2007-07-11 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:08 <pwnguin> so at least one group of open source people can "afford to be wrong" ;)
00:00:20 <dbr> nope. you build it yourself
00:00:30 <pwnguin> though i suppose you're not building binaries
00:00:31 <pwnguin> err
00:00:33 <pwnguin> distributing
00:00:43 <dbr> yep
00:03:04 <pwnguin> still, it seems like the gpl definition of source code may allow linking to non-gpl libraries, if they are normally distributed with the major components of the os itself
00:04:16 <pwnguin> of course, if the bug is "debian doesn't like our software" i dont think simply stating that it is compatible will solve anything
00:04:59 <jsled> Well, I think debian would love to package gnucash with HBCI if it was compatible, ftr.
00:05:23 <pwnguin> the thing is, they believe it isn't
00:06:01 <pwnguin> i guess they're worried someone would buy copyright from one of the developers, and then sue debian for damages
00:06:45 <pwnguin> under the guise that openSSL isn't a major component
00:07:54 <pwnguin> so how exactly do you determine who has rights to re-license something?
00:07:58 <pwnguin> last guy to commit to a file?
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00:08:21 <pwnguin> all committers consent? all committers with code still remaining's consent?
00:09:12 <dbr> that last touches on the subject of how well the copyright holders are known for all mods to the existing code
00:09:18 <jsled> It's an issue of copyright. It's certainly not "last committer". I'd argue that it's not "all committers". It's some function of how much of the file you've authored.
00:10:17 <dbr> the hairsplitters probably contend that anyone who has authored code holds copyright over those pieces, however small
00:10:43 <jsled> probably.
00:10:49 <pwnguin> wait, you get a vote?
00:11:04 <pwnguin> or simply some threshold before re-license requires your approval?
00:11:47 <jsled> well, as the copyright holder, you get to decide under what terms you provide that to others.
00:11:58 <dbr> copyright is kinda absolute. If you hold it, you control it. Not voting
00:12:14 <pwnguin> those terms in this case are basically the GPL
00:12:28 <pwnguin> afaik, the GPL makes no claims about ownership of modifications
00:12:58 <dbr> and so the arguments begin with respect to normal copyright practice
00:13:03 <pwnguin> this is probably why the FSF requires copyright assignment and signatures
00:13:06 <jsled> Basically. We have some public domain sources.
00:14:11 <pwnguin> i guess there's something about what is copyright-able
00:14:44 <jsled> yeah.
00:15:00 <pwnguin> if you have a one line patch
00:15:26 * pwnguin wonders of ohloh indexes gnucash
00:15:54 <pwnguin> here's a real trick
00:15:57 <jsled> Yes.
00:16:09 <pwnguin> if you submit a patch that simply removes five lines
00:16:12 <pwnguin> is that copyrightable?
00:16:35 <jsled> Heh. I don't believe so, no.
00:17:05 <dbr> good question. Gotta lawyer handy?
00:17:21 <pwnguin> nope =/
00:18:06 <pwnguin> on the other hand, a sculpture is about removing things
00:18:20 <pwnguin> you chisel away stone until the shape you desire is formed
00:18:32 <jsled> Well, sculpture isn't subject to copyright, either. :)
00:18:50 <pwnguin> i wonder if that's true
00:19:17 <jsled> I suppose you could start off with every possible line of source code, then just chisel away , or re-arrange, them until you have something functional, &c.
00:19:19 <pwnguin> copright.gov seems to disagree
00:19:59 <jsled> but the author of all the original lines probably holds copyright on the resultant mess? Or is it treated like a database ... an assembly of facts that's independently copyrightable from the component elements.
00:20:39 <jsled> I'm wrong, indeed.
00:22:11 <pwnguin> ohloh suggests theres only 16 committers
00:22:26 <jsled> There are fewer active committers at the moment, as well.
00:22:37 <pwnguin> though i suppose there could be patches accepted and committed
00:22:48 <jsled> Yes; there are many of those.
00:23:06 <jsled> See http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk/AUTHORS
00:23:19 <pwnguin> woa
00:23:27 <jsled> (though we've been bad about updating that list in the last couple of years)
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00:29:13 <jsled> pwnguin: fair enough; that section is headed "Other Contributors"...
00:31:13 <pwnguin> some of these are things you could probably drop if you can't get authorization from the nessecary people, like RPM spec patches, but even then it seems like a lot of work
00:31:32 <jsled> indeed.
00:32:35 <pwnguin> i was hoping ohloh could identify who still had code in where, but it seems CVS doesnt distinguish between committer and author
00:33:15 <pwnguin> oh well, off to figure out how to make stock quotes work. hopefully this doesn't require weapons grade encryption
00:35:44 <jsled> cheers.
00:41:07 <warlord> enjoy
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00:55:06 <pwnguin> so i've gotta grab finance::quote from cpan?
00:56:13 <warlord> pwnguin: or your distro.
00:57:34 <pwnguin> hmm. do i want libfinance-quote-perl or libfinance-yahooquote-perl...
00:57:48 <warlord> I think the answer is "yes"
00:58:02 <pwnguin> heh
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01:18:10 <pwnguin> apparently yahoo! and my brokerage disagree on when my mutual fund was worth how much
01:18:29 <warlord> huh
01:19:14 <pwnguin> well, maybe i just interpreted it wrong
01:19:32 <pwnguin> apparently Previous Close means at least 24 hours ago
01:26:29 <pwnguin> alright, so i guess its working, and im a bit poorer than i thought ;)
01:26:43 <warlord> heh
01:27:14 <pwnguin> although it's a bit annoying to have to go click on some subtool to update
01:28:05 <Sathamoth> pwnguin: My GnuCash and E*Trade disagree on value of my USD stocks as well :)
01:28:41 <pwnguin> fidelity and yahoo agree now
01:28:53 <pwnguin> and i just tell gnucash to pull from fidelity
01:29:15 <pwnguin> sometimes it seems like yahoo! fudges the numbers
01:29:32 <pwnguin> ive seen different prices for bonds during off market hours by clicking refresh
01:30:03 <Sathamoth> heh, nice
01:30:05 <warlord> ok
01:30:33 <pwnguin> not by much, but i wouldn't want to build a screen scraper around such deviations
01:31:43 <pwnguin> so what's this i read about needing several accounts for a single commodity?
01:32:21 <Sathamoth> btw I couldn't get "Get Quotes" function to work in my GnuCash 2.0.5 on OS X, it shows a dialog with error message "GnuCash has crashed" and that I should install bug-buggy to report about it, but when I click OK it just continues to work :)
01:32:45 <pwnguin> run it from the command line
01:32:48 <pwnguin> see what comes up
01:32:49 <Sathamoth> but I haven't have really investigated it further..
01:33:28 * pwnguin really isnt sure about the need for cap gains on funds held in a roth IRA
01:35:58 <Sathamoth> hey that's cool. When I launch GnuCash from xterm and run the Get Quotes function it works just fine, but when I launch it from the shortcut menu of X11.app the gnucash-bin actually crashes :)
01:36:29 <pwnguin> hahaha
01:36:34 <Sathamoth> in libguile.12.dylib, scm_lfwrite function
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01:40:05 <Sathamoth> I suppose some env variables are different when launched from the shortcut menu, but that shouldn't cause a crash.. well, I should investigate this a bit more later.. now back to work.
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02:24:52 <pwnguin> what's the purpose of the Adjustment predefined account in Expenses?
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03:18:21 <pwnguin> holy crap the budget estimator is bad. guess i need more than six month's worth of data to get good predictions
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10:15:58 <chris> pwnguin: The budget "estimator" uses exactly the historical data, rounded as you wish.
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11:18:00 <aluink> has anyone ever thought of making a console client to gnucash using ncurses?
11:20:03 <aluink> i'm currently working on finch, sibling console client to pidgin, and would like to write a console gnucash client
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11:20:22 <warlord> there's work on something called "cashutil"
11:21:34 <warlord> not curses, per se.
11:27:56 <Vino> this has happened twice to me so far: I'm using the RC for GnuCash for Windows, and after alt tabbing or clicking around the program stops responding to mouse clicks
11:28:09 <Vino> everything draws ok but it will not respond to the mouse or keyboard
11:28:20 <Vino> or the X button
11:29:26 <andi5> maybe there is a window in the background having focus? ... you could try to minimize all windows and restore the gnucash window
11:29:49 * andi5 thinks it is the "autosave request window"
11:29:52 <Vino> i will try that next time
11:30:09 <Vino> you think the window popped into the back instead of the front?
11:30:14 <andi5> yep
11:30:47 <andi5> just change something and wait 5 minutes or so
11:31:59 <Vino> without saving?
11:32:03 <andi5> yes
11:32:23 <Vino> oh ok cause i just developed the habit of saving after every transaction!
11:32:49 <andi5> hm... then it is probably some different problem :)
11:32:59 <Vino> no, I developed it because of this problem :P
11:33:04 <andi5> hehe
11:33:08 <Vino> i'll stop it for a while
11:33:50 <andi5> warlord: i think i had success with gtk_window_present some time ago, but i did not test it thoroughly
11:34:41 <warlord> ummm... ok?
11:35:20 <andi5> hm, you asked about that in the corresponding bug report and i just remembered :)
11:36:05 <warlord> I did? /me has no memory. ;)
11:37:35 <Vino> andi5, that's what it was
11:38:13 <Vino> it popped up while i was alt-tabbed looking at the boa website
11:38:28 <Vino> and when i tabbed back it was gone and you need to minimize gnucash to see it
11:38:37 <Vino> gg bye
11:38:39 <andi5> ok... i will give you a link to a bug soon... you can describe there (and maybe add some text about this really annoying issue)
11:38:55 <andi5> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395327
11:38:59 <Vino> ok, i will when i get back in about an hour and a half
11:39:00 <Vino> thanks :)
11:39:05 <andi5> thanks
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13:52:04 <Vino> andi5, looks like you guys got this one pretty well covered, is there anything else in specific you want me to note?
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14:16:02 <andi5> Vino: just add a note about that specific issue :-D (me is lazy right now ;-))
14:16:51 <Vino> right
14:22:05 <Vino> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395327#c5
14:22:28 <andi5> thanks a dozen
14:34:50 <warlord> Is that a real dozen or a baker's dozen?
14:37:47 <andi5> whatever is more :)
14:37:59 <warlord> the latter is 13
14:38:22 <andi5> that is much
14:42:12 <warlord> a dozen is 12. baker's dozen is 13.
14:56:09 <andi5> i know, i know... make it a thousand then
15:03:31 <warlord> :-D
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16:09:16 <GuiGS> People, the problem I had yesterday with OFX files was because http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450354
16:11:41 <andi5> hm... i really thought this problem is specific to the qif importer... will need to check that
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16:38:32 <andi5> GuiGS: what you reported is unrelated to the qif import problem and a lot easier to fix... i hope to have it done today
16:41:54 <warlord> andi5: easier to fix because ofx is in C/C++ (v. scheme)?
16:42:48 <andi5> yes... it seems the qif importer uses the path in both, scheme and c.... c needs utf-8, scheme the locale encoding
16:45:52 <andi5> mk... seems to work... /me just pushes
16:47:43 <warlord> Hmm.
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17:12:14 <GuiGS> andi5: well, ok. thanks for support!
17:14:21 <andi5> i guess you do not build from sources, right?
17:15:27 <andi5> oh, and thank _you_ for spotting the bug
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17:21:10 <GuiGS> No, I prefer to wait for 2.2.0 ;-)
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17:46:05 <bonez44> how does one set up gnucash, to manage both Home and Business accounts? I have reviewed the documentation and can't find anything on this
17:46:54 <warlord> bonez44: two data files
17:47:14 <warlord> (assuming they are two tax-entities)
17:47:28 <warlord> ... with separate bank accounts..
17:47:33 <bonez44> warlord: well, both files will contain tax related accounts...certainly....
17:47:57 <bonez44> so currently I just have my business chart of accounts set up....
17:48:47 <warlord> Do you share bank accounts with your business?
17:49:54 <bonez44> well, I have two business bank accounts..and I often transfer money from business to home..so that I can write checks out or pay online bills...from the home account..
17:50:10 <bonez44> so currently I have 2 biz and 1 home banking accounts/checking..
17:50:37 <warlord> Okay... Then yes, two data files.. And for the transfers between you'll need to enter two transactions (one in each set of books)
17:51:22 <bonez44> so the two files won't be interconnected..I have to manually show what goes from one to the other?
17:51:53 <bonez44> for example, if I go to my credit union, and do a transfer between the biz and home accounts...I have to do two transactions in gnucash to account for the one transfer?
17:52:39 <warlord> Correct
17:56:20 <bonez44> ok....one more question..I enter an expense under Groceries..entering name of grocer...and the amount, and once i Enter..it shows "Imbalance - USD" ... Why would it indicate an 'imbalance'?
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18:02:23 <bonez44> just trying to figure out how best to enter transactions so that the end result shows what it should...
18:03:03 <dbr> bonez44: use Tab instead of Enter on the first split. Gnucash is reading Enter as "complete the transaction"
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18:03:39 <dbr> since you've only entered one split, gnucash obliges by entering a balancing split for you in a default account
18:03:51 <warlord> bonez44: you didn't enter a "transfer account"
18:05:48 <bonez44> ok...I'll tab instead of enter...bad habit...to enter...I purchased three items....two food items, and one a pizza cutter...can I split the two food items out, and mark the cutter as 'supplies' and then what do I do with the sales tax?
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18:06:51 <bonez44> I tried it with Tab instead of Enter and it still marks it as Imbalance-USD
18:08:45 <warlord> bonez44: it's marked as Imbalance because you're not setting the transfer account.
18:08:54 <bonez44> is this all (answers to my questions) spelled out clearly in the documentation??
18:09:00 <warlord> Yes
18:09:01 <bonez44> how then do I set the transfer account?
18:09:11 <bonez44> ok, I'll go back and read the documentation then....
18:10:25 <warlord> Umm... You enter it into the transfer column
18:10:33 <warlord> e.g. Expenses:Groceries or whatever.
18:10:47 <warlord> This is like GnuCash 101.
18:10:54 <warlord> (actually it's ever BEFORE GnuCash 101)
18:14:38 <bonez44> I carry a palm PDA around..is it possible to copy the documentation to my PDA...so I can read it and understand it ..during those spare moments...?
18:20:10 <dbr> if you could stand it in pdfs, you could email the writer of https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2007-March/019861.html
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19:29:03 <warlord> ''''
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21:08:39 <dbr> eek. the svn repository on my windows machine got corrupted (slightly)
21:09:00 <dbr> '#d%fine' instead of '#define'
21:09:10 <dbr> how often do things like that happen?
21:09:37 <dbr> (one instance in one file found so far...)
21:11:20 <Vino> how do you know it was subversion
21:11:55 <dbr> not necessarily caused by subversion, but the file in the repository was corrupt. I looked
21:14:08 <dbr> after I figured out what the compiler was complaining about
21:33:55 <warlord> Oh? It's corrupt on the server?
21:37:11 <dbr> no, in my local copy
21:38:09 <Vino> try checking it out again and see if it happens? or look at it in the http:// if gnucash has that set up?
21:38:22 <Vino> (assuming it's the gnucash repo)
21:39:49 <dbr> I did look on the trac source browser, didn't see the error (looked there first because my vi skills on the windows box are 'challenged'), then went to my copy and found the error
21:49:20 <warlord> dbr: could be bitrot.
21:49:22 <warlord> anyways, gotta run.
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21:54:05 <dbr> hmm. it is only one bit going from 1 to 0. bitrot sounds quite possible.
21:54:46 <jsled> Stray alpha particle...
21:55:02 <jsled> Do you live up in the mountains? :)
21:55:09 <dbr> nope
21:55:40 <dbr> more likely impending disk problems :( (old laptop)
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22:59:57 <kooz> anyone there?
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23:01:35 <kooz> hello, anyone there?
23:18:33 <jsled> kooz: maybe. please just ask your question and wait, as per the topic.
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23:36:05 <leonardof> I don't know what to do with this message:
23:36:08 <leonardof> #: ../src/gnome-utils/glade/gnc-date-format.glade.h:2
23:36:08 <leonardof> #, no-c-format
23:36:08 <leonardof> msgid "%Y-%m-%d"
23:36:31 <leonardof> Should I change it to fit my locale?
23:53:57 <chris> leonardof: That's kind of a dumb string. Just use whatever suggests a date format of the type Year-Month-Day.
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23:54:48 <leonardof> chris: should I translate it to be equal to msgid?
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23:56:32 <chris> leonardof: I don't understand the question.
23:56:58 <leonardof> chris: should I translate it to "%Y-%m-%d" or to my local date format?
23:56:59 <chris> You can translate it to whatever you wish.
23:57:54 <chris> oh, no, yo should preserve the ordering.
23:57:57 <leonardof> chris: thanks
23:58:16 <chris> np