2007-04-15 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:22:36 <k-man> hello
01:22:57 <k-man> is there some way i could do invoicing of weekly rent in gnucash?
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05:44:22 <Chintan> I was selected for QIF importer rewrite in Goolge Summer of Code. Thought it might be a good idea to get familiar with the Gnucash community. My mentor is Derek Atkins
05:50:09 <Chintan> The site actually mentions a previous attempt to write the importer. Any idea where I could find it?
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06:15:08 <conrad> Chintan: First lesson - hang around a bit longer than 10 minutes if you want to actually talk to someone.
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06:18:30 <andi5> conrad: you mean like 20 minutes? ;-)
06:19:29 <conrad> Well, it was just over 10 minutes from when they introduced themself.
06:20:00 <conrad> No-ones going to talk to you before you introduce yourself in this channel, there's too many people like me who just lurk.
06:20:18 <andi5> conrad: who ARE you? ;-)
06:20:38 <conrad> andi5: Wouldn't you like to know..... :-)
06:20:49 <andi5> probably right :)
06:21:40 <conrad> There once was a developers intro page that we started to put together, but I don't know that I ever actually got around to sending a blurb in.
06:22:06 <conrad> That could probably go on the wiki now (if its not there already)
06:23:50 <andi5> well, someone must have deleted all evidence of your contributions from the wiki :-D
06:24:54 <andi5> but you are in AUTHORS..... (three words they gave you)
06:25:19 <conrad> Yeah, that did annoy me slightly.
06:25:49 <conrad> I got into AUTHORS on my first contribution, but I was never game to submit a patch to update it with later patches.
06:26:19 <andi5> conrad: send in a patch.... really
06:26:42 * andi5 first has to check your identity ;-)
06:26:58 <conrad> I suspect most of the code I wrote has long been rewritten and disappeared by now. Although a couple of the support scripts still have my handiwork in them.
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06:28:04 <conrad> Unfortunately, this was back in the days when Dave Peticolas was cvs guardian, so all my patches were applied by him (and credit wasn't usually given in the cvs comment either)
06:29:02 <andi5> that is bad, but i am just a newb here :-)
06:29:37 <conrad> I believe I do actually predate warlord (but only barely). And I was never as involved. I've spent most of my gnucash life as a lurker here.
06:30:07 <conrad> Search the email archives for Conrad Canterford. I left my mark there.
06:33:38 <andi5> i see... but you know, i will not read hundreds of mails just to get an idea what to write about you :-) .... someone else really should do that though (s,read,know,)... well, we need more lurkers like you ;)
06:34:23 <conrad> andi5: I wasn't expecting you to read them all!
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06:35:35 <conrad> I'm actually not that fussed about the AUTHORS thing. I really wasn't a major developer by anyones imagination (even my own), and that was so long ago its not as though it matters.
06:36:06 <andi5> conrad: i just hope you will stay with us once the register got replaced? :-)
06:36:32 <conrad> Depends on what it gets replaced with..... :-)
06:37:47 <andi5> some web interface thingie .... btw, i think the first step away from this *nix crap has been made, more will follow ;-)
06:39:58 <conrad> I don't mind the unix stuff. I'm quite happy to use it, but a more generalised interface would be more useful.
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06:41:32 <conrad> Actually, my biggest grumbles at the moment are: (related) a lack of auditing, and a lack of immutability (in other words, once something is entered, its there for life).
06:42:17 <andi5> wrt immutability: you mean in the business functions?
06:42:21 <conrad> And since I'm not prepared to dust of my fingers and do anything about either, I'm not complaining that nothing much is happening for either.
06:43:17 <conrad> immutability is a fundamental component of any serious accounting system - once a transaction is entered it should not be altered. Rather, it is "corrected" by another transaction that undoes the wrong bits.
06:43:52 <andi5> oh, now i see
06:45:07 <conrad> With those two features I might stand some hope of convincing my accountant that it is real accounting software.
06:45:44 <andi5> i suppose i cannot help you... i tend to only scratch the surface (gui-wise)
06:46:28 <conrad> Heh. No help required. If it really bothered me greatly, I'd do something about it.
06:47:12 <conrad> Although I think I'd probably need to relearn the internals now. It has changed a little from when I last played with the code.
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11:29:12 <rlaager> conrad: How immutable are you looking for? After all, it's rather trivial to modify the data file by hand.
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12:02:44 <jsled> Hmm. [[[
12:02:44 <jsled> * 12:02:11 CRIT <gnc.engine> xaccAccountGetFullName: assertion `GNC_IS_ACCOUNT(account)' failed
12:02:45 <jsled> ]]]
12:03:04 <jsled> A few of those when opening my datafile with trunk ...
12:03:46 <jsled> Huh. They appear anytime the register is repainted.
12:04:02 <andi5> the _register_?
12:05:25 <jsled> yup.
12:07:34 <andi5> hm... may be irrelevant... seems like that function simply returned "" before, but logs a crit now
12:08:08 * andi5 rebuilds a lot of stuff on windows right now (maybe he should not _really_ test reset.sh, but hey)
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12:13:15 <jsled> I wonder when a good time to enable the 2.2-specific datafile stuff is.
12:16:36 <andi5> i am sorry, i think i am not really up to the issue.... i see r15787, but that one is about the state files
12:18:58 <jsled> Oh, I'm referring to the not-2.0-compatible saving of SXes.
12:22:32 <andi5> ah... so data-file-compatability currently controls which format to use... but you ask when to change the default (and make the gconf key useless again), right?
12:22:44 <jsled> right.
12:23:05 <jsled> grr.
12:23:19 *** jsled changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. Gnucash 2.1.0 is released! FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a *publically-logged* channel, <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>"
12:23:33 <andi5> hehe
12:23:45 <jsled> Moreover, all the FreqSpec code can be garbage collected at that point.
12:23:54 <andi5> well, why not now?
12:24:12 <andi5> better earlier than later....
12:24:33 <andi5> the same holds for _the great reindentation_, if we still want that
12:24:53 <jsled> There is a class of users who wants to use 2.1 with their real datafile, and be able to drop back to 2.0 if need be.
12:25:38 <jsled> Maybe I'll wait for a bit more stabalization first, so it's not unresonable to suggest that they just start using 2.1.0 as their primary version.
12:27:07 <andi5> an easy question: will there be a lot of new testing needed _after_ that change?
12:27:39 <jsled> not really, I hope.
12:29:05 <andi5> ok... maybe you are right..... but i still think that 2.1.0 should be as close to 2.2.0 as possible and users should make backups often / know how to convert their data files back
12:29:55 <jsled> true.
12:32:33 <andi5> jsled: do you have strong opinions about the time slice on the bug days? iirc last time you mentioned something like 1500 UTC?
12:33:06 <jsled> So, like an hour and a half ago?
12:33:45 <jsled> I don't think I have a strong opinion. "Saturday" is good.
12:34:10 <jsled> I probably wouldn't be available much before then.
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12:34:55 <andi5> we just should make that clear to avoid hundreds of testers leave before the first dev wakes up ;-)
12:35:03 <jsled> True.
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13:08:59 <hampton> jsled: I'm not seeing that error message with my data file.
13:09:22 <hampton> I did try to harden the API a little which would explain why you're seeing an error now when it wasn't there before.
13:11:32 * hampton is wondering now that 2.1.0 is out if he should finish converting the Account and QofInstance APIs
13:14:26 <andi5> Q: do not you think that gnucash-2.1.0-setup.exe (once it is built) should be on http://www.gnucash.org/pub/gnucash/?
13:19:17 <hampton> I'm not sure. We don't host a package of gnucash there for any other os.
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14:17:19 <andi5> hampton, Wilddev: maybe forthcoming announcement should say where these binaries will land, given that originally we wanted to sell gnucash 2.2 mainly as win32-support-adding release series
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14:18:27 <Wilddev> andi5: sure, if its put into the wiki page for announcements it'll be in the announcement :)
14:18:35 <andi5> (currently it is said that gnucash "is available as source code."
14:20:40 <andi5> Wilddev: well, the wiki indeed said _some_ things about the download places (ok, not about the setup.exe), that are not present in the actual announcement :)
14:22:27 <Wilddev> andi5: yes, christian's email this morning just started to hash out how we want to proceed with announcements, can you reply to that email list with addtions and changes you want?
14:22:57 <Wilddev> andi5: my proposal is that the announcement should be edited/compiled on the wiki so all I need to do for the release is copy what is there
14:23:36 <andi5> you said that the announcement was nearly unusable... what do you mean by that?
14:23:54 <andi5> ok, there are some FIXMEs, but why unusable?
14:24:40 <andi5> (maybe i should first check the archives for the correct terms... i have a strange dual-boot problems with mails... hope to fix that someday)
14:25:35 <Wilddev> well I meant that it wasn't usable as it was then, it appeared to be similar to the wiki announcements done before and that was why I used parts of it for the actual release announcement
14:26:01 <Wilddev> if I can get others to edit it, I will also so it will look like what we want before I make a release
14:26:14 <Wilddev> no, that's fine
14:27:48 <andi5> well, i remember that i have once tried to do some announce text works (for some 1.9.x release or so), because there was already some delay.... it was a pity to see that these bits and pieces were not used at all.... but that may have changed meanwhile
14:28:38 <andi5> maybe we are on the right track now... i really hope so :)
14:29:48 <Wilddev> well I'm hoping if people will actually use the wiki to make the announcement we'll get something everyone likes and agrees upon
14:30:09 <Wilddev> It'll be much easier for me to do it that way, I hate writing them
14:30:11 <Wilddev> lol
14:30:30 <andi5> so you say you will basically pull the result an use it? ... i suppose that would be ideal :-) ... but that is just me
14:31:31 <Wilddev> yup, I'll use it if it doesn't have things like FIXME and 'do we want to put this in the announcement' in the text
14:32:13 <andi5> yep...
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16:53:41 <malikeye> just a note about typos in the docs...
16:53:51 <jsled> SQL-Ledger Relicensed, Community Gagged : http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/15/1759254&from=rss
16:53:53 <malikeye> The Account Register
16:54:25 <malikeye> references Equity: Staring Balances
16:54:35 <malikeye> but the screenshot shows Equity : Opening Balances
16:54:45 <jsled> malikeye: which doc? Tutorial & Concepts Guide?
16:55:21 <jsled> This is under "Simple Transaction"?
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16:57:14 <malikeye> under "Transactions", "The Account Register"
16:57:29 <jsled> malikeye: I see.
16:57:32 <malikeye> yeah, the tutorial and concepts guide
16:57:43 <malikeye> it's obvious what it is, but
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16:58:22 <jsled> malikeye: committed.
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16:59:28 <malikeye> nice, made a contribution :)
16:59:31 <malikeye> can I get credit for that ?
16:59:32 <malikeye> haha
17:00:30 <jsled> When you send in a patch, you can suggest whatever commit message you like. :)
17:01:27 <malikeye> nice job on the gtk2, btw
17:02:14 <jsled> :)
17:04:17 <malikeye> are you interested in a compilation of typos ?
17:04:24 <malikeye> I can keep track as I go though :)
17:04:46 <jsled> definitely ... though it would be better if you could correct the sources and send in a patch.
17:04:57 <jsled> The sources are just docbook/xml ...
17:04:57 <malikeye> hmm
17:05:40 <jsled> But, noting the section/text and sending it to gnucash-devel, or to bugzilla, or even here, is fine too.
17:06:47 <malikeye> stuff in /uysr/share/gnome/help ?
17:07:25 <jsled> huh. Yes, acutally.
17:07:34 <malikeye> err, usr I mean
17:08:22 <jsled> I was going to suggest pulling a copy from <http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash-docs/trunk/> ... you might still want to, anyways, if only to be able to `svn diff` something we can directly apply.
17:09:02 <malikeye> k, that makes sense
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17:16:02 <laszlok> does anyone know where i can find the SVG tango icon for gnucash?
17:20:53 <jsled> laszlok: the Tango project, perhaps?
17:21:27 <laszlok> jsled: the guy who made it isn't there right now
17:21:38 <jsled> Also, http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Fridays says "sent to developers".
17:21:39 <laszlok> and it says on the website that its been sent upstream
17:21:44 <laszlok> right
17:22:01 <jsled> IIRC ... hmm. It'd be in the -devel mailing list archives. /me looks.
17:22:36 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2006-November/019137.html
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17:23:19 * malikeye notes subversion takes too long to compile
17:24:09 <jsled> Hmm. It appears the submission was not acted on. I'll move it into the source tree.
17:24:21 <jsled> malikeye: subversion itself, or gnucash-from-source?
17:24:49 <malikeye> well, subversion is just finishing, after I mentioned it, but gnucash takes a bit :)
17:25:00 <jsled> why not install svn from your distro's package?
17:25:11 <malikeye> it is my distros package
17:25:18 <jsled> gentoo?
17:25:32 <malikeye> yep
17:26:11 <laszlok> jsled: perfect, thanks
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17:36:49 <malikeye> you running that repo off a cable connection ? :)
17:37:17 <jsled> no, I think he has at least a T1, with a DSL/cable line as a backup.
17:37:39 <jsled> I think I'm going to make that tango icon the app icon, as well. Objection?
17:37:55 <malikeye> I object!
17:37:59 <jsled> Wow.
17:38:02 <malikeye> what are we talkin about ?
17:38:08 <jsled> heh
17:49:03 <rlaager> heh, these days one might have a cable line with a T1 as a backup ;)
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19:11:07 <malikeye> is it me, or is bugzilla all over the place ?
19:12:04 <malikeye> seeing critical bugs from 2004
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20:07:11 <jsled> malikeye: what do you mean?
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21:39:43 <James> hi
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21:48:47 <James> I'm trying to open a store and plan to use linux for the desktop OS. is the gnucash application difficult to use?
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23:12:21 <johnf> when doing a transaction report is it possible to get a subtotal for the credit and debit columns?
23:13:01 <johnf> even better is it possible to do a transaction report and filter by taxable items?
23:15:13 <johnf> or order by the payment date. All of these would solve my GST problems :)
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23:55:22 <turbond> Hi all
23:56:15 <turbond> Question: Why does GNU take all my invoice transactions and turn them to Zero in the Accounts Receiable and Income:Sales ??? It is very annoying
23:56:43 <turbond> Hello Is anyone still awake?
23:57:45 <hampton> Yes, but I don't have any idea how to answer your question.