2007-05-08 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:46:34 <Chintan> how do I view gnucash documentation on my computer using doxygen(html)?
04:46:34 <gncbot> Chintan: Sent 1 day, 19 hours, and 37 minutes ago: <warlord> glad to hear!
04:48:52 <Chintan> when I run doxygen doxygen.cfg.in , it gives this error: Error: tag INPUT: input source `@-top_srcdir-@/src' does not exist
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06:37:59 <lkthomas> hey guys
06:38:06 <lkthomas> we are using simply accounting now
06:38:13 <lkthomas> and I want to switch it to gnucache
06:38:16 <lkthomas> gnucash
06:38:26 <lkthomas> does gnucash support invoice printing ?
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09:15:51 <jsled> gncbot: tell Chintan you may need to re-./configure with --enable-doxygen; also, there's a `make docs` (IIRC) target in src/ or src/doc/
09:15:51 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
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10:03:32 <warlord> @tell Chintan you should ./configure --enable-doxygen and then run "make doc". Or you can just go to http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD which has a nightly build of the documentation.
10:03:32 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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10:40:22 <lkthomas-home> hey guys
10:40:24 <lkthomas-home> anyone still alive ?
10:40:41 <jsled> please don't meta-ask.
10:41:00 <lkthomas-home> actually
10:41:10 <lkthomas-home> our company is using "The simply accounting"
10:41:27 <lkthomas-home> and it does not have any sql backend that allow other program to access to it
10:41:39 <lkthomas-home> does gnucash support mysql insert ?
10:41:56 <jsled> no, gnucash does not have a functional database backend.
10:42:16 <lkthomas-home> any other program that could suggest for company accounting ?
10:42:19 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_the_Postgres_DB_.2F_SQL_backend_supported.3F
10:43:21 <jsled> SQLLedger/LedgerSMB?
10:43:25 <lkthomas-home> hang on
10:43:53 <lkthomas-home> I see
10:44:51 <cortana> Quasar?
10:44:57 <lkthomas-home> so gnucash is for something like SOHO business
10:45:29 <lkthomas-home> what is Quasar ?
10:45:36 <jsled> It's for personal finanance and small business. The business features were written by and for a consultant.
10:45:52 <jsled> Presumably another accounting package.
10:53:12 <cortana> http://freshmeat.net/projects/quasar/
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10:58:48 <lkthomas-home> sqlledger does not support mysql :)
10:59:27 <cortana> that is a good thing :)
10:59:51 <lkthomas-home> WHAT ? :)
10:59:53 <warlord> until recently mysql didn't have the transactional support necessary
11:00:13 <warlord> even when GnuCash DID have a working DB Backend, it was only Postgres.
11:00:25 <warlord> There's work on a GDA backend, but that's not nearly complete.
11:00:44 <lkthomas-home> warlord: does anyone work on postgr web base interface ?
11:01:01 <warlord> not for gnucash
11:01:05 <lkthomas-home> hmm
11:01:15 <warlord> I'd recommend sql-ledger
11:01:42 <lkthomas-home> I hope sql-ledger got all feature that we need
11:01:59 <warlord> No clue
11:02:09 <warlord> I haven't looked at SQL-Ledger in 5 years.
11:02:15 <lkthomas-home> LOL
11:02:22 <cortana> or the quasar...
11:02:22 <lkthomas-home> it have been around for 10years ?!
11:02:33 <cortana> lwn.net did a comparison of differnet accounting software not too long ago
11:02:35 <warlord> could be.
11:02:43 <warlord> I've never looked at quasar.
11:02:52 <cortana> nor i apart from screenshots
11:03:08 <warlord> that's even more than I've seen ;)
11:03:27 <cortana> http://lwn.net/Articles/149383/
11:03:39 <cortana> hm, when i said 'not too long ago' i apparantly meant 18 months
11:05:52 <lkthomas-home> actually
11:06:02 <lkthomas-home> it shouldn't be hard to modify sql-ledger
11:07:04 <lkthomas-home> seems no opensource solution for accounting yet
11:08:55 <jsled> There's a handful, obviously. And they fit other people's needs well enough, though apparently don't meet your criteria.
11:10:15 <lkthomas-home> for a real business, it seems not mature enought to implement
11:10:32 <warlord> lkthomas: I'm sorry to correct you. There ARE opensource solutions for accounting.. Just none that fit your particular needs. But saying "there are none" is quite incorrect.
11:11:10 <warlord> Also, saying "for a real business" is also incorrect. MANY "real" businesses have used GnuCash or SQL-Legder for multiple years.
11:11:30 <lkthomas-home> http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linuxacct.html
11:13:37 <lkthomas-home> what I am worrying is that when I upgrade gnucash, it might appear as core dump :)
11:14:10 <cortana> you might have the same problems with any software you run, proprietary or free
11:14:33 <cortana> that's a pretty thorough list!
11:14:37 <lkthomas-home> I know, but I experience core dump more on linux than windows :)
11:14:49 <cortana> i wish i could say the same :)
11:15:14 <lkthomas-home> I almost got core dump everyday on diff machine
11:23:11 <warlord> lkthomas: I find that surprising... The Windows BSoD is quite common... I get windows crashes all the time.. And then it crashes it brings down the whole computer. At least wen a Linux app crashes I only lose that one app.
11:24:30 <jsled> really? I was under the impression that the BSOD was basically eliminated in Win2k and subsequently XP.
11:25:22 <cortana> if you have crummy hardware/drivers then you'll get crashes on any os
11:28:19 <warlord> I've seen plenty of BSoD on w2k, fewer on XP.
11:28:23 <lkthomas-home> agree with cortana
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11:30:06 <warlord> sure, the diference is that windows makes users install drivers all the time, and the distinction between "driver" and "app" historically hasn't been a very strong line. MS is FINALLY fixing this, but it's only taken them 15 years to get to where Linux/Unix was back in the 80s
11:30:35 <warlord> anyways, I need to head to the office. BBL.
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11:46:41 <lkthomas-home> brb
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13:24:55 <administrator> Hello To all !
13:24:57 <administrator> Just a litle question once again about Tax related Vendor Bills.
13:24:58 <administrator> Exist in GnuCash the Possibility to enter the needed Tax manually in Gnucash ?
13:25:00 <administrator> At the moment i have a invoice with more than 10 Position. The problem is that only One Position is tax related.
13:25:01 <administrator> Everytime i put the amount of the Invoice in the Invoice Entrys is get the Tax for the Full Invoice.
13:25:03 <administrator> Thats really pitty!
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13:41:21 <chintan> I did compile with the enable doxygen option, but don't know what to do next to see documentation using doxygen
13:41:21 <gncbot> chintan: Sent 4 hours and 25 minutes ago: <jsled> you may need to re-./configure with --enable-doxygen; also, there's a `make docs` (IIRC) target in src/ or src/doc/
13:41:22 <gncbot> chintan: Sent 3 hours and 37 minutes ago: <warlord> you should ./configure --enable-doxygen and then run make doc . Or you can just go to http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD which has a nightly build of the documentation.
13:41:51 <jsled> It outputs html ... so, you'd load it in the browser.
13:42:03 <chintan> but where are the htmls?
13:43:12 <chintan> I guess I'll have to make docs also
13:43:30 <chintan> let me just check out as suggested by warlord
13:43:38 <jsled> chintan: look in src/doc/Makefile.am ... the 'doc:' target, in particular.
13:43:51 <chintan> ok
13:43:54 <jsled> Notice that it `rm -Rf html`.... so that's probably the place. :)
13:50:31 <chintan> there are two rm -rf:1)rm -rf html refman.pdf 2)rm -rf html latex ; can't really make anything out of any of them!
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13:52:52 <jsled> chintan: Hmm? Well, the first one is part of the target when you `make doc`. The second one is done as a consquence of when you `make maintainer-clean`...
13:53:08 <chintan> ok
13:54:08 <chintan> so the first one must have something to do with the htmls?
13:55:04 <jsled> chintan: the output should be in src/doc/html/ after you've run `make doc`.
13:55:16 <chintan> ok
13:56:00 <chintan> ya, that means I have to run the make docs explicitly
13:56:45 <chintan> but make docs, gives me : make: *** No rule to make target `docs'. Stop.
13:57:35 <chintan> besides, presently, there is no html directory in src/doc/html
13:57:49 <chintan> oops sorry
13:57:50 <jsled> as we both said, it's `make doc`.
13:57:54 <chintan> besides, presently, there is no html directory in src/doc/
13:58:16 <chintan> ok, my mistake. sorry!
13:58:29 <chintan> something's working, finally
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14:01:43 <chintan> Got it working! Doxygen is really cool. I am using it for the first time. Thanks a lot for your help.
14:02:32 <jsled> Doxygen's okay. Even after years of using javadoc, I've never found the actual HTML output to be useful.
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14:02:50 <jsled> And I rarely want to look at the HTMLized doxygen artifacts.
14:03:11 <jsled> But, the convention and the consistency in documentation syntax in the source files themselves ... that's where the real value lies.
14:03:20 <chintan> so you rather look at the comments in the code itself?
14:03:26 <chintan> ok
14:03:27 <jsled> By far, yeah.
14:03:45 <jsled> Which is too bad, cause doxygen syntax is actually kinda crap for that.
14:04:02 <chintan> I guess that's something I'd learn coding for gnucash
14:04:26 <chintan> I mean the conventions and consistency
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14:06:20 <warlord> administrator: You can mark each item as Taxable or not.
14:06:37 <warlord> So, it an item isn't Taxable, then clear the "Taxable" column and it wont get taxed..
14:06:45 <warlord> Or you can clear the TaxTable entry, too.
14:10:27 <administrator> hello Warlord. I have allready thinked that at the moment the spiliting of the invoice is the only solution.
14:10:29 <administrator> However i would like to ask if it will interesting to implement a selct box with entries "No Tax" "custom" "Tax Included" "Tax excluded" int the Invoice entry Formular
14:11:21 <administrator> From my side of view the actual solution is not the best.
14:11:52 <warlord> administrator: that's already there.
14:12:16 <administrator> but only for Tax Included. Not for "Custom Tax"
14:12:24 <warlord> WTF is "Custom Tax"?
14:13:53 <administrator> Tax that you can self put in the Invoice Entry Formular.
14:13:55 <administrator> "Tax Included" = self generated Tax
14:13:56 <administrator> "Custom Tax" = customer(user) generated Tax
14:14:36 <warlord> Sorry, "TaxIncluded" already has a specific meaning in GnuCash..
14:15:17 <warlord> What's a "Customer generated tax"? Can you give me an example, and show me how the current system doesn't handle it?
14:16:23 <warlord> Note that for each item you can flag "Taxable" (is there tax on this line-item), "TaxIncluded" (is the tax already included in the total value (ala European prices) or is the tax on TOP of the value (ala American prices)), and the TaxTable (which lists the set of taxes applies).
14:16:46 <warlord> This should be able to handle any tax anywhere in the world.
14:17:00 <warlord> So please.. Show me an example that gnucash can't handle.
14:18:25 <administrator> You get from a vendor a bill that has 10 Positions.
14:18:27 <administrator> Example.
14:18:28 <administrator> Position one "1 pice Harddisc 200 Gb " with a Tax of 10%
14:18:30 <administrator> Position two "1 Pice Floppy 3.5" " with a Tax of 5%
14:18:31 <administrator> ...
14:18:33 <administrator> Position 10 "250 picec special Paper" with no Tax
14:18:34 <administrator> Total amount of the Tax 1000 Dollar.
14:19:05 <administrator> tax showed in the Invoice 25 Dollars
14:19:36 <administrator> Puting every Position as a separate invoice in GnuCash is not optimal
14:19:44 <warlord> Okay, so you need two tax tables, one for 10%, one for 5%.
14:20:16 <warlord> Line 1, you apply taxable1 (10%). Line 2 you apply taxtable2 (5%). For line10 you don't put any tax table at all..
14:20:44 <warlord> You dont need separate invoices for this.
14:21:10 <warlord> ... but you DO need to itemize it.
14:22:05 <administrator> Good thats a solution.
14:22:07 <administrator> However would it not be better to put the Hole thing in only one Line.
14:22:08 <administrator> Example
14:22:24 <warlord> Nope, it would not be better.
14:22:34 <administrator> Why not
14:22:40 <warlord> The whole point is to keep track of each of the items you got.
14:23:07 <warlord> If you dont want that then you might as well not use the vendor bill system at all and just enter the transaction manually... $1000 / $25 / $1025
14:24:35 <administrator> Or you give the user the possibility to select if he want the implemented Function "Tax Included" or if he want itself put the Tax of the Invoice together with the TaxTable selected
14:25:20 <warlord> No, the way to do that will be to enter transactions manually, not using the business features.
14:25:41 <warlord> (eventually I hope to have a way to tie a manually-entered transaction into a customer or vendor)
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14:26:14 <warlord> But that's not in 2.0.x, and wont be in 2.1/2.2..
14:26:24 <warlord> MAYBE 2.4, but still a ways out.
14:26:52 <warlord> But no, the "Invoice" (Bill) system will never do what you're asking because that's not what it's meant to do. It's designed specifically for itemization.
14:27:19 <administrator> I as a GnuCash user like a lot the Vendor and Customer Invoice Wizard.
14:27:20 <administrator> It should only give the User now the possibilty to edit the calculated Tax and everything is fine
14:28:16 <administrator> Itemizing a big Invoice is not really user friendly. Better give the user the possibility to edit the calculated Tax amount
14:28:23 <warlord> Sorry, that wont ever happen.. The tax is never stored anywhere. It's ALWAYS calculated. So there's no way to edit it, because it's not stored.
14:28:32 <warlord> There's nothing to edit.
14:29:06 <administrator> At the moment not but it should be showed for edit if the user want it from my side of view
14:29:21 <administrator> Thats user friendly
14:29:30 <warlord> Sorry, it's not going to happen.
14:29:45 <warlord> It's not a question of "at the moment".
14:29:58 <warlord> The Computed Tax will NEVER be user-editable.
14:30:11 <administrator> Why not. I could try to implement it if you want
14:30:17 <warlord> Hahahahahahahahaahahah!
14:30:20 <warlord> Sure! Go for it.
14:30:46 <warlord> Don't forget that you have to handle Unposting and Reposting invoices, too..
14:31:24 <warlord> Oh, and what happens if you add a new line-item after the user has entered the tax amount?
14:31:31 <warlord> Oh, and WHERE is the tax entry?
14:31:42 <warlord> So, sure.. Go waste your time.
14:31:50 <warlord> Impress me.
14:32:14 <jsled> what the hell?
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14:32:30 <administrator> Do you calculate for every Reposting and Unposting the Tax ? Why dont you get the saved Tax amount.
14:32:46 <warlord> administrator: yes, the tax the calculated every time.
14:32:56 <administrator> Ohhhhh
14:33:31 <warlord> Yeah......
14:33:54 <warlord> Get it from where?
14:33:58 <warlord> It's not stored anywhere.
14:34:03 <warlord> It's ALWAYS computed.
14:34:36 <administrator> Thats bad !
14:34:38 <administrator> I will look what i can do warlord! I will come back to you once again.
14:34:39 <administrator> I have now to go to a termin.
14:34:41 <administrator> One question is still open for me.
14:34:42 <administrator> How can i enable Tax Rounding in GnuCash for Swiss Francs
14:35:26 <administrator> at the moment i am getting amounts like 20.58 or 100.13
14:35:28 <administrator> I will get something like 20.60 or 100.15
14:36:03 <warlord> Swiss francs don't have 1/100 units?
14:36:32 <warlord> (and no, it's not bad.. it's just the way it is. It's neither good nor bad. It's "bad" to you only because of your weird request)
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14:36:41 <administrator> in the real life not only 5cents 10 cents 20 cents 50 cents
14:38:47 <warlord> administrator: sorry, I didn't understand that last one. Just to make sure we're on the same page, you will NEVER get a '1cent' for Swiss Francs? never? Never ever? Not even from a bank?
14:39:29 <administrator> No one cent dont exist in Switzerland.
14:39:38 <warlord> Not even electronically?
14:40:00 <warlord> Like when you get interest from a bank in your account, they'll always give you interest payments of at least 5cents?
14:40:30 <administrator> Electronicaly maybe. The problem is if you get a customer that will pay in cash. He will allways give you 5 cents
14:40:45 <administrator> He canot give you one cent
14:41:09 <warlord> * ponders *
14:41:40 <administrator> In switzerland the one cent cost to much to be produced.
14:41:42 <administrator> At the moment here is also the Discussion to eliminate the 5 cents
14:42:00 <administrator> Money producing costs !
14:42:19 <warlord> yeah..
14:42:23 <jsled> I guess there could be an alternate rounding method (by currency) for the register. Like, you could set it to "physical currency" mode.
14:42:29 <jsled> But no, there's no way to do that right now.
14:42:32 <warlord> Right now there's not a good way to do that.
14:42:49 <administrator> F*** dont say that !
14:42:54 <jsled> why not?
14:43:16 <administrator> Becouse my hole Finance transaction is in Gnucash
14:43:35 <administrator> and that mean not only for one Month
14:44:02 <warlord> I think it's probably a reasonable thing to add, but it wouldn't be a trivial change. We'd have to modify the currency configuration to add a "physical currency rounding SCU" and provide a flag to specify the physical currency rounding vs. the electronic rounding.
14:45:05 <jsled> Sounds horrible from a user-interface standpoint.
14:45:17 <jsled> How to know what mode you're supposed to be in?
14:45:27 <jsled> s/you're/the software is/
14:45:54 <administrator> Why not change the function that post the amounts to the Accounts.
14:45:54 <warlord> I would think it would be a flag in the account.
14:45:55 <administrator> Before Gnucash post the amount just rund it with a variable
14:46:01 <jsled> I mean, "import = electronic, register = physical" just isn't assuredely right.
14:46:24 <warlord> jsled: that's not what I was meaning...
14:47:01 <warlord> administrator: what happens if your bank account balance is CHF10.01 and you want to close the account. What does your bank do?
14:47:22 <administrator> 10.00
14:48:00 <warlord> Could you write a cheque for CHF10.01 and deposit that into a different bank?
14:48:14 <administrator> Not in switzerland
14:48:46 <warlord> Oh? What would happen if you tried?
14:49:08 <warlord> It's possible the fix is to change the currency definition SCU from 100 to 20
14:49:28 <administrator> Sorry it would be down rounded to 10.00
14:49:34 <jsled> warlord: right, I understand and agree with the changes you suggested. But in terms of using that capability in the rest of the app ... it'd just be a subtle, modal thing. Sounds nasty.
14:49:37 <jsled> that is all.
14:49:50 <warlord> Oh, I agree.
14:49:55 <warlord> It would be a UI nightmare.
14:50:24 <warlord> BIAB. Lucnh.
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14:50:47 <administrator> If i right understand i have to change for now the SCU from 100 to 20.
14:50:48 <administrator> Where is this SCU located ?
14:51:06 <administrator> in the preferences ?
14:52:53 <administrator> I will try to look in the DOC.
14:52:55 <administrator> Thanks for the help till yet.
14:52:57 <administrator> Good night
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16:03:08 <warlord> @tell administrator the SCU is in the Currency Definition which is compiled into the application and then (in some cases) copied into your datafile. There's no UI method to change it.
16:03:08 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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16:34:29 * warlord is looking forward to swapping into his new laptop.
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21:27:35 <warlord> dinner.. BIAW
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22:57:35 <steven> I create an invoice add data, then Business->* Invoice (I've tried all three). It says "No Valid Invoice Selected." Any ideas?
22:59:06 <steven> It was with 2.0.2, as distributed with Ubuntu 7.04.
22:59:38 <steven> I checked the FAQ, searched the website, read the help manual. So far I'm stuck.
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23:03:54 <steven> nbinont: So far everyone seems idle.
23:04:12 <nbinont> could be
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23:04:46 <steven> nbinont: Have you used the Invoice feature? I'm sure there's something I'm just not getting.
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23:07:06 <nbinont> no I have not used the invoice feature.
23:07:19 <nbinont> did you read the docs? http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/bus-ar-invoices1.html
23:07:44 <steven> I tried to read the docs... but I didn't see that page. Thanks.
23:07:49 <nbinont> np
23:12:12 <steven> nbinont: That was exactly the information I needed. Thanks a bunch!
23:12:15 <dbr> hmm. I think the base page for the guide ought to have a link on the main wiki page
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23:13:30 <nbinont> yah...it wasn't quite obvous to me where to go at first
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