2007-03-01 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:34:40 <foo> hmm
02:34:56 <foo> If I set up paypal as an asset, what do I do with a transaction in paypal that pulls money from my bank?
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02:35:23 <warlord> bank -> paypal..
02:35:52 <foo> ah, right.. make a transaction that takes from bank and puts to paypal account.. then I'd have a transaction in paypal for whatever I bought.
02:35:56 <warlord> or bank -> expense with description of 'paypal'
02:35:57 <foo> Thanks warlord
02:36:04 <warlord> np
02:36:08 <foo> hmm, I see. Cool, thanks
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12:56:08 <bonez39> how do I export my chart of accounts from gnucash, for importing INTO Quickbooks?
12:57:45 <jsled> I don't think we generate anything can be imported into Quickbooks. There's an option in the File menu to export a gnucash-format datafile with *just* the account tree.
12:58:01 <jsled> You could then XSLT or awk or whatever transform that into some other format.
12:58:15 <warlord> Can QB import QIF?
13:01:07 <warlord> If so, gnucash2qif is your friend.
13:19:57 <bonez39> yeah....gnucash can import from quickbooks in QIF format, why then not the other direction?
13:20:38 <jsled> that's not the way software works
13:20:55 <bonez39> it's a one-way trip, eh?
13:21:12 <bonez39> I realize ... it's insane to want to move in the direction I propose.....
13:21:43 <jsled> They could be written to be bidirectional, but it's just not usually the way things are written.
13:22:03 <jsled> It's more work. Less concrete. Harder to get right.
13:23:09 <jsled> No value judgement; if the incremental cost of getting both an exporter and importer was zero, or even sufficiently low, it'd probably happen.
13:23:31 <bonez39> I hear ya.......just checkin.........
13:33:15 <jsled> (not related to that) http://alistair.cockburn.us/index.php/What_engineering_has_in_common_with_manufacturing_and_why_it_matters is great.
13:44:34 <warlord> Wow. It's March!
13:44:42 <jsled> Heh.
13:44:44 <jsled> no kidding.
13:45:09 <jsled> The last 2 months went by real fast.
13:46:36 <warlord> Yeah
13:48:59 <foo> Hm, in a transaction.. what do I do with the memo? eg. if I am making a paypal transfer, should I put the product in the description or memo? Probably description
13:49:56 <jsled> seems right.
13:50:14 <foo> I know when I view all the transactions it shows the description and not the memo part
13:50:15 <jsled> I rarely use the memo ... usually the description, and that's usually the same of the retailer.
13:50:23 <foo> I see, ok
13:51:13 <jsled> I use the memo most often if I think -- when I see the retailer in the Expense account -- that'd be confused about why the txn was in there.
13:51:37 <foo> txn?
13:51:42 <jsled> transaction
13:51:43 <warlord> foo: sound it out.
13:51:53 <foo> hehe
13:52:14 <jsled> A good example is buying Homebrew ingredients at the grocery store... most of the transactions are against Vermont Homebrew Supply; if I saw the grocery store in there, I'd not exactly remember why.
13:52:26 <jsled> Well, not a very good example, but.
13:53:10 <jsled> Better might be seeing the grocery store in Expenses:Auto:Maintenance .... window-washer fluid.
14:03:34 <foo> Hm, if I write someone a check - do I enter the check on the day it was cashed as a transaction, or the day I write out the check? Hmm
14:03:52 <foo> I'd say the day it was cashed only because that's when it appears on the bank statement if I had to guess
14:07:07 <warlord> The day you write it out.
14:11:33 <foo> And, I'm syncing up my paypal transactions with gnucash by hand by checking history and stuff... if paypal account says it took money from my bank account to put it into paypal to make a payment.. do I enter the transaction as being on the day where paypal said it pulled out the money? Or on the day where the money was actually pulled? Hmm
14:18:15 <foo> Because the days paypal says it's getting the money and the actual day the money is withdrew via bank is different
14:21:58 <warlord> Do it the day you intiate the transfer.
14:24:34 <foo> ok, thanks
14:24:39 * foo might be overthinking this :)
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14:28:41 <foo> Main reason I asked is because I paid someone last year from paypal at the end of the month... and it was actually withdrawn first week of this year
14:28:50 <foo> So I just won't record it this year because I recorded it last year anywho
14:29:39 <Alan_Bell> hello, I want to be able to do a mail merge in OpenOffice.org and point it at my Gnucash file for the customer list
14:29:39 <Alan_Bell> I think I need a jdbc driver to do this
14:29:39 <Alan_Bell> I think I can probably write one, but is there already one, or a better way to achieve this?
14:29:39 <Alan_Bell> I was thinking of writing basically a shell of a jdbc driver which would read the uncompressed XML file and the only SQL operation it would support initially would be "SELECT * from Customers"
14:29:42 <Alan_Bell> this would return a resultset of GncCustomer records.
14:30:14 <warlord> foo: that's probably best..
14:31:01 <warlord> Alan_Bell: um, i guess you could do that.. gnucash doesn't support it now so you'd have to write it.
14:31:06 <foo> warlord: thanks. Hm, in terms of paypal fees.. so, I invoice someone, they pay me over paypal.. where do I deduct the 3% ? Should I just make a separate transaction that takes from my paypal account and puts it in paypal expense or something
14:32:25 <warlord> foo: or make it a split transaction.
14:32:42 <warlord> (you can modify the transaction after-the-fact, so long as you don't change the amount in the A/R split)
14:32:43 <foo> warlord: I see. What would you recommend?
14:32:47 <foo> I see
14:33:34 <warlord> Up to you. IANAA so I have no recommendations ;)
14:39:52 <foo> warlord: Google define failed me for that word. What does it stand for? :)
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14:44:22 <warlord> foo: google for IANAA gave me this: http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/IANAA
14:44:44 <foo> Hm, I used google's define:ianaa
14:44:44 <foo> hehe
14:46:12 <warlord> well, that was silly of you!
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14:46:29 <foo> :D
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15:26:42 <MrN> hi
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15:50:29 <lewy> I have an A/P vendor from whom I have more than one invoice outstanding. Is it possible to pay multiple invoices with one check? How would I arrange to do that?
15:51:13 <warlord> lewy: Just do it.
15:51:27 <warlord> the "invoice" is optional.. GnuCash applies payments as a FIFO
15:51:51 <warlord> So if you have two invoices, for $50 and $150, a single $200 payment will mark both of them as paid.
15:52:53 <lewy> Oh. I'll go try that. Thanks. I may be back with more Qs. :)
15:53:10 <warlord> lewy: I suggest you read the docs and FAQ before coming back.. :-D
15:53:28 <lewy> I did, but I guess I missed it. Sorry.
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18:11:14 <warlord> Yay! 2.0.5 update for debian!
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18:12:34 <hampton> :-)
18:13:05 <andi5> even better, it will be in etch
18:13:50 <warlord> Yeah!
18:15:35 <hampton> FC7T2 came out today...
18:15:45 <hampton> oh, yeah.
18:15:48 <hampton> andi5: pong
18:16:03 <andi5> uhhhh... really bad latency
18:16:42 <hampton> thyat
18:16:57 <andi5> well, i plan to rewrite some price-quote stuff at the weekend and i guess you have some great advices / answers to my questions :)
18:16:58 <hampton> that's my brain for you. latency of about two days..... ;-)
18:17:35 <hampton> I can tackle that if you want to do something else.
18:17:37 <andi5> it will be hard, because i hate perl ;-) ... maybe i should try to hack it in vi ;-)
18:17:59 <andi5> well, that would be really great, hampton
18:18:04 <warlord> yeah, i noticed FC7t2 was released today.
18:18:10 <hampton> np
18:18:29 <warlord> It looks like my new laptop wont make it into my hands until April 2, so I'll probably just wait and install FC7 on it.
18:18:35 <andi5> as usual, i can test everything on windows :)
18:18:41 <hampton> I was thinking of changing gnc-fq-helper from doing a perl->scheme conversion to a perl->xml conversion.
18:18:51 <andi5> hehe, that was what i planned too :)
18:19:03 <hampton> I'm not really sure what format would be best for that interface if the code is in C
18:19:20 * hampton fires up bittorrent
18:19:22 <warlord> hampton: what about a GKeyFile format?
18:20:45 <andi5> i just thought that spitting out xml with some perl xml module would be even easier, but well, i have no clue :)
18:20:49 <hampton> makes no difference to me. I have the same question about the check printing conversion. should the check description files be in xml or in GKeyFile format. What's easier for users to parse, hack into new check styles, etc, etc,
18:21:09 <jsled> properties-style files are pretty straightforward.
18:21:26 <jsled> Especially if the format/schema is small and bounded.
18:21:40 <hampton> I've got an xml check parser half hacked together, but its kinda a pain in the arse even with the GMarkupParser functions.
18:21:59 <hampton> GKeyFile would probably be easier to code too.
18:22:14 <andi5> ohmm... check printing cannot use the new (to appear) report framework somehow? (never printed anything)
18:23:05 <hampton> no, its basically "move x,y", "write text".
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18:24:15 <warlord> hampton: Yeah, I think GKeyFile format is probably much easier for a casual user to generate on their own.
18:24:21 <warlord> I'd recommend that for the check formats.
18:24:40 <hampton> works for me
18:24:43 <andi5> hampton: another issue: do you think we will have gtkprint support in 2.2? because i think i will have to take a thorough look at some win32 gtk print bugs then :)
18:25:15 <hampton> will gnucash2.2 require gtk2.10? ;-)
18:25:28 <andi5> probably ... not
18:26:21 <hampton> I was going to make the check printing code use GnomePrint on gtk<2.10, and GtkPrint on gtk>=2.10
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18:28:36 <andi5> [ot] is there a way to rename gncbot_ back?
18:28:43 <jsled> @nick gncbot
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18:28:48 <andi5> thanks
18:28:50 <jsled> :)
18:29:51 *** hampton sets mode: +oo prock warlord
18:29:56 <warlord> feel better now?
18:30:42 * andi5 has a rule to speak with gncbot when he logs in.... but gncbot was not there :(
18:31:31 * hampton has a rule not to speak to strangers
18:31:44 <andi5> strange
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19:02:11 <MrN> n8
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19:30:50 <jsled> Heh. http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/24.58.html#subj10.1
19:39:31 <warlord> amusing
19:40:00 <jsled> Also, <http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/> (via <http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/01/1613253&from=rss>) is pretty interesting.
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19:40:50 <dbr> Hi. Where does the --debug output that used to go to the terminal window go now in trunk?
19:41:19 <jsled> /tmp/gnucash.trace, I think.
19:41:26 * jsled context switches...
19:41:29 <dbr> not on my machine
19:41:36 <jsled> Oh. Heh.
19:42:06 <warlord> LOL http://blogs.csoonline.com/node/151
19:42:16 <warlord> ( found by the link you just gave, jsled )
19:42:35 <jsled> On trunk, --debug just turns up logging, but doesn't change where it's output.
19:42:40 <warlord> dbr: it SHOULD be /tmp/gnucash.trace. ls -l /tmp/gnucash.trace*
19:43:14 <jsled> warlord: Oh, yeah ... I'd seen that one a couple of weeks ago, it's very good.
19:43:53 <dbr> I'll go look again. I had one of those files from yesterday (no --debug then) but when I did --debug this morning, there is no f::q trace info there.
19:43:56 <warlord> Yeah. I've seen that system, too. It's actually Linux-based!
19:44:19 <warlord> dbr: oh, it's POSSIBLE that f::q trace info might not go in htere..
19:45:34 <dbr> in 2.0.5 it still goes to terminal, though.
19:45:48 <jsled> dbr: What's an example of one of the lines?
19:45:57 <jsled> (so I can find it in the source, and figure out how it's emitted...)
19:46:46 <dbr> gnucash: [D] (handling-request ("tiaacref" "CREFequi" "CREFstok"))
19:47:27 <jsled> Ah, easy enough. :) That's a (gnc:debug [...]), which now maps to calling g_log(G_LOG_DEBUG, [...]), which should go to the default log file....
19:47:47 <jsled> ...except...
19:48:50 <jsled> Ah. "--debug" only dialog logging down to the level of INFO. Which means DEBUG-level messages won't get output.
19:49:01 <jsled> s/dialog/dials/
19:49:39 <jsled> Which isn't so good. The reason I did that is that otherwise, the TRACE-level detail (i.e., WAY too much) from the UI would get output.
19:50:29 <jsled> Hmm. So, assuming the gnc:debug calls are going to be more conservative than the TRACE/ENTER/LEAVE detail in the rest of the code, the gnc:debug calls could map to INFO, instead.
19:50:46 <jsled> Then they'd be output when --debug was given, which would mirror the previous behavior more closely.
19:51:15 <jsled> dbr: if you want to see them immediately, just pass '--log gnc.scm=debug' as well.
19:51:38 <jsled> (Also, if you want them on stdout, just pass '--logto stdout')
19:53:04 <dbr> jsled: I guess I'll save that line -- I discovered that my failure to update HTML::TableExtract causes f::q to throw an error on attempting to download Canadian mutual fund quotes. So the immediate need has gone.
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21:02:45 <pac1> I don't see ofx import in the menu. Why would that be? Gnucash 2.0.1
21:03:34 <warlord> pac1: because you didn't --enable-ofx when you built it.
21:04:07 <pac1> warlord, thanks, gotta check how to do that in gentoo.
21:04:50 <warlord> use=ofx
21:04:56 <warlord> (or something like that)
21:05:20 <dbr> ooh. --logto stdout might be able to give me a clue why some of my ofxdirectconnect sessions end so squirrelly
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21:29:29 <jsled> pac1: yeah ... `echo "app-office/gnucash ofx" >> /etc/portage/package.use`
21:29:40 <jsled> (or edit it however your like, of course)
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21:56:35 <pac1> jsled, thanks. That's not anywhere I can find on google.
21:57:52 <pac1> http://www.gentoo-portage.com/app-office/gnucash
21:57:58 <pac1> bingo!
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22:05:15 <jsled> pac1: what's not anywhere you can find on google? The use flags?
22:07:06 <jsled> `equery uses gnucash` will list them ... I like `dep --usedesc`, which is part of ecatmur's 'udept' package.
22:26:52 <warlord> okay, I'm out. TTYL.
22:27:50 <jsled> warlord: g'night.
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22:29:37 <pac1> jsled, I gotta write up some of this stuff. I knew there was an equery, but not that that's what i should use to find out about use flags.
22:33:58 <jsled> pac1: oh? What do you think you should use?
22:37:08 * jsled is just actually curious, fwiw...
22:37:30 <jsled> I'm looking at <http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=1>. It's fucking horrible.
22:37:46 <jsled> [[[
22:37:48 <jsled> Portage is completely written in Python and Bash and therefore fully visible to the users as both are scripting languages.
22:37:49 <jsled> ]]]
22:38:45 <jsled> Oh, yeah. Scripting lang = "full visibility". Good job, idiots.
22:41:05 <Wilddev> jsled: lol
22:41:19 <jsled> Wilddev: heh. hey. :)
22:41:32 <Wilddev> jsled: its a quick hack added to by people who wouldn't know how to write a C prog if they tried
22:42:26 <jsled> There's some really bad parts. I love gentoo, but I didn't know about how to use emerge for a full year after my machine was up.
22:42:56 <Wilddev> yeah
22:43:05 <jsled> People do not understand brevity.
22:43:15 <jsled> It is the core dependency.
22:46:06 <pac1> jsled, equery, but I didn't know that before you mentioned it.
22:46:42 <jsled> pac1: I see.
22:49:47 <pac1> jsled, not only do they not understand brevity, if you're verbose, they don't even read what you write. Where's the middle ground?
22:50:33 <jsled> In failed brevity ... but at least then you tried. :)
22:53:08 <pac1> short words is best. short words used sparingly is best of all.
22:53:24 <pac1> -- W. Churchill.
22:53:53 <jsled> :)
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23:00:47 <acidlnx> Hi, I'm trying to install GnuCash 2.0.5 on Slackware 11.0. When I run configure, I get: "Cannot find SLIB." I downloaded SLIB 2d6 (The FAQ said that this version is needed.) I placed the files from SLIB in /usr/share/slib, and linked from /usr/share/guile/1.8/slib I still get the same message. Is there a version of SLIB that does a standard configure/make/make install? Is there a step I need to preform to make SLIB known to guile
23:00:47 <acidlnx> ? Thanks.
23:02:34 <jsled> acidlnx: Not sure; slib is weird.
23:03:01 <jsled> if you like sources, then you might like gentoo...
23:03:27 <jsled> ... which is a way of saying that I know gentoo has solved this, and it's fairly straightforward.
23:04:05 <jsled> Also, it's a way of saying that slackware hasn't solved this, and you should try a real distro. ;)
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23:04:22 <acidlnx> heh
23:04:29 <acidlnx> How did Gentoo fix it?
23:05:37 <ballagan> sorry to interrup, but this is keeping me awake:
23:05:55 <ballagan> whats the difference between the 'assets total'
23:06:12 <ballagan> and the 'Assets:' at the bottom of the accounts screen?
23:12:29 <ballagan> and 'grand total' is just blank
23:12:30 <ballagan> wtf?
23:13:19 <jsled> W. T. F.
23:14:37 <jsled> acidlnx: it appears that /usr/share/slib is linked from /usr/share/guile/slib
23:15:46 <ballagan> ok, sorry.. I'll go freak out on my own
23:16:24 <jsled> ballagan: sorry, I'm a bit punchy. /me looks...
23:19:05 <ballagan> np
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