2007-03-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:58:35 <jsled> Hmm. How to get the "Quit Gnucash?" dialog?
10:02:46 <warlord> create a new transaction then hit C-q
10:02:52 <warlord> (dirty the book)
10:03:09 <jsled> I get the "quit without saving" dialog, but not the "Quit Gnucash?" dialog.
10:04:04 <warlord> Huh..
10:04:22 <warlord> Maybe use the window manager kill button?
10:04:29 <jsled> Nope.
10:05:04 <jsled> I tried, keyboard, menu and wm... I know I've seen it before! :)
10:05:12 <jsled> This is all re <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=415399>
10:06:48 <warlord> Maybe it was fixed since 2.0.1?
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10:07:19 <jsled> Hmm. Maybe. I thought I've seen that dialog more recently.
10:07:49 <BlackBsd> hi if i contribute to my company 401K, would that be considered an asset or Equity?
10:07:54 <warlord> I don't see "Quit Gnucash" anywhere in the sources.
10:08:21 <warlord> Asset
10:08:47 <BlackBsd> thank you
10:10:15 <BlackBsd> IRA would also be an asset?
10:10:24 <BlackBsd> as opposed to equity
10:10:35 <jsled> yes. Have you read the tutorial and concepts guide?
10:10:48 <BlackBsd> yes, i have read alot of it
10:11:09 <BlackBsd> im just working throug the steps.
10:11:43 <BlackBsd> but not the entire thing
10:15:16 <BlackBsd> is their any ways to drag a register line to be above another?
10:15:39 <warlord> An Asset is "something you own, where you could convert it to cash". A Liability is "something you borrowed, where you need to pay someone else"
10:15:47 <warlord> Equity is just a balance of the two.
10:15:58 <warlord> no.
10:16:07 <warlord> BlackBsd: well, yes.. Change the date.
10:16:33 <BlackBsd> for same date items, does it go in alphabetical order
10:17:19 <BlackBsd> i was doing my split transaction with my pay check
10:18:05 <warlord> PLease check the archives.. I've discussed this before and don't have the time right now to go look in the code. IIRC it's something like: Date, CheckNum, Date Entered, ...
10:18:11 <warlord> (but you cannot control "date entered")
10:18:18 <warlord> well.. you CAN, but you can't CHANGE it.
10:18:25 <warlord> (through the UI)
10:22:17 <BlackBsd> so a checking account can be either an asset or a bank type?
10:23:16 <warlord> Yes. A "BANK" type is a subtype of Asset. As is Cash, Stock, Money Market, ...
10:23:55 <BlackBsd> thanks
10:24:30 <warlord> Generally you should use the most appropriate account type.
10:28:37 <hampton> I though I removed the "Quit Gnucash" dialog in response to a user bug report and discussion either here or on email. It was deemed no longer necessary since the "saved changed file" dialog was implemented.
10:29:31 <jsled> hampton: Ah. So that bug could be INVALID, now? Do you want to do the honors?
10:29:53 <hampton> sure. means I have to find the older bug report. :-)
10:32:01 <warlord> Check ChangeLog for BugID?
10:32:35 <hampton> jsled: can you double check that bug number
10:32:51 <jsled> hampton: I don't understand.
10:33:22 <hampton> 415399 is a window manager bug
10:33:36 <hampton> never mind. I should read the text
10:33:44 <jsled> Heh. :)
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10:41:34 <hampton> done. marked obsolete.
10:42:50 <warlord> yay
10:48:56 <BlackBsd> when i set an opening ballance for my visa card, i have to put the beginning ballance in the Rebate column?
10:49:16 <BlackBsd> and the transfer column is my equity opening balance.
10:50:31 <warlord> BlackBsd: it depends on whether you have a positive or negative balance.
10:51:01 <BlackBsd> i do have a balance on my credit card
10:51:19 <BlackBsd> so i guess the balance is positive which causes my equity to be negative
10:51:23 <warlord> Then the opening balance would be a Charge, and the transfer account would be Equity
10:51:53 <BlackBsd> i dont have a charge column, i have Expense and Rebate
10:52:05 <warlord> Then you dont have a Credit Card account
10:52:12 <BlackBsd> o
10:52:42 <warlord> Check the account type and then re-open the register
10:53:46 <BlackBsd> again, thanks for some reason it was of type expense as opposed to credit card
10:53:48 <BlackBsd> i changed it
10:55:08 <warlord> Yep.
10:56:36 <jsled> BlackBsd: You might find the {File > New > New Account Hierarchy} to be handy...
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12:16:28 <MrN> hi
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14:21:39 <andi5> warlord: ping
14:34:55 <warlord> andi5: pong?
14:36:14 <andi5> warlord: hiho.... do you have any idea whether anyone uses lib/libc/scm_strptime.c ? ... i think i have read something about it giving strptime to guile on macos, but i cannot see where it is plugged in
14:36:43 <warlord> I dont know offhand.. hold on.
14:40:38 <warlord> andi5: according to the Makefile:
14:40:43 <warlord> # Not currently used. If added to AC_REPLACE_FUNCS then this line
14:40:43 <warlord> # should be removed.
14:40:43 <warlord> EXTRA_DIST = scm_strptime.c
14:40:49 <warlord> Why do you ask?
14:41:51 <andi5> well, i saw it, thought a bit about using it on windows, but finally got the idea that it could (should?) be removed
14:46:18 <andi5> another thing i would like to moan about is strftime (again).... i think on all platforms it returns a string in the locale encoding (windows might be even more complicated, cannot remember right now), but we treat these strings as UTF-8.... do we need a wrapper somehow/somewhere?
14:47:46 <hampton> Use g_date_strftime?
14:47:58 <andi5> for times?...
14:48:22 <andi5> well, one could argue that times are all the same, just numbers, but well
14:49:26 <andi5> in germany it is März right now and the register just does not show it right.... g_date_strftime will not help because we print date _and_ time
14:50:19 <andi5> (besides gtk has a buggy g_date_strftime anyway ;-) i think it will be fixed in 2.10.10)
14:51:27 <hampton> we don't currently ever print the time., except I think for one hack Neil put into dof.
14:51:47 <hampton> Oops. Lets bump the required gtk version to 2.10.10. ;-)
14:51:59 <andi5> oops... you are right...
14:52:21 <hampton> its a requested feature... but it not currently supported.
14:53:31 <andi5> dof == qof?
14:53:35 <BlackBsd> is there any other examples on setting up a budget besides the concepts guide? or a walk through?
14:53:48 <hampton> yes, qof
14:54:43 <andi5> ok, i will try to convert everything to g_date_strftime then... there is some function in libqof that uses this function, so there are alternatives.... will report back later this week
14:55:47 <hampton> should we think about eventually including time values?
14:56:11 <hampton> BlackBsd: I don't know. chris?
14:56:48 <andi5> hampton: well, tell gncbot to point me to a bug and i will take a look at it.... see you
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14:57:24 <BlackBsd> when making a budget, when i enter "the amounts that you expect the account balances to change", would i enter negitive values in some colums?
14:57:52 <BlackBsd> say i pay my credit card once a month, would the value entered into the buget be -100
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15:08:30 <chris> BlackBsd: I think that's right. IIRC, it does respect your preference setting regarding sign reversal of certain accounts, though.
15:20:43 <BlackBsd> but if i have a car insurance bill under expenses then that value will increase...
15:20:54 <BlackBsd> i think im understanding it better.
15:23:33 <chris> BlackBsd: yep.
15:24:13 <BlackBsd> thanks
15:24:17 <chris> np
15:24:27 <BlackBsd> some things are still confusing but...
15:24:29 <BlackBsd> it works
15:24:52 <chris> pretty much.
15:33:20 <jsled> http://alienghic.livejournal.com/tag/gnucash
15:37:00 <BlackBsd> what does gnucash have anythign to do with mono?
15:37:05 <BlackBsd> i thought it was gtk2
15:37:13 <BlackBsd> isnt mono like .net
15:37:14 <chris> hmm, that seems like the hard way to do things.
15:37:25 <BlackBsd> or sorta like a vm
15:37:26 <jsled> Yeah. She's ambitious.
15:38:05 <jsled> Mono is an open implmentation of .net, the clr, compiler and libraries.
15:40:05 <dbr-afk> yeah. drop back to g-wrap 1.3.4 and she could skip mono.
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15:43:33 <warlord> I just added a comment.
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16:01:08 <BlackBsd> how do i name a budget
16:03:11 <chris> BlackBsd: under budget options
16:03:37 <BlackBsd> can i expand the size of the colums when vewing a budget report?
16:04:05 <BlackBsd> my row titles are on the left side and they need more space to display
16:09:14 <chris> BlackBsd: if you save to html, there are no column widths specifed, right?
16:10:11 <BlackBsd> i have only selected Reports->Income & Expenses -> budget report
16:10:28 <BlackBsd> I have a string that has a space in it "Credit Cards"
16:10:37 <BlackBsd> this string is being wrapped
16:11:21 <BlackBsd> the far left colums is the main level titles?
16:11:27 <chris> I think this is basically default gtkhtml behavior, which is known to be pretty poor.
16:11:50 <BlackBsd> is there a specific size of char's that will display here before wrapping?
16:12:05 <BlackBsd> o
16:12:08 <BlackBsd> thanks
16:12:08 <jsled> I wonder if it supports &nbsp; that's been around in html for a while.
16:13:05 <BlackBsd> actually i have the same issue with the second column also
16:13:09 <chris> [OT] is there an automake target that leaves the preprocessor output around for viewing?
16:16:30 <hampton> lovely. another someone hacking on gnucash without communicating with us
16:17:53 <warlord> hampton: yeah..
16:18:22 <chris> actually, isn't this is same guy?
16:18:38 <BlackBsd> i thought it was a girl
16:18:39 <hampton> you know that when it breaks or someone screws up their data file they're going to come to us. :-(
16:19:09 <chris> BlackBsd: topic jump from -devel mail.
16:19:31 <BlackBsd> i have to admit, this is the only channel i came to on irc.gnome.org
16:19:38 <hampton> These are python bindings. the other was a proposed re-implementation in mono.
16:19:38 <BlackBsd> im comming from freenode
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16:34:11 <jsled> Ah, yeah, this is the same guy (I apparently just lost a couple hours worth of email... :/ )
16:34:51 <jsled> I wish he'd just work with us, rather than as a seperate (savanah, &c.) project.
16:34:53 <jsled> Oh well.
16:36:26 <warlord> hmm, i wonder if I'm missing this email?
16:37:22 <jsled> It's on -user, actually.
16:37:25 <jsled> (biab)
16:37:59 <warlord> time? subject?
16:38:40 <hampton> announcing python bindings for GnuCash. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:18:25 -0600 (15:18 EST)
16:39:46 <hampton> I'm going to break *lots* of his bindings when I get around to renaming functions from xaccAccountXxx to gnc_account_xxx, etc, etc.
16:40:05 <warlord> Huh. I'm not seeing it in my inbox
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16:47:16 <warlord> I bet MIT mail is being slow.
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17:27:47 * hampton sighs
17:28:16 <hampton> what fun. GtkPrint coordinates start in the upper left-hand corner. GnomePrint coordinates start in the lower left-hand corner.
17:28:25 <jsled> heh.
17:28:30 <warlord> Oh LOVELY
17:28:46 <warlord> I guess that GnomePrint is more postscript-like..
17:28:59 <BlackBsd> one is cartiesion and one is the other
17:29:46 <hampton> even more fun is that GnomePrint takes a rotation in degrees, and GtkPrint takes it in radians. :-)
17:30:09 <BlackBsd> there are formulas to convert from radians to degrees
17:30:13 <BlackBsd> and vice versa
17:30:23 <hampton> multiply or divide by 57.xxxx
17:30:43 <BlackBsd> i think there are c math libraries to change the x,y from one to the other also
17:30:44 * hampton just wants to bump the required gtk version to 2.10. :-)
17:36:30 <warlord> What version of gtk2 will RHEL5 have?
17:49:31 <BlackBsd> is there a standard naming convention for the file that is stored on disk such as MyFinances.gnc
17:49:40 <BlackBsd> or such
17:50:10 <jsled> there's no standard for the filename; there are a few different extensions associated with gnucash: .xac, .gnucash, and .gnc, I think.
17:50:27 <BlackBsd> thanks
17:54:30 <hampton> What's RHEL5 based on? F7t2 has gtk2-2.10.9-4.fc7.i386.rpm
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18:03:11 <warlord> I dont know.
18:03:17 <warlord> I suspect FC5 or FC6
18:03:23 <warlord> But I dont know.
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18:27:28 <hampton> fc6 uses gtk2-2.10.8-1.fc6, fc5 uses gtk2-2.8.15-1.fc5.
18:28:02 <warlord> Okay...
18:28:15 <warlord> I've still got FC5 on my desktop for another month.. Then (hopefully) I'll have FC7
18:29:50 <warlord> But I think we should make sure that we support RHEL5
18:41:39 <jsled> Hmm. These bug-buddy created summaries are bad. "Crash in Gnucash Finance Management: I was ..."
18:42:04 <jsled> Well, annoying. I guess we can modify the .desktop file to change the behavior, though... I wonder how.
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18:56:54 <chris> 18:17 < dom> something like that
18:56:54 <chris> 18:17 < dom> something like that
18:56:55 <chris> 18:17 < dom> something like that
18:58:30 <jsled> chris: eh?
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19:10:37 <MrN> n8
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19:25:14 <BlackBsd> hi
19:27:24 <warlord> Wow, the python bindings email JUST made it into my inbox..
19:27:49 <warlord> (got stuck in MIT's email system)
19:28:11 <jsled> heh.
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19:42:16 <esodan> Hi all!
19:42:39 <esodan> I just want to say: I'm alive! and working...
19:43:13 <esodan> I have libqof compiling, but I need to fix the engine in some objects becouse the changes in libqof...
19:43:58 <jsled> esodan: So it's less broken than before? commit it, then. :)
19:44:59 <esodan> well, it GC doesn't compile (at engine objects)... but libqof is compiling now...
19:45:13 <jsled> Right, so it's better than it was before.
19:45:54 <jsled> currently I think it fails on the first file it tries to built, so building at least libqof is great!
19:46:00 <esodan> Of course, and I think you'll be find libqof working faster becouse now it use GType in all its operations in objects types...
19:49:41 <esodan> i'll try to commit asap... :)
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19:51:46 <BlackBsd> i have a 401K from work, and i made this an asset account, do i have to include this value in the calculations of the reports?
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19:51:57 <BlackBsd> because i cannot really get to the money
19:52:10 <BlackBsd> should this still be an asset?
19:52:16 <jsled> Yes, it's still an asset.
19:52:25 <jsled> You can exclude it from the reports if you like.
19:52:47 <BlackBsd> what is the proper thing to do with this kinda asset
19:53:06 <jsled> What do you mean?
19:53:14 <BlackBsd> i do contribute to it, how do i exclude it from calculations
19:53:43 <BlackBsd> can i exclude it yet not have it hidden
19:53:57 <jsled> Deselect it in the options for the report.
19:54:16 <BlackBsd> oh, thats simple
19:54:48 <jsled> Anyone familiar with kcachegrind?
19:56:18 <chris> jsled: used it a few times.
19:56:29 <chris> not recently, though.
19:56:53 <jsled> chris: do you remember a quick start for it? Like, how to "run gnucash under kcachegrind" quickly? I just want to track down some memory problems...
19:57:22 <chris> you don't want valgrind?
19:58:09 <jsled> Maybe I do, which I've at least used in the past. I'd been hearing noise that kcachegrind was really nifty, thouhg.
19:58:36 <chris> I've only used it for profiling, not debugging.
19:59:14 <jsled> Ah; I'm probably better to try valgrind, then.
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20:21:55 <warlord> jsled: gnucash-env cachegrind gnucash-bin ?
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20:27:23 <hampton> run gnucash-valgrind
20:27:32 * jsled nods
20:27:45 <jsled> I guess it needs to be changed to "start collecting", maybe?
20:28:46 <hampton> I stick start/stop calls in the source for better isolation of the area of interest.
20:28:47 <jsled> I modified it to run memcheck, but unfortunately it didn't seem to trap whatever the error is... though it did trace into bug buddy, as the crash occurred, so I know I caused the condition.
20:28:48 <BlackBsd> jsled, i have used kcachegrind
20:28:57 <hampton> and yes, kcachegrind is neat.
20:29:15 <jsled> hampton: oh, that'd be awesome. Pointer to docs re: the "start/stop calls"?
20:29:31 <hampton> I think I've only really used it for profiling, not memory debugging.
20:29:52 <BlackBsd> is there work going on for different frontends?
20:30:00 <BlackBsd> is there licensing issues
20:30:08 <jsled> no, there's not.
20:30:10 <jsled> licensing issues?
20:30:25 <BlackBsd> theirs going to be no qt frontend?
20:31:26 <jsled> There's not one presently. If someone wants to contribute one, that'd be great. I think the issues would be much more technical than licensing-based.
20:31:41 <hampton> I used to have start/stop commands in the gnucash menu, but I pulled them at some point in the past. I'll find the calls for you in 20 min or so. I need to shower first.
20:31:49 <jsled> i.e., how to practically keep both front-ends up to do in the face of changes ...
20:32:29 <jsled> If we really wanted to be UI/front-end/toolkit agnostic, we should use something like wxWidgets instead.
20:32:34 <hampton> we should ditch both gtk and kde. do a web frontend. yeah, that's the ticket. :-)
20:33:10 <jsled> heh.
20:33:26 <chris> hampton: using XUL. yeah!
20:33:43 <jsled> GncUL.
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21:06:26 <hampton> jsled: http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/14351
21:07:43 <jsled> Awesome, thanks.
21:07:55 <hampton> or http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/doc/valgrind.txt
21:08:16 <jsled> Ah. Heh.
21:19:51 <warlord> hampton: nice.
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21:51:11 <warlord> BIAB
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22:37:45 <hampton> I'm not a fan of goto statements, but sometime they just seem to make the most sense.
22:38:49 <jsled> hampton: they certainly help error handling in C ... something try/catch/finally or for/else or [...] is even better.
22:39:22 <hampton> I was thinking of the repetitive error handling case.
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22:51:56 <BlackBsd> how do you figure out Retained Earnings?
22:56:03 <warlord> I - Ex
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23:37:51 <hampton> Any suggestion on where check description files should live? I was sorta thinking <top>/checks to since there's a <top>/accounts directory. Doesn't really seem like they should live under <top>/src since there's nothing source code about them.
23:39:37 <jsled> <top>/checks sounds good. I was meaning to ask you ... are the check descriptions self-contained single (xml) files, or does a single description contain multiple files/parts?
23:40:00 <warlord> Yeah, <top>/checks sounds good.
23:40:58 <hampton> I took warlord's suggestion and made them GKeyFiles. Each file describes a "page" of checks, whether that's three checks to a page or only one check on a page.
23:41:39 <jsled> What about — say — logo images referenced for a check?
23:41:58 <jsled> (/me makes stuff up)
23:42:02 <hampton> Just like the existing code, you describe a check and then describe how many times that check can be printed on a singloe page (and where)
23:42:13 <hampton> images are supported, as is arbitrary text.
23:42:22 <warlord> jsled: we never supported that before..
23:42:31 <hampton> nope, but its there now.
23:42:51 <jsled> hampton: is the image path relative to the metadata/gkeyfile, or absolute?
23:43:03 <hampton> Right now its absolute.
23:43:22 <warlord> Have you decided where you want to install the check format files?
23:44:01 <hampton> The code is set up so there's a (hard coded) default text font, which can be overridden with a default fint for a particular check format, which can be overridden on an item per item basis.
23:45:00 * jsled nods
23:45:57 <hampton> The code looks in (I believe) <prefix>/share/gnucash/checks and then ~.gnucash/checks.
23:46:19 <warlord> that's reasonable.
23:46:22 <hampton> its <pkgdatadir>/checks, whatever that expands to
23:47:08 <hampton> The code scans the directory, tosses out obvious backup files, and then tries to parse anything left.
23:48:08 <jsled> awesome.
23:48:46 <jsled> "obvious" = ? ~, .bak, # ... ?
23:48:46 <hampton> I'm still debating whether to add support for printing multiple checks.
23:49:07 <hampton> right now its *~ and *.bak
23:49:19 <hampton> adding #* is a good idea
23:51:20 <warlord> Why not just look for *.chk ?
23:51:33 <jsled> good point.
23:52:12 <hampton> true. I tripped over backups and didn't think to be inclusive instead of exclusive.
23:56:51 <hampton> k. Now it first tosses #* then looks for *.chk
23:58:04 <hampton> which may be overkill since emacs uses #<name># for in process edits