2007-05-19 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:31:11 <warlord> good morning, all.
09:38:46 <administrator> hello warlord
09:38:48 <administrator> Good Morning !
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09:46:08 <warlord> hi
09:48:08 <administrator> how are you warlord!
09:48:09 <administrator> What are you ding so ?
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09:52:13 <warlord> I'm still groggy. Just woke up a bit ago.
09:52:25 <warlord> So, just relaxing.. Planning out my day. Doing a little research..
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10:01:57 <warlord> Okay, time to head out. BBL.
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13:16:52 <warlord> * sighs *
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14:20:53 <hampton> what's up warlord
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15:13:29 <administrator> hello to all !
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15:19:58 <roxy_> Hi, anyone around to give me some how to on the budget thing ?
15:20:47 <roxy_> I want to know how much is spend says 100€/ week on car . I was hoping to do it with budget.
15:21:18 <roxy_> I created a budget tab, with weekly column.
15:22:06 <roxy_> and in each cell put 100€. Clicking on estimate didn't do anything.
15:23:15 <roxy_> I thought it would see how much was spend on car a week and make the difference with 100 and print it or something.
15:29:18 <warlord> hiya hampton ... my new computer still wont startup. At first I thought it was the power supply, but then I've tried two other PSes.. At least now the CPU Fan starts up, but the video doesn't come up.
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15:36:14 <administrator> hey andi5 is here nice
15:36:24 <andi5> hello administrator
15:37:03 <administrator> andi5 i have waited for you to ask you something about booking the tax in gnucash
15:37:21 <andi5> i doubt i will be of any help, but just ask
15:37:51 <roxy_> 15.2.1. Choose Which Accounts To Budget For
15:38:20 <roxy_> doesn't explain how select only few account. Do I have to have all account in the budget report ?
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15:39:14 <administrator> in germany switzerland and austria companys can book taxes on two ways.
15:39:16 <administrator> The one way is called "nach vereinbarten Entgelten" and the other way to book taxes is "nach vereinbarten Entgelten"
15:39:17 <administrator> Its called also IStversteuerung and sollversteuerung
15:39:19 <administrator> http://www.google.ch/search?q=istversteuerung&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
15:39:37 <andi5> roxy_: did you check the report options? it is on the first tab, i think
15:39:56 <administrator> sorry the other way is called "nach vereinahmten Entgelten"
15:40:21 <roxy_> andi5: found it, thanks
15:41:14 <administrator> If i am not wrong gnucash allow companys only to book the taxes the one way and that is the "nach vereinbarten Entgelten"
15:42:12 <administrator> that mean if a company use gnucash the the company has to paid the taxes before she can earn the moneys from the customer
15:43:03 <administrator> she has to give the money to the government before she get the money from the customer
15:45:02 <administrator> If Gnucash provide the Possibility to book the Taxes the other Way "Nach vereinnahmten Entgelten" then the company have not to paid the tax money to the government till the customer has paid his invoice
15:46:08 <andi5> so far i cannot see a single question mark
15:47:05 <administrator> the question is how can i book the taxes in gnucash the other Wayaround still using the Businnes Feautures ?
15:47:20 <warlord> administrator: what do you mean, other way around?
15:49:57 <administrator> well thats the question that i try to solve all the time today !
15:49:58 <administrator> As i know the tax has to be booked at this time the invoice is paid and not before.
15:50:24 <warlord> OH! You want real cash-based accounting?
15:50:30 <warlord> You can't do that with the business features.
15:50:36 <warlord> (currently)
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15:54:13 <administrator> If you have a company that has by the government the rule to book the finance the other way around (booking the tax not at the time the invoice is created more booking the tax the invoice is paid) this is normaly 80%-100% of all small companys that tharged gnucash you dont have any choice then.
15:54:15 <administrator> My Company is such a Company that has to book his Taxes at the Time the Invoice is paid and not before
15:58:14 <warlord> administrator: Like I said, gnucash currently does not support cash-based accounting from the business features.
15:59:20 <administrator> Thats really pity.
15:59:50 <warlord> administrator: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95700
16:04:15 <administrator> It looks like your question was not answered. I want only to say you that the above bug exactly describe my problem and show that not only in switzerland, germany, austria this tax booking possibility exist. It exist also in other Countries like Australia.
16:05:43 <andi5> ah... this #f <-> '() change will bite us .... i feel it stronger again :(
16:06:25 <warlord> andi5: Yep!
16:06:37 <warlord> administrator: well, over the years it HAS been answered. reload the bug page.
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16:06:49 <warlord> I'm just pointing out to you that we know about the deficiency.
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16:08:04 <administrator> Good.
16:08:06 <administrator> Reload the bug page does this mean i should post to the Bug Report ?
16:08:23 <andi5> refresh with your browser
16:09:05 <warlord> administrator: no.
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16:14:09 <administrator> i see that this bug is since the year 2002.
16:14:11 <administrator> Thats more than 5 Years for resolving such a critical bug.
16:14:13 <administrator> It looks like this lack of feature will stay a long time till it get solved.
16:14:14 <administrator> Whats exactly the problem if i can ask?
16:14:15 <administrator> maybe you can exactly describe what gnucash has to book so it can book the taxes the other way?
16:14:17 <administrator> I need this knoweledge becouse i am still a little unsure about the right booking methods
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16:16:18 <andi5> administrator: this bug exists since the first release of xaccountant, it already took several years to get it FILED, even this CRITICAL enhancement bug ;-)
16:20:26 <administrator> well filled that bug over several years dont mean that this feauture is not needed for every small company that wont pay tax money before they earn it. For small companys liquid money or better staying liquid is everything. I belive the most of the people how tryed gnucash for businnes has deleted it after they saw that this feauture is missed. Posting to a Bug report is not somethnig that...
16:20:27 <administrator> ...every ceo of a company knwo.
16:25:50 <warlord> andi5: Not really.. This lack-of-feature has only existed since 1.8 when the business features were released.
16:25:57 <warlord> It's not a bug. It's just lack of functionality.
16:26:10 <andi5> well, business features lacked before 1.8 then
16:26:21 <warlord> true, but that's different.
16:26:36 <warlord> and administrator I run my Cash-based company's accounting on gnucash just fine.
16:26:44 <warlord> BUT.... I dont collect (or pay) taxes.
16:29:28 <warlord> But to answer your question, administrator... I dont KNOW what gnucash has to book. That's the problem. Let's say you do work for $100 (plus tax), where $80 is taxed at rate1 and $20 is taxed at rate2. Now, what happens if the customer pays you $50. How do you apply that payment to income and taxes?
16:33:34 <administrator> I will try just now to contact my Finance Suporter how work as a accountant in switzerland.
16:33:36 <administrator> The Last two time he was not at home.
16:33:37 <administrator> He can answer every finance question with his knoweledge.
16:33:39 <administrator> From my side of view the only problem is the date of Tax Booking.
16:33:41 <administrator> One moment please
16:42:18 * warlord isn't going anywhere..
16:42:32 <warlord> (well, except crazy from his non-working mobo)
16:42:43 <administrator> warlord: i have now a answer to your question especially for switzerland.
16:42:45 <administrator> The answer in german language can be found here.
16:42:46 <administrator> It stay ther thay if you have such a invoice you have to write in this invoice how the Tax then will be splitted
16:42:48 <administrator> http://www.estv.admin.ch/d/mwst/themen/rechnung/akonto.htm
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16:45:56 <administrator> wait a minute maybe this site is also in english language
16:47:13 <administrator> no just in the languages that are spoken in switzerland french, german, italian.
16:47:25 <warlord> Doesn't help me.
16:47:25 <administrator> pity
16:47:42 <warlord> And it's not a question of what to write on the invoice.. It's a question of how to Process Payment inside gnucash. What does GNUCASH do?
16:49:50 <administrator> Well first has the question to be answered can gnucash book such a split payment. If i am not wrong gnucash con only the hole invoice at once book. Thats the first thing.
16:49:52 <administrator> I itslef and i am sure a lot of others dont need at the moment this feauture
16:50:22 <administrator> Booking only a part of the invoice
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16:51:26 <administrator> If this is right then we only now need to concentrate us on the booking of the tax at the time the invoice is marked as fully paidIt easy
16:51:37 <warlord> Programatically we can make gnucash do anything we want it to do.
16:54:31 <administrator> The question is only do we need at the moment really this feature for booking invoices that are not 100% paid. I itself think we need as fist to concentrate at the feauture that nearly every small company is needing. And that is booking the Tax at the time the Invoice is marked as paid. That should not be really such hard.
16:55:25 <warlord> administrator: hey, send in the patch!
16:58:47 <administrator> i will do that if you would provide gnucash to be build inside anjuta by using the gnome build framework ;-)
16:58:48 <administrator> maybe andi5 can do that.
16:58:50 <administrator> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=8e9a4c730705191031l7fb9eb6ct1231cb2ddd6c56fe%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=anjuta-list
16:59:04 <andi5> administrator: huh?
16:59:46 <warlord> Hey, that's not my job.
17:02:03 <andi5> i doubt any of the current devs use anjuta for development... and we are using pretty standard tools.... that is anjuta's responsibility (if they want that feature)
17:02:26 <warlord> Yeah, the build works quite well as-is.
17:02:35 <warlord> Adding build dependencies is just.. wrong.
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17:03:47 <andi5> http://groups.google.ch/group/gnucash/web/how-to-build-gnucash-from-the-sources """not more than 5 minutes to build GnuCash from sources"""? .... wow, i need a new computer :-)
17:04:32 <warlord> heh
17:05:09 <andi5> administrator: sorry, scratching the surface of gnucash is only my hobby and i try to do the things that make fun for me...
17:06:13 <administrator> in the anjuta manual there is described how to import sources that use autogen configure make.
17:06:15 <administrator> However exactly this method fail to import gnucash as a project.
17:06:16 <administrator> http://www.anjuta.org/documents/C/anjuta-manual/anjuta-manual.html#project-management
17:06:38 <cortana> it takes 15 minutes on debian's amd64 buildd
17:06:49 <cortana> and almost 18 hours on m68k :)
17:06:55 <andi5> lol
17:07:45 <warlord> administrator: We do more than just "autogen; configure; make"
17:08:12 <warlord> But again, it's not our job to fit into your tools.
17:08:22 <warlord> But it's also not our job to scratch your own itch.
17:09:02 <andi5> ubuntu amd64 build machines: crested (29 mins) vs. yellow (22 mins) ... i have always liked yellow :-)
17:09:54 <cortana> :)
17:11:38 <warlord> I prefer purple, but my amd64 system mobo appears to be DoA
17:12:47 <andi5> DoA?
17:12:53 <warlord> Dead on Arrival
17:12:57 <andi5> ahh :)
17:13:04 <andi5> :(
17:13:50 <andi5> pidgin seems to use the tango smilies... they are new (i really liked the gaim ones), but i start to love them as well... i need more smilies
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17:16:33 <administrator> well it looks like that i will be writting the next how to with the name "How to build GnuCash with Anjuta".
17:16:35 <administrator> is here really nobody that use anjuta for development ?
17:16:57 <warlord> Nope.
17:16:59 <andi5> i just installed it, let me try it out
17:17:19 <warlord> andi5: I prefer the old gaim smiles. :( Certainly for Yahoo.
17:17:33 <andi5> THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL FEATURE.... warlord, any idea what that my mean?
17:17:50 <warlord> andi5: context?
17:18:02 <andi5> $ anjuta -> import wizard -> first intro page
17:18:19 <administrator> which version do you have ?
17:18:27 <andi5> 1.2.4a
17:18:41 <administrator> you use the very very old version
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17:19:15 <administrator> you need 2.1.3
17:19:32 <andi5> oh
17:20:01 <administrator> do you install with apt-get if yes i can give you a instruktion how to install this version easy
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17:20:24 <andi5> is-a-geek.org?
17:21:01 <administrator> no is the instruction from the main developer of anjuta posted in the devel list
17:21:10 <administrator> called naba
17:21:12 <andi5> just give me the link
17:21:21 <administrator> one moment
17:23:12 <administrator> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1179235368.5839.10.camel%40localhost.localdomain&forum_name=anjuta-devel
17:26:43 <administrator> from my side every developer should use anjuta for developing GNUCash
17:26:45 <administrator> It has extremly a lot of Plugins for SVN,CVS, alot of Powerfull Debugers Tracers and so on.
17:26:47 <administrator> Just look at this pictures here. Thats make happy to develop something.
17:26:48 <administrator> http://anjuta.sourceforge.net/screen-shots
17:27:27 <andi5> administrator: www.emacswiki.org
17:28:20 <andi5> grrr... i need to rebuild the package for amd64
17:30:02 <andi5> administrator: does it support git?
17:31:57 <administrator> One Moment
17:39:41 <andi5> too much work (he just does not distribute everything needed in an easy way) and too long a moment.... </anjuta2> for now
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17:45:13 <administrator> here is the picture from anjuta running on my system
17:45:15 <administrator> http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1644/anjutajw7.png
17:45:16 <administrator> You see the Plugins fro CVS, Patch and so on
17:46:19 <administrator> creatings diffs uploding them and so on with cvs subversion and so on is no problem
17:46:36 <andi5> i asked about git
17:49:28 <administrator> sourceforge is overloaded at the moment. extremly slow answers. the answer will come in the next seconds
17:50:03 <administrator> HOO !! 500 - Internal Server Error
17:51:29 <warlord> Yay! Go SF!
17:51:55 <andi5> someone surprised?
17:53:02 <warlord> Not me
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17:55:25 <hampton> I just imported gnucash into anjuta and am compiling without any problems so far.
17:56:11 <andi5> hampton: does fc7 have batteries, i.e. anjuta2, included?
17:56:40 <hampton> batteries?
17:56:46 <andi5> forget that :)
17:56:54 <hampton> I'm running anjuta 2.1.0
17:57:40 <hampton> anjuta has..... issues.
17:57:53 <administrator> HEYYYY Hampton tell me how so i can start hacking on gnucash
17:58:21 <hampton> gnome-typing-monitor just kicked in and blanked my screen. now the anjuta messages window is blank.
17:58:45 <hampton> All I did was File->New->Project
17:59:29 <hampton> Project from existing sources
18:00:15 <administrator> with this instruction "File.>New->Project" you make only a empty project in anjuta
18:00:54 <hampton> File->New->Project from existing sources
18:01:33 <andi5> administrator: maybe you tried to import from some IDE then?
18:01:34 <hampton> I then imported a set of existing sources already checked out from svn
18:03:50 <administrator> Ah okay in this case this should work.
18:03:52 <administrator> What for a folder do you have selected for import the project. I have also selected a folder that i have checkedout with svn
18:03:53 <administrator> Loading this folder with the svn plugin in anjuta works great but importing the project fails
18:04:28 <administrator> and if you say it compile do you really mean it compile the hole thing
18:04:49 <hampton> I don't have the plugin, and yes it appeared to compile everything.
18:05:09 <administrator> Woooow thats at least something
18:05:13 <andi5> i am confused... do you want to create or import a project?
18:05:15 <hampton> Anjuta blanks the output window once the 'install project' completes. so I can't tell what it actually did.
18:06:15 <hampton> It did compile and install successfully. I can run the resulting gnucash program.
18:06:30 <hampton> And now, I'm off to meet a friend.
18:06:45 <andi5> see you, hampton
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18:07:55 <administrator> what does mean hampton with "i can run gnucash"
18:08:17 <administrator> does he mean i can run gnucash without any problems
18:08:25 <andi5> i guess so
18:10:02 <administrator> inside of anjuta or outside of anjuta that will be also nic to know
18:10:23 <andi5> that is obvious, is not it?
18:10:43 <andi5> at least i think so.. :) ....
18:12:59 <administrator> well the possibility is very hight that he has run gnucash inside anjuta. However it could be also that after the probles he has only try to start the builded packages from the command line
18:14:10 <warlord> Actually, I find it unlikely that he ran it inside anjuta, unless anjuta knows how to set the proper environment variables that gnucash looks for.
18:15:55 <administrator> For me the time is comming to say goodnight.
18:15:56 <administrator> I will try to build Gnucash inside Anjuta in the next days and then try to implement the missing Tax Feauture.
18:15:58 <administrator> With anjuta and the implemented powerfull debuger and tracer that should be no problem.
18:16:13 <administrator> goodnight
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18:18:54 <hampton> gncbot: tell administrator I built gnucash within anjuta. I ran the resulting gnucash from the command line.
18:18:54 <gncbot> hampton: The operation succeeded.
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19:21:59 <andi5> gncbot: tell hampton I would feel better if you could check r16102:16104 for me :-)
19:21:59 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
19:22:30 <andi5> bye
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20:04:07 <warlord> hey Wilddev
20:05:14 <Wilddev> hey warlord
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20:16:45 <Wilddev> warlord: so u think that the distcheck will work?
20:16:52 <warlord> yep
20:17:23 <Wilddev> kewl
20:17:37 <Wilddev> gonna go to a movie but Ill try to build it later tonite
20:17:43 <warlord> ok
20:18:02 <warlord> Just remember to announce that the windows build will be available shortly thereafter.
20:18:11 <Wilddev> ok
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22:53:05 <hampton> gncbot: tell andi5 those changes look reasonable
22:53:05 <gncbot> hampton: The operation succeeded.
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23:50:13 <warlord> Wilddev: Oooh, 2.1.2. Cool. :)
23:50:47 <Wilddev> yeah
23:50:53 <warlord> Yay. Thanks.
23:50:57 <Wilddev> just need to compile the tarball
23:51:07 <warlord> Ok.