2007-03-09 GnuCash IRC logs

00:03:47 <hampton> http://deadspin.com/sports/clips/soon-americans-will-lack-the-need-to-move-240329.php
00:06:08 <jsled> ugh. Miller Light?
00:07:25 <jsled> lol. awesome.
00:14:10 <jsled> Hmmm. I think I just rediscovered why I like -bl ...
00:15:22 <jsled> It's the case like [[[
00:15:22 <jsled> if (!g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:15:22 <jsled> || (g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:15:22 <jsled> && g_date_compare(*last_occur_date, &inst->date) <= 0)) {
00:15:23 <jsled> *last_occur_date = &inst->date;
00:15:25 <jsled> }
00:15:27 <jsled> ]]]
00:16:00 <jsled> Where the block of the if clause gets visually lost amongst the line-broken conditionals...
00:16:25 <jsled> vs ... [[[
00:16:25 <jsled> if (!g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:16:25 <jsled> || (g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:16:25 <jsled> && g_date_compare(*last_occur_date, &inst->date) <= 0))
00:16:25 <jsled> {
00:16:26 <jsled> *last_occur_date = &inst->date;
00:16:28 <jsled> }
00:16:30 <jsled> ]]]
00:17:10 <jsled> Where the otherwise oddly placed '{' serves an important function in deliniating the if () from the {}
00:21:19 <hampton> hmmm
00:33:33 <hampton> I can see how that would be helpful, but how frequently does that occur?
00:34:13 <hampton> Its the [[[
00:34:14 <hampton> }
00:34:16 <hampton> else
00:34:17 <hampton> {
00:34:19 <hampton> ]]]
00:34:32 <hampton> that really annoys me
00:34:39 <jsled> Yeah.
00:34:56 <jsled> It happens a fair amount, especially in conjunction with the 80-char width.
00:35:23 <jsled> Because both {if (} and {for (} are very close to -i4....
00:35:43 <jsled> And for ( ; ; ) are going to get line-broken a lot.
00:36:19 <jsled> e.g. [[[
00:36:21 <jsled> if (!g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:36:22 <jsled> || (g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:36:22 <jsled> && g_date_compare(*last_occur_date, &inst->date) <= 0))
00:36:22 <jsled> {
00:36:22 <jsled> *last_occur_date = &inst->date;
00:36:24 <jsled> }
00:36:26 <jsled> ]]]
00:36:28 <jsled> Gr...
00:36:30 <jsled> [[[
00:36:40 <jsled> for (sx_list_iter = model->sx_instance_list; sx_list_iter != NULL;
00:36:40 <jsled> sx_list_iter = sx_list_iter->next) {
00:36:40 <jsled> GncSxInstances *instances = (GncSxInstances *) sx_list_iter->data;
00:36:40 <jsled> gnc_sx_instances_free(instances);
00:36:40 <jsled> }
00:36:42 <jsled> ]]]
00:37:42 <jsled> I mean, it's hard to be more concise about the list iteration, there...
00:38:08 <hampton> you can always fix those with [[[
00:38:10 <hampton> test = (!g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:38:10 <hampton> || (g_date_valid(*last_occur_date)
00:38:10 <hampton> && g_date_compare(*last_occur_date, &inst->date) <= 0));
00:38:10 <hampton> if (test)
00:38:10 <hampton> {
00:38:11 <hampton> *last_occur_date = &inst->date;
00:38:13 <hampton> }
00:38:15 <hampton> ]]]
00:38:25 <jsled> with -br, even. ;)
00:38:26 <hampton> yeah, its the long way around.
00:39:13 <hampton> g_list_foreach(model->sx_instance_list, gnc_sx_instances_free)
00:39:29 <jsled> Wel.... ;p
00:40:01 <jsled> So I grabbed the wrong example... :)
00:40:09 <hampton> :-)
00:40:38 <hampton> I think that's it for me tonight. Night all.
00:40:45 *** hampton is now known as hampton|away
00:40:48 <jsled> yeah. g'night. Thanks for the post!
00:40:49 *** hampton|away sets mode: +oo benoitg conrad
00:40:52 <hampton|away> np
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10:57:45 <MrN> hi
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11:05:54 <Avochelm> Hey, what's the best type of account to put in for gambling? I'm thinking something that can go in the negative. Assets?
11:06:05 <Avochelm> I'm -$20 at the moment :(
11:06:49 <jsled> All accounts can range both positive and negative ... it's more important, well, what type of account it is. :)
11:07:35 <jsled> So, what, you transfer funds into this "account" on the gambling site, then it goes up or down as a function of winning/losing?
11:07:49 <Avochelm> yes
11:08:00 <jsled> Sounds like an Asset account.
11:08:02 <Avochelm> i guess it would be an asset or maybe a liability.
11:08:09 <Avochelm> cool.
11:08:30 <Avochelm> I need accounts for all my bad habits :)
11:09:41 <Avochelm> I reckon if I do an account for each type of game, I can work out which I lose most at!
11:12:14 <warlord> heh
11:15:16 <Avochelm> Hey, this really doesn't work. I think I need two accounts. A gambling income and a gambling expense.
11:17:08 <warlord> you probably need all three
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13:21:23 <jsled> I don't understand Perry's repeated invocations about people set in their ways.
13:21:41 <jsled> But who knew that Perry Metzger was lurking on -devel...?
13:21:44 <warlord> Perry is very set in his ways and projects himself on others.
13:21:57 <andi5> I: the goffice and libgsf parts make 700 lines of 2259 of configure.in :)
13:22:14 <jsled> :(
13:22:20 <warlord> On the gripping hand, *I* use 80-char-wide windows (including emacs), and my emacs wraps.. So I do kinda agree with him.
13:23:05 <andi5> jsled: i tend to wrap after an opening parenthesis.... like what = g_long_long_long(
13:23:12 <andi5> param_t param1, ...)
13:23:43 <jsled> andi5: I often wrap there, as well.
13:24:42 <jsled> But I'm tired of seeing code(that's,
13:24:42 <jsled> all,
13:24:42 <jsled> scrunched,
13:24:42 <jsled> up, because, ...
13:24:46 <jsled> of some silly limit.
13:25:14 <warlord> Well, 4 space indents should help some.
13:25:48 <andi5> 2 would even more, but i guess we kind of agreed on 4 now :)
13:26:02 <warlord> Well, 4 spaces is better than 8
13:28:21 <cortana> with tabs, you can pick your favourite indentation width...
13:28:27 <cortana> <g>
13:28:48 <andi5> no tabs, please....
13:32:27 <warlord> I still think we should add the proper emacs-variable config settings to each file ;)
13:32:49 <andi5> why not?
13:33:06 <andi5> is it possible to redirect emacs to a "style file"?
13:33:07 <jsled> Probably ... certainly once we come to agreement, we can figure out what the right settings are ... at least to use them while editing, if not inscribed into the files.
13:34:26 <warlord> I suppose we could have a gnucash-c-mode.el in the source tree
13:35:12 <andi5> that is minor mode, is not it?
13:35:21 <warlord> Not sure.
13:35:30 <warlord> I'm far from an elisp guru
13:35:56 <jsled> but ... didn't you go to MIT?!? ;)
13:36:18 <andi5> probably you MITlers hate elisp ;-)
13:39:40 <warlord> Nah, I've got plenty of friends who are happy elisp hackers. Just not me.
13:39:58 <andi5> Q1: do we (want to) use AS_SCRUB_INCLUDE for all cflags and libs we check for and substitute?
13:40:03 <andi5> Q2: why not make it less noisy?
13:41:40 <andi5> ok... Q2 is obsolete now
13:46:21 <jsled> warlord: fwiw, I like 80 columns. formatting for 80 columns is good. I just think there are times where 81 or 90 or even 100 column-long lines are better.
13:46:49 <jsled> Maybe it'd be interesting to reformat that file at 80,85,90,95 columns to see where most of the wrappings fall out.
13:49:04 <warlord> I think we should aim for 80 chars.. But allow exceptions.
13:51:02 <andi5> FWIW, i love (require 'column-marker) (column-marker-1 81)
13:51:35 <jsled> ooh...
13:53:09 <jsled> Hmm. not present on my 21.4 install ...
13:53:37 <andi5> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/column-marker.el
13:53:50 <jsled> indeed.
13:57:29 <hampton> interesting
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14:25:41 * andi5 is testing the robustness of git-svn... lemme see...
14:28:12 <andi5> seems like it sucks
14:28:36 <warlord> oh?
14:29:00 <andi5> it did not remove the empty directories
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14:31:44 <warlord> yeah, i just got a 13MB -changes email from you
14:32:10 <andi5> hm.... would that be different if i used svn?
14:35:00 <warlord> i dont know..
14:35:10 <andi5> well, the files have been deleted correctly, not just emptied... so i guess the log would have contained their contents anyway, ... that is what i think
14:36:41 <warlord> yes.. it shows diffs of adds/deletes
14:42:01 <andi5> warlord: can you accept the mail with modified contents?
14:43:40 <warlord> no
14:43:44 * andi5 should better test git-svn locally before doing such adventures...
14:43:53 <andi5> hmpf
14:44:50 <jsled> So it lists the content of all the removed files with '-'s in front of the lines?
14:45:50 <warlord> jsled: yeah
14:45:57 <jsled> hee hee.
14:46:12 <andi5> i am sorry :(
14:48:10 <warlord> andi5: no worries.
14:48:16 <warlord> This is what... removing goffice/gsf?
14:48:32 <andi5> yep
14:50:00 <warlord> ok
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14:58:14 <hampton> quick. kill the process mailing that to the world. ;-)
14:59:04 <jsled> Totally going to overflow the internets.
14:59:14 <warlord> It's not mailing it to the world. It's in the -changes mod queue
14:59:54 <andi5> warlord: you might want to append your favorite dvd rip and send it then ;-)
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15:02:37 <warlord> hehe
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16:22:21 <foo> Retained earnings would be the money I withdraw from the businessm right?
16:22:29 <foo> business, *
16:46:59 <warlord> foo: no. retained earnings are the Income - Expense retained at the end of the year.
16:47:29 <foo> hm, like net
16:47:31 <foo> worth
16:47:32 <foo> Right?
16:51:32 <warlord> not quite. Net Worth is Assets and Liabilities.
16:51:40 <foo> ohh, I see
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16:53:23 <foo> warlord: hm, basically.. my accountant told me to put my withdraws that I take out of the checking account somewhere.. but for it not to be deducted as an expense. What would be the best way to do that?
16:54:01 <warlord> Equity:Capital Withdrawal?
16:56:14 <foo> Hm, err, I really need to learn my lingo.
16:56:15 <foo> Thanks warlord
16:58:58 <warlord> NP
17:06:54 <foo> How would you define capital in that context?
17:10:54 <warlord> Is there more than one way to define Capital?
17:11:51 <foo> Ok, so... is it fair to say that capital is any liquid medium or mechanism that represents wealth
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17:14:39 <warlord> maybe..
17:16:44 <foo> Excuse me, I'm still learning this stuff. I'll probably eventually get to this in college in a year or two, but I'm need of knowing at this point in time.
17:16:54 <foo> I was looking at the wikipedia article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_capital
17:18:28 <warlord> Well, what I mean is that yes, that's an okay definition, and it MAY cover that. But that definition is a bit too general.. So.. Maybe.
17:19:28 <foo> ah, I see
17:19:57 <hampton> foo: can I ask how old you are?
17:20:32 <hampton> Its not often I see "eventually get to this in college in a year or two"
17:20:34 <foo> hampton: Definitely, 19
17:21:00 <foo> I'm still doing general ed... last semester, then I transfer to Cal State Fullerton where I get a BA in Business
17:21:21 <jsled> Investopedia seems pretty good for definitional stuff, too
17:21:50 <foo> jsled: thanks, I'll have to check that out
17:22:06 <foo> oh, nice
17:23:48 <foo> Hm, I have 3 transactions in retained earnings.. anyway to move those all to a new account under equity I just made?
17:25:35 <andi5> hampton: you are going to do the gtkprint conversion, right? .... can i commit http://pastebin.ca/raw/388185 or does that conflict with your work somehow?
17:25:48 <andi5> meanwhile i have found a bug in goffice, yeehaw... :(
17:25:56 <foo> hehe
17:26:10 <andi5> does anybody build from build dirs? ;-)
17:26:19 <jsled> oh, nice re: 388185.
17:26:50 <jsled> (build from build dirs?)
17:27:24 <hampton> I always build from build dirs. I don't run from then though. ;-)
17:27:25 <warlord> andi5: "make distcheck" does
17:28:53 <andi5> well, i was just a bit frustrated.... well, we overwrite the incorrect dummy file anyway, right?.... oh no, we do not? well, then you will not have plots, but... who needs plot...
17:30:22 <foo> Hm, no way to move these transactions from one register to another, right? I'll just remake them, no worries
17:30:34 <jsled> Sure there is, just change the transfer account.
17:31:01 <jsled> You might need to change to auto-split or transaction-journal view to do so.
17:31:33 <foo> aha! I knew it, /me tries
17:31:40 <andi5> tada... plots are back...
17:32:25 <foo> jsled: Thanks!
17:32:42 <andi5> jsled: what is wrong with 388185?
17:33:30 <jsled> andi5: is this a test? :) I only skimmed it...
17:33:55 <jsled> andi5: It's good; I'd thought about adapting that patch last night, but did not. It's good to see it getting done.
17:34:00 <andi5> it is a duplicate bug in yelp...
17:34:26 <foo> warlord: hm, ok, I have capital withdrawal now... but it's in the negative, because I need a starting balance. Hm, anyway the starting balance could just be the total assets? I'm pretty sure that's what it would be. I'm just withdrawing from the checking account, really... that's part of an asset. Or maybe it should be the total checking account. hmm.
17:36:32 <hampton> andi5: No conflict. I'm only working with the check printing code.
17:36:49 <andi5> great
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18:40:01 <steven> hi
18:40:27 <jsled> hello
18:40:33 <steven> Is thier anyway to import/export the business information such as invoices and bills ?
18:41:51 <steven> If not can i request this as a feature ;)
18:41:56 <jsled> import: no. I believe there's an "export to QSF" option.
18:42:07 <jsled> Also, you could transform the datafile if you're inclined.
18:42:52 <steven> jsled, what do you mean transform? just perform my edits on the data from an external program ?
18:43:59 <jsled> Not really. I don't recommend that.
18:44:07 <steven> I run a small company, im currently evaluating Gnucash, at the mo we use vTiger for CRM and basic invoicing, it would be nice if i could tie the 2 together
18:44:08 <jsled> I was thinking more transforming it as export.
18:44:19 <jsled> Yeah, there's not really a good way to do that right now.
18:44:59 <steven> It's a shame because gnucash really fills the accounting gap left by the decent Open Source CRM systems out there
18:46:29 <steven> I read somewhere an SQL backend was planned? are there any plans / timescales for this. This would surley make it easier for me to tie vTiger into gnucash?
18:48:12 <jsled> It's at least a year off, I'd bet longer.
18:48:24 <jsled> I've never thought that an application
18:48:41 <jsled> 's database is a good integration surface, but it probably would make it a bit easier.
18:50:35 <foo> steven: I use SugarCRM for CRM related stuff. I can't tie the two together. Welcome to open source :) Not saying it's bad, but it is what it is. gnucash (in my recent months of playing with it) is awesome... and for the little inconvenience of readding clients to gnucash to bill, it's not too bad.
18:52:02 <steven> with an SQL database backend it would be possible to add a simple web services front end i suppose which would be a nice feature
18:52:22 <aphexer> i agree, i'm looking forward for such a feature too :)
18:52:34 <jsled> That is possible now.
18:52:41 <aphexer> how?
18:52:53 <jsled> Well, it is as possible now as it is with any other backend.
18:53:07 <foo> eg. you don't need an sql backend for a web interface frontend..
18:53:16 <jsled> Such an interface would want to bind to the gnucash application, not the a particular data store.
18:53:17 <foo> (I think that's what he is saying)
18:53:21 <jsled> right.
18:53:44 <jsled> There are application constraints and logic that are required. A DB schema simply does not express everything.
18:53:57 * foo nods
18:53:57 <steven> jsled how would the webservice bind the the application ?
18:54:30 <aphexer> parsing the xml file i think he means
18:54:36 <jsled> No.
18:54:37 <steven> gnucash would still need modding some how to expose it's api ?
18:55:05 <jsled> If written in C, the app could just link against the existing libraries/code. If written in something else, the swig bindings are the best option.
18:55:26 <jsled> We have that exposure; various parts of the desktop app, and especially the reports, work that way.
18:56:01 <steven> hmm id love to get stuck and play around with the code, i'll have to see if i can free up some more time in my schedule
18:56:18 <jsled> They're not fully and formally exposed ... e.g., we don't install header files or specially create the binding libraries to be trivially imported into (say) a python script, but 90% of the work is there.
18:57:27 <jsled> For a while we had an XML-RPC server that one could start with like gnucash --rpc-server or something. Something similar could start up an http server instead of the GUI app. Or a separate program.
18:57:42 <aphexer> jsled, so if i understand correctly, it is quite easy to get a list of invoices for a particular customer, check the balance of the accounts, etc from a simple C app?
18:58:18 <jsled> relatively, yes. At the end of the day, it all boils down to understanding the API, of course...
18:58:39 <steven> i think extending to the point where you could interface with gnucash easily with webservices would be a cool feature
18:58:40 <aphexer> well yeah of course :) first understand the api :) hm might take a look at doing such a thing once
18:58:40 <jsled> But for the examples you just gave, it'd be something on the order of ... (/me scribbles)
18:59:43 <steven> there are so many open source apps such as CRM that only touch on accounting rather poorly, having an app like gnucash to offload the functionality too would surely be a big benefit
19:00:13 <jsled> Something on the order of [[[
19:00:13 <jsled> gnc_engine_init();
19:00:13 <jsled> backend_load(argv[1]);
19:00:13 <jsled> Account *acc = xaccAccountGetByPath(argv[2]);
19:00:13 <jsled> printf("Balance for [%s]: %d\n", argv[2], xaccAccountGetBalance(acc));
19:00:14 <jsled> ]]]
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19:00:50 <jsled> (of course, balance actaully returns a gnc_numeric, which would need to be string-ified, but you get the idea)
19:02:00 <jsled> steven: I agree. I think something that accepted an HTTP {POST /invoice <gnc:invoice>...</>} would solve a lot of integration problems people have.
19:02:14 <jsled> And aren't too hard.
19:03:02 <steven> i like the idea of XML-RPC, something that you can use to talk to the running gnucash application, rather than using the api to read the data files.
19:03:03 <jsled> Of course, something like `gnucash /path/to/file.gnc --import-invoice /path/to/invoice.xml` would work too.
19:03:35 <MrN> wouldn't this take some 15 seconds?
19:04:01 <jsled> What's, like that last option?
19:04:14 <steven> well i would love that functionality maybe if i get time ill take a look at this
19:04:20 <MrN> jsled: no the whole thing
19:04:35 <jsled> MrN: I don't understand.
19:04:53 <steven> 15 seconds to implement ?
19:04:54 <MrN> when i load gnucash, i must wait
19:05:03 <MrN> when i save a gnucash file, i must wait
19:05:14 <jsled> Doing something like --import-invoice would take a good (part-time) week, depending. New stand-alone XML format ... parser for that... error-handling...
19:05:15 <MrN> doesn't that apply here?
19:05:30 <MrN> i mean runtime
19:05:33 <jsled> Oh. Well, a lot of that time is in loading all the modules. The reports module is a big part of that.
19:05:48 <MrN> *sigh*
19:05:53 <jsled> And presumably one would only load the engine, file-backend and business modules, here.
19:06:02 <jsled> Spining up the GUI takes a fair bit of time.
19:06:14 <MrN> could one disable the xml compression?
19:06:26 <jsled> But, yeah, there's a lot of indirection in the gnucash codebase; some of it's justified, some of it's not.
19:06:33 <MrN> which is fairly pointless :D
19:06:37 <jsled> Sure; I can't believe that's even 1% of the runtime, thought.
19:06:51 <jsled> though, even ...
19:07:09 <jsled> But, yeah, that's in Edit > Preferences...
19:07:22 <steven> jsled you say modules? is there some kind of plugability in gnucash already ?
19:08:13 <jsled> There's modularity; plugability ... to some degree. There's no bit of the UI where you can point it at a plugin in a directory and have it load.
19:08:21 <jsled> (a-la xchat or evolution or mozilla)
19:08:32 <jsled> There was a good -devel thread about it, recently ... just a sec.
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19:09:19 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-February/019922.html
19:09:35 <steven> jsled, thanks
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19:22:56 <MrN> n8
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19:25:21 <warlord> jsled: for the record, it wasn't an XML-RPC backend, it was XDR-based.
19:26:04 <jsled> warlord: Ah, thanks. I had originally just written RPC, then edited it for some reason.
19:26:45 <warlord> NP
19:33:24 <warlord> (I know this becuse I wrote it) ;)
19:35:04 <jsled> ah. heh
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20:24:41 <warlord> BIAB
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21:28:39 <jsled> Neat. <http://gamevideos.com/video/id/9860>. If you like the in-page flash, note the hi-rez .mov download (326MiB) to the right...
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22:08:22 <chris> jsled: that looks like a lot of fun.
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23:20:01 <tuxrules> Hi folks...I'm trying to use gnucash on slackware 11 with dropline gnome 2.16
23:20:18 <tuxrules> gnucash crashes as soon as it starts
23:21:05 <tuxrules> i just filed a bug report...#416679. Can anybody tell me what the cause is?
23:21:42 <tuxrules> i'm using gnucash version 2.0.5, gwrap 1.3.4, guile 1.6.8, libofx 0.8.3
23:22:17 <jsled> No. What's printed to the console?
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23:26:22 <tuxrules> it reports one ERROR in file gnc-main-window.c line 2656...assertion failed
23:27:06 <tuxrules> that last line is "/usr/bin/gnucash": not in executable format: File format not recognized
23:27:25 <jsled> That's a bit of a red herring, from bug-buddy.
23:27:26 <tuxrules> i've checked the gnucash binary and its chmod 755
23:28:47 <tuxrules> hmm...the problem is I'm very new to programming so I wouldn't know too many nuances
23:30:40 <jsled> aye...
23:31:08 <tuxrules> Can you look at the bug report...may be I am not explaining this as one should
23:31:10 <jsled> line 2656, you say...
23:31:27 <jsled> I have; it's not useful given the lack of detail on the stack trace.
23:31:49 <jsled> That single summarized line of console output is more useful.
23:32:48 <tuxrules> thanks...the Error i got on console says
23:33:43 <tuxrules> ERROR: file gnc-main-window.c: line 2656 (gnc_main_window_setup_window):assertion failed: (filename) aborting...
23:34:54 <jsled> Uh ... that line isn't an assertion...
23:35:33 * jsled looks some more.
23:37:53 <tuxrules> Okay thanks! I will look into generating a detail stack trace.
23:37:55 <jsled> Nope, you're not running 2.0.5.
23:38:09 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/tags/2.0.5/src/gnome-utils/gnc-main-window.c#L2656
23:38:28 <jsled> You're building it from source?
23:41:49 <tuxrules> okay sorry my bad...I had built 2.0.3 and 2.0.5 yesterday. Since 2.0.5 was also crashing, I build 2.0.3 yesterday and had it installed
23:42:02 <tuxrules> i've just uninstalled 2.0.3 and installed 2.0.5
23:42:20 <jsled> Ah. So, how are you configuring them? ./configure [...?]
23:42:28 <tuxrules> yes
23:43:04 <jsled> I mean, what options?
23:43:21 <tuxrules> now that i've installed 2.0.5 and invoked from command line...it gives me the same exact error message but now the line number is 2725
23:45:38 <tuxrules> ./configure --prefix=/usr --exec-prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --enable-shared --enable-static --enable-libofx --enable-hbci --program-suffix="" --program-prefix="" --build=i486-slackware-linux
23:47:10 <tuxrules> i've also built and installed libofx, aqbanking and its deps successfully
23:48:09 <jsled> What does `ls -l /usr/share/gnucash/ui/gnc-main-window-ui.xml` report?
23:52:18 <tuxrules> hmm...i don't have that file
23:52:30 <jsled> Which is why the assertion is failing.
23:52:47 <jsled> I believe your install didn't actually succeed.
23:53:00 <jsled> Gah.... why are you using slackware?
23:53:24 <tuxrules> I love it...LOL
23:54:15 <tuxrules> when i did make...it actually did run successfully hence I had no idea the install was actually faulty
23:54:35 <tuxrules> thanks for helping me out...I really appreciate it.
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