2007-05-16 GnuCash IRC logs
00:18:03 <Hydroxide> warlord: I think I tracked down what the problem is with my return of capital situation, and I think it's a bug in gnucash
00:19:34 <Hydroxide> warlord: if I do two transactions between mutual fund account A and some unrelated USD-denominated account B, one of which is a debit to A and a credit to B for $3 involving zero shares, and the other of which is a debit to B and a credit to A for the same amount also with zero shares, then....
00:19:52 <Hydroxide> the value of mutual fund *increases by $6*
00:20:16 <Hydroxide> s/mutual fund/mutual fund A/
00:21:27 <Hydroxide> warlord: whatever the right behavior is, that isn't it
00:21:52 <warlord> HUH?
00:22:16 <Hydroxide> is my example clear, or are you just as baffled by that behavior as I am?
00:22:25 <warlord> No, your example isn't clear.
00:22:26 <Hydroxide> s/clear/unclear/
00:22:57 <Hydroxide> ok, I have a mutual fund account A and some other account B (type doesn't matter but it's not a securities account, just standard USD denomination)
00:23:08 <Hydroxide> I go to the register for mutual fund account A
00:24:02 <Hydroxide> I put in a transaction where I specify 0 shares, 0 price, and credit it for $3. This may seem weird but it's how you yourself advised someone on gnucash-user to handle a return of capital transaction like mine in January 2005, and it does make sense given what that transaction is
00:24:16 <Hydroxide> the corresponding debit goes to account B
00:24:47 <Hydroxide> then, I put in another transaction to exactly reverse that: I put in 0 shares, 0 price, and debit account A for $3, with the corresponding credit going to account B
00:25:00 <Hydroxide> then I look at the balance sheet report, and glance at the balance listed for account A
00:25:19 <Hydroxide> it has *increased by $6* after both of these transactions relative to its value before
00:25:47 <warlord> "credit it" mean "sell", meaning "-$3"?
00:26:28 <Hydroxide> credit meaning the "sell" column if you're using informal labels. I am using formal labels since I've taken an accounting course, but I verified that for stock/fund accounts "sell" == "credit" and "buy" == "debit"
00:27:02 <Hydroxide> $3 shows up in the sell column for one transaction in the register and $3 in the buy column for the other, with both shares and price blank
00:27:03 <warlord> just wanted to make sure we were using the same terminology..
00:27:13 <Hydroxide> but the value increases by $6 on the balance sheet
00:27:27 <warlord> I think that's a bug in the balance sheet.
00:27:33 <Hydroxide> this is gnucash 2.0.2; if the behavior has changed in 2.0.5 or an unstable version then please let me know
00:27:51 <warlord> I dont think it's been fixed in 2.0.2.
00:27:54 <Hydroxide> well, I don't think so, because it explains all the mismatches I've been getting
00:27:57 <warlord> It might've been fixed in unstable.
00:28:15 <warlord> Is the balance in the CoA correct?
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00:31:16 <Hydroxide> warlord: hard to say. the number of shares has been correct everywhere regardless, but the CoA only calculates a USD total if there are entries in the price editor, and it just uses those, not the transaction data
00:31:35 <Hydroxide> warlord: so, I guess it's neither correct nor incorrect, just calculated differently
00:33:40 <warlord> True... but a change of cost basis doesn't affect current value..
00:34:14 <warlord> So I dont know what you're expecting to see.
00:34:58 <Hydroxide> it's not a change of cost basis
00:35:04 <Hydroxide> or, rather it is
00:35:04 <Hydroxide> but
00:35:37 <Hydroxide> ok, what I'm doing (in keeping with your 2005 January instructions) is transferring the dollar amount ($3 in this example) from the mutual fund account to a cash account
00:36:16 <Hydroxide> what I want it to do is leave the number of shares in the mutual fund unchanged, continue to calculate the balance correctly based on current price on that day and going forward, and add $3 to the cash account balance
00:36:25 <Hydroxide> somehow, though, BOTH accounts are increasing in value
00:36:36 <Hydroxide> although not in number of shares in the case of the mutual fund account
00:36:36 <warlord> Why are you entering in two transactions?
00:36:57 <Hydroxide> that was to debug the misbehavior more. I'm not really except for testing purposes
00:37:26 <Hydroxide> it still misbehaves with only one transaction, in that the balance sheet value for the mutual fund increases by the dollar amount regardless of whether I enter it as a debit/buy or as a credit/sell
00:37:47 <Hydroxide> that's why I tested with two opposite transactions
00:39:58 <warlord> Hydroxide: That's a bug in the Balance Sheet -- it's using an abs() when it shouldn't.
00:42:22 <Hydroxide> warlord: ah, good to know. the bug has ramifications in other reports as well, such as trial balance, and probably other things that get the balance of an account using whatever that method is
00:42:36 <Hydroxide> warlord: is this code broken in one place or duplicated throughout several points in the code base?
00:42:48 <warlord> I dont know.
00:43:00 <warlord> I haven't looked at the proposed patches. Check out Bugzilla?
00:43:09 <Hydroxide> ok. bug number?
00:43:20 <warlord> no clue
00:43:59 <warlord> (if I had a bug# don't you think I would've said it?)
00:45:12 <Hydroxide> sorry
00:45:30 <Hydroxide> I just inferred from your phrase "proposed patches" that it had already been reported
00:45:34 <Hydroxide> maybe I should report it?
00:47:36 <warlord> It HAS been reported. I just dont have a bug# handy, and you can search bugzilla just as easily as I can.
00:48:27 <Hydroxide> I am doing so, don't worry
00:48:36 <warlord> no worries. :)
00:48:43 <Hydroxide> just hard to identify which one is the applicable bug
00:49:17 <warlord> Search on reports.
00:51:00 <Hydroxide> found it: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131623
00:51:40 <warlord> There ya go. Fixed in 2.1.1
00:52:01 <Hydroxide> yep
00:52:22 <Hydroxide> it's a shame I have to use an unstable version that isn't in Debian yet, but this is worth it. I'm glad it's fixed.
00:52:52 <Hydroxide> I'm also curious about Mike Alexander's trading account patches alluded to in that bug report
00:53:10 <warlord> It's (IMHO) a horrible idea.
00:54:03 <Hydroxide> well, it might be, but I don't have enough info to form an opinion. can you point me to somewhere he's discussed these? (before you point me to gnucash-devel, I'm about to check there for March/April/May)
00:54:06 <warlord> It's basically one way to force double-entry for all transactions in all currencies/commodities.. It basically tracks UNREALIZED gains in a "physical" account.
00:54:18 <Hydroxide> ah
00:54:20 <warlord> It's on -devel.. Probably before then.
00:55:09 <Hydroxide> hm, so it creates unrealized gain accounts. that's no different than the Degas painting example in the manual
00:55:31 <Hydroxide> not inherently horrible in all cases at first glance
00:58:44 <Hydroxide> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-March/020074.html et seq.
00:59:18 <Hydroxide> although that's Chris Shoemaker not Mike Alexander
01:04:24 <Hydroxide> correction, it seems to be both of them and Peter Selinger. very interesting discussion.
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01:05:26 <warlord> yeah, that's it
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01:07:44 <warlord> hiya hampton
01:08:53 <Hydroxide> warlord: the new accounts they're referring to do make sense, and having taken an accounting course I can confirm that unrealized gains, even though they're not realized, are income (and additional value under the asset) to the extent you're tracking them at all before sale, just like in the Degas painting example
01:09:21 <warlord> That's fine, but I dont think they belong in the CoA.
01:09:45 <warlord> And I dont think those additional splits in the transaction make sense from a UI perspective.
01:10:18 <Hydroxide> why don't they make sense in the CoA? unrealised gains are part of your assets and your income, although again not for tax purposes in most countries
01:10:33 <Hydroxide> I think any professional accountant would include them
01:10:45 <hampton> hi warlord. just switching computers. off to bed now.
01:10:54 <warlord> good night!
01:11:08 <Hydroxide> money is recognized as soon as you have an unrestricted right to it under the accrual method of accounting
01:11:23 <hampton> I want to try those changes at some point.... aren't their usage all keyed off a preference? istr mike saying that.
01:11:46 <Hydroxide> and, aside from issues of illiquidity of the given securities or commodities, you do have an unresrticted right to unrealized gains
01:12:05 <Hydroxide> hampton: he does say that in the thread, yes, though I doubt having it as a preference makes sense once it's finalized and going to be in a stable version
01:12:23 <Hydroxide> hampton: is this in the mainline 2.1.x branch?
01:13:02 <warlord> nope, the patches haven't been committed anywhere.
01:13:18 <hampton> I thought they had been committed to trunk
01:13:29 <Hydroxide> warlord: also, if you go to your brokerage account website and look at their breakdown of the positions you hold, they will include unrealized gains in your total balance, but break them down separately from your cost basis in some detail view
01:13:32 <warlord> I didt think so.
01:13:53 <Hydroxide> warlord: (the exact details depend on the broker in question, but pretty much all of them provide that info separately)
01:14:11 <Hydroxide> warlord: (although not all of them present it accurately in all situations, but that's another matter)
01:14:28 <warlord> hampton: gnucash already does that.. Turn on the "total in report currency" column and you'll see current value of your holdings.
01:14:54 <warlord> I'm not saying that gnucash shouldn't maintain that information.
01:15:08 <warlord> I just think that having the unrealized gains as "accounts" is the wrong model.
01:15:14 <warlord> (from a UI perspective)
01:15:53 <warlord> If the "accounts" (and all splits into those accounts) are always hidden from the user, then that appeases my UI issues.
01:16:38 <hampton> off to bed for me...
01:17:30 <Hydroxide> warlord: well, it definitely needs to be visible to a user, and users need to be able to manually make changes between the unrealized gains and the main commodity account
01:17:48 <warlord> And why is that?
01:18:13 <warlord> note that it's not keeping track of gains.. It's just keeping track of your number of shares.
01:18:14 <Hydroxide> warlord: for which part?
01:18:23 <warlord> All of it.
01:18:28 <Hydroxide> warlord: well, isn't the proposed changes keeping track of gains?
01:18:33 <warlord> No.
01:18:49 <warlord> It keeps track of the count of each commodity.
01:19:29 <Hydroxide> warlord: that seems very explicitly to be its purpose
01:19:36 <warlord> In so doing it keeps track of potential gains/losses when commodities change values. Go read the thread.
01:19:54 <warlord> I'm too tired to explain it right now.
01:22:15 <Hydroxide> I'm reading the thread, and their responses to your concerns do make sense to me. it is more proper to make this information available to users
01:22:48 <Hydroxide> they're also not proposing anything mandatory, according to https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-April/020436.html and https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-April/020439.html
01:24:54 <warlord> It's not a question of mandatory.. I DO want to see gnucash keep track of it all, but I want it all hidden under the covers.
01:25:12 <Hydroxide> it shouldn't be mandatorily hidden from users
01:25:23 <warlord> For example, when I buy 10 shares of stock for $100 ($10/share).. I just want to see a simple two-split transaction. I dont want this turned into a 4-split transaction.
01:25:34 <Hydroxide> I don't think that's what would happen
01:25:39 <Hydroxide> but, I'll wait until I try it
01:25:41 <warlord> It's EXACTLY what would happen.
01:25:49 <Hydroxide> the impression I get is that it's in trunk as a preference, but I could be wrong
01:26:24 <warlord> You credit checking $100, debit Trading:USD $100, debit the stock account 10SHRS, and credit Trading:SHRS with 10SHRS
01:26:31 <warlord> It's not in trunk.
01:28:00 <Hydroxide> do you know where I can try it out?
01:29:01 <warlord> Not offhand, no. I dont know if mta's sent the patches.
01:29:39 <Hydroxide> well, my immediate problem has been fixed in 2.1.1, and I think that's enough for my purposes
01:30:03 <Hydroxide> it's not at all obvious to me that Mike's patches will change anything for buying stock whose price is denominated in your single currency
01:30:18 <Hydroxide> it seems to be all about buying stock or doing other transactions in currencies besides your main currency
01:31:32 <Hydroxide> however to really say that for sure I'll want to read Peter Selinger's tutorials carefully
01:31:36 <Hydroxide> which will probably happen another day
01:32:49 <warlord> Please do.
01:33:39 <Hydroxide> I will indeed.
01:33:56 <Hydroxide> for now, time to download and install 2.1.1.
01:34:46 <warlord> enjoy
01:34:53 <Hydroxide> thanks
01:43:48 <warlord> Good night
01:43:50 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
01:46:28 <Hydroxide> 'night
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10:11:33 <chris> warlord: IIRC, I'm actually the one who added the check for POTFILES.skip files.
10:11:54 <warlord> did you? I thought I did. But eh.
10:12:17 <chris> and it was just an attempt to prevent accidentally distrubuting an untranslated file.
10:12:34 <chris> or distributing, either.
10:13:47 <warlord> did we actually have a problem with distributing an untranslated, manually skipped file?
10:14:08 <chris> If newer intltools are making smarter checks, we can probably just remove it. Especially if whoever rolls the tarball has newer tools.
10:14:58 <chris> well, if you remember way back... once upon a time... we used to manually maintain the list of translated files.
10:15:26 <chris> that was a PITA, so I switched to the automatically generated list.
10:15:46 <warlord> right, calling 'make-gnucash-potfiles'.. Then you changed it to automatically generate that list.
10:16:08 <chris> That led to the inclusion of undistributed file in the translation tools, which made extra work for translators.
10:16:29 <chris> So, we started using POTFILES.skip.
10:17:19 <chris> And, IIRC, it was you who suggested we protect against the case where we begin distributing a previously skipped file, but having forgotten to remove it from the skip list.
10:17:29 <chris> hence, the check.
10:17:53 <warlord> Yeah...
10:18:19 <warlord> The newer tools don't really check for that particular error case.
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10:18:57 <warlord> The newer tools will tell you if a file that appears to have translations isn't enumerated in either POTFILES or POTFILES.skip.
10:21:43 <chris> Why wouldn't we ensure that every file with translations appears in one of those two files?
10:22:36 <warlord> It doesn't solve the problem of accidentally having something in POTFILES.skip that shouldn't be.
10:22:44 <warlord> But I suppose that's the lesser of two evils.
10:24:33 <chris> but we check for that case.
10:25:04 <chris> If it's in POTFILES.skip and distributed, we error out.
10:28:39 <warlord> Yes, and that's the problem. po/Makefile errors out if it's search through the source tree finds files that appear to have translations in them which aren't listed in POTFILES.in or POTFILES.skip or POTFILES.ignore. It's searching the whole source tree, including /lib
10:29:43 <warlord> So po/Makefiles finds files that it shouldn't, and then complains that they're not in the POTFILES lists.. and kills "make check"
10:30:06 <chris> Oh, so we _want_ to distribute untranslated files?
10:30:19 <warlord> and we can't add those files to POTFILES.skip, because these additional files ARE in the dist.
10:30:32 <chris> Or do they not _really_ have translations?
10:30:49 <warlord> In THIS case they don't really have translations.
10:30:57 <warlord> but intltool-update thinks they might.
10:31:10 <chris> So, intltool actually became dumber.
10:31:35 <warlord> Or became "too smart"..
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12:46:57 <administrator> hello to all.
12:46:59 <administrator> I would like to ask how many people pay for gnucash today.
12:47:00 <administrator> Is it possible to know that.
12:47:02 <administrator> I would like to spend some small money from my company to enrich gnucash with some more businnes features.
12:47:04 <administrator> At the moment i dont know what i would like to espect for that and if it would be really implemented in gnucash
12:47:46 <andi5> administrator: i guess the question is who is going to do that work for you
12:48:09 <warlord> administrator: right now nobody "pays" for gnucash, per-se. People DO donate to the project, but there are no paid developers.
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12:50:01 <administrator> I itself miss some features in gnucash and would like to became a payable custumer for gnucash if is there a possibility to implement some features in gnucash that are missing at the moment.
12:50:03 <administrator> I dont know at the moment if it will maybe better to give the money direct to a developer and he then implement the needed businnes features.
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12:50:31 <warlord> administrator: it depends on the features.
12:51:27 <administrator> One feature is somehow allready implemented but it dont work in gnucash for me. Thats the open invoice per customer that arent pay at the moment.
12:53:59 <administrator> I dont have at the moment somehow the easy possibility to see how many of the invoices are not payed at the moment per customer. I would like to have a feauture where i can easy print a report of invoices per customer that arent payed till yet with all needed data like amount due date and so on...
12:54:20 <warlord> Eh? Search for invoice where customer = X and "is not paid"
12:55:02 <warlord> It works quite well.
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12:58:32 <administrator> Do i have right understand. I click on the Menu Business and then i select Bills Due Reminder.
12:58:34 <administrator> For me this dont work. It dont happen nothing.
13:00:18 <warlord> No, that will only show you Vendor Bills.. And only show you OVERDUE vendor bills.
13:00:40 <administrator> Searching a invoice "Businnes->Custumer->Find Invoice" by the name of the customer dont work also. It happen nothing.
13:01:08 <warlord> On THAT I dont believe you.
13:01:12 <warlord> I use that feature all the time.
13:03:27 <administrator> For me really dont work. If i make the following "Businnes->Custumer->Find Custumer" and then make a search by the name of the customer then gnucash find the customer.
13:03:29 <administrator> If i make a search with "Businnes->Custumer->Find Invoice" by the name of the customer gnucash dont show the result.
13:06:22 <warlord> Then you're entering the wrong customer name or performing the search wrong.
13:12:03 <administrator> In the "Find Custumer" Window i put only the letter "m" in the search field and click on the "find" button.
13:12:04 <administrator> In the "Find Invoice" Window first i select "Company Name" in the search criteria and then write the letter "m" in the search field. After this i click on the "find" button and nothing happens.
13:12:06 <administrator> From my side of view i dont make something wrong here
13:13:29 <administrator> Can you search a invoice with the search criterium "Company Name" with only one letter in the "Find Invoice" window ?
13:14:13 <warlord> I cannot reproduce what you say. I just tried exactly what you said and it works for me.
13:14:41 <warlord> I tried with three letters.. let me try with one.
13:15:07 <warlord> Yes, it works with one, too.
13:15:36 <administrator> hmmm thats really strange.
13:17:52 <warlord> indeed
13:22:12 <administrator> Well i have now 4 days free i will look if i can backtrace this bug somehow on my mashine.
13:22:13 <administrator> Now the second missing feature from three that from my side is not implemented in gnucash.
13:22:15 <administrator> Thats the rounding settings in the Taxtable.
13:23:04 <administrator> I have allready with you speaked that i have invoices that have tax amounts like 10.33 or 15.71
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13:24:05 <administrator> i would like now to see by creating a new tax entry in the tax table the possibility to round the taxamount by a setting that was saved together with the tax data
13:25:36 <administrator> You know what i mean ?
13:25:38 <administrator> I create a tax Entry with the name "Regular Tax 7.6%" and sett the rounding for this tax entry to 1/20 as a example.
13:25:40 <administrator> Then i create a tax Entry with the name "Irregular Tax 7.6%" and sett the rounding for this tax to 1/100
13:25:54 <warlord> Okay, that might be possible, to extend the tax table...
13:27:26 <warlord> next?
13:31:47 <administrator> this would be really great if it could be implemented as fast as possible becouse the Tax amounts does a invoice really make corrupt. The normal work have as a example a amount of 1888 Swiss Francs and then comes the Tax amount with a amount of 143.488. Together it give 2031.488. This invoice nobody will be pay.
13:31:49 <administrator> Okay the Last and begest missing feature in gnucash from my side of view is the not implementd function for imployed People in a company that use Gnucash. I would like to see some function for Imployed people like time management and the paying of Salairs for this people.
13:32:33 <administrator> You know everything should be maked as easy as possibly
13:33:18 <administrator> I have just imployed a person in my Firm and i miss somehow here the functions for summarying his time creating a report and so on..
13:39:45 <warlord> * shudders *
13:40:05 <warlord> A Payroll feature has been discussed, but its HARD. There are so many localizatoin issues it's not funny.
13:40:20 <warlord> Coming up with a good way to handle those localization issues... That's a hard problem.
13:40:31 <warlord> Storing tax tables..
13:41:49 <administrator> Storing tax tables do you mean here the differnt social asuraces that every Land has ?
13:42:04 <administrator> social assurances
13:43:23 <warlord> Yes, different income taxes for different locales.
13:46:24 <administrator> From my side of view it dont should be really hard to implement such a thing.
13:46:26 <administrator> As first you create a window where you type the worked time of the imployed person.
13:46:28 <administrator> Then you put the Money that this Person earn for calculating the total Money amount for this person.
13:46:49 <warlord> administrator: yes, and then magic happens.
13:46:53 <warlord> You're not a developer.
13:46:56 <warlord> Sure, the UI is simple.
13:47:00 <warlord> That's not the hard part.
13:47:26 <warlord> Who keeps all the various tax tables up to date for each country, state, county, city?
13:47:41 <warlord> How do you deal with pre-tax and post-tax deductions?
13:47:48 <warlord> What about tax limits?
13:48:00 <warlord> (e.g., only the first $95000 is taxed)
13:48:16 <warlord> What about some income that is taxable to some taxes and non-taxable to other taxes?
13:50:17 <warlord> it's a VERY complicated problem.
13:50:26 <administrator> Wait wait a litlle !
13:50:28 <administrator> You dont need to complcated the hole thing.
13:50:30 <administrator> Create something that just work for the first moment.
13:50:31 <administrator> in the lower part of this window you live 10 lines with the fields "Assurance Name" "Procent" "amount" and so on empty.
13:50:33 <administrator> People how then have to pay as a example a asurance like "Danger and Security" put in the first Field "Danger and Secrutity XYZ" "1.1%" "100.-"
13:52:02 <warlord> If you want to do that, you already have the ability.. Just create a Split Transaction with those entries.
13:52:02 <administrator> Gnucash just make a summary of this data and the Salary is for me completed. I dont have such exotic things that you have said and i dont belive that small companies that use gnucash have also such exotic things
13:52:18 <warlord> Um, you're wrong.
13:52:37 <administrator> But the report for this is not implemented you need some Printings and so on
13:53:57 <warlord> Because there's no point in writing such a report until the underlying system is already in place.
13:54:05 <warlord> You can already print out a summary report.
13:56:34 <administrator> It looks you dont understand or you can't follow me. Employed persons get normaly from y compnay a letter where every payment for a assurance is written downt that was get from the Employed his Sallary. This rapport will be missed if i make only a split transaction.
13:57:03 <warlord> What "assurance"?
13:57:08 <warlord> Whats?
13:58:02 <warlord> I think you're going to need to find someone in your locale to write the report for you, because different countries have different requirements for that.
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14:01:52 <administrator> sorry warlord. Firfoy has just crashed.
14:02:28 <warlord> firfoy? no clue what that is
14:03:20 <administrator> sorry Firefox :-)
14:03:22 <administrator> What social assurnces are normaly in europe subtracted from the Sallary of a employed person.
14:03:23 <administrator> Thats really eassy.
14:04:22 <administrator> In Swiss this is
14:04:23 <administrator> 10% pension assurance
14:04:43 <warlord> What's "assurance"?
14:05:03 <administrator> 5 to 10% jobless assurance
14:06:04 <administrator> Oh really !
14:06:06 <administrator> http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=on&search=versicherung&relink=on
14:06:07 <administrator> assurance also [insur.]
14:06:20 <administrator> can you speak english ?
14:06:43 <warlord> Dont be rude.
14:06:51 <warlord> I didn't ask YOU that question.
14:07:14 <warlord> In the US there's no such financial term as "assurance".
14:07:14 <administrator> just a bad joke.
14:07:43 <administrator> Ok but you have sure somthing simmilar that is subtracted from the Employer his money
14:07:46 <warlord> First of all, I'm not going to implement something that I can't use.
14:08:56 <warlord> Yes, I have AT LEAST Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, Social Security, and Medicare.. And the rules associated with that. Then of course there are other deductions.
14:11:31 <administrator> So the problems are in this case the rules of this taxes (insurances) or whatever they are named.
14:11:33 <administrator> In some country they are full from the beginning and in some contry they beginn in speciall cases
14:11:48 <warlord> Yep!
14:11:54 <warlord> Or end at certain places.
14:12:10 <warlord> For example, Social Security ends at something like $90,000 or something.
14:17:33 <administrator> Good i will think about a solution for this rules.
14:17:34 <administrator> From my side of view a soultion could be to activate a tax (insurance) manually by the user.
14:17:35 <administrator> A another solution could be maybe also to look for a open source payroll soultion and try to iplement it. However i will think more about it.
14:17:37 <administrator> Now about the money for gnucash.
14:17:38 <administrator> Whats the best method for supporting Gnucash.
14:17:40 <administrator> buying a IRC or Mail Support License for say 60 dollars for 6 Months.
14:17:41 <administrator> Or paying the moneys direct to a developer fund for implementing some businnes Feautres ?
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14:28:25 <warlord> Nobody sells a support contract.
14:28:39 <warlord> You can donate to the gnucash project (see www.gnucash.org ) but there's no implied contract.
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14:32:21 <administrator> i have just readed the "How to help" Wiki page
14:32:23 <administrator> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Development#Money
14:32:24 <administrator> It looks like i will first search for a developer how have interest and motivation to extend the Tax Rounding for 50 Dollars.
14:32:25 <administrator> And then i will spend 50 Dollars to the project for the people how keep up the good work and support here in the IRC Channel.
14:32:27 <administrator> Warlord how about you for implementing the Tax rounding feature ?
14:32:53 <administrator> Do you have some free time in the next weeks ?
14:33:53 <warlord> Unfortunately I do not.
14:33:55 <warlord> Sorry.
14:36:49 <administrator> thats pity. I will try to ask andy5. i believe he is a good gnucash developer
14:38:31 <warlord> You can try asking on -devel, but I think right now most of the devs are booked. But you never know.
14:39:26 <administrator> Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that.
14:39:28 <administrator> I will now switch off the connection.
14:39:30 <administrator> Thanks for your helpfull answers today warlord and till the next time.
14:39:39 <warlord> thanks
14:39:40 <warlord> later
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19:02:58 <warlord> andi5: I'm sure it is.
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19:29:39 <jsled> Interesting: http://laszlok2.blogspot.com/2007/05/presenting-adventure-money.html
19:31:17 <jsled> Huh ... a few gnucash articles @ http://www.myinvestmentblog.com/using-gnucash-track-your-budget
19:41:12 <chris> jsled: cool.
20:33:24 <andi5> ok... i need some input regarding http://pastebin.ca/raw/492097 .... especially because of the string freeze coming ... btw, this patch means that after clicking an unaccessible history entry, a failure dialog is showed and after that this verification dialog
20:39:28 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
20:40:06 <warlord> andi5: Can the failure dialog differentiate between a file loaded-at-startup, loaded-from-history, or loaded-by-user-selection?
20:41:50 <andi5> i do not think so... it is showed within gnc-file.c while trying to open the file... (gnc_file_open_file)
20:42:26 <warlord> Hmm..
20:42:52 <andi5> at least i could not come up with a good solution when i was awake :-)
20:43:52 <warlord> Too bad. Because if we did then you wouldn't need the second verification dialog; you could just change the text in the failure dialog in the case of load-from-history, which is really the only case where we'd want to remove the file from history.
20:44:52 <andi5> the verification dialog _is_ only showed on load-from-history
20:45:16 <andi5> i did not change loaded-by-user-selection at all and load-at-startup is fixed by the first hunk
20:45:32 <andi5> well, but you are right, it is too bad
20:47:12 <warlord> Well... Could we pass a boolean flag down into gnc_file_open_file(), "load_from_history"?
20:47:40 <warlord> I've just been convinced that it would be better to not have a second dialog.
20:48:02 <andi5> (you know that i would prefer no verification at all ;-))
20:53:07 <andi5> i am not sure whether we really want to tell gnc_post_file_open who the caller was.... but maybe that it should not show the user final error messages (i think there was a similar issue with files on windows, but not from the history)
20:53:46 <andi5> but maybe the latter was more about "try it once more" ... *tired*
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23:47:19 <gantrixx> does anyone know of an open accounting format like ODF, but for accounting software?
23:47:41 <gantrixx> The biggest problem I have using GNUCash is that no accountant will work with it
23:48:03 <gantrixx> or are there any plans to offer a GNUCash online version similar to QuickBooks online?
23:49:23 <warlord> nope, I know of no accounting equivalent to ODF, and no, there's no plans for a Gnucash online version. But there is a gnucash live-cd.
23:49:55 <warlord> As for accountants.. I just send mine my Balance Sheet, Profit&Loss, and a transaction report and they're happy.
23:51:36 <gantrixx> Mine isn't happy with that
23:51:44 <warlord> find a better accountant?
23:51:49 <gantrixx> They all seem to steer me toward QuickBooks
23:51:57 <gantrixx> can you suggest one?
23:52:02 <gantrixx> that uses GNUCash?
23:52:03 <warlord> Mine?
23:52:06 <gantrixx> sure
23:52:14 <gantrixx> I've tried 8 here in Arizona
23:52:19 <warlord> Mine's in Mass.
23:52:24 <gantrixx> none will work with GNUCash
23:52:40 <warlord> He doesn't use GnUCash.. But he's always been happy with me just sending the Balance Sheet, P&L, and Txn Reports.
23:52:47 <warlord> I dont mention gnucash.
23:52:58 <gantrixx> email his contact info to me
23:56:17 <warlord> use google.