2007-04-25 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:26:43 <Rol1> Howdy!
09:28:12 *** Rol1 is now known as R0lf
09:36:53 <jsled> hello
09:36:56 <R0lf> It seems that German account profiles like SKR04 are only offered if LC_MESSAGES is set to de_DE. While I understand that SKR04 does not make much sense outside of Germany I do wonder why gnucash believes this should be decided on LC_MESSAGES. Comments?
09:37:14 <jsled> because we generally switch things like that on the locale.
09:37:53 <jsled> Though I think in recent years we've come to a concensus that we should having such things be user-selectable, but default based on the value of locale.
09:38:14 <jsled> But that consensus hasn't translated into changed code.
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09:40:44 <jsled> FWIW, it shouldn't be LC_MESSAGES specifically, but LANG[UAGE] ... though I'm not sure exactly what the interaction between all of those variables is.
09:41:26 <jsled> AIUI, if you run `LANG=de_DE; LC_MESSAGES=C; gnucash`, you should get a translated app, including the SKR04 account tree, but en (C) messages.
09:41:44 * jsled tries...
09:44:00 <jsled> No, in fact, that doesn't work as I'd expect. :(
09:46:19 <R0lf> jsled: See, I agree with that. LANG is set to de_DE for (as well as all other vars). But I have LC_MESSAGES set to en_US so I get English menus and warning. The German stuff is sometimes hard to tolerate and it also helps interaction in IRC if you know the precise English terms.
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09:47:25 <R0lf> If gnucash were to act on LANG, I'd be more than happy. This is what I'd expected if anything.
09:47:39 <jsled> Hmm. Maybe I just had a misunderstanding about what LC_MESSAGES controlled, then. I thought it didn't affect application UI, only error messages.
09:48:46 <R0lf> it affects both
09:48:53 <jsled> But, then ... yeah. Those files straddle the gap. Some are functionally different in different locales (SKR04), and some are translated based on locale.
09:49:29 <R0lf> Is it possible to make them visible, i.e. to pull them up explicitly? That would be at least a workaround for me.
09:49:40 <jsled> E.g., we don't have SKR04 in lang=C.
09:50:01 <jsled> Sure: start with LANG=de_DE. :)
09:50:10 <R0lf> Starting a console and "LC_MESSAGES=de_DE.utf8 gnucash" is a MAJOR pain, especially when that nice shiny icon is right there to click
09:50:32 <jsled> change the icon, then.
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09:50:41 <R0lf> jsled: No, that is not sufficient. I do start with LANG=de_DE
09:50:52 <jsled> Once the hierarchy is included in your book's chart of accounts, you can change the locale back to whatever you want.
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09:51:37 <R0lf> Yes, but I need to start new accounts frequently at this point in time. It is also for bug triaging purposes. SKR04 has some bugs which I am working on.
09:52:26 <jsled> So make another icon. I don't see how it's a "MAJOR" pain. There's a simple and clear workaround.
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09:57:05 <R0lf> Are you sure?
09:57:27 <jsled> ...of what?
09:57:27 <R0lf> I just tried creating a new icon (which I'd rather not, I hate clutter)
09:58:04 <R0lf> But "LC_MESSAGES=de_DE.utf8 gnucash %f" as the command line won't work since LC_MESSAGES is of course not a command
09:58:18 <R0lf> I just copied the icon that was there.
09:58:35 <R0lf> I am on Gnome/Ubuntu edhy
09:58:37 <R0lf> edgy
09:59:07 <fell> if you use bash, try "export LC...;gnucash"
10:00:31 <jsled> Or make a shell script, and use that as the icon command name.
10:00:57 <jsled> R0lf: I'm sure you'd "rather not", but that's the definition of a workaround, eh? :)
10:01:22 <R0lf> ;-)
10:01:29 <R0lf> Well, let's try some more
10:02:18 <R0lf> fell: Failed to execute child process "export". Although I found that strange.
10:02:39 <R0lf> Failed to execute child process "export". <- I get that message
10:03:13 <R0lf> jsled: No workaround, yet. Hehe.
10:04:43 <jsled> you might want to use a command string of the form [[[bash -c "export [...] gnucash"]]]
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10:06:05 <fell> the it seems not to be bash. Grml, what was the declaration in the other shells?
10:13:02 <R0lf> fell: setenv
10:13:09 <R0lf> fell: But I do use bash
10:13:27 <R0lf> I know because ubuntu had forced me into dash and that caused a myriad of problems.
10:14:16 <R0lf> jsled: No error, but no gnucash, either ;-)
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10:18:38 <R0lf> jsled: I guess I should have removed that "export" in this case. "Works" now, although I have to have another, non-working icon
10:19:23 <jsled> hmm?
10:28:00 <fell> R0lf:you make some developement on SKR04?
10:31:57 <R0lf> I would not call it development.
10:32:06 <R0lf> But I am starting to use it.
10:32:17 <R0lf> And in the process I iron out the bugs I find
10:32:29 <R0lf> Take a look at the BTS for example.
10:32:50 <fell> BTS?
10:32:57 <R0lf> bug-tracker
10:33:57 <R0lf> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432235
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10:34:17 <R0lf> fell: Are you interested in SKR04?
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10:35:35 <fell> R0lf: I tried to make a big one: http://www.mataram.de/downloads/gnucash/acctchrt_skr04-05.gnucash-xea.bz2
10:35:52 <R0lf> big one?
10:36:27 <fell> Yes, nearly all accounts except 9xxx
10:37:18 <fell> I anounced on the german mailing list and got no feedback, so I stoped developement
10:37:20 <R0lf> Oh, so an extension
10:37:27 <R0lf> german ml?
10:37:34 <R0lf> I only know about the English one
10:37:40 <R0lf> Is it carried on gmane?
10:37:42 <R0lf> brb
10:40:06 <fell> https://lists.gnucash.org/search/de
10:40:46 <jsled> Or https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-de
10:52:52 <fell> or http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.apps.gnucash.german
10:54:33 <R0lf> Yes
10:54:40 <R0lf> It seems I am already subscribed
10:54:53 <R0lf> But I read it only occasionally/never
10:56:55 <R0lf> Frank, that must be an ancient mail
10:57:08 <R0lf> Your last one (which is not related to SKR) is from February
10:58:18 <fell> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-de/2006-October/004479.html
10:58:27 <R0lf> fell: BTW, wha skr04-05 in the naming of your file?
10:58:36 <R0lf> Wow, more than half a year ago
10:58:48 <fell> state 2005
10:59:08 <fell> no MWSt 19%
11:01:48 <fell> but that is only an adjustment of ~20 accounts
11:02:10 <R0lf> fell: I will try to hang around the German list more often
11:03:11 <fell> compared to -devel there is not much traffic ;)
11:05:28 <R0lf> fell: Are you using gnucash for real-world accounting?
11:05:39 <R0lf> I want to do that. But have not yet found the time to do it.
11:05:55 <R0lf> Up until now, I just have a spreadsheet ;-)
11:06:22 <R0lf> I am not required to prepare a Bilanz
11:07:51 <fell> I came to gnucash a few years ago for private accounting because it understood HBCI
11:10:04 <fell> 1 1/1 years ago, we startet a 2 person import company and so I hade a few special cases, which were not in the old SKR
11:11:31 <R0lf> But you do use it productively?
11:11:48 <R0lf> I'd love to have somebody I can bug in case I run into trouble ;-)
11:12:05 <fell> for EÜR I think, it is OK. First look, which fields you have to fill and the be sure you have the corresponding accounts
11:12:46 <R0lf> BTW, any bounties out there for gnucash? I think this can be a powerful driver for FOSS. It amazes me that it is so seldomly used.
11:13:10 <R0lf> I think I'll write a bug about gnucash needing a bounty system ;-)
11:13:16 <fell> at this time we try to get USTVA / ELSTER running
11:13:47 <jsled> it's been brought up before.
11:14:05 <R0lf> jsled: result?
11:14:10 <jsled> You might think it can be powerful, but it's not turned out to be.
11:14:56 <jsled> It's just not compelling. I have a full-time job. I hack on gnucash in my spare time. $500 isn't really going to change that (for me) all that much.
11:16:12 <jsled> Or maybe the bounties that have been posted have been satisfied without any public followup.
11:16:34 <jsled> Of course, we're also participating the Google Summer of Code, which is basically a bounty system. :)
11:17:36 <jsled> Musing on bounty systems, though ... if a collection of users go together to have a more substantial bounty ... say $5000 for a 1-month project, it could be more reasonable.
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11:19:01 <jsled> But there's no security in that. Unless you're already a consultant looking to fill a bit of time between contracts, or you're in a period of transition between full-time opportunities, it's just not stable enough to be attractive.
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11:20:46 <R0lf> is gnucash lacking more in programmers or in accountants? I am sure you know what I am referring to.
11:21:03 <jsled> programmers.
11:21:25 <R0lf> OK, you are an exception, then.
11:21:26 <fell> and european accountants
11:21:48 <R0lf> I am sure that there are quite a few programmers who would be interested in even half your 500$
11:22:39 <jsled> Well, programming cycles, of course. We've actually got a good collection of people around the project right now. But – as has been true for years, now – we all have full time jobs and limited time to spend on gnucash.
11:22:49 <jsled> True. But the bounties have been much less than that.
11:23:01 <R0lf> I am still new. My perception is gnucash lacks programmers and steering (the people who can do it and have done so wonderfully are overloaded)
11:23:49 <R0lf> jsled: I guess part of the reason is that gnucash also appears to have little users.
11:24:38 <jsled> Yeah. I think a lot of people get by fine with a spreadsheet or just a rough mental idea of their finances.
11:25:13 <jsled> I don't know about steering ... I think we all have a pretty good idea of what the right things to do to make gnucash better would be.
11:25:38 <jsled> I also think there are a couple of specific ways that gnucash discourages casual users from "stepping up" to be able to contribute.
11:25:47 <jsled> The apparent complexity of the reports is a big one.
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11:26:41 <jsled> Just building it is too complex, for a couple of reasons, which makes other prospective developers turn away as soon as they can't easily build the *unmodified* sources.
11:28:22 <jsled> @seen warlord
11:28:22 <gncbot> jsled: warlord was last seen in #gnucash 3 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <warlord> okay, i gotta run. plane in under 6 hours.
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11:31:11 <fell> I think, one other problem is small I10n. If some people would make actual tranlation, it would more spread.
11:31:59 <jsled> hmm. We have 29 translations, though I'm sure many are incomplete or out of date.
11:32:01 <R0lf> See, there is the steering. Everybody has a clear image of what gnucash's direction should be. But that is everyone for themselves.
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11:35:17 <jsled> I think that opinion is roughly shared amongst the developers. But, yes, they might have different opinions and/or prioritization.
11:35:55 <jsled> But I'm not sure how "steering" would translate into more work done. I only see steering necessary when things are going in different, incompatible directions.
11:36:12 <jsled> Or, in lesser cases, where a difusion of efforts means nothing gets done in time.
11:36:28 <fell> In the german 1.8.9 you could read: last stable version was 1.2.5
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11:37:01 <jsled> (i.e., where it'd be better for people to finish 1 thing than not finish 3 things)
11:38:09 <R0lf> jsled: Steering is division of labor (with associated benefits) and coordination. I know this goes somewhat contrary to "scratch-my-itch" but some guidance is needed for larger projects, I believe. Some people have an itch for steering/guidance. Me, for example.
11:38:23 <R0lf> That is not bossing around but having an overview of where things are going.
11:38:38 <R0lf> And fuelling discusions about future direction, etc. for example.
11:38:49 <R0lf> I see nothing of that sort on the ML
11:38:55 <jsled> Frankly, discussion is often a waste of time.
11:39:12 <jsled> We could talk endlessly about what the future might hold.
11:39:12 <R0lf> Granted
11:39:24 <R0lf> I am talking more about getting people on the same page
11:39:28 <jsled> What it boils down to is getting code written.
11:39:39 <jsled> But, how does that help?
11:39:54 <R0lf> it helps tremendously.
11:40:15 <R0lf> with a) dev, b) potential devs and c) users/financial contributors
11:40:24 <R0lf> A project without direction is close to dead
11:40:31 <R0lf> That direction has to be communicated
11:40:37 <R0lf> among the community and externally
11:40:48 <R0lf> At least that is my firm belief
11:40:54 <jsled> I assert that people are roughly on the same page already.
11:41:00 <jsled> At least sufficiently to contribute usefully.
11:41:25 <R0lf> So what are the three biggest tasks?
11:42:10 <jsled> define "biggest". Most work? Best cost/benefit? Most valuable (to what end?)?
11:44:21 <jsled> I'd say, briefly, in no particluar order: gobject-ifcation; gda-backend; scheme-removal; report-overhaul; deprecated-gtk-removal; de-modularization; multi-currency-fixing
11:44:27 <jsled> (Oh, and it's more than 3. :)
11:46:04 <jsled> Again, I think the devs would generally agree with that list.
11:46:35 <jsled> We've talked about all those things over the last many moons, mostly here. Sometimes on the mailing list.
11:47:37 <jsled> But, as you say, there's not very much of it on the mailing list.
11:48:11 <jsled> There was a lot of messages about one attempt of the gobjectifcation, but that had a pretty low s/n ratio. :(
11:48:28 <R0lf> OK, maybe you are right
11:48:35 <R0lf> I would certainly welcome that.
11:49:06 <R0lf> Not having documented that road map of course gives first-timers that impression of "no clear vision"
11:49:22 <R0lf> But if that is not the case and coordination generally works, the better
11:49:23 <jsled> I can see that.
11:49:45 <R0lf> Let me test gnucash a bit more
11:57:07 <R0lf> fell: You SKR04 is more complete or could I be better off with the included one in certain scenarios?
12:00:59 <fell> R0lf: Der letzte Satz bitte mal auf deutsch
12:01:21 <R0lf> Tschuldigung, wieder mal vertippert
12:01:36 <R0lf> Ich wollte nur wissen, ob ich mit Deiner SKR04 auf jeden Fall besser fahre
12:01:57 <R0lf> oder ob ich in bestimmten Situationen mit der mitgelieferten Version besser fahren könnte
12:02:10 <R0lf> IOW, do I need to test or should I blindly use your SKR04?
12:03:32 <fell> Ich weiß, daß sind ein paar Fehler drin sind.
12:03:44 <fell> siehe HGB
12:04:08 <R0lf> Hast Du die reingemacht oder waren die in der Standard-Version auch schon drin?
12:04:33 <R0lf> Ich mache EÜR, für mich gelten die GOB also eigentlich nicht.
12:04:34 <fell> Ein paar Sachen sind mir auch nicht richtig klar
12:05:07 <fell> Bettinas, der offizielle endet bei Ebene 2 von 4
12:05:45 <fell> Die kniffligen Sachen kommen hauptsächlich auf Ebene 3/4
12:05:58 <R0lf> Ist für mich alles Bahnhof
12:06:22 <R0lf> Ich will mit gnucash den Schritt zu professionellerer Buchhaltung wagen
12:06:52 <R0lf> Also nochmal, Bettinas und Deine Version testen oder bin ich mit Deiner auf jeden Fall besser bedient?
12:07:02 <R0lf> Fehler gibt es sicher überall, darum geht es nicht
12:08:37 <fell> Meiner ist eine Erweiterung von Bettinas. Habe aufgrund 2er Listen im Internet alle Konten außer 9xxx reingehackt.
12:09:15 <R0lf> OK, dann werde ich Deine Version nutzen.
12:09:30 <R0lf> Wieso ist die nicht "offiziell"?
12:09:47 <R0lf> Ich hänge die mal an meinen Bug report zu SKR04
12:10:03 <fell> An ein paar Stellen war mir die Gliederung unklar, die 16->19% sind noch nicht drin
12:10:36 <fell> Ich habe die zum Testen freigegeben und kein feedback bekommen, deshalb ist der nicht drin
12:10:44 <R0lf> Wenn Du magst können wir zusammen die bekannten Fehler rausbügeln
12:10:59 <R0lf> Dann request for inclusion
12:11:15 <R0lf> Ich lese gerade den Thread re Kompilierung SVN version
12:12:05 <R0lf> Interessiert mich auch.
12:12:05 <R0lf> Welches Linux nutzt Du?
12:12:05 <R0lf> Ich bin auf ubuntu edgy
12:13:02 <R0lf> If I follow http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building and take to set --prefix=$HOME/mybin or some such, can I be certain not to pollute my system in important places?
12:13:38 <fell> 1x 1,4 GHz Suse10.2, 1x 1,8 GHz Suse10.0, 1x 200MHz Kubuntu Dapper
12:13:42 <jsled> Yes. Or an /opt/gnc-svn/ that you've created as root, but chown'ed to your user account.
12:14:23 <jsled> When you do the `make install` as your user, you can be sure you won't be writing into places you're not supposed to.
12:14:48 <R0lf> OK, reassuring.
12:15:31 <R0lf> And I guess since a lot is happening with gnucash it makes sense to have a not-for-daily-use-but-testing-purposes gnucash lying around
12:15:54 <R0lf> fell: You use gnucash on dapper as well?
12:16:02 <R0lf> I never touched Suse
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12:17:10 * R0lf thinks about compiling gnucash regularly and offering that in the LAN via NFS for testing
12:17:27 <R0lf> I have a file/print/compile-server I would use for that
12:17:49 <andi5> R0lf: might think about providing global ubuntu repositories ;-)
12:18:00 <R0lf> andi5: Indeed
12:18:13 <R0lf> Or work with ubuntu which might make more sense
12:18:14 <andi5> 2.0.5 is not even is feisty
12:18:28 <R0lf> I got my first gnucash from geole.info since it had HBCI
12:19:28 <R0lf> Although I have so far not gotten HBCI to work
12:19:38 * R0lf suspects some problem at the bank, though
12:20:13 <andi5> it is rather easy once you have installed aqbanking-dev (or so) and build from source (--enable-hbci)
12:20:25 <andi5> oh, i see
12:20:34 <andi5> do not mind
12:25:56 <fell> R0lf: my Problem with dapper: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-04-20.html#T23:30:43
12:27:00 <R0lf> fell: SWIG? have you tried backports?
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12:27:36 <andi5> have you tried to install the edgy version?
12:28:21 <andi5> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/swig1.3 does not list a backport
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12:28:27 <R0lf> jsled: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371581 would be a perfect candidate for a bounty. I am sure it would gather some interest.
12:29:09 <jsled> yup.
12:38:12 <fell> R0lf: also after including backport I only got 1.3.27
12:40:49 <R0lf> fell: yes, there seems to be no dapper-backport
12:43:21 <R0lf> fell: You could try "sudo apt-get build-dep swig; apt-get --compile source swig" You will need a src entry in sources.list for this and some software installed (IIRC build-essential should suffice)
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12:43:59 <R0lf> That way you compile the needed software yourself.
12:44:06 <R0lf> Quite easy on debian/ubuntu
12:44:55 <fell> but at 200 MHz? Next week we see the result ...
12:45:55 <fell> That machine is more a terminal to work from bed ;)
12:46:22 <R0lf> So what? My build machine is about that power
12:46:29 <R0lf> Via C3 600 MHz
12:46:48 <R0lf> It takes time. But better than not having it. And I am patient
12:47:00 <R0lf> The machine runs 24/7 anyways
12:47:13 <R0lf> I'd compile it for you, but my machines are all edgy
12:47:22 * andi5 sees a monster wave
12:47:42 <R0lf> andi5: Are you in Hawaii?
12:47:44 <R0lf> ;-)
12:48:04 <andi5> R0lf: i suppose there is a good reason to run it 24/7, right? :)
12:48:51 <R0lf> It is my LAN server, web server, mail server, used to be my router and Internet gateway.
12:48:59 <R0lf> I want to be my answering and fax machine.
12:49:16 <R0lf> And I chose the Via C§ exactly because it uses little power.
12:49:21 <andi5> you want to be your fax machine?
12:49:35 <R0lf> I want *it*
12:49:40 <R0lf> My typing sucks
12:49:41 <andi5> *g*
12:49:59 <R0lf> I think there is a good reason I have it 24/7
12:50:07 <andi5> 'k
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12:59:24 <R0lf> fell: Another option is to boot a dapper live CD, compile there on a faster machine and copy what you need. I did that in the past.
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13:07:02 <fell> R0lf: after some routing problem it is downloading, but may be after that the disk is full agan
13:08:17 <fell> R0lf: could you write this apt sequence in the wiki?
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13:09:01 <fell> to make it beginner friendly
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13:11:06 <R0lf> Sure
13:13:09 <R0lf> fell: You did choose at least edgy sources, did you?
13:18:26 <fell> No, the disk is full, as I feared
13:19:16 <R0lf> fell: Compile it from within a dapper live CD
13:19:42 <R0lf> and use edgy sources (or even feisty). dapper sources are of no use for dapper backports
13:23:18 <fell> they will be included by: ...
13:24:39 <andi5> stupid ssl ddl crap on windows... i have three different versions in my PATH, someone with more?
13:24:57 <andi5> s,ddl,dll,
13:25:42 <R0lf> fell: The Building page in the wiki is protected.
13:26:38 <jsled> R0lf: Re: <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371581#c4>, what do you mean "made into a bounty"?
13:26:44 <andi5> does not seem so ... i can still protect it
13:27:29 <andi5> gnome bugzilla has no integrated bounty tracking feature, no
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13:30:25 <R0lf> jsled: Pledge a bounty to fix the bug. set it up so that others can participate and pour even more funds into it
13:30:51 <R0lf> andi5: yes, I know there is no integrated solution yet anywhere. Which strikes me as odd.
13:31:38 <R0lf> I am talking to the launchpad people about it since I believe they stand the best chance of implementing an integrating solution
13:32:20 <andi5> hm? i do not see a reason to migrate to launchpad..
13:35:17 <R0lf> That is not what I am suggesting
13:35:42 <R0lf> My vision about a bounty system extends well beyond gnucash
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13:38:48 <R0lf> I needed to confirm my mail address and can work on the "building" page in the wiki now.
14:00:05 <R0lf> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building includes backporting info now
14:04:35 <fell> looks fine
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14:05:36 <jsled> You might want to move that to the Ubuntu page.
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14:07:03 <jsled> Though I guess it still is about building.
14:08:07 <R0lf> there is an ubuntu page?
14:08:20 <R0lf> fell suggested putting it there ;-)
14:08:28 <jsled> Yup; see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash
14:12:36 <fell> jsled: I thought, because the to fresh swig.
14:15:06 <fell> It is about resolving dependencies for building from source
14:26:25 <jsled> Yeah ... it's one of those cross-categorization things. It's relevant to both Building and Ubuntu.
14:27:23 * jsled shrugs
14:32:46 <R0lf> Looking at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=364946 I think that bug buddy sucks ass
14:33:19 <andi5> why that?
14:33:21 <jsled> How's that?
14:33:28 <R0lf> All these dupes
14:33:37 <R0lf> Suck up bug triaging time for little value
14:33:54 <R0lf> Just dumping bug reports all over the place helps no one.
14:34:31 <R0lf> I'd auto-reject all bug buddy reports ;-)
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14:34:50 <andi5> bugbuddy creators are not god (creator of the universe and, well ... ) ... i think if duplicate recognition was trivial it would have been in use already :)
14:34:56 <jsled> Certainly people are trying to figure out the better auto-dup detection.
14:35:34 <tedcx> can a new account be set up with an Opening Balance without using the Druid?
14:35:40 <jsled> Sure.
14:35:49 <hampton> You can now provide a stack trace to the maintainers of BB and they can set an auto response for that particular stack trace.
14:36:02 <jsled> Just create an appropriately-dated transaction against Equity:Opening Balances.
14:36:08 <jsled> That's all the druid is doing.
14:36:29 <tedcx> Yes but an imbalance shows up
14:36:51 <jsled> Then you're not entering the transaction correctly.
14:37:18 <tedcx> don't doubt that
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14:41:45 <andi5> R0lf: does apport report bugs with symbols enabled now? (by installing dbgsym packages locally or checking a server)
14:42:15 <R0lf> I do not know. I don't use apport.
14:42:21 <R0lf> I hand-report bugs.
14:42:37 <andi5> ok
14:52:27 <andi5> R0lf: could you please revisit #77619? this is a bug in gtk+, fixed in 2.10.10 :)
14:53:34 <R0lf> andi5: I don't think so
14:53:45 <R0lf> I think you left out some number
14:53:50 <R0lf> Can you provide an URL
14:53:57 <andi5> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/+bug/77619
14:54:20 <R0lf> oh, you were talking launchpad not gnome
14:54:45 <andi5> yeah, i speak several languages fluently and interchangingly ;-) ;-)
14:54:49 <R0lf> I was in fact just looking at that one
14:54:59 * R0lf too
14:55:04 <R0lf> or /me too
14:57:09 <R0lf> andi5: Done
14:58:07 <andi5> i am sorry, i mean GTK+ (not gnucash) :)
14:58:53 <R0lf> ???
14:59:18 <R0lf> The BTS is open, you can also do it yourself. But I think the bug is correctly marked now
14:59:20 <andi5> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=364946 ... look at the top right box ... what is the product?
14:59:32 <andi5> R0lf: yes, i am sorry, will do
14:59:53 <R0lf> you mean this is a gtk+ bug, not a gnucash bug?
15:00:03 <andi5> hm.... y..es
15:01:25 <R0lf> OK, now I understand
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15:12:32 <andi5> R0lf: so do you have experience with building packages and uploading to somewhere, so that they can be added/updated to/in the repositories?
15:12:52 <R0lf> not much
15:13:00 <R0lf> But it should not be so difficult
15:13:10 <andi5> that is what i think too, but i have not tried yet :)
15:13:51 <andi5> i think some bug has build instructions for 2.0.5, but the author says that they fail.... it would be good if some ubuntu guy kept an idea on updates :)
15:14:38 <andi5> s,idea,eye,
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15:21:00 <R0lf> andi5: how can this be a bug in gtk+ and gtk+ only when it is fixed in 2.10 of gnucash?
15:21:24 <andi5> what is version 2.10 of gnucash? :)
15:21:32 <jsled> It's fixed in version 2.10 of GTK.
15:22:52 <R0lf> yeah, I just figured that. duh
15:23:04 <R0lf> Updated launchpad accordingly.
15:23:09 <andi5> gtk is the major underlying library of gnucash.... there was a bug in its tree models.... gnucash makes (sort of) heavy usage of those and kept crashing in certain circumstances
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15:24:41 <andi5> R0lf: thanks
15:25:21 <R0lf> andi5: I'd like to check for dupes in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/ What would I be looking for?
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15:33:01 <andi5> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433389 makes me wonder how we handle those bugs? should they be filed in gnucash / translations?
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15:35:05 <andi5> R0lf: we need you at our second bug day :) ... http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Release_Schedule#Schedule .... desperately
15:36:26 <R0lf> andi5: Nice to know. I'll see if I can find some time.
15:36:26 <jsled> I'm not sure what you mean, either, tedcx.
15:37:40 <R0lf> andi5: That is where I meant to file it. Stupid gnome bugzilla misled me to believe it was filed there.
15:38:15 <R0lf> andi5: I was looking for search terms, strings I could look for. "Crash" being an obvious one.
15:38:33 <R0lf> andi5: I did not understand your remark about the gtk+ crew
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15:42:30 <andi5> R0lf: i mean that i do not know other applications (say rhythmbox or evolution) that crash similarly (they crash, but those are very likely different bugs ;-)) .... i suppose if there was a launchpad bug for gtk+, it would have gone upstream to gnome and marked as duplicate there ... but i did not read about that :)
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15:45:35 <Rolf> Sorry, I might have a few messages since my last post.
15:45:35 <Rolf> My internet connection is less than stable ATM
15:45:35 <andi5> Rolf: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/ ... no, you did not
15:45:43 <Rolf> OK
15:45:53 <Rolf> Thanks, but I guess the logs are not realtime, are they?
15:45:59 <andi5> they are
15:46:38 <andi5> the google crawlers do not come by realtime, though
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16:08:25 <Rolf> Wow
16:08:32 <Rolf> What are gnome-love bugs?
16:09:04 <jsled> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove
16:11:02 <Rolf> I don't get it. Should all gnome bugs be gnome-love bugs?
16:11:47 <jsled> They're bugs that are suitable for people who aren't super familiar with the project/sources.
16:13:05 <Rolf> I see
16:13:28 <jsled> For instance, solving the "register tab switching results in a bad focus/keyboard-tab behavior" probably isn't suitable for anyone who's not been hacking at gnucash for a while; making the initial window 800x600 is pretty straightforward for "anyone", though.
16:14:28 <andi5> jsled: what is the default size now?
16:15:21 <jsled> 800x600, as per r15951.
16:16:04 <andi5> hm... this is not optimal, even for 800x600 desktops, i guess.... why not 790x580 or so? :)
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16:16:32 <andi5> (thinking in terms of small desktops)
16:17:13 <Rolf> thinking of my VGA Zaurus PDA for example ;-)
16:17:30 <jsled> I guess that makes a bit more sense. Really you'd want to say "800x600 minus your decorations, oh mighty window manager of placement and realization."
16:17:34 <Rolf> Would be nice to have it on there
16:17:37 <jsled> But I'm not sure how to do that.
16:18:14 <andi5> jsled: gtk has functions to determine the virtual resolution.... we could use that to maximize if <= 800x600
16:18:33 <jsled> The register has a minimum width of around 800px, at least here; I started at 640x480, but it only works for the account tree...
16:18:38 <jsled> andi5: Oh, that's an excellent point.
16:19:34 <jsled> Well, the code is in src/gnome-utils/gnc-main-window.c ... ;)
16:19:39 <andi5> hehe ;-) .... add me as subscriber and i will see at it ....once i have this damn f::q thingy running ... (*grmlgrml*)
16:19:46 <andi5> s,see,look,
16:20:53 <jsled> subscriber to ...?
16:21:28 <andi5> did not you mention some bug? ... hmmm
16:22:57 <jsled> Bug#347257, but I fixed it with r15951.
16:22:58 <andi5> ok then .... i will try to keep it in mind though
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16:27:20 * Rolf points fell to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433428
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16:28:02 <Rolf> Is it possible to reserve a nick on this server?
16:30:12 <andi5> i do not think so
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16:33:25 <fell> oops, was at the other engine. SWIG installed
16:36:44 <Rolf> nice
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16:37:34 * Rolf hates all this JavaScript junk
16:37:41 <Rolf> Now even in bugzilla
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22:03:41 <fell> this bugzilla is not very multi user friendly, if 2 comment the same bug
22:05:55 <jsled> Sure it is.
22:06:12 <jsled> Besides, at least with mozilla since forever, just back, reload, and submit.
22:06:23 <jsled> Your textarea changes will still be tehre after the reload.
22:06:50 <fell> copy and paste also worked
22:07:10 <jsled> ayup.
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