2007-03-11 GnuCash IRC logs

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12:23:55 <Mekzholan> Hi, who can help me with geting online stock information?
12:26:04 <Mekzholan> I tried everything and starting GnuCash prints 'gnucash: [M] "Found Finance::Quote version ""1.13"' - but I see no option to get the current price :(
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12:27:58 <jsled> Mekzholan: Tools > Price Editor
12:30:02 <Mekzholan> Thanks!
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12:35:44 <Mekzholan> different question: is it possible to automatically catch all the newest transactions (via HBCI; different accounts) and stock prices?
12:37:35 <Mekzholan> (and even recognize and book transactions between the different accounts that get updated via HBCI?)
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13:00:44 <TheNut> Can I ask whether I can ask a question?
13:01:23 <TheNut> Ack! Paraparadox!
13:02:14 <TheNut> Anyhoo. Can I automatically transfer a percentage of a particular class of transaction to another account?
13:02:30 <TheNut> eg. A percentage of (total) earnings into savings.
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13:29:07 <jsled> TheNut: automatically?
13:31:44 <TheNut> Well I don't want to have to work out every N days how much to transfer.
13:31:54 <TheNut> Calculations are the computer's job.
13:32:10 <TheNut> Otherwise they'd be called something else.
13:32:45 <jsled> So, do you want scheduled transactions?
13:33:24 <jsled> (vs. operating over a set of transactions)
13:33:34 <jsled> (or vs. do the computation as you enter the transaction manually?)
13:33:46 <TheNut> I don't know.
13:33:51 <TheNut> The third sounds pretty good.
13:34:18 <jsled> Hmm. Well, the "every N days" made it sound like you wanted scheduled transactions.
13:34:46 <jsled> So ... gnucash will remember previous transactions, and do autocomplete.
13:35:05 <jsled> But there's no first order "here are the list of transaction templates" feature, apart from scheduled transactions.
13:35:08 <TheNut> Oh, no, 'every N days' == 'whenever I get around to sorting out my most recent batch of finances'.
13:35:15 <jsled> Got it.
13:36:08 <jsled> The other thing to note is that the credit/debit cells can take simple formulæ. So if you made a $500 deposit, and want to split 10% of it into savings, you can enter "500 * .9" or "500 * .1", and when you tab out of the cell, it'll do the calculation.
13:37:00 <TheNut> I considered a weekly or monthly scheduled transaction but I couldn't see any way of telling it to work out 'X% of all increments to date'.
13:38:56 <TheNut> Sorry - all increments since the last of these scheduled transactions occured.
13:40:30 <jsled> Yeah, there's no good way to do that. I suppose you could run a report, at least to get the value to manually copy into this percentage transaction.
13:41:14 <TheNut> Is there a function to 'sum all credit or debits since date X/Y/Z'
13:42:01 <jsled> In the API, sure. Or a simple loop could be written in code.
13:42:27 <jsled> But there's not an existant one.
13:42:37 <TheNut> Is this function accessible to scheduled transactions?
13:43:07 <jsled> scheme-defined functions are available to scheduled transactions formulæ, yes.
13:43:13 <jsled> See `fin.scm` for an example.
13:43:26 <jsled> But...
13:44:01 <jsled> Dates aren't inserted into formulæ. So one would need to make the date some computation of the current time, probably.
13:44:28 <jsled> i.e., the function could be "sum-credits-since-first-of-this-month" or something.
13:44:49 <jsled> But not "sum-credits-since( $date )", because the SX engine doesn't know to interpolate "date".
13:45:05 <jsled> The only value it does interpolate is "i", the current scheduled transaction instance number.
13:45:36 <TheNut> And there is no way to make it interpolate the date?
13:46:06 <jsled> If you assume very regularly created SXes, you could probably mis-use "i" to be some (inverse-)function of the date, but that's brittle.
13:46:15 <jsled> Sure: modify the C code and re-build. :)
13:46:16 <TheNut> Surely a scheduled transaction has access to more than just one variable.
13:46:36 <jsled> Not as written, no.
13:46:47 <TheNut> Oh.
13:47:13 <jsled> That is: the only variable bound in the context of evaluating the formulæ is 'i'.
13:48:23 <jsled> But the functions are arbitrary scheme, so they have access to everything.
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13:49:25 <TheNut> ... assuming one knows scheme.
13:49:53 <jsled> Yes.
13:50:39 <jsled> Any other questions at the moment? My roof isn't going to rake itself... :)
13:51:12 <TheNut> Yeah - how do you learn the relevant scheme in 10 minutes?
13:51:17 <jsled> Heh heh.
13:51:17 <TheNut> I need to go out at 6.
13:51:30 <jsled> Well, there are some good scheme tutorials on the interwebs.
13:51:45 <jsled> But 10 minutes is not enough time, no.
13:53:24 <jsled> It's probably going to take more time to figure out the gnucash model/api than scheme.
13:55:32 <jsled> At the end of the day, it's a simple sum, like you say. In a functional language, this is something like reduce(accumulation-fn, 0, transaction-list)...
13:55:56 <jsled> where accumulation-function is ultimately "+"...
13:56:24 <jsled> ... and transaction list is the "credit-splits of transactions of $account since $date".
13:56:33 <jsled> Which is more gnucash concepts than scheme concepts.
13:56:57 <jsled> There's another wrinkle that will make this brittle, which is expressing the "account" in your function.
13:57:21 <jsled> The "best" way is via the account's GUID, which is invariant across account re-naming or re-parenting...
13:57:37 <jsled> But it's not very editing-friendly.
13:58:04 <jsled> There's also dealing with the account getting deleted, which a hack solution probably doesn't need to solve.
13:59:17 <jsled> Ultimately, this all gets down to the "expression editor" project, too. More details of that on the <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/SoC2007#Enhanced_Expression_Parser>.
13:59:42 <jsled> I'm happy to answer questions later, but for the moment I'm AFK. Cheers.
14:05:24 <TheNut> Oh, sorry, stuff was said.
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14:50:53 <alfmatos> hi, i'm trying to create a saving account, with fixed interest rate... how do i go about doing that ? I already have the account setup, but i don't see how i can setup the interests, and then get things like a long-term evolution report
14:53:50 <alfmatos> (is this the right place to ask ?)
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15:44:43 <jsled> alfmatos: there's no direct support for representing the interest on a savings account, though...
15:45:24 <alfmatos> jsled, so how do i do it ? just add a transaction when i have incoming interests ?
15:45:28 <jsled> ... you could create a scheduled transaction that represented the interest payments; however, there is no way to get the "current" value of the account to do the appropriate calculation.
15:45:35 <jsled> Or that, yes.
15:46:01 <alfmatos> jsled, yah, i though about the schelud transaction, but faced the problem you talk about
15:46:14 <jsled> One thing to do is create the scheduled transaction (SX), but use a variable (any text string) for the amount; then you'll be prompted when the SX comes due, and can enter the appropriate amount manually.
15:46:17 <alfmatos> there is no way to capitalize and calculate on the ammount...
15:46:53 <alfmatos> uhmm, i see.
15:46:58 <jsled> So long as you don't flow money into/outof the account, you could enter the appropriate formula...
15:47:03 <jsled> But it's very limited, true.
15:47:48 <alfmatos> what i really wanted to do is get some reports on the interest, so i could compare banks savings options...
15:47:49 <jsled> There's vague plans to make it better, but it's non-trivial. Not super-hard, of course, just needs someone to sit down and do a bunch of work.
15:48:19 <alfmatos> yah, it figures
15:49:31 <jsled> (strangely, the second time I've been able to use this link in less than 2 hours) More details about what would be great for that <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/SoC2007#Enhanced_Expression_Parser>.
15:52:11 <alfmatos> uhmm, for the savings accounts, it could be simpler than that, right ?
15:52:51 <alfmatos> something like in the account options have a period and rate... that actually saves it's info as scheduled transactions...
15:53:28 <alfmatos> is there a way to get future reports ?
15:53:54 <alfmatos> like, show me my expected balance at the end of this year
15:53:58 <jsled> Sure ... a special-case editor, then. Note that there's no way to have "private" scheduled transactions, though ... i.e., private to the savings Account
15:54:01 <jsled> But that could be added, too.
15:54:04 <jsled> Based on SXes?
15:54:11 <alfmatos> yep.
15:54:48 <alfmatos> that takes your scheduled transactions and current balance, and calculates stuff
15:55:06 <jsled> no, there's not. It's oft-requested. Peter McAlpine is/would like to have that, but is sidetracked fixing some problems with modularity in gnucash so he can develop on his macintel box.
15:55:42 <alfmatos> uhmm ok, nice, so something to keep tuned into
16:03:18 <jsled> Oh, wow, Bug#364946 is resolved fixed. Excellent.
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17:26:14 <Absurd-Mind> hi, i have a little problem, i hope someone can help me. I want to set my income, but he wants a source account, but i dont know what to choose?!
17:28:51 <jsled> Absurd-Mind: this is covered in the Tutorial can Concepts Guide, which is recommended reading.
17:28:56 <jsled> The short answer is Equity.
17:29:09 <jsled> Excuse me, you said, Income?
17:29:30 <jsled> Income is ... well... Income.
17:29:36 <Absurd-Mind> hmmm
17:30:03 <jsled> So, (e.g.) paychecks are transactions against an Income account and an Assets account.
17:30:07 <Absurd-Mind> mom pls
17:30:30 <Absurd-Mind> my mother is talking to me...
17:31:52 <Absurd-Mind> so
17:32:16 <Absurd-Mind> another problem is that i have the software on german
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17:36:09 <Absurd-Mind> .oO( it is very hard working with a software which uses very special words... )
17:36:19 <jsled> Would you rather it was in english?
17:38:01 <Absurd-Mind> it would be even harder -.-
17:38:26 <jsled> Ah. Well, there are other translations; I'm not sure which would be more helpful for you.
17:39:26 <Absurd-Mind> no its not the translation, it is very good, but as a student you dont use these words unless you are studying business studies...
17:39:51 <jsled> Ah. Well, the tutorial and concepts guide helps to explain it, and how to enter transactions.
17:40:46 <Absurd-Mind> do i have to book my income negative?
17:41:01 <Absurd-Mind> i.e. i get 100€, then i have to book -100€?
17:41:08 <jsled> No.
17:43:14 <Absurd-Mind> hmmm
17:43:27 <jsled> Absurd-Mind: how did you create your accounts?
17:44:24 <Absurd-Mind> gnucash did it
17:44:40 <jsled> you used the New Account Hierarchy druid, then?
17:44:58 <jsled> Maybe selecting "common" accounts?
17:45:25 <Absurd-Mind> yeah
17:45:52 <jsled> In any case, a transaction involving both Income and Assets will only have positive value changes in both accounts.
17:46:19 <jsled> So ... where are you seeing a negative value?
17:46:46 <Absurd-Mind> Ah!
17:47:09 <Absurd-Mind> adding the value one col right ^^
17:47:37 <Absurd-Mind> ok, thx
17:51:01 <Absurd-Mind> is it possible to set a default source account?
17:51:47 <jsled> No, but why would you want that?
17:52:20 <Absurd-Mind> i book most the time from only one account
17:52:31 <Absurd-Mind> and i always have to set it...
17:53:00 <jsled> Which account?
17:53:57 <jsled> I mean, you can enter the transactions in the register of that account.
17:54:27 <jsled> If you're only ever entering Assets -> Expenses transacitons, then it should only take two keystrokes to enter "Ex" to select Expenses.
17:54:39 <Absurd-Mind> hmmm
17:55:16 <Absurd-Mind> yeah, but i want that "food" is always taken from "liquid funds" (?)
17:55:44 <jsled> I guess it's arguable that that's two more than it needs to be, but between auto-complete. account-completion and a reasonable expense hierarchy, I don't know ...
17:55:53 <jsled> Is the description always "food"?
17:56:35 <Absurd-Mind> no, the dest. account is always changing
17:56:42 <jsled> Yeah, silly question.
17:56:48 <Absurd-Mind> ^^
17:57:00 <Absurd-Mind> not sillier than mine...
17:57:37 <jsled> Well, you could enter that transaction from the Liquid Funds register, and at least one side is already specified.
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17:59:25 <Absurd-Mind> and i can enter it from the food register and the other side is set -.-
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17:59:55 <Absurd-Mind> i think it would be a very nice feature to set a default source for each account
18:00:18 <Absurd-Mind> like you're going to the food account, clik on book, and dont have to set any account
18:04:34 <jsled> Yeah, I can see it. Please file an RFE at
18:04:34 <jsled> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=GnuCash
18:05:17 <warlord> Absurd-Mind: why not just always enter from the Cash or Checking accounts?
18:06:07 <Absurd-Mind> because i still have to enter one account, which is always the same
18:07:19 <warlord> it'll autocomplete the transfer account from the description field.
18:08:04 <warlord> (i'm coming to this late, so I dont know your original question)
18:08:35 <Absurd-Mind> hmmm
18:08:51 <Absurd-Mind> look, i want to book to food
18:08:59 <Absurd-Mind> so i go to the food account
18:09:21 <Absurd-Mind> click on book, and i have to set the source account to liquid funds
18:09:25 <Absurd-Mind> every time.....
18:09:55 <Absurd-Mind> if there would be a default source account, i could set the amount hit enter and voila
18:10:02 <warlord> like I said, do it the other way around..
18:10:07 <jsled> warlord: it doesn't matter.
18:10:17 <jsled> it's the same problem from the other side.
18:10:19 <warlord> Don't go to the expense report, go to the Liquid Funds acocunt.
18:10:32 <Absurd-Mind> yeah
18:10:47 <Absurd-Mind> but than i have to set the dest account everytime to food
18:10:48 <jsled> Absurd-Mind: a workaround is to create a transaction with the description "Food" that has the right splits.
18:10:59 <jsled> Let gnucash auto-complete to build the splits, then just edit the description and amounts.
18:11:08 <jsled> (or amount, depending on register style)
18:11:23 <jsled> Ghetto, but ...
18:12:51 * warlord shrugs
18:13:07 <Absurd-Mind> uff, i have to register to bugzilla -.-
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18:17:10 <jsled> Huh ... at what point did keyboards disable the function keys by default?
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18:19:44 <Absurd-Mind> which Component? Budgets?
18:19:50 <Absurd-Mind> or general?
18:19:59 <jsled> general. (budgets?)
18:21:54 <Absurd-Mind> uff, i should study something where you dont need to speak english -.-
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18:33:36 <Absurd-Mind> i hope the bug report helps...
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19:09:41 <hampton> http://taxgeek.sourceforge.net/
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22:00:00 <hampton> wow. firefox drag-n-drop of tabs works between instances running on different computers.
22:01:02 <chris> hampton: that's the upside. The downside is that it forces a reload even when it's within the same instance.
22:01:40 <hampton> make sense given they way they'd need to implement it to work between instances.
22:02:15 <hampton> I didn't know that though
22:11:32 <warlord> sounds cool.
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22:25:36 <jsled> on different computers? Like via VNC/vmware, or...?
22:26:24 <jsled> I'd guess it's just a copy data of type text/url-list or whatever it is.
22:31:30 <warlord> I'm guessing via multiple desktops, or remote-X..
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23:50:28 <hampton> I did a d-n-d from my firefox on laptop to firefox on my desktop
23:57:57 <warlord> How?