2007-02-04 GnuCash IRC logs

00:07:47 <foo> prock: hm, would you happen to know what it's called when a customer pays you for a product... what you list that as? err, I forgoet. /me tries to remember
00:13:18 <foo> prock: still around?
00:14:13 <prock> invoice? income? gross?
00:14:39 <prock> I don't use gnucash for business purposes so I'm not a good person to ask
00:15:59 <foo> ohh, ok
00:16:02 <foo> thanks anywho
00:17:01 <foo> prock: When importing from a QIF.. I can change the relevant accounts that some of these transactions go to later, right?
00:18:20 <prock> yes the importer is just trying to give you a way to get through a whole bunch of TX's at once... you can change everything later
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00:21:58 <foo> yeah
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00:47:58 <foo> If I'm importing a statement from my checking accounts ... the account name would be assests:current assests:checking account ... right?
00:51:30 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
00:51:45 <warlord> foo: It's whatever you named your checking account.
00:51:58 <warlord> (mine is: Assets:Current Assets:<bankname>:Checking
00:52:16 <warlord> but that's because I have multiple financial institutions and want to differentiate.
00:53:41 <foo> I see
00:53:43 <foo> heya warlord, thanks
00:54:05 <warlord> NP
00:57:33 <foo> hm, ok.. I transfered in the qif for jan 2007 from my bank, and it looks like I'm in the negativate
00:57:45 <foo> I probably need to set the starting amount on the account as of the 1st of jan
00:58:12 <foo> Right?
00:58:40 <foo> Should I just add a transaction that adds the starting amount in the account?
00:58:46 <foo> I don't see a way to set an initial amount
01:01:56 <foo> opening balances ... hmm, *scratches head
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01:25:38 <warlord> Xfer from Equity:Opening Balances -> <acct> with the opening balance on the start-date of your accounting.
01:41:20 <foo> warlord: thanks man.
01:42:20 <warlord> NP
01:52:22 <foo> hmm, I have a lot of paypal transactions in my bank account and when I imported the qif into gnucash, it appears as though it groupped all of paypal. I can go to paypal and see all the individual transactions but.. hmm, I wondering if it's better to do this manually. For some reason one of my transactions doesn't seem to be there, weird.
01:53:08 <foo> hm, not in my bank login either.. /me checks something
01:53:31 <foo> ah, I see. It grabbed from paypal money.
01:53:52 <foo> Hmm, should I create a separate paypal account under expense? I mean, it's kind of like a checking account but doesn't gain interest
01:55:59 <warlord> I would call paypal an Asset, not an Expense.
01:56:21 <foo> But it doesn't gain interest. What would make it an asset?
01:56:21 <foo> Just curious
01:58:08 <warlord> An asset means "money owed to you". Assets don't have to gain interest.
01:58:09 <foo> Guess it wouldn't really be an expense, either. Other than a portion is taken off money I get
01:58:26 <foo> ah, I thought of an asset as something that puts money in my pocket. I suppose that works as well
01:58:51 <foo> I use 2checkout as well
02:00:53 <warlord> Well, an asset WOULD put money in your pocket once you liquidate it.. But not necessarily more money than you put into it. Even a "car" is an asset!
02:02:28 <foo> Hm, how is a car an asset? At least a house typically raises in worth... a car depreciates when you drive it off the lot.
02:04:06 <rlaager> foo: A car is an asset because it has value. Depreciation reduces the value of an asset by converting it slowly into an expense.
02:04:07 <warlord> See above: an asset doesn't have to increase in value.... It just has to be resellable.
02:04:19 <foo> I see, ok
02:04:43 <foo> hmm, /me tries to get paypal to show me how much it had in it at the beginning of the month
02:17:08 <warlord> okay bedtime for me.. it's after 2a
02:17:52 <foo> warlord: thought it was late
02:17:53 <foo> see ya!
02:17:55 <foo> thanks!
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07:40:25 <MrN> hi
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08:37:32 <cstim> .
08:37:32 <gncbot> cstim: Sent 1 day, 20 hours, and 37 minutes ago: <warlord> Here's how you redirect stdout in a batch shell: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/150767
08:37:33 <gncbot> cstim: Sent 1 day, 20 hours, and 35 minutes ago: <warlord> google shows another link that explains to use > for stdout and 2> for stderr: http://supportweb.cs.bham.ac.uk/documentation/tutorials/docsystem/build/tutorials/win32scripting/win32scripting.html
08:37:47 <cstim> warlord: thanks.
08:38:22 <cstim> Everyone: The menu item "File -> Export -> Export Accounts..." is broken. It simply doesn't write any file, neither in branch-2.0 nor in trunk and also regardless of the locale.
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08:55:52 <andi5> hi cstim
08:57:02 <cstim> hi andi5
08:57:10 <cstim> can you reproduce?
08:57:52 <jsled> I can
08:57:52 <gncbot> jsled: Sent 12 hours and 10 minutes ago: <prock> I cannot reproduce the incorrect confirmation dialog problem ... I think I may have been setting the recurrence frequency to Weekly and then not selecting any days of the week. However I still am unable to set the recurrence frequency to Never and have it persist.
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08:58:06 <andi5> cstim: i am sorry, i am not in the mood to test it.... want to get these date-time-locale issues done...
08:58:21 <cstim> ok
08:58:27 <jsled> I can on trunk; /me tries 2.0.4
08:59:40 <andi5> jsled: i am going to apply http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/evolution-data-server/trunk/libedataserver/e-time-utils.c?rev=6940&r1=6806&r2=6940 to our strptime implementation... i hope this will enable us to use "%x" and friends on windows
08:59:41 <jsled> Repro'd on 2.0.4; if you `touch` the file first, it works.
09:00:28 <andi5> i will also need to convert all results of strftime from locale to utf8.... *ggrrr* ... i guess the same will be necessary for currency symbols, right? (i remember a recent bug on windows)
09:00:46 * cstim has a crying baby crawling around the chair
09:01:19 <cstim> andi5: the currency symbol *should* have been converted to utf8 already (in gnucash gnc_localeconv() or similar)
09:03:34 <andi5> cstim: ok, i see...
09:04:24 <cstim> andi5: that's in gnc-ui-util.c around line 773 (see http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/15237)
09:04:51 <cstim> that's why I am so puzzled about that win32 bugreport.
09:06:22 <andi5> did he say what type/package of gnucash he uses?
09:07:17 <cstim> no
09:07:39 * cstim is away: feeding the toddler
09:12:10 <jsled> cstim: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=372262
09:12:43 <andi5> no dev has comment yes, nice
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09:49:02 <warlord> .
09:49:39 <warlord> Yeah, I remember seeing the "Export Accounts" doesn't "create file" issue..
09:50:08 <jsled> You'd think it was the lack of the "+" on the g_fopen(filename, "w") call.
09:50:14 <jsled> But it's much more sinister than that. :(
09:51:52 <jsled> In fact ... the filename is passed to qof_session_begin, which then g_strdup's it into session->book_id.
09:52:02 <jsled> Then, it tests the path the user just gave us, which doesn't exist.
09:52:17 <jsled> Which triggers an error branch, which frees the book_id, and sets it to null.
09:52:39 <jsled> The caller checks the session error state, [unclear], and moves ahead calling export.
09:53:00 <jsled> Which then fails to open the file with either "w" or "w+"... but the error is silently ignored.
09:53:04 <jsled> It's awesome.
09:53:32 * jsled moves the book_id cleanup into qof_session_destroy (only)
09:55:53 <jsled> well, it's already in qof_session_end(..) ... so why does qof_session_begin(..) feel compelled to destroy it...
09:57:03 <jsled> Oh, or just call qof_session_begin(..., create_if_nonexistant=true). :p
09:58:26 <warlord> I suspect both Export and SaveAs should set create_if_nonexistant=true
09:59:26 <jsled> well, save-as has a whole test for file_not_found/no_such_db(/db_too_old) ...
10:00:53 <jsled> that's better.
10:01:40 <warlord> Working again?
10:01:43 <jsled> yeah
10:04:23 <warlord> Cool.
10:06:04 <warlord> andi5: Make Check on win32 keeps popping up dialogs about libgnc-backend-file-utils-0.dll
10:06:26 <andi5> where?
10:06:29 <warlord> (but other than that it seems to be working -- although it hasn't finished)
10:06:31 <warlord> All over the place.
10:06:44 <andi5> give me one
10:08:14 <warlord> run install.sh, then cd /c/soft/gnucash/build/ ummm.... engine/test? I think the problem is that gnc_init_module_system() winds up reading over the INSTALL directory, finding the file backend, tries to load it, and fails to find the -utils library.
10:08:20 <prock_> jsled: I shoud _gnc_sx_instance_event_handler fixed up today or tomorrow. I'm just tracking down an (almost) infinite loop in _gnc_sx_gen_instances because cur_date is starting off at 0.
10:08:29 *** prock_ is now known as prock
10:08:32 <jsled> oh, awesome.
10:08:43 <jsled> I'm just fixing the "can't set frequency to never" problem now.
10:08:48 <warlord> andi5: I'll try to find you ane exact directory.
10:09:01 <prock> got to go for now though.
10:10:59 <andi5> warlord: what is your GNC_MODULE_PATH environment variable?
10:11:07 <andi5> i have set none
10:11:15 <warlord> Um.. I dunno..
10:11:25 <warlord> I'll let you know once make check finishes.
10:11:32 <andi5> cannot you open another shell?
10:12:12 <warlord> That wont tell me what in the environment on THIS shell.. I ran reset.sh which erased /etc/profile.d/installer
10:13:10 <warlord> gnome-utils/test fails on libgoffice-0-3.dll
10:13:52 <warlord> GNC_MODULE_PATH appears to be empty.
10:14:16 <andi5> how did you check it?
10:14:36 <warlord> echo $GNC_MODULE_PATH
10:15:08 <warlord> I just reset my shell (killed it, and restarted another msys)
10:15:21 <warlord> I'm running make check again. I'll let you know the first failure.
10:15:27 <andi5> ah ok
10:15:50 <warlord> Oh, wow.. It fails much earlier now...
10:16:10 <warlord> gnc-module/test fails to find libgnc-module-0.dll
10:17:23 <warlord> Let me reset my environment..
10:17:30 <warlord> (based on the output of install.sh)
10:17:46 <andi5> normally that should not be necessary
10:18:32 <andi5> to bad, my src/engine does not compile currently, so i would need to do some work before i can test it :)
10:19:35 <warlord> Why doesn't it compile?
10:19:49 <andi5> i have uncompleted changes lying around :)
10:20:43 <warlord> Oh.
10:22:59 <andi5> jsled: would it be ok if the print functions in gnc-date.c returned newly allocated strings? (as results of g_strdup or g_locale_to_utf8)?
10:24:04 <jsled> andi5: which? like gnc_date_dateformat_to_string()?
10:24:19 <andi5> i guess using "function-static" buffers is not thread-safe, right?
10:24:35 <warlord> it's not thread-safe, but gnucash isn't multi-threaded.
10:24:52 <jsled> Oh, I see. More like gnc_print_date().
10:24:56 <andi5> yes, but there is no need to make it harder
10:25:22 <andi5> jsled: indeed
10:25:32 <jsled> Either passed-in buffers or caller-owned returns...
10:25:41 <warlord> IMHO returning a buffer you need to free is 'harder' for our usages...
10:25:45 <andi5> or maybe not... i must double-check
10:25:51 <warlord> I'd just change the API to pass in a buffer.
10:26:48 <andi5> the functions i want to change take buffers as parameters... but if i call g_locale_to_utf8 i will need to write the result into that buffer... seems backward
10:27:42 <andi5> (like qof_date_print_dmy_buff)
10:28:21 <warlord> *ponders*
10:30:21 <andi5> jsled: i got confused ... the difference between qof_print_date and qof_print_gdate is bigger than one might expect :)
10:32:00 <andi5> jsled: is "never" translatable?
10:32:09 <jsled> andi5: yeah
10:33:16 <andi5> warlord: how is your make check going?
10:33:38 * andi5 will have to watch handball :)
10:33:41 <warlord> It's rebuilding 'make' first.. I re-ran install.sh to get my environment settings.
10:34:09 <warlord> it's in src/gnome right now
10:34:17 <andi5> ok.... weird, i have never had problems despite the little ones i fixed =)
10:36:30 <warlord> cstim had problems, too.
10:36:42 <warlord> But I'll see..
10:36:45 <jsled> Hmm. It looks like gnc-date.c:qof_date_add{days,months} are silly and not used in the codebase. I think I'm going to remove them.
10:37:13 <jsled> Being right at the end of the file, it shouldn't conflict with you, andi5... but I'll hold if you like.
10:37:24 <andi5> no, better do it now than later :)
10:38:14 <jsled> As well, normal date_add_{days,months}.
10:38:26 <andi5> btw, there is some crasher in the gnc-date-entry that expects the result of strptime is perfect (but actually was -1 for me (different story))
10:38:31 <jsled> Oh, wait...
10:39:33 <jsled> Well, even though my first $(find | grep) ommitted the all-important xargs ... it turns out they're still not used. :)
10:41:27 <andi5> ok, -1 was the result of mktime then... i will have to take a look at that :(
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11:49:03 <warlord> @tell andi5 the first test to pop up the dialog is src/engine/test/test-create-account, probably because the test is finding libgncmod-backend-file.dll in /c/soft/gnucash/inst so it tries to load it.. but cant find/load the dependent DLL...
11:49:03 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
12:43:37 <warlord> @tell andi5 then in src/gnome-utils/test the test-link.exe fails because it cant find libgoffice-0-3.dll
12:43:37 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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13:44:45 <andi5> warlord: thanks for your patient, i finally found found the source of the problem :)
13:45:14 <warlord> Oh?
13:45:22 <andi5> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/engine/gnc-engine.c#L111
13:46:29 <andi5> basically the engine code depends on stuff build after it
13:48:11 <warlord> Hmm.. i wouldn't call that 'depending on' per se...
13:48:44 <andi5> ah, ok.. it is a message ....
13:49:03 <andi5> hmpf, that is tricky... if the module has not been installed yet, the check will pass and print -> module not found
13:49:24 <andi5> if it has, then $INST_DIR\\bin is needed in path for the module to load
13:50:03 <warlord> yeah... the 'check' is 'erroneously' looking into instdir
13:50:18 <andi5> btw, the popup does not let the test fail.... a detail i never actually read in your posts ;-) (you probably said it correctly)
13:51:22 <warlord> the goffice failure DOES fail the tests.. but no, not the backend-file-utils
13:51:33 <andi5> warlord: yes, goffice has been fixed
13:52:37 <andi5> i have never seen the dialog box, because i had $INST_DIR\\bin in my path, so that i can start gnucash by entering "gnucash"
13:53:30 <warlord> ahh!
13:53:57 <andi5> i also had goffice in my path.... and i really thought i had tested that, well... that is life
13:54:54 <warlord> :)
13:55:09 <warlord> I only did what install.sh told me to do.
13:55:15 <andi5> soooo... what happens when you add goffice\\bin to your path?
13:55:29 <andi5> warlord: yes, i am very happy about that... fingers are autocompleting all the time
13:56:18 <warlord> Heh
13:56:47 <andi5> btw, there is no need to rerun install.sh... simply open a new msys shell (with goffice\\bin in path) and run make check (everything is included in the Makefile's, you know)
13:57:34 <andi5> but the dialog box is annoying.... do you see a way to avoid it?
13:58:04 <warlord> Yes, adding goffice/bin to my path fixed that issue.
13:58:20 <andi5> we could add gnucash\\bin to path..... why the heck did we never do that???
13:58:34 <warlord> I needed to rerun install.sh to get the appropriate PATH settings.
13:59:41 <andi5> ok... seems like i am very tired today.... is there any reason NOT to add gnucash\\bin? i do not see one and will do now....
14:00:39 <warlord> I can't think of a good reason not to add gnucash\\bin to the END of the path...
14:01:14 <warlord> Except for the fact that the test-env will put the $PATH ahead of TEST-ENV and that means you'll never be testing your "new" libraries unless you "make install" first.
14:01:55 <andi5> warlord: gotcha... i will try to fix that before, thanks
14:02:06 <warlord> well, it's only an issue on win32 ;)
14:03:55 <warlord> LOL
14:10:10 <warlord> andi5: another option is to detect that you're running a test and not look in INST for backend loads.
14:11:54 <andi5> warlord: if i manage to produce a gnc-test-env patch, are you able to test that for me on another system than win32?
14:13:35 <warlord> Sure, i can test Linux.
14:13:41 <andi5> cool
14:13:54 <warlord> (my win32 system is 1200 miles away from me -- I'm using that via VNC)
14:14:11 <andi5> hehe
14:14:13 <warlord> Actually, it's a VM that lives on a host system 1200 miles away..
14:24:41 <andi5> warlord: http://pastebin.ca/raw/340391 .... i cannot yet guarantee its correctness, because compile on windows are ... slow, and i probably need to recompile everything :( ....
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14:26:25 <warlord> andi5: looking...
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14:34:03 <andi5> jsled: as you have taken a look at gnc-date.h... what do you think about my initial question regarding the replacement of functions taking buffers by some returning newly allocated strings?
14:35:23 <jsled> andi5: Certainly it's The Right Thing to do; I'd tend to agree with warlord, in that it's probably better to take a buffer rather than return a caller-owned string.
14:35:55 <jsled> Of course, there might be cases where the caller doesn't really know how much to alloc...
14:37:18 <andi5> why is it better to take a buffer? ... better than forgetting to free the data?
14:39:00 <andi5> i tend to treat functions taking buffers with great caution, because i never really know what they do, count my trailing zero yes/no, do with the buffer if an error occurs... well, somehow i do not like them ;-) ...
14:39:01 <jsled> the caller than has the option to stack or heap alloc the buffer.
14:39:24 <jsled> If the caller stack-allocs, then no problem.
14:39:32 <jsled> If the caller heap-allocs, it's usually a bit more clear that they need to free.
14:39:43 <jsled> At least to the reader, who sees the matching calls.
14:40:32 * jsled == slow
14:41:24 <andi5> what is the advantage of stack-allocs compared to heap-allocs?
14:41:34 <warlord> no free required
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14:42:03 <andi5> hm.... actually that is a no-issue for me ;-)
14:45:24 <warlord> ok
14:46:15 <andi5> well, i can leave everything as it is and simply g_snprintf the result of g_locale_to_utf8 into the buffer... there is no problem with that
14:49:29 <warlord> why do you need g_locale_to_utf8() here?
14:50:37 <andi5> because in the register the datecell has help function that prints a long representation of the date to the statusbar... that looks weird here, and i guess that it is in the wrong encoding (at least i hope so)
14:51:43 <warlord> hmh
14:51:49 <warlord> er.. hmm
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15:29:17 <warlord> andi5: I think you should abstract that patch a little more. In particular, the code that reads:+ (apply string-append
15:29:17 <warlord> + (map
15:29:17 <warlord> + (lambda (dir)
15:29:17 <warlord> + (string-append dir "/.libs" path-sep-str ))
15:29:17 <warlord> + gnc-module-dirs))
15:29:28 <warlord> Should probably be extracted into a simple function
15:32:39 <warlord> You also redid some white-space that probably doesn't need to be redone.
15:35:37 <andi5> maybe not, but tabs in lisp are even worse than in c...
15:36:33 <andi5> i could even pack everything into (build-path-var list item-prefix item-suffix separator prefix suffix) :)
15:37:08 <warlord> prefix suffix?
15:37:42 <andi5> this would be like " PATH=\"" ":${PATH}\""
15:37:45 <warlord> I think you could set some of those within a scheme environment so you don't have to re-set them.
15:39:21 <andi5> hm... what do you mean?
15:39:40 <warlord> Oh, just pass in "PATH" (as 'varname') and let the code do something like: (string-append varname "=\"" ... path-sep-str "${" varname "}\"")
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15:41:13 <andi5> well, but then i lose the generality to choose for every environment variable whether i want to pre- or append my directories
15:41:32 <andi5> (that could be another parameter)
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15:42:01 <warlord> Are there cases where you want to prepend some append others?
15:42:11 <andi5> no
15:43:06 <warlord> then I dont see why you need that generality. I'm just trying to reduce the amount of duplicated code.
15:43:22 <andi5> have you tested the script already?
15:43:25 <warlord> no
15:43:34 <andi5> ok, then please wait :)
15:43:51 <warlord> *nods*
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16:01:32 <jsled> hampton: fixing.
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16:03:10 <andi5> warlord: http://pastebin.ca/raw/340521
16:03:35 <andi5> make check works (except src/bin, that will not change in the near future)
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16:07:32 <warlord> looks good to me
16:09:25 * andi5 will bring it in,.... one issue less
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16:12:37 *** warlord changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. SX-cleanup has lanokded in trunk - try it out! FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a *publically-logged* channel, <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>"
16:33:11 <warlord> jsled: are you interested in getting r15452 backported?
16:42:48 <hampton> warlord: Would you update my email forwarding for hampton@gnucash.org to point to gnucash@love2code.net. Thanks.
16:42:58 <warlord> hampton: sure.
16:43:54 <warlord> done
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16:45:39 <hampton> [ot] Its been interesting watching the world outside my window today. I watched a "small" crane build a bigger crane, bigger being a 15 to 20' tall cab with an arm that extends from 60' to 200'. That then build a 300' or more flatbed truck with 24 wheels, and then lifted some humongus piece of equipment out of the power substation.
16:46:24 <warlord> Interesting!
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16:47:50 <hampton> [ot] The flatbed appears to have three drivers. One in the cab and two along the flatbed to control the 4 trucks of 6 wheels each. I can' wait to see this thing turn the corner, which is what its going to have to do.
16:48:08 <warlord> Fun!
16:49:23 <warlord> okay, backporting done.
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16:59:14 <hampton> jsled: did your sx changes affect how the code uses accounts, or was it more gui centric?
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17:10:34 <warlord> okay, i'm off to my sister's for the game.
17:10:37 <warlord> See y'all.
17:10:40 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
17:10:41 <jsled> warlord: enjoy. cheers.
17:11:21 <jsled> hampton: love2code.net, he?
17:11:22 <jsled> eh, even.
17:11:58 <hampton> That's me. :-)
17:12:29 <jsled> gncbot: tell warlord re: r15452: at the time I did the commit, I thought "no, we're all about the Future and Moving Forward". But now that you mention it, it should totally be backported.
17:12:29 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
17:12:41 <warlord-afk> Hmm... I wonder if we should change autogen.sh to just call "autoreconf -siv" ?
17:13:24 <jsled> hampton: the sx changes did not affect how the SXes (mis)use a parallel account tree, but also they were gui-related only in part.
17:14:03 <hampton> ok. I was looking for the impact on my (still outstanding) changes to remove the group data structure.
17:14:39 <jsled> The biggest change was to factor the instance generation and real-transaction-creation out of the UI files they were hiding in.
17:15:02 <jsled> hampton: ah. Well, I don't care if it's a separate AccountGroup, so long as there's a seperate tree.
17:15:18 <hampton> got it
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23:09:23 <warlord> @tell andi5 the reason src/bin/test fails "make check" is because gnucash-build-env wasn't updated to match the new gnc-test-env calling convention.
23:09:23 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
23:09:24 <gncbot> warlord: Sent 5 hours and 56 minutes ago: <jsled> re: r15452: at the time I did the commit, I thought no, we're all about the Future and Moving Forward . But now that you mention it, it should totally be backported.
23:13:59 <warlord> @tell jsled Okay, I'll backport it. It only adds some scheme code, doesn't change anything else.. and it looks perfectly safe.
23:13:59 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
23:28:20 <warlord> Whee.. Any more bugs people want to fix? ;)
23:28:35 <prock> was today the bug fix day?
23:29:33 <warlord> Well, I backported a few outstanding bugfixes..
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