting.
22:27:02 <wasabi> So what sort of importing/sync features does this have? I have BofA... it'd be neat if It could parse common transactions and assign to accounts.
22:27:45 <wasabi> Or at least show me all the transactions and let me assign the two accounts or something.
22:27:51 <wasabi> (useful stuff)
22:29:45 <chris> wasabi: There's QIF import, and OFX/QFX import.
22:38:57 <wasabi> Hmm. If I enter 629.84 into a box, it shows up as 629 +41 / 50
22:39:10 <wasabi> what's all that mean?
22:41:35 <wasabi> .82
22:41:40 <wasabi> anything i enter comes out as a weird fraction heh
22:43:05 <jsled> In which box?
22:43:10 <chris> wasabi: which box is that? Sounds like a bug.
22:43:14 <jsled> The opening balance box?
22:43:17 <wasabi> OPening Balance
22:43:17 <wasabi> yeah
22:43:19 <jsled> I fixed that bug... what version?
22:43:34 <wasabi> probably needs an ubuntu update
22:43:36 <wasabi> .0.5
22:43:38 <wasabi> 2.0.
22:43:40 <jsled> heh.
22:43:41 <wasabi> bah. silly laptop
22:44:05 <jsled> I thought I might have fixed it for 2.0.5, but I doubt it.
22:44:16 <wasabi> well is the fraction workable?
22:44:27 <jsled> It should just be a display issue.
22:44:35 <wasabi> Yeah, it worked.
22:56:16 <wasabi> should i be entering negative number in liability acounts (credit cards)?
22:56:31 <jsled> I don't believe so.
22:56:38 <jsled> Liability accounts are "sign reversed".
22:56:50 <wasabi> ok cool
22:57:22 <jsled> (though, I have a lingering feeling the opening balance druid might muck it up. But, if it does, easy enough to change the transactions later.)
22:59:02 <jsled> All that druid does it create appropriately-dated transactions against the Equity:Opening Balance account.
22:59:33 <jsled> wasabi: fwiw, if you've not read the tutorial and concepts guide, it's a good read. It sounds like you're groking things nicely, but you should know it's there.
22:59:50 <wasabi> i have some double entry accounting experience
23:01:19 <wasabi> hmm made a CC with an opening balance, but it didn't subtract from my assets.
23:01:43 <jsled> it won't.
23:02:04 <jsled> I mean. Opening liabilities affect Equity, not Assets.
23:02:30 <wasabi> hmm. the first CC I made did subtract from it
23:02:42 <wasabi> the little Assets tag in the status bar, I mean
23:02:55 <jsled> Hmm.
23:05:29 <wasabi> my opening balance in my checking + savings (under assets) - the first credit card = the amout displayed int he status bar
23:05:33 <wasabi> but the second CC is just absent
23:05:55 <jsled> That's interesting. I'd check the types of the two accounts, and make sure they're both Liability/Credit Card accounts.
23:06:32 <wasabi> yup they are
23:07:20 <jsled> Hmm. Well, I've had a long-standing personal todo item to wholesale re-write that status bar thingy... though I admit mostly on the display/infrastructure side, not the computation itself.
23:07:44 <wasabi> is the status bar some calculated amount, that will fix itself when you rewrite it? :)
23:07:49 <wasabi> if so, i will ignore it
23:08:17 <jsled> Well, it should be correct, even now.
23:08:35 <jsled> But I don't have good guidance for you, short of pulling up gdb and stepping through its computation. :/
23:09:12 <wasabi> hehe
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23:16:23 <wasabi> heh. the account summary report shows the balance on the credit card as 0
23:16:32 <wasabi> but the actual tree view shows it as $500 and some change
23:18:53 <wasabi> hmm. the date of the opening balance was 1969
23:18:58 <wasabi> fixed that and it's all better now
23:30:46 <jsled> and that was created by the Opening Balance druid?
23:30:56 <jsled> (the 1969 dated txn)?
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23:38:42 <wasabi> yeah
23:39:13 <wasabi> so.. importing 4 QIF files... I think it's asking me to classify transactions from the first one... there are some transfers on here... do I set those to the destination account, or what?
23:39:44 <wasabi> and it will let me choose the other side later?
23:39:48 <jsled> Yeah ... if they're "normal" transactions, generally into Expense accounts.
23:40:09 <wasabi> Yeah, some are transfers to other accounts, represented by one of hte other Qif files.
23:40:16 <jsled> Hmm. The first step (IIRC) is to choose the Asset account for the QIF import, which is one side.
23:40:18 <wasabi> So, there isa corresponding transaction in another file
23:40:22 <wasabi> Yeah. I did that.
23:40:52 <jsled> Ah, yeah, so in those cases not Expense accounts, but probably the other Asset (or whatever) accounts that the transfer was against.
23:43:47 <warlord> wasabi: are the transactions properly marked between ACCOUNTS and not categories?
23:44:14 <wasabi> Hmm. Depends what that means. I choose the asset accounts for each qif file up front.
23:44:26 <warlord> what's the source of the qif?
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23:45:21 <warlord> the gnucash qif importer walks you through multiple stages of mapping various qif items to gnucash accounts.. The source account, then QIF Accounts marked in the file, then QIF Categories marked in the file, then Payee/Memo.
23:46:02 <wasabi> Ahh. The file has blank categories.
23:46:05 <wasabi> Mapped to Unspecified.
23:46:22 <wasabi> Which defaulted everything on th enext page, which I am changing 1 by 1
23:47:14 <warlord> The cross-account transactions MUST have a proper Qif Account marked, otherwise the importer will think it needs to go to an income/expense account.
23:48:16 <wasabi> You're saying *I* need to choose the other Account for each of the cross-account transactions?
23:48:37 <warlord> You need to map the QIF account to the gnucash account, yes.
23:48:43 <wasabi> okay, cool.
23:48:59 <wasabi> Well, it has yet to ask me for destination Qif accounts for specific tansactions.
23:49:14 <wasabi> The file contained no categories.
23:50:16 <warlord> It wont ask you for specific transactions; it'll ask you during an earlier stage of the import. But if the QIF File contains no accounts or categories then you're screwed.
23:50:32 <wasabi> hurm. well that's no good.
23:50:41 <wasabi> can i fix it up after importing it?
23:50:53 <warlord> It would be easier to fix the qif before you import it.
23:50:57 <wasabi> heh.
23:51:04 <warlord> seriously.
23:51:08 <wasabi> i just spent 15 minutes choosing gnucash accounts. =/
23:51:38 <warlord> and you'll spend another hour fixing up the cross-asset transfers or dealing with duplicate account trees.
23:51:53 <warlord> You can either front-load or tail-load your time. The choice is yours
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23:52:15 <warlord> Me, I just wrote a few perl scripts to massage the QIF file from known sources to make it look right.
23:52:45 <wasabi> Well, you're saying that unless each file labels the transaction as heading towards a specific other named qif account, then gnucash won't hook up the two related transactions in the 4 various files.
23:52:58 <warlord> Right
23:53:08 <wasabi> Okay, well, there are only... 5 such transactions.
23:53:14 <wasabi> So probably not the biggest deal?
23:53:18 <warlord> for example, if there's no "L[Foo]" then it wont know to link the two "Foo" accounts.
23:53:55 <wasabi> Heh. A nice transaction mapping screen on the importer woud help... where you could add pairs of transactions with swaped src/dst accounts. =)
23:55:11 <jsled> From earlier this afternooon...
23:55:12 <jsled> <jsled> well-thought-out suggestions welcome! :)
23:55:12 <jsled> <jsled> Patches even more so! :)
23:55:48 <wasabi> like every other foss project ever.
23:55:59 <jsled> For me, I must get to bed. G'night. wasabi: best of luck.
23:56:08 <wasabi> nice. thanks for the help.
23:56:11 <wasabi> night.