2007-02-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:34:24 <looseSpark> Thanks to the Gnucash devs for the Windows build. Despite the warnings it seems to be very stable so far for me!
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09:06:37 <MrN> hi
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10:06:53 <jsled> hampton: a message from dhampton.net just came into the moderation queue; are you going to resend, or do you want me to let it through, or...?
10:07:40 <hampton> I'll resend. thanks.
10:09:00 <hampton> I wish evolution could attach email addresses to folders
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11:09:53 <warlord> hampton: FYI, could you look at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=412673 -- I suspect it's due to the group removal.
11:11:39 <jsled> cmdty template ... the only thing that uses that is SXes, iirc.
11:11:59 <hampton> its definitely sx related
11:12:52 <hampton> I'll look at it. I though the code produced xml files where the only change was the addition of two root nodes; one for the main account tree and one for SXes
11:13:13 <warlord> ok
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11:35:05 <warlord> off to the office. BIAB.
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13:10:06 <jsled> Wow. I just brain-farted Visual Studio as Visual Stupid.
13:10:29 <jsled> Which is weird, because I don't even particularly dislike it, or even know much about it.
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13:12:00 <warlord> hehe
13:12:06 <MrN> jsled: i think it is overrated anyways
13:12:26 <MrN> i feel better with gvim + console (+ ddd) :D
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14:30:03 <foo> Hmm, ok. I need to set up a paypal account as an asset... but, when I'm invoicing someone, and I know they are paying me and it's going to be via paypal, should Income Account still be Income:Sales? Or should I make an Income:Paypal or something?
14:30:58 <warlord> No, it's income sales. And then you "Process Payment" from A/R -> Assets:Paypal
14:31:13 <foo> ahh, ok
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14:31:38 <foo> And I would still post to Assets:Accounts Receivable - right? Probably.
14:34:50 <warlord> Of course.
14:35:33 <foo> ok, thanks
14:35:49 <foo> Hm, and - if I write someone a check, is that considered accounts payable? Since they haven't cashed it yet
14:37:20 <warlord> Generally no.
14:37:29 <warlord> One you write the check it's considered an expenditure.
14:37:42 <warlord> If they BILL you but you haven't written a check, THAT is a Payable.
14:39:59 <foo> gotcha, I know that.. just wasn't sure about the check since it wasn't instant. Cool, thanks warlord
14:41:36 <warlord> it's not instant but it's still a financial instrument.
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14:47:10 <foo> right
14:47:30 <foo> If I invoice someone after he has already paid me, is there anything special to do to have it say Paid in full so when I send the invoice they know they already paid it?
14:47:41 <foo> I could just write it on the bottom of the page where it says thank you for your patronage
14:49:52 <warlord> Just be vigilant about Process Payment for all monies you receive. When you post the invoice it should take those pre-payments into account.
14:50:09 <warlord> gotta run. lunch.
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15:08:24 <foo> warlord-afk: Yeah, the guy I helped out said that he already paid me and he doesn't see that on the invoice. I could just write it in the comment box and print a pdf ... unless you think there is a better way.
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16:17:50 <warlord> foo: Send a Customer Report along with the invoice...
16:18:16 <warlord> Or... IIRC, there's an "include payments" flag on the Printable Invoice. (I'm not 100% sure about that)
16:21:13 <foo> ah, there is
16:21:14 <foo> thanks
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16:55:50 <MrN> hi
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18:09:12 <lino> hi, i'm trying to build gnucash 2.x on freebsd, but it doesn't start
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18:09:26 <lino> do i need a fully working gnome?
18:10:08 <lino> i mean dbus, avahi or whatever services come with gnome?
18:11:01 <warlord> Maybe.. Depends on the implicit dependencies.
18:11:11 <warlord> But the package system should pull those all in for you.
18:11:28 <warlord> BIAB
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18:11:53 <lino> maybe it does, but i don't start the services so i wonder if that could be the issue
18:13:17 <lino> i just scraped it in anger and it's 76 dependencies, so i can't test it :)
18:16:02 <jsled> You might need the dbus daemon running; we don't use dbus, but it sound like other things might.
18:16:15 <jsled> gconfd is used, but that should be started automagically when needed.
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18:17:39 <jsled> lino: was it just taking a really long time to start, or failing, or...?
18:18:00 <jsled> lino: did you see <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Why_does_Gnucash_start_incredibly_slowly_on_a_FreeBSD_system.3F>?
18:19:11 <lino> jsled: yes, i saw that
18:19:57 <lino> jsled: gc 2.0.5 should work now under freebsd, but not for me ... and some other guys
18:21:13 <lino> jsled: it doesn't start at all
18:22:23 <jsled> so it just drops back to the prompt? Are there any messages? If you run it under gdb, does that trap an error?
18:22:24 <lino> jsled: if i uninstall it, while it's running, it sometimes shows the splash and prints all the libraries it could not find :)
18:23:57 <lino> jsled: no, freebsd has problems with autotools and guile ... something
18:25:07 <lino> jsled: 1.8 started in 15 minutes
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18:26:24 <lino> jsled: 2.x just hangs on the comand line, didn't thought about the gdb thingy
18:26:43 <jsled> Is there any processor load while it running?
18:27:06 <jsled> Another thing to do would be to run it under (the freebsd analog of) strace to see what system calls are occuring.
18:27:46 <lino> jsled: load is around 15%
18:28:58 <lino> jsled: i tried ktrace (ala strace), but there was too much in there
18:29:18 <lino> jsled: didn't know what to look for
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18:30:09 <lino> jsled: main theme of freebsd patches was: libltdl_cv_sys_dlopen_deplibs=yes
18:31:37 <lino> jsled: now all official ports are patched but ... as i said
18:32:57 <MrN> n8
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18:34:22 <lino> if i waste my last working gnucash 2.0.2, what is the easiest way to get it working again...
18:34:32 <jsled> "waste"?
18:34:44 <lino> in some light linux version in qemu or something?
18:35:38 <jsled> I mean, if you want to run a virtual machine with some other distro, I guess that's always an options.
18:35:44 <lino> jsled: if i experiment with that desktop and results are the same as on the workstation
18:35:45 <jsled> s/options/option/
18:36:32 <jsled> You're saying you have gnucash-2.0.2 working on another machine (the desktop), and it failed on "the workstation", so if you go to upgrade and it doesn't work, what's the recourse?
18:37:32 <lino> jsled: i'd have to go the emulator route
18:38:21 <jsled> I guess. You're not being very clear.
18:39:00 <lino> jsled: sorry
18:40:24 <lino> jsled: yes, if it doesn't work, how can i get it back temporarily with minimal resources (qemu + linux or something)?
18:41:18 <jsled> If you're willing to go the virtual machine route, you have two options: try out 2.0.5 in the VM or keep the VM for 2.0.2.
18:42:00 <jsled> My gentoo box has a `quickpkg` feature that creates a binary package of the filesystem-installed version. I've used that in the past as a measure of safety/convenience.
18:42:12 <jsled> But ... it's very strange that 2.0.2 would work, but 2.0.5 would not.
18:42:24 <jsled> Are they both from ports, or...?
18:42:59 <lino> jsled: no, i made 2.0.2 myself, and problem is in the environment
18:44:11 <lino> jsled: i can make a package, but if i start uprading libraries or something i don't know when or why it will break
18:44:52 <jsled> You should need no other library changes between 2.0.2 and 2.0.5.
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18:45:51 <lino> jsled: but by upgrading to 2.0.5 i don't get anything
18:46:24 <lino> jsled: basically, i'm just panicking in fear that i won't get gnucash working again ... ever :)
18:46:25 <jsled> you get the bug fixes contained therein.
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18:48:23 <lino> jsled: have you tried running gnucash without the gnome environment?
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18:49:01 <jsled> What do you mean by "the gnome environment"?
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18:49:21 <lino> jsled: gnome services
18:49:41 <jsled> In short, the answer is no. I run startx which fires off metacity and runs the gnome panel.
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18:50:16 <jsled> But there's only a handful of gnome-related daemons I can think of, and they're not really gnome-specific.
18:52:37 <jsled> dbus. gconfd. I guess there's a gnome-vfs-daemon [:(] bonobo-activation-server.
18:53:09 <lino> jsled: ok, so the problem must be something else, probably still libtool and guile
18:53:54 <lino> jsled: what should i look for with strace?
18:54:03 <lino> jsled: :)
18:54:37 <jsled> that's a good question ... "where it's spending all that time" is the short answer, but it's more of an interpretative process.
18:56:35 <lino> jsled: :) thanks for your time, i'll have a sleep and then see what is the most economical approach
18:57:06 <jsled> It might be useful let gnucash try to start overnight, running under strace, and see what the output looks like.
18:57:24 <jsled> I mean, if it took 1.8 15 minutes to startup, maybe it'll take 2.0 30 minutes... :)
18:57:38 <cortana> what does 'enable EURO support mean'?
18:57:39 <warlord> jsled: Well, the guile->C startup should have sped it up..
18:57:43 <jsled> I've noticed that gnucash-2.x does spent a good bit of time spinning in scm_* calls on startup.
18:57:45 <cortana> i was already able to create an account with the EUR currency
18:57:48 <jsled> But, like, 30 seconds.
18:57:59 <jsled> warlord: yeah, indeed.
18:58:42 <lino> what is guile->C startup?
19:00:34 <warlord> lino: the startup sequence was changed from guile to C
19:00:48 <warlord> jsled: yeah, guile is somewhat suboptimal about its environment.
19:01:05 <warlord> cortana: I believe it's the automatic conversion of Euro Currencies.
19:02:25 <jsled> lino: sorry, forgot to complete my thought up there; after running it under ${strace}, post the output somewhere, maybe link to it to -devel, so one of us can take a look over it and see if anything stands out.
19:03:12 <jsled> (note that if it contains the full return of file-read syscalls, then we'll have your entire datafile, so you might need to sanitize the output)
19:03:30 <jsled> (also, I think it reads /etc/passwd at startup, so that might be doubly bad)
19:03:56 <lino> jsled: good point :) thanks ... ups :(
19:04:11 <jsled> (of course, why in the bloody hell we read /etc/passwd (for entropy/guid seeding) is beyond me)
19:05:04 <cortana> heh, mozilla runs netstat and uses that as a seed(!)
19:05:33 <jsled> That's pretty silly.
19:10:01 <chris> jsled: R U kidding doooDe? /etc/passwd iz whare all the GOOOD etnropie livez!
19:10:29 <jsled> heh heh
19:10:50 <jsled> Changing all the time, as it is...
19:11:10 <lino> :))
19:12:24 <lino> haven't used this irc thingy for 7 (seven) years - but it's fun to be back
19:13:48 <lino> now have a good time everybody, my daytime job starts in couple hours
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