2007-03-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:53:05 <johnf> is it possible to work out which payment was applied to a particular invoice?
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02:19:42 <hampton> jsled: cool video
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17:30:37 <jroysdon> Hey, I've got a question about budgeting in Gnucash... I've read about 1/3rd of http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Budgets and would really like to hear some practical examples of how others are implimenting a budget in gnucash..
17:31:25 <jroysdon> As a side note, I've been using Gnucash for... 3-4 years or so, but basically to track account balances and transactions and scheduled transactions.
17:32:10 <jroysdon> I'm considering making sub-accounts for all my long-term budget items (things I need to contribute some money to each month so that I have it available at some later point in the year), and just using reports to help solve how much I've spend in categories.
17:32:32 <jroysdon> I just don't want to go down a long road and find there is a much better way to do it.
17:34:13 <jroysdon> help - anyone awake?
17:35:13 *** jsled changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. Gnucash 2.0.5 is released! The remove-group branch has landed - check it out! FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a *publically-logged* channel, <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>"
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17:42:49 * jroysdon waits
17:43:49 <dbr> I don't use budgets. Sorry. For near-term, I use advance-posted transactions and scheduled transactions created early.
17:45:30 <jroysdon> I also use scheduled transactions created earlier for upcoming bills and such. What/where is advance-portsted transactions?
17:46:03 <dbr> I just create them in the register with a date in the future.
17:46:08 <jroysdon> gah, I'm running gnucash 1.8.12, might not be in this version (the latest that FC5 updates to).
17:46:17 <jroysdon> ah, got it, same, that's what I do with upcoming bills.
17:47:15 <jroysdon> But this is stuff, for instance like a birthday that occurs in 12 months. I know I'll limit myself to $200, and want to start moving that much over to savings each month, *but* keep track of how much of the money in savings is for that future expense.
17:47:48 <jroysdon> (that, and I don't want to make 40 micro transactions, I want to make one big transaction for all the savings totals)
17:48:49 <dbr> Hmm. That sounds like one transaction from the source account and one split for every itemized subaccount, but I don't use subaccounts that much either.
17:48:58 <jroysdon> I just tried creating a sub-account for each in my Savings, and then doing split transactions for the total amount coming out of checking, and into each sub-account... problem is I can't see at the main-account level how much should be there.
17:49:19 <jroysdon> dbr - yup, you just described what I started to do, and then thought - nah, that doesn't seem right
17:49:51 <jroysdon> I mean, it would work, if I just ignored the balance in the main savings parent account, but I need to make sure it's accurate as well.
17:49:52 <dbr> somewhere there's an option (IIRC) to have the main account total include all the subaccounts
17:50:14 <jroysdon> ah.. it does in the Accounts view, but not when I open up the account itself
17:50:31 <dbr> yeah, that sounds right...
17:50:39 <jroysdon> ah, wait, there is an "Open subaccounts"
17:51:25 <jroysdon> That shows me all the split transactions into the subaccounts in the same view, but still doesn't get me a main account total at each one of the checking transfers
17:51:56 <jroysdon> (just gives me a list of transactions, no running balance)
17:54:11 <jroysdon> I wonder if I could get a report from it like that with totals... still, it's not as useful in finding typos and mistakes as a live account view.
17:55:40 <jroysdon> oh, and how can I integrate all of this with this sms budget aimbot I found? ;-p
17:55:48 <jroysdon> (that's what I'm trying to do this weekend...)
17:55:51 <dbr> re: making sure the main balance is correct, (again IIRC) you can also tell gnucash to include subaccounts in the reconcile process
17:56:15 <dbr> sms budget?
17:56:44 <jroysdon> oh, it's a cool aimbot (automated AOL instant messager) that allows you to SMS (from your cell phone) when you make purchases or deposits
17:57:07 <dbr> If it'll export QIF, you could import those
17:57:24 <jroysdon> Yeah, that's my plan, to get it to put it into QIF format or something like that.
17:57:50 <jroysdon> So, last night I SMS'd it: 18 eoc panda (for $18 catagory Eating Out Couple at Panda Express). It tells me I have $22 left in my EOC budget for the month ;-p
17:58:50 <jroysdon> http://lifehacker.com/software/budgetbot/hack-attack-the-aim-budgetbot-187215.php
17:59:19 <jroysdon> mostly useful when you have a spouse who can't keep track of purchases, but loves to send text messages ;-)'
17:59:20 <dbr> sounds cool, but I'm too cheap to pay for an sms package for myself (my daughter, otoh, has the message credits in this house...)
18:00:04 <jroysdon> my cell provider has unlimited sms as part of our package, so it's useful to us, plus we use it sms way more than talking since we're always in meetings.
18:01:01 <jroysdon> ok, so I need to get to the reconsole process (which I never use)
18:01:03 <dbr> yeah. AT&T used to have a better deal than Cingular now has. At some point I might get there (like a year after the iPhone comes out).
18:01:55 <jroysdon> I have a "local" provider called Cricket. unlimited cell, unlimited ld, unlimited sms/mms for $45/mo. Works great for us, we don't have a home phone thanks to it.
18:02:16 <jroysdon> I think MetroPCS has deals that are simular, but don't have the same coverage area that I needed though.
18:03:08 <dbr> I'm in the hinterlands of PA, where there aren't many local options, just the big guys. I also need more roaming than I used to.
18:03:42 <jroysdon> actually, I think that deal is for $35/mo, but then I added "all markets" access for $5/mo as I was in Denver last month, but I need to drop that. plus $5 for my phone as I travel, so my normal rate is $40/mo, but my Wife's is just $35/mo. Since my company reimburses up to $75/mo, it's basically free for us (we just pay the taxes).
18:04:26 <jroysdon> yeah, my job I'm able to just not answer a lot of calls and use my PC to talk for work whenever roaming. sms doesn't ever cost while roaming, which is part of why we use it a lot
18:04:43 <jroysdon> (plus we do a lot of email to sms+email which is faster)
18:05:50 <jroysdon> ah, ok, I think I'll just use the reconsile option with subaccounts, and the main account total in the accounts view...
18:06:18 <jroysdon> budgetting is a brave new world for us... we can get it on paper where we want money to go, but to actually do it... that's the new challenge
18:06:42 <dbr> I first got a cell when my former employer said "We're not going to pay for one, but you go spend a bunch of time fixing a pipeline in Texas..." I figured it was worth it to just pay for the cheapest plan I could find.
18:07:23 <jroysdon> heh, yeah. Mine has a good deal with just giving us up to $75/mo to pay for it and let us manage what plans/options we want.
18:07:24 <dbr> We've been fortunate enough to avoid the monthly budget hassles, but I record almost everything.
18:07:42 <jroysdon> oh, I get it all, but just not broken down to sub-categories...
18:07:43 <dbr> Then I can go back, analyze, and then project
18:08:03 <jroysdon> like, we have large amounts of purchases at Costco, but I know it's not all groceries.
18:08:49 <dbr> I have about 50 expense accounts, so we do pretty well
18:09:14 <dbr> I don't usually split the mostly groceries, but a few extras purchases.
18:09:20 <jroysdon> so, this way, she'll have to break down her purchases, but she can do it pretty fast from her cell. Just put in the total amount for GRoceries, and then the splits for BIrthdayJason $20 GIftsgiven-other $5 PersonalCare
18:09:29 <dbr> but I do split the one appliance plus a few groceries.
18:09:44 <jroysdon> right, that's the sort of thing that gets us
18:09:55 <jroysdon> usually it's stuff like gifts, clothes, personal care
18:10:17 <jroysdon> but it doesn't belong in groceries and screws up tracking how much money is going where
18:10:41 <jroysdon> otherwise we go from a $200 grocery month to $2000, when the budget calls for $400
18:10:51 <dbr> now that the credit card folks offer rebates (and we pay off every month) I get receipts for more purchases than I used to from my wife.
18:11:31 <dbr> I at least look at all the receipts and split out things that are big enough to matter
18:11:38 <jroysdon> yeah, we do it all on CC. but I don't get the receipts regularly enough, and I can't tell what half the things are
18:12:17 <dbr> My wife compromised-- I get credit card receipts as long as I don't hassle her about cash expenses.
18:12:28 <jroysdon> problem with Costco is that many things are in the $20-40 range, and with a $200-300 total charge, it's a pain to find stuff that isn't groceries.
18:12:31 * jroysdon nods
18:13:52 <dbr> in PA that's easy - groceries are nontaxable, and they're flagged on the receipt
18:13:55 <jroysdon> I wonder how hard QIF imports are to format... hmmm
18:14:09 <jroysdon> Ah, I should check that as well (not sure if they are flagged though)
18:15:05 <dbr> I think there are a couple csv/spreadsheet to qif options
18:15:43 <dbr> as long as you/she always use the same order, should be a relatively simple hack
18:15:50 <jroysdon> ah, yes all my costco items that are non-food have a "T" next to them.. of course, "Ziplocks" are taxable, but fall under the grocery category.
18:16:21 <jroysdon> well, the AIM SMS budgetbot forces you to put it in the right order, so that'll be easy. I just have to save/export its log to the right format
18:17:15 <jroysdon> does the newer gnucash have csv import, or do you just mean that some folks have converters?
18:17:49 <dbr> some folks have converters, but aqbanking is adding csv, so it will be available sometime (soon?)
18:18:17 <dbr> for aqbanking, someone has to define the csv profile, and I haven't learned how to do that yet.
18:18:55 <dbr> aqbanking being the utility gnucash uses for direct banking connections, but it will be able to do other import tasks
18:18:55 <jroysdon> http://jon.thackray.org/hacks/csv2qif.perl.txt
18:19:44 <jroysdon> ah, I don't use any direct banking stuff... I don't know if my Credit Union supports it... they have QIF files though which I've imported a few times (pretty messy, easier to just do it manually at times).
18:20:12 <jroysdon> plus, I use a different web interface (not at my bank) to pay my bills (CheckFree) which then debits my checking
18:20:34 <jroysdon> but I used to use Quicken with BankAmerica to do all my billpays without having to go to the BofA website.
18:20:54 <jroysdon> (4 years ago, but then they started charging $12/mo for the "service")
18:20:54 <dbr> yeah. I just moved back to a commercial bank after a few decades a credit unions because of online banking
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18:21:45 <dbr> TD Banknorth has a really good deal (no ATM charges, even international) and an acceptable online banking arrangement
18:22:07 <jroysdon> I love CheckFree for bill pay. It lets you set to pay date and mails the check but won't let it clear until that date, but mails it with plenty of time, and at the same time doesn't lock up the funds until the pay date (actually when the person cashes the check if not an eft)
18:23:28 <jroysdon> I hated the way BankAmerica would make you pay 2 to 7 days ahead of time and lock up the funds 2 to 7 days ahead of time.
18:23:40 <dbr> Initially Checkfree had a totally unacceptable user agreement: "All problems are the user's fault, even if we cause them". They've gotten better lately, but I _really_ don't like Intuit. (new owners of Checkfree)
18:24:33 <jroysdon> I've not had any problems with them in ... 2 years now. But one thing I always do as well is make sure I give myself a 2 day grace before the due date "just in case"
18:24:54 <dbr> My credit union had the good type of online payments, but then I couldn't get decent transaction downloads.
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18:26:02 <jroysdon> Ah, that stinks. My credit union doesn't do anything themselves online, but has others host it all, but it all works great. statement downloads is at one website, and I believe the same one that I have to go to in order to view check images (can't recall the last time I had to do that though)
18:27:23 <dbr> as it happens, I don't like QIF because it doesn't have unique transaction IDs, making duplicate detection more laborious.
18:29:44 <jroysdon> ah, what about ofx? would that be better to use?
18:29:53 <dbr> IMO, absolutely
18:31:06 <jroysdon> I can generate a unique transaction ID based on the sms account that sent it, date, and time, I think.
18:32:27 <dbr> There is one 'create an ofx file' utility around, too, but that one recreates the ID everytime it runs. (not good) You could use it as a model for creating the necessary file header, though.
18:33:47 <dbr> since you will probably segment your downloads yourself, you might get away with qif, since duplicates will be easy to avoid on the front end...
18:34:18 <jroysdon> bah, I think I'm stuck with qif for imports from my bank... it has either qif or csv, but the csv doesn't contain any unique ids, nor the time (just date). But I can at least get ofx/unique ID info from my sms logs.
18:35:13 <dbr> does your bank allow qif downloads of transactions 'since last statement'?
18:35:43 <dbr> If you're willing to wait for the month boundary, then unique ID's are less an issue again
18:36:18 <jroysdon> I don't think so. The statements are at one website, and the "live" view is at their own website.
18:36:29 <jroysdon> I'm looking now.
18:37:01 <dbr> qif might be enough. I really want to download about weekly, though, so ofx is helpful
18:37:58 <jroysdon> ah. I don't plan to rely on the bank/CC companies to keep it up to date. We use about 6 different CC sites which would make it a pain to log in and download at each.
18:38:14 <jroysdon> (Which is one reason I really want the sms stuff so I get it all in one spot)
18:39:05 <jroysdon> does gnucash and/or Chase, BankAmerica, Citibank, and American Express have a "live" way to get account info?
18:39:10 <dbr> My experience is that at least the big cc sites allow ofx downloads free - then I just use ofxdirectconnect from the gnucash register
18:39:18 <jroysdon> I know BankAmerica does, but that might be with a fee, and so did/does AMEX.
18:39:33 <dbr> citibank is free for credit cards, as is Chase
18:39:39 <jroysdon> Right, but you have to go to the website and login and download it.. .bah
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18:40:00 <jroysdon> I want a way to just say "check for updates" which BankAmerica and AMEX had with Quicken
18:40:08 <dbr> nope - use ofxdirectconnect in gnucash. Gotta type in your pin, but that's it
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18:40:18 <jroysdon> (if I'm going to do it that way, which I don't like because of the delay some vendors have with processing CC transactions)
18:40:26 <jroysdon> dbr - oh, really?
18:40:36 <jroysdon> man, I gotta get that set up, heh.
18:40:38 <dbr> with gnucash 2.0.x anywya
18:40:46 <jroysdon> ah, one more reason to upgrade.
18:41:24 <dbr> you can even have gnucash remember your pin, but that's not so secure :)
18:41:53 <jroysdon> I don't have a problem with it. without me, my laptop hdd is useless and is rsync-over-ssh backed up nightly to a remote site.
18:42:27 <jroysdon> in gnucash 2.x, where is that option?
18:43:33 <dbr> in 2.0.x I think it's still labelled as HCBI setup (Tools/HCBI setup) in trunk, it has changed to Tools/Online Banking setup
18:43:49 <jroysdon> ah, but you don't think 1.8 supports it?
18:43:56 <dbr> you do have to dig a little for the ofx server addresses
18:43:57 <jroysdon> (I have HCBI setup in 1.8)
18:44:22 <dbr> 1.8 doesn't have a recent enough aqbanking (usually) to get it to work in my experience.
18:44:47 <dbr> but I've been using 1.99 and 2.x for over a year, so my 1.8 recollections are really old.
18:44:49 <jroysdon> ah, yeah, in AqHBCI there is an OFX-DirectConnect
18:44:53 * jroysdon nods
18:45:02 <dbr> gotta go - dinner time
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18:45:23 * jroysdon waves
18:45:26 <jroysdon> thanks
18:51:33 <jroysdon> Hmm, trying to setup and OFX-DirectConnect. Is the "bank code" a pin?
18:52:13 <jroysdon> I'm trying to set up my AMEX account... it found bank name: American Express Card and has the url...
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19:21:14 <dbr> bank code is the ABN (for checking/savings) it usually doesn't matter for credit cards
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22:37:52 <dbr> What's the minimum version of libglade acceptable for 2.0.x? Looking at configure.in, I can't tell if it's 2.3.6 or 2.4
22:46:41 <hampton> 2.4. The 2.3.6 test is in a block of tests that was pulled in with some goffice stuff.
22:52:54 <dbr> thanks
22:53:03 <hampton> np
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