2007-04-30 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:09:50 <spiritraveller> Hi, I would like to have my computer (a Debian desktop) and my wife's computer (a Windows laptop) both be able to access the same GnuCash data...
00:10:23 <spiritraveller> We do not need to access it simultaneously (though that would be nice).
00:12:06 <spiritraveller> What is the best solution? Set up the files on a Samba share and ensure that we access them one at a time? If we do that, will we run into problems due to her running v2.1.0 while I'm running v2.0.5? Thanks in advance for any help.
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05:08:39 <AbuHuraira> if I use a debit card (not credit card), should that be tracked as Liability or Expenses ?
05:12:23 <spiritraveller> A debit card is just another way to access your bank account. Unlike a credit card, it doesn't create a balance of its own, so it doesn't need an account separate from the bank account.
05:14:39 <spiritraveller> ...unless you are not going to bother tracking the things you buy with it. In that case, you could create an expense called "Purchases By Debit Card" (or some such), and that would work.
05:15:18 <AbuHuraira> spiritraveller: aha, thanks
05:15:28 <spiritraveller> you're welcome
05:16:37 <AbuHuraira> what's the difference between checking & savings accounts ?
05:18:27 <spiritraveller> not much other than their intended use. the bank fees may differ, and a savings account might not allow for anything but personal withdrawals (ie no checks or online billpay)
05:22:19 <AbuHuraira> I see
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05:40:15 <AbuHuraira> do I have to set multiple accounts for each currency I have in the bank ?
05:40:27 <AbuHuraira> it is the same bank
05:49:59 <spiritraveller> I don't know about that.
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09:04:06 <warlord> good morning, all
09:04:15 <jsled> hey warlord
09:05:21 <jsled> spiritraveller: a shared drive would work. Also, remote-X or remote-desktop, of course.
09:05:56 <jsled> spiritraveller: 2.2 will not be backward-compatible with 2.0.x for a subset of features. Scheduled Transactions in particular.
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09:30:49 <hampton> good morning, wandering warlord. long time no see.
09:33:16 <warlord> I've been on a small caribbean island for the last week.
09:34:15 <jsled> excellent.
09:34:17 <jsled> how was it?
09:34:53 <warlord> Wonderful. I got my Scuba Cert!
09:35:34 <warlord> It was warm, and nice, and mostly relaxing.. Although the scuba work took a lot of time and effort.
09:41:56 <warlord> I've only got 2000+ emails to wade through.
09:42:00 <warlord> That's my plan for today.
09:44:44 <hampton> Sounds like a really nice vacation.
09:45:36 <hampton> Scuba in warm water must be so much more fun than in cold. I got my cert in the Pacific ocean, and I had a headache at the end of every day from the cold water.
09:45:50 <warlord> Were you in a wet suit or dry suit?
09:46:30 <warlord> I actually used a "cutoff" wetsuit, but one of the other divers we met on the wreck-dive didn't wear any protection at all.
09:46:50 <warlord> If I decide to do much diving around here I think I'd invest in a dry suit.
09:48:27 <hampton> wet suit.
09:48:47 <warlord> With hood?
09:49:03 <hampton> Seems like toe water in the caribbean should be warm enough to not need a suit. At least in shallower water.
09:49:10 <hampton> Yes, hood and all.
09:50:11 <warlord> Maybe the hood was too tight?
09:50:12 <hampton> The pacific coast current in summer has water coming down from Alaska, and where I was diving was right at the end of a finger of the pacific trench.
09:50:23 <warlord> And yeah, the water was probably warm enough not to need a suit.
09:50:52 <hampton> Could have been the hood and not the water. True.
09:55:42 <warlord> Anyways, yeah, so I had a lot of fun underwater, and now I want to go dive more.
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10:00:44 <cstim> warlord: hi! glad to hear you had a great time!
10:00:44 <gncbot> cstim: Sent 3 days, 16 hours, and 39 minutes ago: <conrad> Congratulations!
10:01:05 <warlord> hiya cstim
10:01:10 <warlord> thanks
10:01:48 <cstim> warlord: conrad's congrats refer to my announcement that Maia is going to become the big sister by December.
10:02:57 <cstim> @tell conrad: thanks a lot.
10:02:57 <gncbot> cstim: The operation succeeded.
10:03:22 <warlord> CONGRATS!
10:07:31 <hampton> I'd love to dive again somewhere warm. 8-)
10:10:10 <warlord> Well, there's always FL/Bahamas.. Relatively easy to get to.
10:10:40 <cstim> jsled: just in case you'll go through the 2006 ChangeLog: I've double-checked all cstim commits today and in all cases the text of the manual ChangeLog is also in SVN. You can safely skip those, at least.
10:11:30 <jsled> cstim: noted, thanks. I really should just sit down and do what I promised, yeah. :/
10:12:21 <cstim> jsled: heh. This sentence is so true...
10:12:37 * cstim is writing about SVD in his thesis
10:12:48 <cstim> I keep typing SVN instead of SVD :-)
10:12:51 <jsled> heh.
10:12:56 <cstim> SVD = singular value decomposition
10:13:10 <cstim> linear algebra stuff.
10:14:03 <warlord> Heh!
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10:33:14 <warlord> jsled: FYI, trunk fails to build the ChangeLog properly for me: http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5746
10:34:52 <jsled> warlord: I think you mean to tell cstim; he changed that xslt recently.
10:35:11 <warlord> Oh.
10:39:06 <warlord> Well, let me see if it continues to build and pass "make check".
10:39:51 <hampton> There a failure in test-lots that's been there for a while.
10:40:24 <hampton> I started to track it down, but then it got late, and then I never picked up tracking it down.
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10:40:14 <warlord> Oh, indeed. Looks like a SEGV.
10:40:32 <warlord> cstim: could you look at http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5746 ?? It fails building the ChangeLog.
10:40:35 <warlord> (for me, on FC5)
10:41:20 <cstim> warlord: those xsltproc errors that you see don't mention anything that I've changed in r16030. But just for kicks you could try r16029, run "make ChangeLog.svn", and see whether this has the same problem (it should).
10:41:27 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
10:42:16 <warlord> Hm
10:42:30 <warlord> xsltproc --version
10:42:30 <warlord> Using libxml 20623, libxslt 10115 and libexslt 812
10:42:30 <warlord> xsltproc was compiled against libxml 20623, libxslt 10115 and libexslt 812
10:42:30 <warlord> libxslt 10115 was compiled against libxml 20623
10:42:30 <warlord> libexslt 812 was compiled against libxml 20623
10:42:38 <warlord> (not sure if that matters)
10:42:49 <cstim> For me:
10:42:55 <cstim> xsltproc was compiled against libxml 20626, libxslt 10117 and libexslt 813
10:42:59 <cstim> errr
10:43:04 <cstim> Using libxml 20626, libxslt 10117 and libexslt 813
10:43:27 <cstim> which belong to package libxslt-1.1.17
10:44:05 <warlord> I have libxslt-1.1.15-1.2.1
10:45:37 <cstim> The NEWS from http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/news.html mention bug fixed in 1.1.16 and 1.1.17 that could be it, but we don't know
10:47:19 <cstim> @tell Wilddev Could you please run "rm ChangeLog; make ChangeLog on the most recent svn build to see whether it's working on your system?
10:47:19 <gncbot> cstim: Error: No closing quotation
10:48:12 <cstim> @tell Wilddev Could you please run "rm ChangeLog; make ChangeLog" on the most recent svn build to see whether it's working on your system?
10:48:12 <gncbot> cstim: The operation succeeded.
10:49:01 <warlord> let me see if there's an update, but I suspect not.
10:51:21 <warlord> Nope, no libxml or libxslt updates on FC5..
10:53:52 <jsled> gncbot: why should you care about a closing quotation?
10:53:52 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "why" is not a valid command.
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11:00:44 <cstim> warlord: once you've got some time (2000 emails, heh), I'd be interested to hear whether "make ChangeLog.svn" in r16029 worked or failed with the same error.
11:00:59 <cstim> see ya
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11:07:38 <cstim> warlord: does http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5747 fix the problem?
11:09:15 <warlord> cstim: no
11:09:32 <cstim> shoot.
11:10:56 <cstim> warlord: if you replace macros/scn2cl.xsl by the latest version of http://svn.collab.net/viewvc/svn/trunk/contrib/client-side/svn2cl/svn2cl.xsl?view=log , would it work then?
11:12:21 <warlord> THAT worked.
11:12:29 <cstim> sigh.
11:12:38 <warlord> Shall I commit that?
11:14:32 <cstim> no
11:15:07 <warlord> Ok.
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11:40:50 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
11:40:53 <warlord-afk> (lunch)
11:45:01 <cstim> warlord-afk: unfortunately that svn2cl.xsl doesn't work correctly - it still displays the commit messages of e.g. esodan although this shouldn't be displayed. So that svn2cl.xsl can't be used unmodified.
11:45:07 <cstim> (dinner)
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11:53:22 <cstim> warlord-afk: could you try http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/5748 ?
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11:57:33 <cstim> huh? lists.gnucash.org or svn.gnucash.org dead?
11:58:34 <andi5> both alive for me
11:58:42 <cstim> warlord-afk: the pastebin patch is no good because pastebin already parsed the &#10; entities instead of keeping them literally.
12:00:10 <andi5> cstim: what do you think about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434596 ? .... btw, would be cool if you would add yourself as qa contact for the windows component of gnucash in bugzilla ... we can also switch one day if you like :)
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12:01:19 <cstim> andi5: yes, I can be QA contact.
12:01:45 <andi5> btw, it built the changelog for me
12:01:56 <cstim> andi5: no, that suggestion will be closed as WONTFIX as long as we don't have something like a package manager that will manage the version dependencies for us.
12:03:27 <andi5> i would also argue that the binary actually would not schrumpf much :-)
12:03:57 <cstim> andi5: errr... probably yes, right.
12:04:21 <cstim> andi5: what was the difference between "assignee" and "QA contact" in bugzilla again?!? but whatever. I'm added.
12:04:34 <andi5> i am not sure whether there really is one
12:04:53 <cstim> see ya
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12:08:41 <andi5> @tell cstim http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/html/components.html ... if bugzilla does not distinguish except the "order", i think we do not care as well ;-)
12:08:41 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
12:10:31 <jsled> The assignee is the person who currently has responsibility for moving a bug forward. The QA contact is a maybe-different person who's tracking the bug from a QA perspective.
12:13:38 <andi5> but as long as "has reponsibility" does not mean that the assignee is spammed by reminder emails if he does not close the bug..... well...
12:15:36 <andi5> so... we have changelogs again.... but i can guarantee you that people will complain that they are not gnu standard conforming and information is missing.... ;-)
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12:36:36 <cstim> andi5: is svn.gnucash.org down?
12:36:36 <gncbot> cstim: Sent 27 minutes ago: <andi5> http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/html/components.html ... if bugzilla does not distinguish except the order , i think we do not care as well ;-)
12:37:19 <andi5> at least i can use trac to browse
12:37:25 <cstim> I cannot.
12:37:43 <andi5> svn up works too
12:37:55 <cstim> then warlord's firewall probably doesn't like me right now.
12:37:56 <andi5> hm... maybe you are blocked/firewalled somehow?
12:37:59 <cstim> yes
12:38:05 * cstim tries to reconnect.
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12:43:52 <warlord> @tell cstim Looks like the updated svn2cl.xsl changes you applied fix my problem.
12:43:53 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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14:24:57 <andi5> Rolf: any news regarding your interface language?
14:25:43 <Rolf> I cleaned out the installation dir and recompiled once but got the same result
14:26:12 <andi5> Rolf: what is the output of `strace -o out gnucash --help >/dev/null && cat out | grep gnucash.mo' ?
14:26:13 <Rolf> no further news
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14:37:45 <Taran> Look, people
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14:41:42 <warlord> Where? Where?
14:41:52 <Taran> Oh no, I'm sorry
14:41:52 * warlord ducks and hides
14:41:54 <hampton> Up in the air.....
14:41:55 <Taran> Just my imagination
14:42:01 <hampton> Its a bird..........
14:42:02 <jsled> Just bots here; boop boop bip beep.
14:42:09 <hampton> Its a plane.............
14:42:18 <Taran> We need positronic brains :/
14:43:14 <Taran> Anyway, I need help :(
14:43:23 <andi5> ok...
14:43:46 <warlord> don't we all?
14:44:01 <Taran> heh
14:44:21 <Taran> Anyway, I'm trying to import my quickbooks data into GNUCash
14:44:34 <Taran> I got it into CSV files, but it doesn't like them :/
14:44:53 <jsled> well, it doesn't import CSV.
14:44:56 <andi5> damnit, this gsoc thingy just takes too long...
14:45:01 <jsled> heh.
14:45:11 <Taran> It has an option for it under import :(
14:45:36 <warlord> 2.1 does, but.... it probably doesn't really work.
14:45:52 <Taran> I noticed that :(
14:46:00 <andi5> Taran: so what version do you use?
14:46:11 <Taran> I'm trying to use the Windows version >_>
14:46:43 <jsled> Wow. 2.1.1 crashes opening my datafile.
14:46:56 <Taran> So 2.1.1 >_>
14:46:58 <andi5> jsled: is that good?
14:47:15 <jsled> No, it's really bad.
14:47:25 <warlord> Taran: the short answer: CSV isn't supported, even if there's a menu item for it.
14:47:31 <Taran> :\
14:47:50 <Taran> The long answer is yes but you have to go through so much trouble it's not worth it?
14:47:58 <andi5> we should remove it then...
14:48:07 <andi5> (at least shortly before 2.2)
14:48:14 <jsled> http://pastebin.ca/465960
14:49:15 <andi5> ouch
14:49:17 <warlord> andi5: yes, before 2.2 we should remove ALL the menu items for features that don't work right...
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14:49:39 <Rol1> that does it now :-D
14:50:06 <andi5> hm? gnucash comes up german if your nick on irc is Rol1???
14:50:25 <Rol1> no, the line before that
14:50:43 <Rol1> Strange, somebody stole it while I was logged
14:50:51 <andi5> sorry
14:50:54 <Rol1> Would not have thought that was possible
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14:51:51 <Taran> oh sweet
14:51:54 <R0lf> logged in
14:51:56 <Taran> we have online banking
14:52:09 <andi5> Taran: what do you mean?
14:52:11 * Taran goes to check for exportable file types
14:52:40 <R0lf> But my compiled gnucash crashes
14:52:52 * R0lf goes to "svn up" and recompile
14:54:36 <Taran> Does GNUCash like .qif or .ofx more?
14:55:09 <andi5> [ot] bye bye tetex *snief* ... long live, tex live
14:55:18 <andi5> Taran: yep
14:55:19 <jsled> andi5: hmm?
14:55:33 <Taran> That wasn't a yes or no question >_>
14:56:25 <andi5> jsled: tetex is unmaintained since a while and debian/ubuntu switched to texlive (dist-upgrade just purged tetex)
14:56:46 <warlord> Taran: the qif and ofx importers are... different.
14:57:03 <warlord> we're hoping that a QIF import re-write during the GSoC will allow us to combine the UIs.
14:57:21 <Taran> Which do you suggest I use?
14:58:08 <warlord> whichever form you get? It really doesn't matter.
14:58:18 <Taran> Alright, thanks
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15:04:55 <warlord> you're welcome
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16:28:24 <warlord> hampton: the test-lots failure is do to an abort in a PERR() call: http://pastebin.ca/466111
16:28:40 <warlord> The error is: * 16:26:18 OTHER <gnc.engine> [xaccSplitSetValue()] numeric error in converting the split value's denominator
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16:30:12 <hampton> Right. But somehow [num = -36560142815320, denom = 1] ends up getting converted to [num = -2, denom = 0], or something like that.
16:31:36 <warlord> right. -2/0 is an error code..
16:31:39 <warlord> and the error is correct.
16:31:53 <warlord> in this case the currency denominator is 1000000
16:32:03 <hampton> Oh, that's an error code?
16:32:12 <warlord> so.. -36560142815320 * 1000000 overflows an int64
16:32:16 <warlord> yep.
16:32:45 <warlord> -2/0 is GNC_ERROR_OVERFLOW
16:34:24 <hampton> So do we need bound the values produced by get_random_gnc_numeric?
16:35:20 <warlord> um, maybe?
16:44:34 <warlord> perhaps we need get_random_gnc_numeric_matching_denom() where we can specify the 'matching' denominator so we dont overflow.
16:47:58 <warlord> (either that or perhaps a get_random_gnc_numeric_for_commodity() API)
16:52:45 <hampton> Interesting... this comment is already in get_random_gnc_numeric: "Arbitrary random numbers can cause pointless overflow during calculations. Limit dynamic range in hopes of avoiding overflow."
16:53:51 <hampton> And the random number retrieved for the numerator is divided by 1e5. Should this be a divide by 1e6, since that the denominator that's causing the problem?
16:55:09 <warlord> Sure
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17:03:52 <warlord> hampton: I'm testing with that change right now to see if it solves this crash.
17:04:41 <hampton> me too. I saw a new error I'd never seen before, so I'm retrying with a clean tree
17:06:13 <warlord> Huh.. Looks like it still fails..
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17:10:59 <warlord> Nah, adding two zeros still doesn't solve the crash -- although it did change the error message
17:11:19 <warlord> (I didn't notice the change at 1 zero.. retesting)
17:11:58 <hampton> FWIW, I just ran 'make check' on 2.0.x and it doesn't have this problem.
17:12:54 <hampton> Unless I got lucky with the random numbers.
17:13:17 <warlord> I suspect part of the issue is the logging change.
17:16:13 <jsled> I don't recall that breaking at the time. Specifically, I recall `make check` being clean-but-noisy.
17:16:50 <jsled> Up to a few weeks afterward, when I went back in an aborted attempt to remove/resolve some of the noisiness.
17:17:22 <warlord> Hmm.. True..
17:17:23 <hampton> The random numbers seem only pseudo-random. Without the proposed change, test-lots always fails on the 22nd/23rd test. With the extra 0, the new error always appears on the 6th/7th test.
17:17:41 <hampton> Binary search anyone?
17:18:08 <warlord> The TEST is pseudo-random: srand(0);
17:18:25 <warlord> So the test itself is 100% reproducible, instead of semi-random failures.
17:26:29 * hampton checks out -r15537 as a starting point
17:35:17 <jsled> Oh, wow. 2.0.5 also crashes on my datafile. :(
17:36:53 <warlord> Really?
17:36:57 <warlord> That's.... unfortunate.
17:37:26 <jsled> Yeah, as it's my 2006/2007 books ... but at least it means 2.1.1 isn't fundamentally broken :)
17:41:35 <warlord> ok
17:41:46 <warlord> I wonder what's in your datafile that's choking gnucash?
17:42:43 <jsled> it's dying in gtk_tree_model_get_valist, as invoked by gnc-tree-view-account.c
17:42:47 <jsled> (on 2.0.5)
17:43:09 <jsled> I can open --nofile and at least one other datafile ok.
17:46:29 <warlord> weird.
17:48:10 <hampton> jsled is vindicated. r15537 passed 'make check' :-)
17:48:20 <warlord> heh
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18:29:15 <hampton> Well, r15906 passes 'make check'. I'm starting the next iteration and going to the gym. I'll continue the binary search when I get back.
18:29:54 * jsled notes a bit randomly that `git` has a nifty `git bisect` sub-tool for doing this kind of work.
18:30:58 <jsled> Also, there's something about the open tabs/window state that I have that's causing my crash; just copying the datafile and opening that doesn't trigger, but if I then copy ~/.gnucash/books-2006.gnc into ~/.gnucash/bad-books.gnc (with guid fixup) it does exhibit.
18:31:06 * jsled keeps digging.
18:33:14 <hampton> Hmm, are you saying we made the wrong scm choice? :-P
18:33:30 <jsled> nope. :)
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19:28:12 <jsled> hampton: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434735
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19:32:38 <jsled> Huh. You don't get hte "simple dup finder" option unless the bug is UNCONFIRMED or NEEDINFO, which is a bug, imho.
19:41:42 <warlord> Weird.
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20:32:57 <zach> so I just noticed that gnucash in windows shows the blue line after 5/1/2007, and in linux shows it before... It's not 5/1 yet at my locale, so linux is right... what's the deal with windows?
20:36:59 <hampton> need you ask? Its windows. ;-)
20:37:35 <warlord> zach: it's 5/1/07 UTC
20:37:57 <zach> warlord: i guessed that's where it was coming from
20:38:10 <zach> and my datafile is over on the linux machine
20:38:27 <warlord> Yeah, windows timezones are... weird.. and the APIs probably return the time in UTC instead of localtime.
20:38:59 <zach> i guess I should write it up
20:39:45 <zach> another windows/linux difference I noticed... the icons on the toolbar are small on windows and biger on linux
20:40:06 <zach> looks like 16x16 on windows, and maybe 24x24 on linux?
20:47:41 <warlord> I think we support different sizes of icons.
20:49:15 <zach> but they should default to the same size right?
20:49:39 <zach> and are the changable? (with user options somewhere)
20:51:17 <zach> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434754
20:51:25 <zach> screenshot attached to the bug
20:53:43 <warlord> I honestly dont know. I just remember seeing a changeset that allows using the different sizes.
20:53:55 <warlord> Are you using the same version on both win32 and linux?
20:54:02 <zach> yep
20:54:08 <warlord> just making sure.
20:54:15 <zach> both svn builds
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21:18:05 <hampton> OK, now this is just bizarre. r15990 is when the test-lots check started failing. r15590 is a single line change. Even stranger, its this: http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/15990
21:18:13 <hampton> Second order effects anyone? :-(
21:19:41 <chris> 15_5_90 or 15990?
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21:20:53 <MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
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21:22:15 <warlord> *sighs*
21:24:57 <hampton> 15_9_90
21:25:20 <hampton> IRC spam. wheee....
21:25:56 <hampton> is that MindUs, as in "don't mind us"?
21:30:53 <warlord> no idea
21:37:47 <hampton> Yep, pull the one line from r15990 out of head, and head passed 'make check'
21:38:05 <warlord> really??? how weird!
21:39:08 <hampton> I suspect the random transaction code is choosing currencies at random too.
21:41:58 <warlord> it probably is, but why would that affect anything, unless some scu is an issue
21:42:58 <hampton> right. I'm guessing that with that line the test-lots code is getting a sku of 100 where it got 1 before, or something like that.
21:43:18 <chris> Either that, or it's a secret plot by the Moldovians to take over the world's financial institutions...
21:43:26 <hampton> lol
21:43:28 <chris> or the RNG code.
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21:49:46 <warlord> chris: oh? what do you mean by that?
21:51:52 <chris> (It was a joke.)
21:53:34 <warlord> Oh.
21:53:45 <warlord> Well, it COULD still be the RNG (or at least how it's used)
21:53:50 <warlord> Unlikely, but possible.
21:54:01 <warlord> The extra commodity DID change the choice of commodity.
21:54:32 <warlord> It's more likely a broken test than broken code, but it COULD be broken code.
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22:11:24 <pawlowsm> are there any instructions for importing from CSV. All I could find was convert the CSV to QIF, and import QIF. But there is a import from CSV menu item in 2.1.0 windows
22:13:05 <warlord> pawlowsm: it doesn't work.
22:13:14 <warlord> you still need to do that conversion.
22:13:21 <warlord> the 2.1.x code is still test code.
22:14:31 <pawlowsm> thanks.
22:14:34 <warlord> NP
22:14:37 <warlord> g'night all
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23:51:10 <jsled> ade: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348364
23:54:22 <ade> jsled: thanks. So does this mean if I just enter my opening balances, and continue on, everything will be fine?
23:55:36 <jsled> yes, it will be fine.
23:55:46 <jsled> the values are intact; the printing is not.
23:55:58 <jsled> what distro, btw?
23:57:34 <ade> Thanks! gnucash 2.0 looks much nicer than 1.6 (I suppose because of gtk+ 2.x). I'm running it on fedora 5, I built the rpm using the provided spec file.
23:58:16 <jsled> yeah, probably. 1.6?!? wow.
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23:59:47 <ade> jsled: I think I was using 1.6, not sure anymore. I quit using it about 2 years ago, but trying to get back on top of things...