2007-02-02 GnuCash IRC logs

00:04:44 <warlord> good night.
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00:27:32 <foo> warlord-afk: nicght
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04:32:39 <sishen> hi guys. src/doc/coding-style doesn't exist. However, it should be there, following the README file.
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04:45:42 <eexpress> hi, i want translate the gnucash, if the svn is the only way to edit po file? if a easy way to create a po file locate and present later?
04:48:00 <eexpress> http://i18n.ricetons.com/ can not access now.
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04:52:01 <cstim> eexpress: which language do you want to translate to?
04:52:01 <gncbot`> cstim: Sent 11 hours and 23 minutes ago: <andi5> what is your opinion about http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-31.html#T19:41:26 ? ... this poll was sponsered by gncbot
04:52:32 <eexpress> cstim: Chinese
04:53:12 <cstim> which locale? there are old versions of zh_CN and zh_TW in the 2.0.x tarballs
04:54:04 <eexpress> i had read http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation#Get_the_source_from_SVN. oo, where can i find tarball .my loale is zh_CN.utf8
04:54:53 <cstim> @tell andi5 re bugday: great idea. Saturday will probably work best for most devs. Unfortunately I don't think I can regularly be there on a sat afternoon - you know, baby and family and such.
04:54:53 <gncbot`> cstim: The operation succeeded.
04:56:17 <eexpress> GnuCash 2.0.1, ubuntu
04:56:34 <cstim> eexpress: what's the problem with running "svn checkout ..." as described on that page?
04:57:03 <cstim> eexpress: it will give you the most up-to-date source tree, with the file po/zh_CN.po so that you can directly work on that file.
04:57:17 <eexpress> i feel this is diffcult. for not skill at compile. just want operate on a po file.
04:57:53 <cstim> I didn't say anything about compile. Just run the "svn checkout ..." so that you get the zh_CN.po file at the location po/zh_CN.po.
04:58:14 <eexpress> if i checkout the po file, modify it, i can immediatelly use the po?
04:59:42 <cstim> eexpress: no, you cannot. If you want to *use* your new translation, you must compile and install the whole program.
05:00:54 <cstim> eexpress: your installed version 2.0.1 is older than the current SVN state (soon to be released as 2.0.5). You cannot mix the translation from a new version with the actual program in an older version.
05:02:15 <eexpress> cstim: ooo, i had seem some software package with some po file, and those po file can be modified locate, and use it immediatelly. ok, i will svn, and try it. thanks.
05:04:33 <cstim> eexpress: by the way, what was this ricetons.com URL above? That doesn't have anything to do with translations or gnucash, has it?
05:06:28 <eexpress> it seems just a Chinese team for i18n. web translate mode.
05:09:34 <eexpress> the svn is so slow.
05:12:48 <cstim> the po file itself can be downloaded like this http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/branches/2.0/po/zh_CN.po
05:13:15 <cstim> but for a sensible translation you would usually have to look into the source code many times, and for that you need the svn checkout.
05:20:28 <eexpress> cstim: thanks, svn is too slow, and stop for a long time, i wget the po first.
05:52:11 <sishen> configure doesn't works. sishen@sishen:~/Study/gnucash-rr$ guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require 'printf)"
05:53:00 <cstim> sishen: you mean, the check for the installed SLIB doesn't work. Did you install "slib"? Which distribution?
05:53:01 <sishen> ERROR: Unbound variable: slib:features
05:53:30 * cstim and we all *love* slib...
05:53:41 <cstim> (that was irony)
05:53:45 <sishen> yes. Debian GNU/Linux
05:54:14 <cstim> which slib version?
05:54:29 <sishen> 3a4-4
05:58:02 <cstim> there's a bug with slib 3a4 that is fixed by downgrading to slib 3a3, but it appears at gnucash startup, not at configure
05:58:18 <cstim> which gnucash do you try to compile? register-rewrite branch of SVN?
05:58:24 <sishen> yes.
05:59:01 <sishen> i can compile the version 2.0.2-2.
05:59:23 <cstim> that's trunk from r15313, which still won't work with slib3a4 (this was fixed in trunk r15428) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373809
06:00:14 <cstim> huh? configure with 2.0.2 works fine, but with register-rewrite SVN it fails at the SLIB check?
06:00:19 <cstim> that's weird.
06:01:10 <sishen> the version 2.0.2 is the debian src package. so maybe added some patch from debian developer.
06:01:33 <cstim> sishen: for running the register-rewrite SVN, you need to downgrade slib anyway, so I'd suggest you should do that first. See the bugzilla report comment#7 for instructions.
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06:24:29 <conrad> chris, hampton, jsled or warlord: gncbot has lost ops
06:24:42 <sishen> solved. The reason is the chaos of the version of guile.
06:24:53 <sishen> Both 1.6 and 1.8 is in my system.
06:29:07 <sishen> again strange problem.. config.status: error: cannot find input file: po/Makefile.in.in
06:32:03 <sishen> I think the files in register-rewrite is incomplete.
06:33:35 <cstim> sishen: po/Makefile.in.in is (well: should be) auto-generated by running intltoolize which is run from autogen.sh
06:44:20 <sishen> :( sorry. i hadn't run autogen.sh..
06:49:26 <sishen> lack the knowledge of autotools...
07:22:53 <jsled> sishen: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building
07:23:59 <jsled> @nick gncbot
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07:38:04 <cstim> are we back online?
07:38:56 <jsled> @ping
07:38:56 <gncbot> pong
07:39:00 <jsled> Seem to be. :/
07:39:31 <cstim> jsled: I didn't see your last sentences in irc, only at gnucash.org.
07:39:43 <jsled> The @nick line, or?
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07:40:06 <cstim> sishen: are you still around?
07:40:17 <cstim> yes
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08:05:48 <cstim> @ping
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08:05:48 <cstim> @ping
08:05:48 <cstim> @ping
08:05:48 <gncbot> pong
08:05:49 <gncbot> pong
08:05:50 <gncbot> pong
08:06:24 <jsled> gncbot, tell sishen I don't know what happened to src/doc/coding-style. The general convention is to follow the format of the file, if it's existing, and use something reasonably close to the existing convention for new files. :)
08:06:24 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
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08:21:13 <cstim> @ping
08:21:13 <gncbot> pong
08:21:23 * cstim did not quit IRC
08:23:09 <cstim> huh. I typed the first "cstim has not quit IRC" line 5 minutes earlier than when they appeared at http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-02-02.html#T08:05:48 . Didn't know the IRC has some form of message queueing...
08:23:24 <cstim> s/know the/know that/
08:26:01 <jsled> they don't, really. It could be the irc delivery...
08:26:29 <jsled> I didn't see it until 2 minutes before your "huh" line, and 4 minutes before my "they don't" line.
08:27:01 <jsled> (I only have hh:mm granularity on xchat timestamps, so ± 60 seconds, of course. :)
08:28:01 <jsled> gncbot is configured to flush to its logfile on each line. The pipeline from there is $(tail -f --follow=name $logfile | irc-log-htmlizer.py); The python shouldn't buffer stdin hardly at all.
08:28:01 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
08:33:31 <cstim> jsled: quite funny. Because the actual date of typing the first "cstim has not quit IRC" line was 23 minutes before the "huh" line.
08:33:51 <jsled> Ah. Looks like gimpnet is screwed up pretty majorly.
08:34:10 <jsled> Well, irc://irc.freenode.net/gnucash maintains, if this place should vanish beneath us. :)
08:46:41 <cortana> oh there is a freenode channel too
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08:55:13 <jsled> cortana: yeah, but I just redirect people here.
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09:42:03 <MrN> hi
09:43:16 <jsled> hello.
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10:02:49 <andi5> hi cstim
10:04:24 <cstim> hi
10:05:25 <andi5> there are some @notes to answer :) WRT app-utils/test... that is what i need -mms-bitfields for, will test at the weekend ; _but_: what DOS window do you mean?
10:05:47 <andi5> i have not yet seen your error in backend/file/test, maybe i see it now *compiling*
10:07:01 <andi5> do you think the window used by the batch script should go away?
10:08:37 <andi5> i mean, when i click on the gnucash icon, there is only one dos window, showing everything that would be printed to the terminal in linux too, i.e. starting with "Diese Version befindet sich..."
10:16:33 <cstim> re DOS window: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-January/019547.html
10:17:08 <cstim> yes, I mean the Window with Diese Version befindet sich...
10:17:33 <cstim> but that's certainly a lower priority. Just a cosmetic change.
10:18:11 <andi5> actually, i do not want to lose it for a few months, even after the release of 2.2.0 ...
10:18:29 <cstim> errr... but it is *ugly*
10:18:43 <andi5> depends, mine is maximized (nearly) :)
10:18:47 <andi5> it looks really goo
10:18:47 <andi5> d
10:18:59 <andi5> black on white, smooth font size
10:21:37 <cstim> Windows applications don't open dos windows. That's pretty much it.
10:21:39 <warlord> andi5: maybe a preference to disable it or hide it? ;)
10:21:49 <warlord> (JK -- I think it should go away)
10:22:04 <cstim> hehe
10:22:11 <andi5> okok
10:22:30 <andi5> but you guys will tell the users they should do this and that to see the error log
10:23:46 <andi5> cstim: PASS: test-real-data.sh and All 13 tests passed for me in backend/file/test
10:25:27 * cstim is checking again...
10:25:28 <warlord> The error log is in gnucash.trace.. Or perhaps we can redirect stderr to some output file?
10:26:02 <cstim> warlord: no; Tor's presentation explicitly said "on win32, stdout is connected to nowhere"
10:26:07 <andi5> is really everything logged to gnucash.trace? the last time i check it was missing parts (like stderr missed others)
10:26:28 <warlord> Tor?
10:26:35 <cstim> andi5: ok, backend/file is fine again. I had some extra files sitting in there.
10:26:48 <andi5> great... so only app-utils fails?
10:26:51 <warlord> no, not everything is logged to gnucash.trace.. but MOST stuff is, I think.
10:27:07 <cstim> http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-30.html#T09:21:14
10:30:27 <cstim> Does anyone read French here? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=403574
10:30:39 <cstim> (bug on QIF importing, probably)
10:32:26 <cstim> "tout débouts" means "very first try"?
10:33:30 <warlord> Looks like he tried to File -> Open a .qif file.
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10:35:09 <prock> @tell jsled Re: patch - thanks for applying it and all the feedback. I'm sifting through the book-that-is-your-reply and am putting thought into how to proceed.
10:35:09 <gncbot> prock: The operation succeeded.
10:35:20 <jsled> .
10:35:20 <gncbot> jsled: Sent just now: <prock> Re: patch - thanks for applying it and all the feedback. I'm sifting through the book-that-is-your-reply and am putting thought into how to proceed.
10:36:11 <jsled> yeah, it was a bit long.
10:36:39 <jsled> prock: I'm happy to discuss here if you like, of course.
10:37:11 <warlord> cstim: from Page 26:
10:37:13 <warlord> GUI apps normally have stdin/out/err pointing
10:37:13 <warlord> nowhere, and no way to print to the console window
10:37:13 <warlord> the were started from (if any). Redirect to a file or
10:37:13 <warlord> pipe to see printf output
10:38:01 <andi5> gnucash is special, we start it from a batch file.... well, i have to leave... see you tomorrow
10:38:08 <cstim> andi5: see you
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10:38:57 <cstim> warlord: yes, that's what I meant. I'd be fine if we say all windows debugging output *must* go to gnucash.trace, hence it must be logged by g_debug or DEBUG instead of printf.
10:40:24 <warlord> cstim: as this suggests, we can redirect stdout/stderr to a file..
10:42:26 <cstim> fine as well.
10:43:27 <warlord> cstim: that's what I would recommend. in gnucash-bin.c we can try to redirect the stdout/stderr output to some file #if G_OS_WIN32
10:43:48 <warlord> or we can do it from gnucash.bat
10:44:59 <cstim> from gnucash.bat would be better, although I don't know how to do this in win32's command line syntax
10:46:33 <warlord> Oh, right... it's DOS not Bash.. Hmm..
10:47:46 <prock> jsled: I can't really spend too much time on IRC when at work ;)
10:48:31 <jsled> prock: understood.
10:48:52 <prock> jsled: one thing that strikes me: with all the discussion about xml file versioning and the TODO item(s) added (mentioned in your comments); it makes me think that the patch isn't quite trunk worthy
10:49:22 <jsled> meh. We'll need to do something before the next release, but it's alright for the moment, I think.
10:49:43 <prock> since I've got you now and things are quiet at work for the moment...
10:50:22 <prock> should the "Enabled" label be changed to something more like "Process with SLR"?
10:51:31 <jsled> Hmm. I don't think so, though what you're suggesting does make sense.
10:51:58 <jsled> I mean, it's really: these are the normal sxes. These are the SXes for projection. Maybe in the future, these are the SXes for [some other purpose].
10:52:33 <jsled> I don't think it matters too much. When that future thing comes along, it'll need to add the more interesting grouping.
10:52:55 <warlord> Maybe we want a flag instead of a boolean?
10:53:01 <prock> you removed my changes to gnc_sx_get_instances (the GList argument).. I had added this to make it easier for the report to interface send gnc_sx_get_instances ... I had planned on putting together a list of SXes and then getting the instances to project via gnc_sx_get_instances(selected_sxes, date_to_report_out_to)
10:53:28 * warlord was thinking last night about QObject properties and GNCValue for object data..
10:53:52 <jsled> prock: I see. Indeed, that does make it harder for you.
10:54:07 <jsled> But I don't think every caller needs to present the list to the API.
10:54:08 <prock> re: flags vs boolean - over my head atm I just did what was currently used for SX options
10:55:15 <prock> jsled: I'll jump that bridge later then... just wanted to confer my intentions
10:55:20 * jsled nods
10:56:07 <jsled> warlord: I don't know what a "GncValue" is...
10:56:32 <jsled> that is, I don't know why we'd need an intermediate abstraction, rather than just creating/using new GValue sub-types.
10:56:35 <warlord> GNCValue would be a subclass of GValue that adds GNC-specific data types.
10:57:56 <warlord> GValue is just a union of data storage. I was thinking of doing something similar for GNCValue, subclassing GValue.
10:58:08 <warlord> For, e.g., gnc_numeric et al.
11:05:36 <jsled> prock: fwiw, it might be better to have that list manintenance code in src/engine/ (or at least src/app-utils/), rather than in the callers.
11:05:50 <jsled> prock: specifically the "get the {en,dis}able sublist from the overall sx list"
11:06:32 <jsled> I totally violate encapsulation of the GncSxInstanceModel all over the place, but we should try to maintain it for the engine especially.
11:06:45 <jsled> (and I really should fix it for the sx instance model, too...)
11:09:37 <warlord> jsled: is there an api to list all the properties on a GObject?
11:09:53 <jsled> warlord: I'm not sure ... /me fires up devhelp.
11:10:04 <prock> jsled: ack, added to my TODO
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11:10:48 <jsled> prock: also, for the report ... try to follow keep separate the "generation of the report data" and the "iterate over that data to display results".
11:11:16 <jsled> It'll be nice if the report is really just iterate+display, and everything else is able to be in UI-indep. stuff.
11:14:03 <jsled> warlord: sure. g_object_{class,interface}_list_properties
11:14:36 <jsled> returns GParamSpec**, takes an int* out-param of for the size of the array.
11:15:22 <jsled> There's also some sort of GParamSpecPool stuff; unclear how it relates.
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11:23:23 <prock> jsled: I had intended to implement the data generation within app-utils/engire and just have the report do the outputing of this data. Is this what you mean?
11:23:31 <prock> s/engire/engine/g
11:24:16 <jsled> yeah, that's about right. We don't have a good convention about what parts of the system go into engine vs. {app,core}-utils ...
11:24:38 <jsled> I think core-utils is really gnc-generic stuff (glib extensions, expression parser) whereas app-utils is gnc-specific, but general-purpose stuff.
11:25:05 <jsled> s/general-purpose/not-necessary-gui/
11:25:52 <jsled> We'll probably need to revise that as we outgrow a single app-utils directory (or core-utils, for that matter).
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11:58:37 <warlord> jsled: but that lists the properties of a GObjectClass, not a GObject...
12:00:15 <warlord> @tell cstim Here's how you redirect stdout in a batch shell: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/150767
12:00:15 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
12:02:05 <warlord> @tell cstim google shows another link that explains to use > for stdout and 2> for stderr: http://supportweb.cs.bham.ac.uk/documentation/tutorials/docsystem/build/tutorials/win32scripting/win32scripting.html
12:02:05 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
12:02:22 <jsled> warlord: It appears, and I'm only just looking at this stuff for the first time, really, that properties are installed on the class, but apply to the instance.
12:03:24 <warlord> So properties aren't 'random'? The application has to know about them apriori?
12:03:54 <jsled> you can probably dynamically register them.
12:03:58 <warlord> I thought properties were arbitrary key-value pairs on the object?
12:04:23 <jsled> No, they're not really arbitrary.
12:06:27 <warlord> Oh. Fooey. Oh well, then it doesn't solve the problem I thought it would.
12:06:32 <jsled> what's that?
12:06:56 <jsled> I mean, what's the problem?
12:09:24 <warlord> Well, I was thinking that we could solve the backwards compatibility problem by having all the data be GObject properties.. Then the XML generator performs GOject->XML by iterating over all the properties and storing the GncValue.. And XML->GObject reads the XML and stores each item in a GObject Property. Then we never lose data and never have to worry about datafile compatibility or data loss.
12:11:22 <warlord> But if the properties aren't arbitrary then we can't do this.. Because version x wouldn't know about new properties added in version x+1.
12:13:45 <jsled> Yeah. But you can only do it literally anyways. You have to treat the XML you read in as an XML node. You don't even really know enough to data-type it appropriately. You certainly can't switch the backend.
12:14:51 <warlord> Hmm..
12:16:00 <warlord> yeah, I suppose that's true.. I guess we WOULD have to just store the XmlNode of any unknown nodes and remember to save them out again later..
12:17:19 <warlord> damn. And here I was thinking that I was being so inventive. Of course you need to know the data-type of the node in order to understand how to process it. Blah.
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13:08:57 <prock> jsled: is it possible to grey out/italicize an item on the list of SX's in the SX list (to show it as disabled)?
13:10:18 <jsled> prock: Maybe. Italics don't exactly imply disabled; being greyed out does. I think a checkbox column is more clear.
13:10:36 <prock> ok
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13:43:23 <rtobi> hallo zusammen
13:44:29 <jsled> hello
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13:52:47 <warlord> @op
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14:42:16 <prock> jsled: no glade file for sx list right? it's drawn manually in src/gnome/gnc-sx-list-tree-model-adapter.c?
14:42:48 <jsled> no, the plugin page is taken out of a dialog in the sx glade file.
14:43:07 <jsled> Unless you mean for the treeView itself...
14:44:39 <jsled> ...where the possible columns are defined in gnc-sx-list-tree-model-adapter.c, and the displayed columns in gnc-plugin-page-sx-list.c
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16:58:20 <hampton> Why can't electricians use more circuit breakers? :-( I've got 6 outlets all on the same 15A circuit.
16:58:20 <gncbot> hampton: Sent 23 hours and 30 minutes ago: <andi5> what is your opinion about http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-31.html#T19:41:26 ? ... this poll was sponsered by gncbot
16:58:53 <hampton> bug day works for me.
16:59:33 <hampton> @tall andi5 bug day works for me.
16:59:33 <gncbot> hampton: Error: "tall" is not a valid command.
16:59:46 <hampton> @tell tall tales
16:59:46 <gncbot> hampton: The operation succeeded.
17:00:00 <hampton> @tell andi5 bug day works for me.
17:00:00 <gncbot> hampton: The operation succeeded.
17:00:09 *** jsled is now known as tall
17:00:11 <tall> Hi!
17:00:11 <gncbot> tall: Sent just now: <hampton> tales
17:00:17 <tall> tails?
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17:00:23 <hampton> lol
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21:23:53 <prock> jsled: why does _gnc_sx_instance_event_handler need to ignore non-enabled sxes?
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21:45:32 <prock> nvrmind I'll reply to your email.
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