2007-03-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:29:56 <slyrus> is there a directory of CPAs that use gnucash? the FAQ asks the question, but is silent (or negative, I suppose) on the answer.
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01:32:36 <lambretta> can someone help with budgets please?
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02:16:08 <lambretta> I guess no one is awake yet....
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02:51:23 <Pzl> hi
02:51:36 <Pzl> Why is there a difference between CASH and RETAINED EARNINGS on the Balance sheet?
02:52:35 <Pzl> and what is the difference
02:54:32 <Pzl> Why would Retained earnings not be synonymous with cash-- cash the company has on hand for expenses, which is apparently the same function of the ... .retained earnings?
02:54:48 <Pzl> I see that Retained Earnings is set-aside for future R&D
02:54:49 <Pzl> but...
02:55:09 <Pzl> is Retained earnings part of cash? are they separate accounts? I just don't get it
02:57:04 <Pzl> or is Retained Earnings simply all the cash the company CAN HAVE from accounts receivable/etc, but yet may or may not have been collected yet.. Ie, retained earnings is "all the cash we would have if our customers paid us today", yet Cash is actual cash ?
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03:24:33 <oscar_> Hello?
03:30:18 <oscar_> while compiling gnucash 2.0.5, in ubuntu dapper 6.06, i get this:
03:30:20 <oscar_> checking for SLIB support... configure: error:
03:30:21 <oscar_> Cannot find SLIB. Are you sure you have it installed?
03:30:21 <oscar_> See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347922
03:30:48 <oscar_> i don't understand how to resolve the isssue....
03:32:13 <oscar_> i don't know where SLIB is installed or how to symlink to it.. so that guile and the configuration for gnucash can see it...
03:42:18 <Pzl> hi Oscar
03:42:27 <Pzl> Are you good with accounting.. could I ask you an accounting question?
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03:45:49 <oscar_> not so good with accounting... basic knowledge only
03:46:18 <Pzl> I am reading a book on accounting.. a good one, called "Financial Statements"
03:46:42 <Pzl> They have an example company. The guy borrows 1 million dollars from the bank at a 10% per annum interest rate
03:47:00 <Pzl> spread out over 10 years, this totals 550,000 in interest paid in total
03:47:40 <Pzl> So it's 1.55 million paid total
03:48:15 <Pzl> And yet, on the balance sheet, under Liabilities, they were "Current portion of debt" = $100,000
03:48:20 <Pzl> for that years principal payment
03:48:36 <Pzl> and under long-term debt, they write "900,000" .. for the remaining debt
03:48:49 <Pzl> this of course is needed so that the liabilities balance with the assets
03:48:55 <Pzl> it totals 1 million in liabilities
03:49:14 <Pzl> which balances with the new 1 million in cash.. in assets on the balance sheet
03:49:26 <Pzl> and yet this takes no account of the interest being paid.
03:49:44 <Pzl> how can this be, and why?
03:49:52 <oscar_> lol
03:50:11 <oscar_> interesting question... :)
03:50:29 <oscar_> there has to be some other type of account
03:50:44 <oscar_> like depreciation or interest costs
03:50:46 <oscar_> ???
03:51:10 <aj> Pzl: interest probably comes under an expense account
03:51:39 <Pzl> but why wouldn't long-term debt be listed, actually, as 1.45 million on the balance sheet?
03:52:02 <Pzl> that's the REAL liability... it makes no sense
03:53:00 <oscar_> but the long term debt has not been accrued yet... the guy could pay more on the principal the following year
03:53:34 <Pzl> the interest is less each year, because the remainder of the principal goes down
03:54:21 <Pzl> I see what you are saying about BUT, but I still just don't see why the actual value is not reflected on the balance sheet for long term debt ;/
03:55:21 <oscar_> Accounting = records the past, Finance = predicts the future :)
03:55:38 <Pzl> but it's just wrong
03:55:53 <aj> Pzl: at the ned of the 10 years, you end up with no liability left over, and $550,000 in expenses over the period
03:55:57 <Pzl> liabilities are liabilities. how can you just put in a 1 million dollar liability, when it's a 1.55 millon dollar liability
03:56:20 <Pzl> aj: Yet when you look at somebodies balance sheet, you cannot see the true liabilities?
03:56:36 <Pzl> the balance sheet shows you nothing about how much they paid for that money
03:56:37 <aj> Pzl: predicted expenses go in the budget, not a liabilities account
03:57:16 <Pzl> aaaargh
03:57:37 <Pzl> they could be paying 30% interest and the balance sheet shows nothing about that debt
03:58:44 <oscar_> good luck and good night
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05:21:13 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
05:21:51 <warlord> japhy: no, just be explicit in your application. We may ask you more questions
05:47:19 <warlord> @tell faga yes, I am Derek. I'm in Europe so I was asleep when you wrote. AFK == Away From Keyboard (meaning, not here). Feel free to apply and be explicit about how you'd want to do it and why you should get the position. I dont know what criteria google uses.
05:47:20 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
05:47:46 <warlord> @tell lasindi[lappy] No, python wouldn't work. It would need to be written in C.
05:47:46 <gncbot> warlord: Error: "lappy" is not a valid command.
05:48:50 <warlord> @tell Pzl IIRC, in the report Cash is how much, well, cash you have.. It's an Asset. Retained Earnings is a measure of total previous profit/loss (Income - Expense) and is Equity.
05:48:50 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
05:50:21 <warlord> @tell oscar_ Do you have the ubuntu slib package(s) installed? Have you read the GnuCash wiki? You MAY need to add a symlink and then run guile and tell it to rebuild the slibcat, but ubuntu should've done that for you.
05:50:21 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
05:50:38 * warlord is off for the day. I'll be back tonight.
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07:45:21 <Adri2000> andi5: pong
07:45:51 <andi5> Adri2000: oh hi :) .... (you can run, but you cannot hide)
07:46:11 <Adri2000> hi
07:46:47 <andi5> Adri2000: i wanted to ask you about this ubuntu bug #92477, but it seems like it is being actively worked on :) ... but, do you have any idea whether it will be possible to ship feisty with 2.0.5?
07:48:45 <Adri2000> andi5: it would need an UpstreamVersionFreeze exception, and that's possible only if it fixes some important bugs and doesn't introduce too many new features with a risk of new bugs
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07:55:42 <andi5> Adri2000: i think both requirements are fulfilled
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12:26:26 <warlord> oh, thanks hampton
12:26:38 <hampton> np
12:26:47 <andi5> where is supy?
12:36:54 <warlord> supy?
12:37:35 <cortana> irc bot?
12:37:46 <andi5> was not gncbot just a clone of supybot I?
12:37:58 <warlord> I have no idea what jdled installed. I /think/ it's supybot.
12:38:22 <andi5> sleepybot right now
12:38:29 <warlord> @ping
12:38:29 <gncbot> pong
12:38:36 <warlord> What do you mean?
12:38:59 <andi5> oops... damn, he is the first
12:39:49 * andi5 is blind and wonders where the "delete backlog" button is
12:41:51 <BlackBsd> http://www.thetrukstop.com/articles/2007/ten_photos_taken.html
12:41:59 <warlord> Okay, I need to head out. BBL.
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12:42:08 <BlackBsd> these are funny
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13:49:21 <dbr> !tell andi5: you can't eliminate libgnomeprintui -- libgnomeprint depends on it
13:49:42 <jsled> s/!/@/
13:49:50 <dbr> thanks
13:50:07 <dbr> @tell andi5: you can't eliminate libgnomeprintui -- libgnomeprint depends on it
13:50:07 <gncbot> dbr: The operation succeeded.
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15:02:51 <BlackBsd> when looking at the expense pie chart, is it possible to get a percentage of the items also?
15:20:55 <jsled> nope.
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15:47:59 <SOC_Applicant> Hi ya, question for Warlord regarding Google SoC: I am interested in working for thr Dogtail UI test Harness, what sort of tools are going to be used for this? (I know some perl, can write Unix scripts and am happy working in Linux)
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16:19:18 <SOC_Applicant> Are there anyother Summer of Code prospective applicants around here?
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16:25:12 <SOC_Applicant> alive
16:25:18 <SOC_Applicant> ?
16:27:38 <jsled> SOC_Applicant: well, from the dogtail information on the web, dogtail's written in python, and the test scripts are in python as well.
16:34:50 <SOC_Applicant> right... well I have done a summer internship were I was writing up regression tests for a software IP in perl and csh scripts
16:35:27 <SOC_Applicant> I hope if that will help me in getting up to speed with python
16:35:47 <SOC_Applicant> I have been meaning to learn Python for a while and I guess this could be a good chance for me to do so
16:36:35 <SOC_Applicant> are there any specific requirements that you need - say a desirable skillset , apart from python to work on this project?
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16:37:56 <oscar_> Hello
16:37:56 <gncbot> oscar_: Sent 10 hours and 47 minutes ago: <warlord> Do you have the ubuntu slib package(s) installed? Have you read the GnuCash wiki? You MAY need to add a symlink and then run guile and tell it to rebuild the slibcat, but ubuntu should've done that for you.
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16:54:09 <jsled> SOC_Applicant: none in particular. Enthusiasm and a good, solid application are probably the two most important things.
17:33:04 <oscar_> Hello all,
17:33:32 <oscar_> i have a problem compiling gnucash 2.0.5 in ubuntu 6.06
17:33:40 <oscar_> configure gives me this error
17:33:42 <oscar_> checking for SLIB support... configure: error:
17:33:42 <oscar_> Cannot find SLIB. Are you sure you have it installed?
17:33:42 <oscar_> See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347922
17:34:08 <oscar_> Warlord said to: MAY need to add a symlink and then run guile and tell it to rebuild the slibcat
17:34:21 <oscar_> ubuntu apperently did not do that...
17:35:06 <oscar_> but i'm do not know what a symlink is, much less how to add on
17:35:40 <oscar_> Please, i would like step by step instructions if possible, :)
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18:05:14 <administrator> Hello !
18:05:15 <administrator> Can somebody please tell me what do i need to write in invoice.scm to get the JOB-ID-Number of the current invoice.
18:05:16 <administrator> I have tryed to use the following command "gnc:job-get-id job" but i had no luck to get the Job-ID-Number of the Invoce.
18:05:18 <administrator> It looks like that i have first to load a module or init something before i can use the command in invoice.scm.
18:05:20 <administrator> A google search for "gnc:job-get-id job" has show no result
18:05:22 <administrator> http://www.google.ch/search?q=gnc%3Ajob-get-id+job&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial
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18:10:22 <remiss> http://pastebin.ca/408530
18:11:07 <remiss> help? :s
18:14:22 <jsled> remiss: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_does_it_mean_when_GnuCash_.28built_with_g-wrap-1.9.7.29_crashes_with_an_error_about_a_wrong_type_of_argument_in_hook-run-danglers-real.3F
18:14:31 <jsled> remiss: g-wrap-1.9.7 = bad. :(
18:18:35 <remiss> ok, thanks
18:18:53 <remiss> crappy arch linux :@
18:19:14 <jsled> Curious; why use Arch?
18:19:26 <remiss> I ask myself the same question every day
18:19:52 <remiss> just because it's easier than installing and fixing something else and also because it's a bit like slack
18:20:11 * jsled shudders at slack. :)
18:22:01 <jsled> administrator: I'm not sure, but you might try gncJobGetID ... I don't think it'll work, though.
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18:23:27 <jsled> oscar_: well, is slib installed?
18:23:43 <jsled> oscar_: if so, what version?
18:24:13 <jsled> oscar_: you might try finding the packaging script for ubuntu, and see if it does anything "funky" to look for or deal with slib.
18:24:54 <jsled> oscar_: you might also want to find the ubuntu package maintainer, and see if they can help.
18:27:55 <administrator> does somebody have problems compiling gnucash-2.0.5 on ubuntu ?
18:27:56 <remiss> bah.. and ubuntu feisty won't let me install gnucash :(
18:28:21 <jsled> remiss: yeah. Feisty broke gnucash. :(
18:28:55 <administrator> hmmmm...
18:29:29 <administrator> i have tryed to build gnucash-2.0.5 on ubuntu with the newest availble packages
18:29:33 <remiss> hmmm.. I only have arch, ubuntu feisty and centos 4.4...
18:30:10 <remiss> anyone know if I can run gnucash from centos 4.4 on the files from gnucash in arch?
18:31:07 <remiss> 1.8 in centos 4.4.. think it was 2.0 or something in arch
18:31:27 <jsled> administrator: which version of ubuntu?
18:31:57 <administrator> the problem is that the new packages are broken in ubuntu.
18:31:58 <administrator> On Ubuntu-Dapper 6.06 you can compile gnu-cash-2.0.5 without any problems
18:32:00 <administrator> .
18:33:09 <jsled> true. Feisty seems to include gtkhtml-3.13.92, which is a development version; in particular, it claims to support the "gtkhtml-3.8" API, but in fact breaks both API and ABI.
18:33:36 <jsled> Feisty, however, distributes gtkhtml-3.14 as well, which correctly increments the soversion.
18:34:10 <jsled> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/+bug/92477
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18:38:38 <administrator> @ jsled i have in invoice.scm the following command here that work without any problems
18:38:38 <gncbot> administrator: Error: "jsled" is not a valid command.
18:38:40 <administrator> (let ((billing-id (gnc:invoice-get-billing-id invoice)))
18:38:41 <administrator> i will now try the following command. From my side of view it should be work
18:38:43 <administrator> (let ((job-id (gnc:job-get-id invoice)))
18:40:36 <remiss> heh.. funny.. in gnucash 1.8 the norwegian invoice translations are half-done :S
18:41:11 <remiss> I like the 'thank you for your patronage' part though
18:42:43 <remiss> anyone have a distro to recommend?
18:45:10 <administrator> ubuntu 6.06 4 Years support nearly unbreakble
18:45:44 <jsled> I like gentoo
18:45:59 <remiss> already have one of those old-distros on the server (centos).. with gnucash 1.8 :-/
18:46:15 <remiss> jsled: unfortnuately I'm very impatient
18:47:01 <jsled> that's what's great about gentoo! You can compile every single micro-version release as it becomes available. ;)
18:47:18 <remiss> heh.. right, that's what I don't have patience for :p
18:47:26 <oscar_> how do i check if SLIB is installed? i downloaded it from somewhere, and place the contents, in usr/local/lib/slib,
18:47:28 <jsled> ah, heh.
18:47:38 <jsled> oscar_: why didn't you use the slib package?
18:47:41 <remiss> but does gnucash have any dependencies on the packages or will it compile on a two year old box?
18:47:46 <remiss> gnucash-2.0
18:47:52 <oscar_> where is it jsled?
18:48:13 <jsled> remiss: we very intentionally worked to keep gnucash-2.0 compatible with RHEL3/FC4.
18:48:30 <remiss> oh, great.. I'll try compiling it on that box
18:48:37 <jsled> Which, IIRC, Centos-4.4 matches.
18:49:14 <jsled> oscar_: I don't know. You're using ubuntu? Try `apt-cache search slib`, or maybe one of these gents (or ladies, if they are) can suggest a better check.
18:50:28 <oscar_> there's a "slib - Portable Scheme library" is that it?
18:50:33 <jsled> that's it.
18:50:43 <jsled> which version?
18:50:58 <jsled> slib-3.1.1 (3a1)?
18:51:05 <oscar_> 3a2-5
18:51:15 <oscar_> and its installed according to synaptic
18:51:18 <jsled> Oh, that should be fine.
18:52:01 <oscar_> :( its still does not compile
18:52:22 <jsled> oscar_: So, when you try the commands mentioned in that bug, what happens?
18:52:27 <jsled> (racking some beer; biab)
18:53:35 <remiss> anything special configure flags I should know about before starting?
18:55:36 <oscar_> i have guile 1.6, and when i run: guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require
18:55:37 <oscar_> > 'printf)"
18:55:37 <oscar_> ERROR: Could not find slib/require.scm in ("/usr/local/share/guile/site" "/usr/local/share/guile/1.8" "/usr/local/share/guile")
18:56:02 <oscar_> that's what i get... i got that from one of the messages in that bug forum....
18:56:37 <administrator> hoooo compiling gnucash on gentoo
18:56:38 <administrator> Good Luck i itself dont beleve that you can compile gnucash on gentoo.
18:56:40 <administrator> I have worked on gentoo for 6 months. I will never go back to gentoo.
18:56:41 <administrator> In gentoo the dependency are a horror.
18:56:43 <administrator> if somebody is trying to compile gnucash on ubuntu you need installed the package guile-slib for compiling gnucash-2.0.5
18:57:34 <administrator> oscar i itself had also the same problem with slib.
18:57:36 <administrator> You need slib 1.6 other wise it will not work
18:58:06 <oscar_> i don't even know if i have 1.6
18:58:16 <oscar_> i downloaded it from their website
18:58:26 <administrator> dont do that
18:58:33 <oscar_> and all it came with was a bunch of files... I can't do ./configure....
18:58:44 <administrator> i have also downloaded the packages from the websites
18:58:47 <oscar_> what's the bet way?
18:58:52 <oscar_> *best
18:59:12 <oscar_> is there an older version of gnucash that will work?
18:59:22 <administrator> use the packages from the distro
18:59:23 <administrator> I itslef has everything installed with apt-get install
19:00:14 <oscar_> guile-slib is not found in my synaptic....
19:00:26 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
19:00:42 <oscar_> hello warlord
19:00:50 <oscar_> thanks for the message last night
19:00:54 <warlord> oscar_: where did slib install? A symlink is "ln -s ..." ("man ls" for more info)
19:01:03 <administrator> to know what packages you need to be installed read carefully the Packages-Readme file.
19:01:04 <administrator> Install everypackages that stay in this file with apt-get and gnucash-2.0.5 will build without any problems on ubuntu dapper 6.06
19:01:21 <remiss> hmmm... gnucash says it needs libgtkhtml 3.1, .2, .6 or .8... I only have 2.6
19:01:39 <jsled> remiss: right. each of those is a seperate API version. :(
19:01:55 <jsled> And gtkhtml-2 is actually a different library entirely.
19:02:06 <remiss> yay.. gtkhtml3.. nm
19:02:32 <remiss> weird.. never seen that before.. I have both version 1, 2 and 3
19:02:51 <jsled> oscar_: another good "trick" is to install the 2.0.1 package, which will ensure all the dependent packages are installed, then remove it and compile 2.0.5.
19:02:59 <jsled> remiss: seen which?
19:03:15 <remiss> jsled: three different versions of a lib in the repository
19:03:17 <oscar_> i will try 2.0.1
19:03:29 <jsled> administrator: "In gentoo the dependency are a horror." ... it's actually quite sane, in my experience. what do you mean?
19:03:44 <jsled> administrator: also, you can very much compile gnucash on gentoo, ftr.
19:04:27 <remiss> I don't like doing this to era.. she sounds so angry when she has to compile stuff :P
19:04:41 <jsled> remiss: oh, sure. It's not common, but it's quite useful.
19:04:49 <jsled> remiss: angry disks?
19:04:58 <remiss> cpu fan...
19:05:02 <jsled> ah. heh.
19:05:47 <administrator> warlord are you still here ?
19:06:00 <warlord> administrator: yes.. just got back from dinner/drinks..
19:06:06 <warlord> but it's midnight, so wont be here much longer
19:06:10 <jsled> warlord: how's Prague?
19:06:29 <warlord> Wonderful!
19:06:32 <administrator> nice maybe you can help me with this issue
19:06:34 <warlord> VERY inexpensive beer!
19:06:35 <administrator> Can somebody please tell me what do i need to write in invoice.scm to get the JOB-ID-Number of the current invoice.
19:06:36 <administrator> I have tryed to use the following command "gnc:job-get-id job" but i had no luck to get the Job-ID-Number of the Invoce.
19:06:36 <oscar_> i haven't tried the symlink, how is it used?
19:06:37 <administrator> It looks like that i have first to load a module or init something before i can use the command in invoice.scm.
19:06:39 <administrator> A google search for "gnc:job-get-id job" has show no result
19:06:40 <administrator> http://www.google.ch/search?q=gnc%3Ajob-get-id+job&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial
19:06:41 <jsled> warlord: heh. :)
19:06:51 <warlord> administrator: Please dont do that. I saw your message earlier.
19:07:09 <jsled> oscar_: generally, it creates a "pointer" from one file/directory to another.
19:07:17 <administrator> sorry
19:07:50 <warlord> oscar_: you dont want 2.0.1, and it wont be any better. Why is slib installed into /usr/local? Or ... why is GUILE installed into /usr/local ???
19:07:52 <oscar_> so... I guess i don't know which folders i have to link... that's the problem...
19:08:12 <jsled> oscar_: right. Frankly, you shouldn't need to, if you have the slib package installed.
19:08:21 <warlord> administrator: What's the error when you try to call that function?
19:08:28 <oscar_> i did the ./configure make sudo make install for guile
19:08:45 <jsled> oscar_: oh, uh, why didn't you use the guile package? :)
19:08:54 <administrator> con not build invoice
19:08:57 <oscar_> didn't find it i gues
19:09:15 <warlord> oscar_: Um, WHY?
19:09:17 <warlord> That's wrong.
19:09:20 <jsled> oscar_: Oh. You *really* want to stay "inside" the packages and package manager.
19:09:33 <warlord> Install the guile (and slib, and g-wrap) packaged from ubuntu!
19:11:16 <jsled> oscar_: to answer your previous question, the latest gnucash package for ubuntu is either 2.0.1 or 2.0.2: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=gnucash
19:11:47 <oscar_> according to synaptic manager, i have guile 1.6 guile 1.6-dev, guile 1.6-libs, guile 1.6-slib, guile-g-wrap, libguile-ltdl-1, libgwrapguile1
19:13:20 <oscar_> i'm running 6.06, dapper, so gnucash version would be 1.8.12, is that ok?
19:13:40 <administrator> yeah thats right
19:13:49 <warlord> oscar_: yes
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19:13:57 <oscar_> so i can't have 2.0.5?
19:13:59 <warlord> administrator: what's printed in the terminal?
19:14:08 <warlord> oscar_: sure you can
19:14:11 <jsled> That's the official version, and it's okay. http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Ubuntu has details about getting at least 2.0.0 (maybe).
19:14:13 <warlord> oscar_: did you read the wiki?
19:14:21 <oscar_> i tried
19:14:23 <administrator> at oscar i am running gnucash-2.05 on ubuntu 6.06
19:14:44 <administrator> you have ti compiled it by reading the "README" files
19:15:05 <oscar_> that's what i do
19:15:19 <oscar_> that's how i ended up building guile from source
19:15:46 <administrator> you dont need to build guile from sources
19:16:05 <administrator> only install the packages in the readme file with apt-get
19:16:30 <administrator> thats all
19:16:32 <administrator> you will need for the additional libs about 300 MB
19:17:03 <warlord> oscar_: How the F**K did you end up building guile from source???
19:17:18 <warlord> and WHY the ***K
19:17:25 <oscar_> i read the readme..
19:18:11 <oscar_> so i got so used to run ./congfigure, make, sudo make install... that i just did it to see what would happen.... sorry
19:18:47 <oscar_> gnucash 1.8.12 from my synaptic manager runs... fine
19:18:50 <jsled> oscar_: no need to be sorry. Live and learn.
19:19:11 <jsled> oscar_: if you can ever get a package from the package manager, that's the way to go.
19:19:34 <oscar_> i wanted to get 2.0.5, but that was not in the package manager....
19:19:43 <oscar_> that's how this whole mess started
19:19:58 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/BreezyBadgerInstallation has details about how to build gnucash-2.x from source on the Badger.
19:20:16 <warlord> clearly the readme needs to be more explicit about "if your distro doesn't provide...."
19:20:48 <jsled> oscar_: though 6.06 is getting long in the tooth; you might want to get up to Edgy, or just wait for Feisty and upgrade then.
19:20:56 <remiss> 2.0.5 works great btw!
19:21:20 <administrator> on gentoo ?
19:21:24 <jsled> If you do decide to wait and stick with 1.8,rest assured your 1.8 datafile will be read by 2.0 just fine.
19:21:30 <remiss> administrator: centos 4.4
19:21:36 <jsled> oh, cool.
19:21:44 <administrator> sorry warlord
19:21:47 <administrator> here is my problem
19:21:48 <administrator> maybe some one can tell me how i can init the "job" variable
19:21:49 <administrator> becose this here work without any problems in invoices.scm
19:21:51 <administrator> (rechnungsnummer (gnc:invoice-get-id invoice))
19:21:52 <administrator> from my side of view this here should also work if the variable "job" is initialised.
19:21:54 <administrator> (rechnungsnummer (gnc:job-get-id job))
19:21:56 <administrator> P.S. how can i test the hole thing from the console.
19:21:57 <administrator> At the moment i am testing the hole thing by starting gnucash
19:22:07 <oscar_> can i get gnucash 1.8 to download my bank statements from the web?
19:22:33 <warlord> administrator: yes, that WOULD work..
19:22:40 <warlord> but where are you getting "job"?
19:22:54 <administrator> yeah thats the big question
19:23:20 <warlord> well, you tell me.. You're the one that's trying to extract a job from an invoice, but an invoice isn't tied to a job.
19:25:01 <administrator> maybe i understand somthing wrong!
19:25:03 <administrator> As first you register a new custumer
19:25:04 * remiss just printed invoice #000001 :D
19:25:09 <remiss> thank you all
19:25:22 <administrator> then you fill out the first job
19:25:36 <administrator> and after this you make your invoice
19:26:02 <jsled> oscar_: you can import QIF files that you've downloaded.
19:26:21 <jsled> oscar_: And the more recent versions of gnucash support OFX DirectConnect.
19:26:22 <oscar_> ok, thanks jsled
19:26:23 <administrator> if you select a custumer and view the jobs of the custumer you have the possibility to view your invoices to that job ?
19:26:42 <oscar_> pfft that's what i wanted... DirectConnect
19:27:10 <administrator> as i know the invoces should be under the Job account
19:27:17 <oscar_> but I'm having these problems building gnucash 2.0.5... does 1.8 have DirectConnect?
19:27:35 <warlord> administrator: nope, the invoice is for a CUSTOMER. There's no requirement that 1 invoice is 1 job
19:27:58 <jsled> oscar_: nope.
19:29:38 <administrator> in german job is translated as "auftrag" and that means without a Job there is no possibility to make invoices.
19:29:39 <administrator> I want in my Invoces to print out the "JOB" to which this invoices reffer. especially the condition of this invoice
19:30:11 <administrator> normally this is maked with a job contract
19:30:44 <administrator> i hope you can understand me
19:31:27 <oscar_> i entered my biggining balance into a new checking account... is it ok if i import and ofx from my bank?
19:37:58 <warlord> administrator: Well, you unfortunately misunderstood. you CAN have an invoice without a job. You can easily print the "Billing ID" from the invoice.
19:39:11 *** dbr-afk is now known as dbr
19:40:19 <administrator> well in this case the Billing ID is the "Auftrag".
19:40:21 <administrator> I must say you that in the german gnucash-2.0.5 version the words "Billing" and "Invoice" have the same word "Rechnung"
19:40:22 <administrator> I have asked me more than two hours why does gnucash-2.0.5 use two times the same word
19:40:25 <dbr> oscar_: Importing doesn't conflict with entering a beginning balance, but it's possible the first time you reconcile will require careful checking that the beginning balance was the right one
19:41:56 <oscar_> yeah, i saw that... that's what i'm trying to figure out... should the beginning balance be the balance i had after(or before) the oldest transaction in the ofx file?
19:42:42 <administrator> it looks like that not only i dont understand the difference between billing and invoice
19:42:43 <warlord> administrator: because in English they ARE different words
19:42:44 <administrator> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-de/2006-May/004008.html
19:42:46 <administrator> > Es gibt in 1.8.9 2 Blöcke "Rechnungs-Informationen"
19:42:46 <dbr> I think the beginning balance should be the one that would have existed just prior to the first transaction that appears
19:42:47 <administrator> > 1. Invoice Information
19:42:48 <administrator> > Invoice ID/Rechnungsnummer (korrekt)
19:42:50 <administrator> > 2. Billing Information
19:42:51 <administrator> > Billing ID/Rechnungsnummer erscheint auf der Rechnung als
19:42:59 <warlord> administrator: PLEASE STOP THAT!
19:43:11 <administrator> what ?
19:45:37 <warlord> you dont need to copy-and-paste discussions.
19:45:46 <warlord> (without being asked to cut-and-paste them)
19:46:22 <warlord> Yes, I know that in GERMAN they are the same word. That's a (potential) problem with the translation. In English they ARE different words and have different meanings... Even if they are SUBTLE meanings.
19:46:40 <dbr> oscar_: except that if some of the transactions appear at the bank out of order compared to your records, you may need to recalculate the beginning balance after some other download has 'filled in' the 'missing' transactions
19:47:21 <oscar_> i see
19:48:20 <oscar_> i tried it like you said... and the ending balance was off by a little bit... the transactions could be out of order...
19:49:07 <administrator> i have do that becose my goal was to show you easly that in gnucash the words are the same.
19:49:09 <administrator> It was only a small copy of a big file.
19:49:10 <administrator> However if i understand you right then invoces are the lettere with the upcomings numbers that go to the custumers.
19:49:12 <administrator> Billings are the different contracts for a custumer.
19:49:13 <administrator> The question now is for what is job used ?
19:49:35 <dbr> I usually wait for the second statement after I change systems to try and work this out. That way I really know what has cleared the bank and what belongs in the 'beginning balance' total
19:49:36 <warlord> administrator: but they are NOT the same words.
19:49:49 <warlord> they are ONLY the same in the translation. Within gnucash they are NOT the same.
19:50:01 <warlord> administrator: the job really isn't used for anything.
19:51:54 <administrator> well in this case my problem is solved. Mybe some one should in a wiki expalin the words a little better.
19:51:55 <administrator> I will make a photo and upload it to the web in the next two minitues to show you that this is from my side a bug becouse the two words should not be used two times in different position.
19:52:12 <warlord> administrator: email the translote
19:52:16 <warlord> er, translator
19:52:26 <warlord> it's NOT a gnucash problem, it's a translation problem.
19:52:52 <oscar_> i believe i got the correct biggining balace, after an ofx import... the Assets checking account shows the exact ammount for the ending balance as my bank... Equity = biggining balance, but not equal to my assets, is that ok?
19:54:05 <dbr> oscar_: I think so. The equity account just let's you get started at some point in time. It doesn't have to match anything as long as the related accounts reconcile correctly.
19:55:07 <oscar_> thanks dbr
19:55:22 <dbr> oscar_: you're welcome
19:56:02 <administrator> warlord do you know why the "billing" function is not such good implemented in gnucash as the "Job" function.
19:56:04 <administrator> What i etremly like is for example the search for invocies to a job.
19:56:05 <administrator> If i am not wrong this possibility is not given for the "billing" function.
19:56:07 <administrator> From my side of view this should be the opposite way. Do you dont think also ?
19:56:44 <warlord> administrator: I'm sorry, I'm not understanding you properly.
19:57:10 <warlord> A Job in GnuCash is like multiple contracts to the same company.
19:57:15 <warlord> But you invoice the COMPANY, not the Job.
19:57:30 <warlord> And you can put multiple jobs onto one Invoice
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20:05:29 <administrator> here is the picture that show the problem
20:05:31 <administrator> http://www.bilder-speicher.de/07032501791352.vollbild.html
20:06:03 <administrator> two times RechnungsNummer
20:06:37 <administrator> two times on different places Rechnungs Informationen
20:08:02 <warlord> administrator: what part of "this is not a gnucash problem, this is a translation problem" are you failing to understand?
20:08:32 <warlord> run gnucash in English and you will see that those two windows are different.
20:08:38 <warlord> (er, two labels)
20:08:43 <warlord> ..... Back in a bit...
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20:16:23 <administrator> maybe someone other can help me with this issue.
20:16:25 <administrator> You have a new custumer and make a new cotract with this custumer.
20:16:27 <administrator> Under what do you put this contract now under "Job" or "Billing" in gnucash
20:16:28 <administrator> after the first week you make the first invoice for this custumer.
20:16:30 <administrator> Normally you make in gnucash for that a invoice or a bill ?
20:22:15 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
20:22:41 <warlord> Invoice -> Customer. Bill -> Vendor
20:22:52 <administrator> at warlord you have write that "A Job in GnuCash is like multiple contracts to the same company".
20:22:53 <administrator> My question to you is now how can you know which "Job" does refere to a invoice
20:23:10 <warlord> A job does NOT refer to an invoice
20:24:13 <administrator> you put normally in a invoce data like price discount and so on that belong to the Job Contract
20:25:01 <warlord> perhaps... but an invoice itself does not refer to a Job. An Invoice refers to a Customer, for which you may have multiple jobs, all invoicing at the same time!
20:26:25 <administrator> thats correct.
20:26:27 <administrator> The big question is only is if you send 100 of invoices to a custumer that has 100 different jobs.
20:26:29 <administrator> How do you know which Invoice refer to which Job Contract
20:26:57 <warlord> The Billing ID
20:27:58 <administrator> The Billing ID ? Why do you not put simple the Job Contract Number. Why is needing i new number ?
20:28:44 <administrator> The billing Number is bad in Gnucash becouse is not good implemented as the Job function
20:29:02 <warlord> administrator: yes it is. you're being confused because of the translation.
20:29:40 <administrator> In gnucash you can search for invoices to a job number. searching for invoices to a billing number is not implemented in gnucash
20:29:47 <warlord> Correct.
20:30:05 <warlord> THAT isn't implemented.
20:30:12 <warlord> Implementing that would be easy.
20:30:55 <administrator> by printing the Job number on the Invoces with "gnc:job-get-id" ?
20:31:02 <warlord> but keep this in mind.. Each side has an ID. The customer has an ID referring to the job (e.g. a PO#), and you have an ID referring back to them (InvoiceID).
20:31:13 <warlord> No.
20:31:18 <warlord> The job# is irrelevant
20:31:35 <warlord> It's the BILLING ID that you want to put on an invoice.
20:31:45 <warlord> That's effectively the customer's PO#, and that's already there.
20:35:01 <administrator> from my side of view the billing number has no information to the maked contract with the custumer that hold the key information that you put on the invoices.
20:35:02 <administrator> You have write that a job is nothing else as making different contracts to a custumer.
20:35:04 <administrator> What a enterprise now need is a controll number printed on the invoices that refer to that contract and can be easyly finded in gnucash
20:35:31 <warlord> administrator: THATS WHAT THE BILLING ID IS FOR!
20:35:47 <warlord> Job -> BillingID -> Customer's Key to the Contract!
20:36:14 <warlord> perhaps the UI needs some "Your" and "Their" in there..
20:36:59 <administrator> but why does gnucash dont provide the easy possibility to find invoices to a BillingID then ?
20:37:00 <administrator> why is this function implemented under the "Job"
20:37:01 <warlord> but the core is still implemented correctly (except, perhaps, for the ability to search on invoice based on the BillingID. File a bug report for that)
20:37:14 <warlord> Because I never needed it.
20:37:49 <administrator> do you dont think this should be provided in gnucash ?
20:38:24 <warlord> I didn't say that.
20:38:45 <warlord> I said " (except, perhaps, for the ability to search on invoice based on the BillingID. File a bug report for that)"
20:39:13 <administrator> ok tell me how ?
20:39:15 <administrator> Do i need to register what is the link ?
20:39:26 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla
20:41:04 <administrator> thanks your are great !
20:41:06 <administrator> P.S. i think i will became the maintaner for gnucash in ubuntu6.06 till the end of the week i should have a selfinstlable gnuash deb package.
20:42:55 <warlord> ok
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20:45:30 <SDGathman> Is there a hotkey for "Split Transaction" ? Or a way to add one? gnucash-2.0.4
20:45:44 <SDGathman> I can do all my data entry with just keyboard except split transactions.
20:45:50 <SDGathman> I dread them... :-)
20:45:52 <warlord> SDGathman: there is not a hotkey.
20:46:25 <SDGathman> Is it a simple thing to add to the GUI?
20:46:28 <warlord> ... but you can set one.
20:46:36 <SDGathman> Since it is a menu option?
20:46:48 <SDGathman> How do you set one?
20:47:01 <warlord> Um, I think so.. I've never done it, but I think you hover over the menu option and click the hotkey you want.. but make sure it's not an existing hotkey
20:47:26 <SDGathman> (Or at least not one you want ...)
20:47:29 <SDGathman> I'll try it.
20:48:37 <SDGathman> Didn't work. Tried Alt-S.
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20:54:58 <administrator> Bug successfull entered in bugzilla
20:54:59 <administrator> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422480
20:55:01 <administrator> Wish to everybody good night.
20:55:03 <administrator> By By
20:55:11 <warlord> goo dnight
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20:57:19 <andi5> dbr: still here?
20:57:29 <dbr> yep
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20:57:59 <andi5> dbr: hiho :) ... first of all, why do you think that libgnomeprint depends on libgnomeprintui?
20:58:43 <dbr> hi. because when I ran install.sh, it quit with the complaint that lignomeprint needs libgnomeprintui
20:58:58 <dbr> *libgnomeprint
20:59:01 <andi5> what complained when?
20:59:42 <andi5> maybe you did not install gtkhtml correctly and it falls back to gnomeprint.... we could try to check that :)
21:00:08 <andi5> dbr: what about `pkg-config-msys.sh --modversion libgtkhtml-3.14' ?
21:00:09 <dbr> the script aborted early. and there was an error message (sorry, didn't save it) that I needed libgnomeprintui
21:01:22 <dbr> 3.14.0
21:01:42 <andi5> did you arrive at step_gnucash?
21:02:02 <dbr> not that time -- it was reinstalling Gnome
21:03:03 <andi5> and failed at the end of inst_gnome, i.e. after extracting all sorts of packages?
21:03:15 <dbr> yes
21:03:22 <dbr> but none of them were installed
21:03:35 <dbr> that is no Gnome directory in /c/soft yet
21:03:43 <andi5> huh??
21:04:39 <andi5> dbr: so where is your libgtkhtml-3.14.pc?
21:04:41 <dbr> I threw away the Gnome directory to make sure it reinstalled the newest versions of things, and the script unpacked a bunch of things, gave me the error, but hadn't reinstantiated the Gnome install directory
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21:08:21 <andi5> Trac detected an internal error: [...] OperationalError: database is locked ....
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21:09:22 <dbr> I just retry when that happens
21:09:38 <hampton2> jsled: you around? trac is complaining that the database is locked
21:09:58 <dbr> gnome/lib/pkgconfig/libgtkhtml-3.14.pc
21:10:20 <andi5> dbr: so you have a complete c:/soft/gnome tree now?
21:10:43 <dbr> yes. I readded the ...ui lines to custom.sh and install.sh
21:11:27 <andi5> dbr: i do not have them installed and rebuilt completely today, so it _should_ work without them :)
21:12:44 <dbr> andi5: hmm. I'll dig around a bit. Maybe I've screwed something up in profile.d
21:13:58 <andi5> dbr: i doubt that file will make problems, unless you played with the dirs in custom.sh excessively (e.g. have two gnome trees now)
21:14:16 <andi5> dbr: what about `pkg-config-msys.sh --modversion libgtkhtml-3.8'?
21:14:50 <dbr> andi5: I don't think I twisted custom.sh at all. I tried once, and just ripped it out and went with the defaults.
21:15:49 <dbr> andi5: 'no package 'libgtkhtml-3.8' found'
21:16:42 <andi5> that looks right... i still wonder what complained about missing gnomeprintui.... *will recompile libgsf and goffice, just to check*
21:18:02 <dbr> that might do it. I pitched Gnome, but not libgsf. Could that have been complaining?
21:18:47 <dbr> gotta go play cab driver for my daughter. biab
21:18:56 <andi5> dbr: see you
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21:48:25 <andi5> dbr-afk: libgsf and goffice compiled just fine as well..... maybe you forgot to remove gnucash/build and inst? ... please also note that there are at least two major bugs in gtkhtmls printing support (content in black boxes, everything on the first page)... if they are not fixed in time for 2.2, we will probably have to go back to gnomeprint on windows... i hope that will not be necessary though :)
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23:24:47 <jvik> That's "keeping". Some of the reports don't seem to be working for me - I just wondered if there are known problems?
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23:27:15 <jvik> E.g. the budget report requires options be set, but nothing I set produces a result.
23:30:37 <dbr> have you created a budget?
23:35:11 <jvik> Ah ha! Nope, guess I haven't got that far in the tutorial. At least I'm in the process of rtfm:-) Thanks!