2007-05-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:06:47 <Hydroxide> is it necessary to subscribe to gnucash-user to ask a question there? I'd appreciate some help with my question earlier about how to account for return of capital mutual fund distributions, but I'm hesitant to sign up for yet another mailing list I need to filter and then remember to unsubscribe from
02:07:03 <Hydroxide> (an answer in this channel would also be welcome if someone knows)
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03:39:35 <MasseR> Uhm, I'm somewhat new to this so my vocabulary might be off. Is 'accountroof, paymentroof' etc the correct word? Someone I know needs an accounting software that handles it
03:41:36 <Hydroxide> MasseR: I haven't heard those terms before. I have taken an accounting course, but only an introductory undergraduate one, and I've only been using Gnucash for a few months. Still, the words you're looking for are probably something different
03:42:04 <Hydroxide> what do you mean by "accountroof" and "paymentroof"?
03:42:39 <MasseR> I don't know actually. My mother's language isn't english, so those were direct translations
03:42:51 <MasseR> I think it had something to do with taxing
03:42:54 <Hydroxide> I understand, I realize you're connecting from a finnish hostname
03:43:30 <Hydroxide> well, I'd need to understand more of what you mean to tell you whether Gnucash can do it. Maybe explain it in more words instead of trying to find a short direct translation?
03:44:11 <MasseR> Hmm... Considering the words it might have something to do with maximum money
03:44:18 <Hydroxide> yes
03:44:41 <Hydroxide> that much I was able to guess.
03:45:03 <Hydroxide> what's the word in finnish (or whichever language)?
03:54:16 <MasseR> No sorry it was my error
03:54:36 <MasseR> I misheard "tilikartta" to "tilikatto". So the translation would be something like accountmapping?
03:54:43 <MasseR> Account map or something
03:59:52 <MasseR> http://www.taloushallintoliitto.fi/mp/db/file_library/x/IMG/12100/file/Perustililuettelo%5f160502.xls Like this (in finnish)
04:13:02 <Hydroxide> MasseR: could 'chart of accounts' be what you mean?
04:13:24 <Hydroxide> in other words, a hierarchy of all the accounts, their types, descriptions, and balances?
04:15:17 <Hydroxide> yes, a chart of accounts
04:15:22 <Hydroxide> that's what your .xls file shows
04:15:27 <Hydroxide> and gnucash supports that just fine, yes
04:16:10 <Hydroxide> you can put in account codes, too, which I hadn't mentioned yet
04:26:32 <MasseR> Great
04:26:43 <MasseR> How about custom taxes?
04:27:57 <Hydroxide> well, I know people have ways of handling GST and VAT
04:28:13 <Hydroxide> I don't know the details since I live in the US
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04:45:36 <MasseR> Apparently it is relatively easy to create bank-interfaces to gnucash?
04:45:41 <MasseR> That was also one criteria
04:45:56 <Hydroxide> I believe HBCI and OFX DirectConnect are both supported
04:46:26 <Hydroxide> I need to go now
04:46:32 <MasseR> Thanks for your help :)
04:46:48 <Hydroxide> good luck. I expect that the Europeans will show up in not too long and be able to answer your questions
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05:00:49 <Hydroxide> ErKa, cortana: hi there. I just emailed gnucash-user without being subscribed. does either of you know if the message will go through?
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05:53:19 <cortana> Hydroxide: i don't know... you should get a bounce if it won't go through
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09:09:55 <warlord> Hydroxide: it will get stuck in the moderator queue, so it'll take a week or so to get through.
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11:44:06 <Hydroxide> warlord: one would hope that the moderator would check the queue more often that once a week, but I guess that's being a bit optimistic, huh?
11:45:05 <warlord> Yep.
11:45:10 <warlord> Hey, it USED to be about once a month!
11:45:19 <warlord> Down to once a week is a MARKED improvement.
11:46:26 <Hydroxide> heh
11:47:20 <Hydroxide> anyway, the email was related to the question I was asking you the other night about the books not balancing. I tracked it down to the exact two transactions which cause a problem, and which if voided allow the books to balance again
11:48:14 <Hydroxide> it's non-taxable distributions from a mutual fund, i.e. return of capital. it reduces my cost basis and I think the price per share, and gives me cash back with no decrease in number of shares. it does not count as income for tax purposes in most cases including the ones that apply to my situation
11:48:48 <Hydroxide> I currently have those marked a credit to my fund account for 0 shares and the dollar amount of the distribution, and a debit to cash for the same dollar amount
11:48:52 <Hydroxide> *marked as
11:49:00 <Hydroxide> but they cause lots of problems
11:49:43 <Hydroxide> and I'm clearly doing something wrong. I do also reinvest these distributions, but it doesn't have a problem balancing when I void the distributions but leave the reinvestments unvoided, so they aren't the problem
11:51:05 <warlord> In a twisted way I can see why gnucash has issues with that.. You're getting money from nothing as far as gnucash is concerned.
11:52:10 <warlord> I would still just call it "Income:Return on Capital"
11:52:17 <warlord> but that's just me
11:52:43 <Hydroxide> well, it isn't actually income
11:52:55 <Hydroxide> it reduces my cost basis; my total net worth is unchanged
11:53:11 <Hydroxide> ...I think... :P
11:53:19 <jsled> I usually respond to moderation requests w/in a few hours; it really helps once I actually added myself to the admin list, I started getting mail when there was a new entry for moderation, so I can review and respond quickly.
11:53:39 <Hydroxide> maybe it's not unchanged, hm.
11:54:11 <Hydroxide> jsled: ok. thanks very much in advance whenever you do approve the mail
11:54:52 <Hydroxide> warlord: my existing gnucash entry for it was taken from your own advice I think, back in January 2005 on gnucash-user. I might be confusing you with someone else, but I don't think so
11:54:59 <Hydroxide> warlord: (not addressed to me)
11:56:17 <warlord> My context memory for the gnucash-lists is about 30 minutes.
11:56:53 <Hydroxide> hehe :)
11:57:50 <Hydroxide> warlord: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2005-January/012667.html
11:58:18 <Hydroxide> I don't have that long a memory either, of course, but google does
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12:58:00 <andi5> warlord: ping
13:00:58 <warlord> andi5: pong
13:01:44 <andi5> you asked what would be more common, a missing mount or a moved/deleted file... i do not know, but i have another suggestion
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13:02:25 <andi5> there is already a hidden gconf entry for the number of history entries..... what would you think about an entry "keep_stable_files" ?
13:02:41 <andi5> stale, i mean
13:05:05 <warlord> I think keeping "stale" files should be the default.
13:05:09 <warlord> (see the mail thread)
13:05:59 <andi5> i would like to hear the opinions of other devs first, because i really disagree here :-)
13:06:12 <warlord> Sure.
13:06:29 <warlord> But I honestly dont want gnucash to blindly remove history entries
13:06:47 <andi5> well, we do not remove files... just the history entries
13:07:11 <andi5> i think the typical users will bother stale history files more than having forgotten to mount an underlying file system
13:07:53 <andi5> imagine you move your file to a different directory.... the entry will stay as long as you do not open 3 other files too
13:08:04 <andi5> i think THAT is most common
13:09:48 <andi5> but i guess we agree upon that we do not need a gconf entry "remove_stale_files" if it defaults to FALSE, right?
13:09:48 * jsled agrees. Most other software silently removes inaccessible history entries. We might treat "last opened file" differently.
13:11:02 <jsled> (as it's automatically opened, rather than explicitly)
13:11:22 <warlord> Sure.
13:11:33 <andi5> jsled: that is no problem at all, just do not call gnc_history_remove_file in gnucash-bin.c
13:11:49 <warlord> I'd be willing to live with that compromise.
13:12:05 <warlord> (although I think I'd also like a verification dialog before it's removed)
13:12:28 * andi5 thinks overkill
13:12:33 <warlord> Rather.. I think the call should be removed from gnucash-bin completely..
13:12:56 <warlord> and I'd like to see a verification dialog before history files are removed when you select them from the File -> Open Recent list.
13:13:21 <warlord> But the removal on startup is definitely bad.
13:13:43 <andi5> (a) +1 (b) -0.5
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13:14:48 <andi5> warlord: to be honest, i did not even imagine the problem you experience now :-)
13:15:53 <warlord> It's hit me more than once. My datafile is stored under EncFS.
13:16:44 <andi5> warlord: but the "some weird problem if disk is full" bug has not hit you yet?
13:16:57 <warlord> Nope. I dont fill my disks. ;)
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13:20:16 <chris> I may be missing the point... but don't inaccessible files naturally fall off the recent files list over time?
13:20:45 <chris> (unless we count an unsuccessful open as a "recent use"?)
13:21:16 <andi5> i wonder whether this discussion will be obsolete when we switch to GtkRecent* someday :)
13:22:29 <andi5> chris: open a file, then delete it.... this file name will stay in the history list as long as you do not open enough files that will appear before it in the list
13:25:57 <warlord> chris: it will stick around until you've opened N-1 additional files. (where N defaults to 4)
13:26:11 <chris> hmm, I think that's pretty reasonable default behavior. There are several reasons why a previously-inaccessible file might become accessible.
13:26:13 <warlord> and "addtional" means "different filename"
13:26:30 <andi5> different absolute filename, yes
13:27:55 <andi5> hm... does anyone understand the problems wilddev reported?
13:35:48 <warlord> No.. But "make check" wouldn't have worked until yesterday anyways.
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13:37:58 <andi5> wilddev did not say which revision he used, but i suppose it was r16082, i.e. hamptons fix should be *in*, right?
13:38:18 <warlord> I dont know.
13:38:25 <warlord> I'd have to look at email timestamps.
13:40:33 <hampton> Wilddev's errors had nothing to do with the test-lots code that is now fixed.
13:41:14 <warlord> yes, I know.
13:41:33 <warlord> I was more commenting that "make check" wouldn't have worked in any case even without these other weird problems.
13:41:45 <andi5> hampton: did i wake you up? .. maybe i should use `hamppton' ;-) ... hiho
13:42:01 <hampton> :-)
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13:43:15 <andi5> hampton: do you have any opinion on #438360? ... i think it is time to close it
13:43:42 <andi5> oops...
13:43:49 <andi5> #388500, i mean
13:46:31 <warlord> Well, 1654EDT vs. 1950EDT, so wilddev probably did have hampton's patch.
13:46:42 <hampton> I'm ok with your last comment on that bug. You're going to get an error message anyway that the file couldn't be found to load. I don't believe you need a second error message saying you're removing the entry from the list.
13:47:06 <warlord> well, it's more that I'd like to see a way to NOT remove it from the list.
13:47:33 <warlord> (i'm happy with a "Don't remove from history" button)
13:47:43 <andi5> BTW, gnucash-2.1.1 archives ready for distribution:
13:49:35 <andi5> maybe a "retry" button ;-)
13:50:01 <warlord> Nah, I think 'Cancel' is good enough..
13:50:27 <warlord> Just so long as there's a code-path to not remove the history, and the code-path is documented.
13:50:44 <andi5> gconf entry, yet again?
13:51:18 <warlord> I dont think it's necessary. Key off the response from the "can't open file" dialog.
13:51:25 <warlord> OK -> Remove History, Cancel -> Dont remove it.
13:51:42 <warlord> Just need to add text to the dialog to inform the user.
13:52:07 <hampton> I'm confused. I thought the current proposal was only to remove the item if you had explicitly selected it from the recent items menu, not when the file wasn't found at startup.
13:53:12 <warlord> hampton: true. but doesn't the dialog appear when you select File -> [Open Recent] and the file isn't there?
13:53:24 * warlord would have to test that.
13:56:04 <hampton> Right now (2.0.x) when I try and open a non-existent file I get an error dialog saying "The file /path/to/file/name could not be found."
13:56:50 <hampton> I get the same dialog when I start gnucash with a non-existent path name.
13:57:26 <warlord> But that's all during startup, right?
13:59:27 <hampton> No, you get the same warning dialog at startup and when selecting a file from the recent items menu.
14:01:38 <warlord> Ah, okay, good.
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14:27:44 <warlord> Back in a bit.. gonna transfer to my new laptop.
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20:15:44 <hampton> fwiw, Wilddev's problems seem to be something with his system. I pulled a fresh copy of trunk and was able to run 'make distcheck'.
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22:05:14 <hampton> q for the masses. zach submitted a patch that used the check format title to automatically generate the name of the new check file. The existing patch will generate file names with embedded spaces. Does anyone care? Or should I translate the spaces to underscores?
22:17:16 <warlord> Will gnucash react properly to files with embedded spaces in the name?
22:19:00 <hampton> Gnucash doesn't care. I was more concerned about possible file system issues (if any), or the consistency that none of our other installed files use embedded spaces.
22:19:46 <jsled> spaces are fine if the user enters them.
22:21:09 <hampton> Well, the user is entering them as the title of the check name, not as a file name. The patch takes the title and adds .chk to get the filename to use in ~/.gnucash/checks
22:21:36 <hampton> I like the auto filename creation part.
22:29:26 <warlord> If gnucash will properly load it back in later then I dont think it's a problem.
22:29:42 <hampton> ok
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22:42:35 <hampton> speak of the devil.....
22:42:43 <hampton> :-)
22:44:59 <warlord> haha
22:51:13 <zach> <ignignokt>my digital ears were burning</ignignokt>
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