2007-05-01 GnuCash IRC logs
00:02:04 <jsled> Best of luck. The channel's usually pretty quiet around this point if you have more questions, but maybe someone is around. G'night.
00:02:23 <ade> thanks again!
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00:14:33 <hampton> Looks like a major underflow problem. Whats 11169 / 29376726805949558 to two places?
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00:54:04 <dbr> 3.8e-8
00:54:35 <dbr> though, I guess that's 2 significant figures. sorry. 0
00:55:42 <hampton> Yep. And that's a problem if you're trying to split a number into two parts based on that ratio.
00:56:21 <hampton> afaict that is why the test-lots program is failing
00:58:03 <hampton> well, that's why its failing when you try to correct the problem that the addition of the Moldavian Leu created.
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01:53:13 <KC> Hi, I'm new two gnucash and I'd like a bit of help with two things. One is that I've been suffering from crashes.
01:54:44 <KC> I have two stack traces and one bunch of text from my shell prompt. Question two is how to set up a mutual account for my 401(k) when I don't have any idea what "commododity" it should be. Thanks....
01:55:37 <KC> I'm using GnuCash 2.0.1 on Mandriva 2007.0, if that matters.
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02:33:05 <KC> OK, another question. One of the template accounts set up when I started GnuCash the first time is of the mutual fund type. I'm trying to enter an opening balance. I entered the share price and the number of shares. When I try to record that transaction it changes to dollar value and resets the price to 1 dollar per share. That doesn't seem right. What am I doing wrong? Thanks again....
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07:20:25 <warlord> hampton: Interesting. I wonder if we should keep the random demoninators to 2^32?
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08:40:03 <paparent_> Hi there, does gnucash uses Bankers' rounding (unbiased rounding / round-to-even) for taxes ?
08:41:08 <warlord> In which tax calculation?
08:44:07 <paparent_> in bills
08:44:57 <warlord> Ah, the TaxTable execution. I believe it uses 0-4 -> down, 5-9->up
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08:48:45 <paparent_> ah :( That's why nothing work! ...
08:49:11 <warlord> All of gnucash rounds that way.
08:49:35 <paparent_> hm ok.. might be good to implent that instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding#Round-to-even_method
08:49:56 <paparent_> coz i've got bills, but i'm 1 cents over! .. nothing much but
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08:50:47 <paparent_> And, in Tax Group, can a Tax tax a tax .... lol.. sorry but, here in quebec, we have TPS and TVQ.. TPS:6%, and TVQ: 7.5% of both the total + the TPS
08:52:01 <warlord> paparent_: Yes, but you have to manually perform the tax-on-tax calculation within the taxtable. Please see the docs and the mailing list archives where this has been discussed multiple times.
08:52:54 <paparent_> yeah well.. i screw that, coz of the rounding! ... i just to standard transactions
08:54:31 <warlord> well, you're welcome to file an RFE asking for round-to-even support.
08:56:23 <warlord> And yes, in a taxtable you'd put TPS: 6% and TVQ(7.5%): 7.95% ... You can do the math to show that this is correct.
08:58:20 <paparent_> yeah, i did that..
08:58:36 <paparent_> but well, was 0.01 cents over, so i deleted all bills ;P
08:59:40 <warlord> Every bill was 1 cent over?
09:00:12 <paparent_> the ones that were example 100,051..
09:00:17 <paparent_> notice the 5 :P
09:01:12 <paparent_> coz when i've five, gnucash round up as you said, but doesnt check if the preceding number is even or odd
09:01:31 <warlord> 100,051 -> 100,05
09:02:09 <paparent_> yeah, for example ;)
09:02:22 <paparent_> read the link above, u'll get it
09:02:57 <warlord> I did read it. 100,051 is STILL rounding to 100,05
09:03:03 <warlord> That's correct in ALL cases.
09:03:33 <zach> and the article even says:
09:03:34 <zach> The origin of the term bankers' rounding is more obscure. If this rounding method was ever a standard in banking, the evidence has proved extremely difficult to find. To the contrary, section 2 of the European Commission report The Introduction of the Euro and the Rounding of Currency Amounts [2] suggests that there had previously been no standard approach to rounding in banking.
09:03:54 <zach> and we all know wikipedia is always right ;)
09:03:59 <warlord> heh
09:04:01 <paparent_> lol
09:04:07 <andi5> zach: timezones suck....
09:04:22 <zach> i'm sorry to hear that :)
09:04:23 <andi5> hey, let us all move to greenwich
09:04:32 <zach> I'm ok with that
09:04:51 <warlord> Nah, I like where I live, but I could live with always using UTC.
09:05:06 <zach> semantics
09:05:25 <andi5> zach: the problem is that i export TZ=UTC in gnucash-bin.c .... so now i want to determine the timezone from within perl
09:05:54 <zach> fun
09:05:57 <andi5> i have given up using c .... _get_tzname is not available as crt function and _tzname is not set
09:06:06 <zach> and we all know how you and perl are good friends :)
09:06:12 <paparent_> but hmmm, how gnucash calculate the taxes ? on each items of the bill, and sums up the amount of tax, or it make the total, and apply the tax ?
09:06:13 <andi5> we love each other
09:06:58 <zach> did you see my comment on the icons defect... changing to 'default' theme makes the gtk redraw problem go away
09:07:34 <andi5> zach: it is really funny... i installed DateTime::TimeZone... it was advertized as being able to determine the timezone... but it only maps (dst-free) timezone names that are _in english_ .... what the heck.... well, it did not understand Westeuropäische Normalzeit
09:07:39 <andi5> yep
09:08:12 <zach> and oddly enough, my wife's machine defaulted to 'defaults' instead of MS-Windows. (I think) because my interface now looks like hers
09:08:21 <warlord> paparent_: I'd have to look at the code, but I believe it computes the tax on each item and then sums the taxes at the end.. Because each item could go into a different tax location so it was "easier" to do it that way.
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09:08:35 <andi5> i wonder where these settings come from.... maybe gaim adds them :)
09:08:38 <warlord> It does (should) round each item
09:08:53 <zach> ahh
09:08:59 <zach> i've got gaim :)
09:09:02 <zach> and she doesnt'
09:09:05 <andi5> *G*
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09:12:13 <zach> time to go to work.. gotta keep making entires in the deposits column :)
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09:27:20 <R0lf> did r16033 have build issues?
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09:30:57 <hampton> R0lf: no. builds fine. There's one failure during 'make check'.
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09:55:31 <andi5> hampton: are you around?
09:55:46 <hampton> yes
09:55:54 <andi5> hampton: or directly: will .... Date_Init("TZ=UTC") if ($^O eq "MSWin32" && !$ENV{'TZ'}); .... work?
09:57:38 <hampton> lol. me? you're asking me? My perl is so rusty I'm lucky I don't get tetanus when working on F::Q. :-)
09:57:50 <andi5> hehe
09:58:08 * hampton grabs his book
09:58:17 <andi5> rofl
09:58:24 <andi5> hampton: do you hide?
09:58:43 <hampton> do I hide?
10:00:20 <hampton> I believe that line will work. if you are on a MSWin32 system that didn't set the TZ variable, you will call Date_Init and set the timezone to UTC.
10:01:33 <andi5> ooook... that is what i intended .... you never know.... sometimes perl barks about missing semicolons, sometimes it does not.... seems like it nearly eats everything, but do not expect something good to come out ;-)
10:01:40 <hampton> You may need to put parentheses around the os test. I don't recall the order of evaluation of operations.
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10:03:43 <andi5> ok, thanks
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14:16:36 <R0lf> Anybody using the official ubuntu packages here?
14:17:01 <warlord> not me
14:17:08 <R0lf> It seems the HBCI agent is not installed (or missing completely)
14:17:27 * R0lf checks launchpad
14:18:05 <jsled> R0lf: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=303234#msg50
14:20:28 <R0lf> jsled: and https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnucash/+bug/31789 in ubuntu
14:20:36 <R0lf> seems to be a known problem :-(
14:21:38 <jsled> very much, yes.
14:23:23 <R0lf> I am not sure that in ubuntu it is because of legal problems
14:23:31 <R0lf> It seems they do want to ship it.
14:23:50 <R0lf> -> status fix released for libaqbanking in LP bug
14:27:36 <R0lf> jsled: BTW, I used to have an installation with HBCI (never got it to play along with my bank, though) from geole.info before
14:27:55 <jsled> While not "illegal", it is against the license for them to distribute it as well.
14:27:57 <R0lf> So unless this got deinstalled when I upgraded to the official ubuntu packages this stuff should still be there.
14:28:03 <R0lf> jsled: I know
14:28:46 <R0lf> I'd be fine if they provided the non-compiled stuff read for "apt-get --compile blah"
14:28:54 <R0lf> ready
14:29:35 <R0lf> BTW, this one (the blockers in the debian bug) again be a very nice one for a bounty
14:31:51 <warlord> R0lf: have they been pushed upstream to us?
14:32:31 <R0lf> you mean the debian bugs?
14:32:37 <R0lf> I'd have to check
14:32:48 <R0lf> You'd be in a better position to know
14:33:44 <warlord> I dont look at debian bugs... so I wouldn't know
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15:02:29 <chris> http://lifehacker.com/software/early-adopter-download-of-the-day/gnucash-personal-accounting-software-v-211-windowslinux-256612.php
15:04:02 <jsled> nifty. :)
15:05:00 <warlord> neat
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15:20:15 <chris> interesting comment about the gtk windows theme
15:22:03 <warlord> yeah.
15:22:14 <warlord> I wonder if we should set that by default?
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15:25:08 <hampton> http://www.ziff.net/404/404.htm
15:27:03 <warlord> cute
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16:03:14 <cortana> Windows/Linux eh
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16:07:12 <cortana> dear god, people use spreadsheets for their accounting!
16:08:39 <warlord> heh
16:09:20 <cortana> and (off topic now) ... "-it looks like you can install gnucash using Automatix2."
16:09:23 <cortana> AND APT FOR GODS SAKE
16:09:26 <cortana> </rant>
16:09:33 <jsled> yeah, that was my comment ... I guess it's not approved yet.
16:15:20 <andi5> nice to see them using the double-entry system.... (imbalance-usd) .... somehow this influences my view of the story ;-)
16:15:51 <jsled> heh heh.
16:16:21 <andi5> oh... opening balances.... well...
16:17:15 <warlord> I think the "imbalance-XXX" accounts were a BAD idea. Damn Linas!
16:20:25 <andi5> is there a central place where we document environment variables that affect gnucash?
16:21:14 * andi5 would like to add GNC_PERL (wperl if available)
16:24:22 <warlord> I dont think so. You could start one.
16:25:08 <andi5> actually i think it would suffice to have it in "gnucash --help"... i do not know whether that is possible, though
16:25:22 <jsled> man page?
16:25:41 <jsled> I don't expect programs to list env args in --help, just command-line options.
16:25:51 <andi5> ah right.... well, man is not available in my msys environment, that is why i tend to forget about it
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17:15:43 <Kirsten> Hi, can anyone tell me whether I can change the default language for GnuCash under Windows?
17:15:47 <Kirsten> and if so, how?
17:16:01 <andi5> Kirsten: what language do you see and what do you want to see?
17:16:23 <Kirsten> well, my operating system is in German so it's assuming I want it to be in German
17:16:28 <Kirsten> but I just want it plain English :)
17:17:42 <andi5> Kirsten, go to your systemsteuerung, system, erweitert, systemumgebungsvariablen and export LANG=C .... this might change the language of other programs as well, though
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17:17:55 <Kirsten> that's alright... hang on i'll try
17:18:14 * andi5 hangs
17:19:39 <Kirsten> do I just add "export LANG=C " to the system variables?
17:19:54 <andi5> no, LANG is the name, C is the value
17:21:01 <Kirsten> hmmm... there is no variable LANG?!
17:21:05 <andi5> no
17:21:32 <Kirsten> *confused*
17:21:34 <andi5> that is what "Neu" is for :)
17:21:49 <Kirsten> so I do add LANG=C to the system variables?
17:22:14 <andi5> Kirsten: do you have a dialog window with title "Umgebungsvariablen" now?
17:22:18 <Kirsten> yep
17:22:27 <andi5> you see two "Neu" buttons... click the lower one
17:22:53 <andi5> LANG <tab> C <enter> <OK>
17:23:12 <Kirsten> quickly need to log in as admin... sec
17:23:21 <andi5> well
17:23:30 <andi5> you can use the user settings as well
17:23:33 <andi5> :-)
17:24:24 <andi5> sorry for the inconvenience
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17:26:36 <Kirsten2> ok, i'm back
17:27:09 <Kirsten2> right... clicked "new" (or neu... :-D )
17:27:19 <Kirsten2> and set name to LANG
17:27:23 <Kirsten2> and value to C
17:27:24 <Kirsten2> is that right?
17:27:26 <andi5> yep
17:27:48 <Kirsten2> is that it?
17:27:54 <Kirsten2> do I have to restart or something?
17:28:01 <andi5> (it is even less than that, but you will read it once you switch back ;-))
17:28:08 <andi5> noooo.. restart? what the ;-)
17:28:26 <andi5> buy a new computer? gnucash-capable one?
17:28:36 <Kirsten2> oh yippie works
17:28:43 <Kirsten2> lol no comment
17:28:52 <Kirsten2> please save me the whole linux-windows debate :-P
17:28:57 <andi5> lol :-)
17:29:10 <Kirsten2> i've studies computer science (yes I know it doesn't show) and had enough ranting from my lecturers about windows
17:29:15 <Kirsten2> :D
17:29:26 <Kirsten2> well, thanks a lot for your help...
17:29:37 <Kirsten2> and very good translation :-P (you're not German are you?)
17:29:49 <andi5> Kirsten2: you are welcome
17:30:05 <andi5> Kirsten2: dank cstim :)
17:30:23 <Kirsten2> :-)
17:30:39 <Kirsten2> very well... gotta go to bed cos I've got a final exam in the morning ;-)
17:30:45 <andi5> good luck!
17:30:59 <Kirsten2> thank you :) talk soon! :)
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18:44:12 <andi5> jsled: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434735 .... wow :-D
18:45:27 <jsled> yeah ... I mean, I read the console output, of course, but the stack trace was totally different. And I know that the tree model has those iter-stamp assertions all over the place.
18:45:59 <andi5> it is nasty
18:47:54 <hampton> Wow, a gentoo user who's not up to date? i think you must spend too much time writing code. :-)
18:48:24 * hampton is waiting for RedHat to push out 2.10.10. ;-)
18:48:37 <jsled> heh. well, 2.10.11 is ~x86, so it was quickly available, but not yet stable.
18:48:53 <andi5> bugzilla does not show me bugs but only "27 bugs found"... that is weird
18:49:59 <andi5> seems to have problems with stagger headers...
18:53:26 <warlord> hampton: waiting for FC7?
18:55:22 <hampton> I installed F7t4 on a MacMini last night. I now need to see if I can get MythTV working on it.
18:56:29 <warlord> Neat.
18:56:58 <hampton> The slickest thin about the install...... BootCamp's live repartitioning of the hard drive.
18:57:04 <warlord> my new laptop finally arrived in CA today. It should get to me tomorrow or Thursday. I'm debating FC6 or F7t4
18:57:12 <warlord> neat
18:57:40 <hampton> I'd do F7t4 on a new install. ATRpms already has packages. Haven't checked for livna packages though.
18:58:15 <warlord> Except I refuse to use ATRpms because I can't rebuild from source without using extra glue.
18:58:30 <hampton> I only use livna for the fglrx driver, so the need for that repo would depend on your video chip.
18:58:55 <hampton> Axel never made an rpm with his macros?
19:00:26 <warlord> ??
19:01:02 <warlord> Axel has an "atrpms-devel" package that you need in order to build from ATRpms SRPMS. It adds a bunch of rpm macros and who knows what other crap, which I think is wrong.
19:01:13 <warlord> An SRPM should just build.
19:02:04 <hampton> using the macros distributed by redhat, but not the macros distributed by axel?
19:02:18 <warlord> yes.
19:02:30 <warlord> also, last time I tried, Axel had packages that overwrite packages distributed by Red Hat.
19:02:33 <andi5> before i fall asleep, i need some hint..... well, there are "perl" and "wperl". if we use the primer from within gnucash, it will open a new console window as long as it is running.... wperl would fix it for us... that is what i want GNC_PERL for, but how i do i promote that setting? do you think that adding a text along "hey, i see wperl and it is good. please set GNC_PERL to wperl" in install-fq-mods.bat (a start menu item) is a good idea?
19:02:36 <warlord> (but that was many moons ago)
19:04:11 <warlord> okay, off to the pool. later.
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20:30:37 <zach> chris and warlord: about the windows gtk theme by default you mentioned earlier today...
20:30:51 <zach> IMHO, the 'default' theme looks better
20:31:37 <zach> not all is great with the gtk-wimp theme (at least with gnucash) either
20:31:38 <zach> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434754
20:31:48 <zach> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432021
20:39:49 <zach> The best thing about the wimp theme is that it uses the windows system colors
20:40:05 <zach> here's a triple-screen-shot for comparison
20:40:07 <zach> http://www.sadecki.net/linux-top_windows-wimp-middle_windows-default-bottom.png
20:42:17 <zach> fyi, the linux shot is remote X to the windows machine running Xming
21:01:14 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
21:01:16 <warlord> zach: thanks.
21:04:10 <zach> np
21:05:20 <warlord> I see what you mean
21:07:19 <zach> i think the most interesting thing is the font sizes...
21:07:44 <zach> and they're all supposed to be the same, AFAIK
21:09:08 <zach> sorta I guess... the windows fonts default to 8, gtk defaults to 12 (i think)
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23:12:55 <dbr> are gnucash shared libraries intended to be shared in the generic sense -- i.e., with other applications using them?
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23:19:44 <derek> Hi
23:20:22 <derek> I have some questions regarding some accountancy terms as I've not studied accounts. Please can anyone help me understand them?
23:20:37 <derek> like, what is a Placeholder account?
23:21:32 <dbr> It's like a heading for subaccounts. Placeholder account do not contain any transactions
23:23:53 <derek> ok
23:23:58 <derek> what is Equity?
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23:26:45 <dbr> The only thing in my Equity account is opening balances -- everyone starts with more than $0 by the time they get software
23:27:24 <derek> but I did not put anything in Equity. I don't know what it is for
23:27:47 <dbr> it's for opening balances
23:28:09 <derek> I see
23:28:19 <derek> got it
23:28:46 <derek> what is Reconciled balance?
23:29:43 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
23:29:50 <dbr> The sum of the opening balance and any transactions that you mark as reconciled -- usually those transactions that have shown up on a bank statement
23:30:10 <dbr> The reconciled balance usually agrees with a balance on a paper or email statement
23:30:18 <warlord> reconciliation is the process of making sure what's on your monthly bank statement matches what you have in gnucash.
23:31:01 <dbr> I can tell when my explanations get too convoluted :)
23:32:29 <derek> I don't understand what reconciled is :/
23:32:47 <derek> (can I edit Opening Balance of my wallet after I created the account?)
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23:33:38 <dbr> you can edit opening balance any time, but usually you only need to until the first month or two end
23:34:02 <derek> how? by editing Equity?
23:34:21 <dbr> yes. but it shouldn't be a habit
23:34:26 <derek> ok
23:34:43 <derek> yeah later I must be adding it using the Receive section
23:34:57 <dbr> yep
23:35:20 <derek> have you used grisbi?
23:35:47 <dbr> no
23:36:12 <derek> when I am adding new transactions in Cash in Wallet account, the "Transfer" says 'Imbalance' , why?
23:36:51 <dbr> you need 2 splits for each transaction, 1 where the money comes from and 1 where it goes
23:37:26 <dbr> if you only enter one side of the transaction, gnucash adds the other to the imbalance
23:37:35 <derek> I see
23:38:21 <derek> can you tell which fields correspond to "where the money comes from" and "where it goes" respectively?
23:38:33 <derek> "where it goes" - Transfer
23:38:38 <derek> "where it comes from" - ?
23:39:31 <dbr> for cash, where it goes is usually an expense account, where it comes from is the Cash account
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23:40:33 <dbr> I almost always enter transactions from an account register: cash, checking, or credit card
23:41:14 <jsled> The register columns which identify "comes from" and "where it goes" depends on which register style you're using.
23:41:54 <dbr> I almost always use Cash, Checking, or credit card account registers.
23:41:55 <jsled> "reconciled" is the state where your books are in agreement with the bank's books.
23:43:17 <zach> Personally, I think using the auto-split register style makes the most logical sense, especially for a beginner.
23:43:35 <jsled> aye.
23:43:56 <zach> it makes it very clear that every transaction has to have a "from" and "to" account
23:44:03 <derek> hm
23:44:07 <derek> and how to enable that?
23:44:21 <zach> view -> auto-split
23:44:42 <zach> then select a transaction in the register
23:44:44 <derek> ok
23:44:50 <zach> and it'll "auto-split"
23:44:59 <derek> but it still says Imbalance (will it effect from a new transaction?)
23:45:11 <zach> imbalance is the "other" account
23:45:52 <zach> for example: cash "from" checking acct, "to" cash in wallet
23:46:04 <zach> or "from" cash in wallet, "to" lunch
23:46:47 <warlord> derek: if it says that then you haven't balanced the transaction. debits == credits.. Each transaction must touch at least two accounts.
23:46:55 <zach> I'm lazy and I do not have "cash in wallet" as an asset. It is an expense, becuase I don't track where all the cash goes.
23:47:08 <warlord> that IS lazy
23:47:16 <zach> :)
23:47:42 <zach> If I really want to know where my money's going I use plastic and download
23:47:56 <warlord> i still keep track of my cash purchases.
23:48:18 <zach> although, I still to a 'cash' to 'expense:something' transaction for certain things
23:48:22 <zach> if I want to track them
23:48:42 <warlord> derek: have you read the gnucash docs?
23:48:52 <warlord> I bet you haven't, because most of these questions are answered in the docs.
23:48:56 <derek> ooo.. so I must choose an 'expense' account when I'm entering transactions in the wallet account
23:49:00 <derek> warlord, no
23:50:23 <warlord> derek: yes, you have to choose an expense account.. or any particular "transfer" account.
23:50:35 <warlord> derek: you should. I HIGHLY recommend you read the Tutorial and Concepts guide.
23:51:47 <derek> ok where is it?
23:52:15 <zach> derek: warlord is right...
23:52:20 <derek> warlord, I don't like so many entries in the expense account. Can I create my own account file or I HAVE to select an account type in the beginning?
23:53:00 <zach> you can set it up any way you like
23:53:11 <zach> completely custom accounts
23:53:12 <derek> I want to delete the existing account file. Where is it located? I must close gnucash first?
23:53:34 <derek> (I found the tutorials)
23:53:45 <warlord> File -> New File
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23:53:57 <derek> (but it's not opening :/ ..tutorials not opening)
23:54:06 <warlord> derek: www.gnucash.org
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23:54:19 <derek> warlord, and where is the existing account file stored? in ~/.gnucash?
23:54:35 <warlord> it's wherever you saved it. Look in the History in the File menu
23:55:18 <derek> ok
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23:56:30 <derek> How to password protect?
23:56:44 <warlord> use an encrypted filesystem.
23:56:48 <warlord> I recomend encfs
23:58:18 <warlord> derek: are you writing an article or something?
23:58:58 <derek> no
23:59:05 <derek> why?
23:59:41 <warlord> just the bredth of questions you're asking makes me think you're a green reporter trying to understand the program without taking the time to read the docs or actually play with it for more than few minutes.