2007-06-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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08:13:55 <xx> hi folks - i have one client who uses a different currency than I do, and I want to issue them an invoice without the "currency" value shown after each dollar value -- how might i disable the currency display on invoices?
08:18:13 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
08:18:40 <warlord> xx: I dont think you can. It's intrinsic in the way the reports display currencies, in particular "foreign" currencies.
08:22:34 <xx> hmmmm...so if i want to bill client X in another currency, what is the "right" way to do that?
08:27:00 <warlord> You'll need an Income:Sales and Assets:A/R account in the "foreign" currency, then you'll need to set the Customer's currency.. And then create the invoice, which will create it in their currency.. and then print it out.
08:27:19 <warlord> But if you're in USD and your customer is CAD, it will still say "CAD 100.00"
08:27:26 <warlord> there's no way to turn that off.
08:30:04 <xx> rats.
08:30:58 <warlord> at least not without changing the report generation code.
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08:39:52 <xx> heh - ok - this client gets a word doc invoice then :-) CAD and USD are so close now it almost doesn't matter ;-)
08:45:37 <warlord> heh
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08:54:08 <kling0n_> hello :) I have a question regarding the report feature of gnucash (ver 20.0.2).. I am exporting a report in my default currency (DKK) but tthe report shows up with the euro (€) symbol.... what am I doing wrong?
08:54:41 <kling0n_> correction: version is, of course 2.0.2
08:54:59 <kling0n_> any ideas?
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08:58:32 <warlord> kling0n_: what do you have set in your preferences for "Report Currency"?
08:58:41 <warlord> And what do you have for the account currencies/
08:58:42 <warlord> ?
08:58:50 <kling0n_> dkk
08:58:55 <kling0n_> both
08:59:20 <kling0n_> as far as I can see, *everything* is set to DKK
08:59:51 <warlord> even your locale?
09:00:20 <kling0n_> I think the budget file wascreated in an earlier version of gnucash though... (Im not abolutely positive) could that have something to do with it ?
09:00:41 <kling0n_> LANGUAGE=en_DK:en
09:00:41 <kling0n_> LANG=en_DK.UTF-8
09:00:59 <warlord> I guess I should've asked.. which report?
09:01:11 <kling0n_> cash flow
09:01:41 <kling0n_> everything seems correct (right accounts, right sums) except the currency notation
09:01:54 <kling0n_> so no convesion takes place
09:01:59 <kling0n_> conversion even
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09:02:07 <warlord> It could be a broken locale.
09:02:09 <kling0n_> it simply displays the wrong symbol
09:02:11 <kling0n_> hmm
09:02:34 <kling0n_> Gnucash reports DKK as default currency for locale... apart from that, I am unsure how to check
09:03:07 <kling0n_> should I try setting LC_MONETARY?
09:04:24 <warlord> what does LC_MONETARY say?
09:04:34 <warlord> I dont know what part of the locale sets te currency symbol.
09:04:55 <kling0n_> LC_MONETARY isn't set by default
09:05:06 <kling0n_> I thinks its thre to provide an override mechanism
09:06:15 <kling0n_> that seems to do the trick
09:06:20 <kling0n_> setenv LC_MONETARY DKK
09:06:40 <kling0n_> but I don't think the currency was included in the locale per default
09:09:54 <andi5> kling0n_: `locale -k currency_symbol` ?
09:11:21 <kling0n_> ""
09:11:23 <kling0n_> empty
09:13:41 <andi5> hm...
09:16:31 <kling0n_> on ubuntu feisty bw
09:16:32 <kling0n_> btw
09:16:48 <andi5> yes, i see it
09:17:16 <andi5> btw, the currency symbol in the account chart looks rather weird
09:18:37 <kling0n_> Im still at the feeble beginnings of using the app (small business accounting) but I like what I see so far :)
09:19:39 <kling0n_> one detail: setting LC_MONETARY means that I have to re-set the currency information btw
09:20:15 <andi5> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348701
09:21:36 <kling0n_> yup.. seems to be the csase
09:21:38 <kling0n_> case
09:21:58 <kling0n_> sorry if that means I should not have put my questin here :)
09:22:02 <kling0n_> question
09:22:20 <andi5> no, that is good.... also, subscribe to the bug and help whenever we raise more questions
09:22:36 <andi5> i will try to give it some minutes now
09:24:32 <kling0n_> it seems it's related to the empty output of locale -k
09:25:24 <andi5> btw, what report do you test?
09:25:47 <kling0n_> are there any options for integrating gnucash with a crm solution btw ? I thought it might be cool to link the backend with something like sugarcrm or similar...
09:25:56 <kling0n_> andi cash flow primarily
09:26:02 <kling0n_> but it seems to be global
09:26:03 <andi5> ok
09:26:21 <kling0n_> I changed LC_MONETARY and set locale manually for all accounts which seemed to fix it
09:30:56 <kling0n_> comment added in bugzilla
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10:25:56 <andi5> kling0n_: ping
10:27:20 <kling0n_> pin?
10:27:23 <kling0n_> pong?
10:27:26 <andi5> yep :)
10:27:28 <kling0n_> :)
10:27:33 <kling0n_> what up?
10:27:34 <andi5> still interested in fixing the problem?
10:27:38 <kling0n_> sure
10:27:40 * andi5 likes meta-asking
10:27:45 <kling0n_> limited time available though :)
10:27:49 <kling0n_> what can I do ?
10:27:54 <andi5> so... do you see weird characters for DKK in the accounts tab?
10:28:27 <kling0n_> did.. until I set the LC_MONETARY environment variable, restarted gnucash and set currency manually
10:28:43 <andi5> LANGUAGE= LANG=en_DK.UTF-8 locale -k currency_symbol ... still gives you an empty string?
10:28:48 <kling0n_> i can restat gnucash without the env var ... 2 secs
10:28:52 <andi5> it should give you that rhombus as well
10:29:09 <andi5> that is 0xa4, which is iso-8859-15 for the euro sign
10:29:20 <andi5> took me a while to find http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/report/report-system/html-style-info.scm#L291
10:29:33 <andi5> a hard coded check for this byte to replace it by &euro;
10:29:40 <kling0n_> hehe
10:29:47 <kling0n_> hard coded... eew
10:29:48 <andi5> and that is right
10:29:53 <andi5> that is correct
10:29:57 <kling0n_> yea
10:29:58 <andi5> it is just a bug in your locale
10:30:02 <andi5> report it :)
10:30:03 <kling0n_> indeed
10:30:23 * andi5 desperately searched for the conversion of this rhombus into the euro sign :)
10:30:27 <kling0n_> so... do you actually need me to do enything ?
10:30:31 <kling0n_> any
10:30:32 <andi5> see above
10:30:35 <kling0n_> apart from reporting it
10:30:39 <andi5> wait
10:30:53 <andi5> you can build your own locale as well
10:31:02 <kling0n_> hang on.. i'm in tcsh
10:31:40 <andi5> there are two problems: why is there a iso-8859-15-encoded string in an utf8-locale, and 2) why is it the euro?
10:31:49 <kling0n_> strange symbol comes out
10:31:54 <kling0n_> ¤
10:31:59 <andi5> indeed
10:32:05 <kling0n_> locale -k currency_symbol
10:32:05 <kling0n_> currency_symbol="¤"
10:32:10 <andi5> i called it rhombus, just to give it _some_ name
10:32:15 <kling0n_> yah
10:32:27 <kling0n_> ill go hunt in ubuntu bugs
10:32:55 <andi5> may you add the info i just gave you to the bug and close it as notgnome? ... that would help me :)
10:33:23 <kling0n_> hehe
10:35:03 <kling0n_> in launchpad? or in the gnucash bug db?
10:37:23 <chris> fyi, I just researched this yesterday... "¤" is actually called the currency sign in unicode.
10:37:38 <chris> I'd never heard of it before.
10:38:46 <jsled> ah, yes it is.
10:38:50 <kling0n_> only place I've ever used it is in regex replacesments of spaces in shell scripts
10:38:57 <kling0n_> replacements
10:42:51 <andi5> oh, kling0n_... have you reported already? ... chris is probably right, and there may be another problem
10:43:18 <kling0n_> havent reported yet... was looking for the package
10:43:39 <andi5> Scheme Procedure: integer->char n : Return the character at position n in the ASCII sequence. .... there is no character position 164 in ascii...
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10:47:03 <andi5> kling0n_: what is the correct symbol? "kr"?
10:47:29 <kling0n_> kr. or DKK
10:47:36 <kling0n_> I believe DKK is the most correct
10:48:01 <kling0n_> It doesn't change that the locale should include the locale currency settings of DKK though
10:48:12 <kling0n_> even though there might be stuff you guys need to take care of too
10:48:30 <andi5> i would say, the locale should probably be changed to kr then.... i admit that it was NOT encoded as iso-8859-15 (urxvt does some nifty/irritating things with iso, that is why i thought that would be possible)
10:48:58 <kling0n_> seems that one issue is how gnucahs handles "default" currency values (perhaps a secondary lookup on locae nmae would be in order) but the danish language pack should set currencies correctly nonetheless no?
10:49:19 <warlord> why should gnucash try to be smarter than your locale?
10:49:37 <warlord> it's not gnucash's job to know that your locale is broken ;)
10:49:53 <kling0n_> warlord: seems to me it should be a catch mechanism when locale has no currency
10:50:13 <warlord> mmm.. perhaps.
10:50:31 <andi5> to rephrase the problem on gnucash's side: the correct utf8 string "¤" (2 bytes) is checked against (integer->char 164) which is rather cruel
10:50:43 <kling0n_> something like: if en_DA does not provide me with anything useful gfor currency, ill try looking in similar locales (i.e. da_DK.UTF-8 da_DK.ISO8859-1) etc
10:51:11 <kling0n_> might not do it automatically couls simply prompt user to provide a manual currency locale
10:51:14 <warlord> how is gnucash supposed to know that en_DA == da_DK?
10:51:17 <kling0n_> s/couls/could/
10:51:26 <andi5> i say NO.... the problem with euro actually stems from trying to be smart (maybe some display bug from some years ago)
10:51:33 <warlord> are you sure it shouldn't be en_DK?
10:52:05 <kling0n_> i'm using en_DK thats the locale that spawned this issue for me in the first place :)
10:52:23 <kling0n_> but DK is standard denotation for danish
10:52:38 <warlord> kling0n_: I was responding to: <kling0n_> something like: if en_DA does not provide me with anything useful gfor currency, ill try looking in similar locales (i.e. da_DK.UTF-8 da_DK.ISO8859-1) etc
10:52:39 <kling0n_> I can see how it might be problem in e_GB en_AU en_US etc though
10:52:42 <andi5> kling0n_: go to the html-style-info.scm file and replace 164 by 165... then you are done
10:52:45 <kling0n_> might not be so hot an idea after all
10:55:59 <andi5> maybe we should just remove the conversion of "¤" to "&euro;"? .... any idea what that might break?
10:56:28 <warlord> andi5: no idea. Who put that code in? (I bet cstim did?)
10:56:40 <andi5> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/7200 yes
10:56:48 <warlord> heh
10:56:51 <warlord> ask him?
10:57:03 <warlord> I suspect it was to deal with gtkthml-1 and utf-8 locales.
10:58:18 <kling0n_> warlord,andi5 : how about implementing a case catch so that if the locale returns "¤" as currency, you simply ask the user what he wants to use ?
10:58:24 <kling0n_> (which locale) that is
10:59:24 <warlord> And do that every time gnucash starts? (perhaps caching the previous result and using it as the default for subsequent queries?)
10:59:41 <andi5> i do not think that is a good idea... just fix the locale :-) ... but that is just me
10:59:54 * warlord thinks the locale should get fixed...
11:00:02 <warlord> But... Perhaps gnucash can warn the user that their locale is broken.
11:03:26 <kling0n_> yeah.. something to improve the user experience from simply staring dumbly at the screen and ditching the app or trying to copy-paste into something else
11:03:51 <kling0n_> 99% of users wont even know what the locale settings are
11:04:12 <kling0n_> at least my mom wouldn't (I use her as baseline)
11:04:17 <kling0n_> :)
11:05:39 <andi5> that is why i strongly encourage you to talk to the ubuntu drivers ... they claim to be user-friendly, so it is "their job" to fix/file it ;-)
11:07:39 <kling0n_> indeedy ... but that does not change the fact other distributiuons could eb broken
11:08:00 <andi5> i am not here to fix the world :-)
11:08:18 <kling0n_> and while it is indeed a broken locale and the responsibility of the distro I should think that you'd prefer to have happy users no?
11:08:41 <andi5> do you want a true answer? :-)
11:08:47 <kling0n_> after all the only case the user would see a warning is the case that will otherwise result in a poor user experience for them
11:08:51 <kling0n_> hehe
11:09:01 <kling0n_> you *don't* want happy users?
11:09:09 <andi5> you know grey, do not you? ;-)
11:09:57 <kling0n_> grey?
11:10:12 <andi5> yeah, it is _between_ black and white
11:10:19 <kling0n_> hehe
11:10:40 <kling0n_> gnucash -- the grey experience?
11:11:11 <warlord> LOL
11:11:16 <warlord> Or the Red Experience.
11:11:21 <kling0n_> grey's economy?
11:11:38 <kling0n_> hehe that one's true for my personal business at least :)
11:11:54 <andi5> kling0n_: from my point of view ¤ is a lot better than showing the user some question / notifications about weird things he does not unterstand nonetheless
11:12:09 <andi5> show euros is bad, of course
11:12:31 <andi5> anyway, i mean
11:14:08 <andi5> anyway, time is up
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11:23:01 <chris> I'm only half-following, but I'm not sure I can imagine a case where gnucash should be displaying the locale's currency sign.
11:24:13 <chris> If we know what the currency is, we should display the ISO code for it, which isn't from the locale, and if we don't know the currency, we shouldn't assume it uses the locale's currency sign.
11:24:32 <chris> Or am I missing something.
11:32:57 <chris> Or, I suppose, if we think we're really smart, we can maintain our own map from currencies into currency symbols, but I don't see how the locale helps with that.
11:37:29 <hampton> Please, no. We have enough trouble just keeping track of currency changes, much less trying to keep track of currency symbols.
11:37:29 <gncbot> hampton: Sent 2 days, 12 hours, and 14 minutes ago: <warlord> having connectivity issues?
11:39:35 <warlord> chris: we already do show the locale currency symbol.
11:39:47 <warlord> E.g., we show $ or €
11:40:20 <hampton> I think we should use the locale currency symbol if available, then fall back to the three letter currency code. I don't think gnucash should do any more than that.
11:40:31 <warlord> that's reasonable to me.
11:40:56 <warlord> in this case, though, the locale is broken.
11:41:12 <hampton> Maybe if there is no currency symbol we can print a one time warning to contact the distribution to get the locale fixed.
11:42:21 <hampton> Broken locales are definitely not our problem. We need a general solution to that case, not a locale specific solution.
11:42:59 <warlord> oh, agreed..
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11:50:18 <SillyZ> Greetings
11:50:29 <SillyZ> Oh ive got one for you folks over here at gnu-cash
11:51:13 <SillyZ> Imported a .qif file from my financial institution and it reversed all the transactions! all deposits were made into charges, and vice-versa
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12:13:28 <warlord> hampton: can you take a look at the gnucash-user email "Trouble Printing Cheques"?
12:15:42 <hampton> I can, but like you said that's all external to gnucash. Does report printing still use gnomeprint? That may be the difference.
12:19:46 <warlord> it probably does
12:23:19 <chris> From what I learned yesterday about currency signs, there are probably a lot of people who would prefer to use the commodity's ISO code (like gnucash does for all non-local commodities) rather than their locale's currency sign.
12:24:02 <chris> Many of the currency signs have just fallen out of normal use.
12:25:40 <chris> It might be nice to at least have the option to not treat the locale currency specially.
12:30:08 <chris> Perhaps one way to do that is to just run gnucash in an environment with no locale set.
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12:42:50 <warlord> But if you have no locale then it wont be translated.
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21:31:43 <paolob> hi warlord-afk
21:31:43 <gncbot> paolob: Sent 1 day, 22 hours, and 57 minutes ago: <warlord> just try to file a bug report. I know the issue, but please explain it well
21:32:07 <paolob> hi jsled
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