2007-01-23 GnuCash IRC logs
00:41:10 *** slicslak has quit IRC
00:42:13 *** slicslak has joined #gnucash
02:38:56 *** _gunni_ has joined #gnucash
02:47:04 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
02:59:39 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
02:59:44 *** _gunni_ has quit IRC
03:09:39 *** ceplma has joined #gnucash
03:20:25 *** RallyU has quit IRC
03:24:03 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
03:43:17 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
04:50:35 *** cortana has quit IRC
05:02:38 *** RallyU has quit IRC
07:27:46 *** kielein has joined #gnucash
07:58:44 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
08:00:51 *** prock_ has joined #gnucash
08:09:48 *** prock has quit IRC
08:44:08 *** twunder has quit IRC
08:51:46 *** hampton|away is now known as hampton
08:57:09 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
08:57:09 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
08:57:42 <cstim> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393185 I wonder who told us to change RUB -> RUR in the first place.
08:59:21 *** ceplma has quit IRC
08:59:22 <warlord> *sighs*
09:00:22 *** prock_ is now known as prock
09:00:43 <cstim> (cough) I wonder who told *me* to change that (see r7574)
09:01:11 <warlord> hehehe...
09:01:14 <warlord> Is there not a bug#?
09:01:47 <cstim> no. Maybe an email, back then in 2002-11-30 ?
09:03:52 <cstim> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.apps.gnucash.devel/7988/match=rub
09:05:29 <warlord> I dont see anything from November or October 2002.
09:05:59 <cstim> I don't see anything either.
09:11:10 <warlord> I dont see any closed bugs, either.
09:13:27 *** ceplma has joined #gnucash
09:15:46 <cstim> must haven been in irc... where are the logs :-)
09:16:23 <warlord> Heh
09:27:27 *** wizkid238_ has joined #gnucash
09:31:04 <cstim> hm... the numerical currency code is not so clear. our current scm-file claims "RUR" "810", http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/currency_table.html claims "810" for the correct "RUB" as well, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 claims "RUB" "634" instead.
09:32:34 <cstim> oh, the ubc.ca page is wrong. "RUB" "643" (not 634) is correct.
09:36:34 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
09:38:54 <warlord> OKay..
09:44:50 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
09:44:50 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
09:45:13 <cstim> hi andi5
09:45:23 <andi5> hiho cstim
09:50:28 <warlord> hiya andi5
09:50:50 <warlord> cstim: so what's this about not being able to build win32 packages once you start your new job?
09:50:53 <andi5> cstim: so you switch like iso-4217, but the other way around? :)
09:52:32 <warlord> andi5: huh? EParse..
09:53:03 <cstim> warlord: In the current job I have the win32 computer and some allowed spare time to do it. In the new job I might not have both again. Also, in the new job I think I'll be challenged enough so that my gnucash addiction must be reduced...
09:53:21 <warlord> :(
09:53:35 <warlord> Well, I'm glad you have the new job, but sad to see you go.
09:53:58 <andi5> warlord: EACCESS ;-) .... i meant the RUB->RUR change... wikipedia says that RUR was old, RUB is new (i do not know when they changed this)
09:54:17 <cstim> andi5: keep reading. the change was in 1998.
09:55:14 <warlord> And of course Wikipedia is ALWAYS right.. ;)
09:55:17 <andi5> cstim: oh, i was reading the english version
09:55:17 <cstim> andi5: what was your question? gnucash erroneously used the old one. I changed it to the new one.
09:55:29 <cstim> I was referring to the english version as well.
09:55:46 <cstim> warlord: of course. Especially if I've changed the page myself recently :-)
09:56:14 <warlord> http://www.xe.com/iso4217.htm claims it's RUB
09:56:45 <cstim> yes, that's why r15421 changed RUR -> RUB.
09:57:26 <andi5> cstim: yes, i was referring to the old commit (r7574)... i am certain the recent change is correct :)
09:57:57 <warlord> andi5: AHHH...
09:57:58 <cstim> ahhh.
09:58:00 <warlord> Oka.
09:58:18 <andi5> hehe :)
09:58:27 <cstim> I have no idea what drove me to r7574 :-/ maybe something in my drink?
09:58:40 <prock> I don't suppose somebody who knows more about scheme than myself (i.e. knows anything about scheme) would be interested in taking a look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=405985 (gnucash bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373809) and making a case that could be sent to TB describing why this is a bug with Debian's slib package?
10:04:08 <cstim> prock: the backtrace suggests you have (at least) one report window open in gnucash, namely an "income piechart"?
10:04:33 <prock> no, that bt is from when I'm starting gnucash, even with --nofile
10:05:12 <cstim> even with --nofile? oops.
10:05:45 * cstim wonders whether the file ~/.gnucash/saved-reports-2.0 is being read in that case.
10:06:00 <cstim> Even if you rename the saved-reports file?
10:06:30 <andi5> arrgh... so nobody really checked whether this is an slib bug? ... i mean, i can reproduce it (just update again), maybe i should start trying to fix it ;)
10:08:12 <prock> I get that even if I move .gnucash out of the way and start with --nofile
10:13:59 <cstim> ok ok. Seems to be triggered by gnc:define-report in report.scm, maybe even from the (define (blank-report) ... ?? No further idea from here.
10:14:50 <cstim> what does a "rtd argument" refers to, in scheme/slib?
10:17:54 <cstim> BTW I've upgraded my home computer to opensuse10.2. This went quite smooth.
10:18:35 <cstim> (However, I still cannot reproduce any of these spontaneous crashes when clicking on Online Banking, even with opensuse's default gnucash/aqbanking versions and no aqbanking setup available.)
10:19:46 <andi5> note http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2006-November/019152.html ... i guess i will start from there
10:21:04 <cstim> ok
10:23:06 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
10:47:22 *** andi5 has quit IRC
10:49:49 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
10:49:50 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
10:52:44 *** wizkid238_ is now known as wizkid238
11:06:22 <warlord> cstim, andi5: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399816
11:08:51 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:09:10 <andi5> seems like openssl is missing in PATH in the gnucash script
11:09:28 <andi5> i will fix that... soon
11:10:20 <cstim> andi5: but especially aqbanking/bin has been added by *you* to PATH. I wonder why the reporter still needed to copy it to bin...
11:10:39 *** jpeac1 has joined #gnucash
11:10:51 *** jpeac1 has left #gnucash
11:11:17 <andi5> because he did not include the lines in his msys environment, i guess
11:16:35 *** twunder has quit IRC
11:20:29 <andi5> well, and i did not work properly... yeah, you are right ;-)
11:39:33 <andi5> ok, my build system is trashed somehow and i do not have the time to fix it now... see you
11:39:50 *** andi5 has quit IRC
11:57:53 *** roman3x has joined #gnucash
12:06:14 *** cstim has quit IRC
12:08:00 <warlord> EEP!
12:08:07 <warlord> oops, wrong window
12:13:37 *** slicslak has quit IRC
12:14:18 *** slicslak has joined #gnucash
12:36:36 *** i10neorg has joined #gnucash
12:38:39 <i10neorg> There's a security I'd like to track that is list at Yahoo as being "Other OTC" (Over The Counter) (instead of NASDAQ, AMEX, etc.)
12:39:11 <i10neorg> Err... Nevermind!
12:40:47 <i10neorg> (You can enter a new value in addition to selecting from the dropdown when entering Type information in the Security Information window.)
13:32:46 *** |gunni| has joined #gnucash
13:41:10 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
13:41:13 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
13:57:59 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
14:00:13 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
14:17:15 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
14:17:15 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
14:18:48 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:21:49 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
14:38:41 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
14:56:04 *** kielein has quit IRC
14:58:08 *** i10neorg has quit IRC
15:18:10 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
15:18:10 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
15:19:03 <andi5> cstim: rehi
15:19:09 <cstim> I need a suggestion for some wording...
15:19:12 <cstim> hi andi5
15:20:02 <cstim> Each importer modules of aqbanking gives the option to choose one out of several "profiles", i.e. particular modifications that are applied to the importing input.
15:20:24 <cstim> I want to add a choice option to gnucash to choose these "profiles" but I'm unhappy with that word.
15:21:31 <andi5> filter sets? ;-)
15:21:35 <cstim> By default, the users won't touch these settings and will use the profile named "default", but if they deal e.g. with MT940 files from the Dutch Amro bank, they will have to choose the profile "Amro"
15:21:50 <cstim> "filter"? maybe
15:22:18 <cstim> for sure better than "profile"
15:23:08 <cstim> For importing CSV data, the "profile" would be the place that specifies the mapping of CSV columns to aqbanking/gnucash data fields. That's more than a filter.
15:23:38 <andi5> rule set?
15:24:28 <andi5> hm... well, i do not know
15:24:49 <cstim> format
15:25:31 <cstim> User can import CSV with the "default format", or some "T-Online format", or MT940 with "Amro format".
15:25:44 <cstim> andi5: does that sound understandable?
15:25:49 <andi5> cstim: i have another question... what do you think about adding parameters to inst.sh? i would like at least ... --disable-aqbanking, --skip svnup, --disable-debug (strip), --disable-opt (-O0)
15:26:01 <andi5> sounds reasonable
15:26:35 <andi5> oh, if inst.sh succeeds, these parameters are written to some file, so that dist.sh can make use of them (not include aqbanking, e.g.)
15:26:57 <cstim> re install.sh: Since you have to modify custom.sh anyway, I would rather suggest you should have these as configuration variables in custom.sh
15:27:21 <cstim> I wouldn't like cmdline parameters to install.sh that much.
15:28:35 <andi5> hm, ok... i will implement them using custom.sh then
15:28:38 <cstim> what's the problem with aqbanking`
15:28:39 <cstim> ?
15:28:55 <andi5> there is no problem, it just takes plain long to compile .)
15:29:05 <andi5> i know what you are going to say ;-)
15:29:12 <cstim> shoot. Maia doesn't sleep but instead wants to scream.
15:29:18 <andi5> niiice
15:32:11 * cstim put the passifier back into Maia's bed
15:36:27 <cstim> andi5: however, guile, libgsf, goffice also takes very very long to compile. But once you're done, you won't have to compile it again.
15:36:45 <cstim> andi5: the same applies to gwenhywfar/aqbanking, which are both faster than, say, goffice.
15:37:03 <cstim> That's why I would prefer to have them enabled by default.
15:37:23 <andi5> well, gnucash will run without aqbanking, you know :) .... and i do not suggest to change the default
15:38:15 <andi5> cstim: hey, i cannot even estimate the work-load you have done to get aqbanking to work, so please do not take that personally :-)
15:39:08 <andi5> i have thought several times about patching goffice to compile less, but .... we patch enough
15:40:48 <andi5> cstim: oh, feel free to test gnucash on windows with all sorts of umlauts and spaces... you only need to take care of a glade/bonoboui bug that makes gnucash crash on glade files in directories with non-ascii names
15:41:52 <andi5> oh, and i always need to convert gnucash.bat to cp850 to make it work.... *grrrr*
15:44:29 <cstim> cp850?
15:44:46 <cstim> oh, you mean the encoding in case the path names are non-ascii
15:44:58 <andi5> yes
15:45:39 <andi5> do you think you can patch gnucash.iss.in to make that conversion ... somehow? :)
15:46:00 <andi5> (not necessarily to cp850, of course)
15:48:27 <cstim> no idea how encoding changes are available in gnucash.iss
15:48:30 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
15:50:18 <cstim> do you know which encoding gnucash.bat is written by the installer?
15:51:04 * andi5 runs dist.sh and installs
15:54:18 *** twunder has quit IRC
15:58:52 <warlord> Eh, people just shouldn't install into non-ascii paths. ;)
15:59:35 <andi5> warlord: why the heck do people need more than 127 characters at all....
15:59:43 <warlord> I dont know..
15:59:59 <warlord> Everyone should just learn English ;)
16:00:04 <cstim> and by the way, 640 KB are really enough.
16:00:31 <andi5> is that RAM?
16:00:48 <cstim> of course. Bill said so.
16:01:00 <andi5> who is bill? ;-)
16:01:33 * cstim is off to bed.
16:01:50 <andi5> bye cstim
16:02:10 <cstim> (Maia doesn't sleep well these days. /me need to plan ahead with sleeping.)
16:04:45 <prock> is gnucash doxygenized anywhere?
16:05:04 *** andi5 has quit IRC
16:05:33 <cstim> http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/
16:05:48 <warlord> se ya cstim
16:06:02 <prock> ntx
16:06:04 <prock> tnx
16:07:12 *** cstim has quit IRC
16:22:22 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
16:42:57 *** twunder has quit IRC
17:28:38 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
18:42:41 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
19:13:30 *** sjc has quit IRC
19:26:03 *** goflyapig has joined #gnucash
19:29:09 <goflyapig> Hiya. I'm new to gnucash (and accounting in general), and I'm not sure I'm understanding how the "Equity" account is supposed to work. I thought it was supposed to be a running tally of my assets less my liabilities, but apparently it's not, because the value is never updated. What's it for?
19:38:42 <warlord> It's used for startup and periodic resync. For running totals run a Balance Sheet.
19:43:06 <goflyapig> By startup you mean the opening balances? And what do you mean by "periodic resync"?
19:45:36 <warlord> Yes.
19:45:45 <warlord> "Book Closing"
20:03:39 *** ErKa has quit IRC
20:13:14 <jsled> goflyapig: There's the Equity account, different from the concept and current-running-value of "equity".
20:56:46 <warlord> hey, jsled . How's CA?
20:57:05 *** roman3x has quit IRC
20:57:13 <warlord> FYI, my next CA Trip is 2/24-3/4
20:57:30 <jsled> warlord: It's pretty good. Weather's nice. Good to see people.
20:57:36 <jsled> Too many meetings today, though.
20:57:55 <jsled> (and too many problems with the production website, but that's not because I'm out here, I don't think. :)
20:58:02 <warlord> Hehe!
21:07:56 <prock> is it necessary to keep the .log and .xac files around?
21:08:06 <warlord> no.
21:08:16 <warlord> gnucash should autodelete them for you.
21:08:41 <prock> I'm just checking in my files to a local SVN repo and need to know what should be versioned
21:10:46 <warlord> just your main file...
21:10:49 <warlord> And ~/.gnucash
21:11:18 <prock> should I worry about .gnucash getting broken but using trunk gnucash on occation?
21:11:26 <warlord> Maybe
21:11:32 <prock> so yes
21:12:42 <prock> is .gnucash compatible between OS's?
21:16:19 <warlord> it should be.
21:17:22 <prock> is my xml file only changed during a save? If I make a copy of the .xml while gnucash is open will the .xml be valid still?
21:17:33 <prock> (i.e. in a good state)?
21:17:46 <warlord> Your XML is only touched when you save.
21:22:50 <prock> that's interesting, the .gnucash is only updated when I quit... shouldn't it also be stored when I save?
21:28:02 <warlord> No.
21:41:40 <jsled> If you File > Save before you quit, sure.
21:41:44 <jsled> But not if you don't ask.
21:50:43 <prock> file > save of cash.xml did not update .gnucash/books/cash.xml
21:50:53 <prock> not a big deal just not what I expected.
21:51:35 <prock> btw I'm yet to say it but gnucash is great and I really appreciate all the hard work you guys do on it =)
21:53:17 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
21:55:09 *** goflyapig has quit IRC
22:32:40 *** twunder has quit IRC
23:06:40 *** BrianHV has joined #gnucash
23:07:25 <BrianHV> is there a means by which I may quickly change a large number of transactions to a different account?
23:08:12 <warlord> BrianHV: if you want all the transactions in one account to move into another account, you can reparent the to-be-deleted account under to to-be-moved-into account, and then delete the to-be-deleted-account..
23:08:24 <warlord> GnuCash will ask you if you want to move the transactions, and you should answer "yes"
23:09:19 <BrianHV> unfortunately, I don't want them all to be moved
23:10:25 <BrianHV> they all have the same description, so they're easy to search for, but they're a subset of this account
23:11:58 <warlord> There's no way to operate on multiple splits at once.
23:14:09 <BrianHV> oh well. creative copy/paste/down-arrow patterns made it reasonably quick.
23:14:16 <warlord> Okay.
23:20:04 <BrianHV> hm... another question I've been meaning to ask about is whether there's formal documentation of the file format
23:20:11 <warlord> Nope.
23:20:17 <BrianHV> it looks pretty easy to figure out, but I don't want to risk confusing gnucash if I can avoid it
23:20:44 <warlord> We don't support manualy manipulation of the data file.
23:20:52 <warlord> er, manual manipulation.
23:21:01 <BrianHV> k then. :)
23:21:16 * BrianHV wishes he knew lisp-like languages
23:21:54 *** fen has joined #gnucash
23:22:56 <fen> hi, can anyone here recommend an open source finance package that is web based?
23:23:18 <fen> or even a web based addon for gnucash
23:24:11 <BrianHV> heh. that's actually why I was just asking about the gnucash file format...
23:24:11 <fen> what roll your own?
23:24:11 <BrianHV> I was going to try, but warlord has discouraged me
23:24:25 <fen> that bad ey?
23:24:25 <warlord> fen: SQL-Ledger?
23:24:52 <fen> warlord would that be suitable for personal finance managment?
23:27:12 <jsled> BrianHV: the data file isn't XML; http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk/src/doc/xml/gnucash-v2.rnc is a non-normative, mostly complete schema, if it helps
23:27:25 <jsled> Er. s/isn't XML/isn't lisp/
23:27:43 <jsled> but you know that ...
23:28:04 <warlord> fen: no clue
23:28:22 <warlord> fen: probably not. but why would you want a web-based enterprise-level application for personal finance?
23:28:47 <BrianHV> jsled: right, but warlord said that manual manipulation isn't supported. I figured that I would therefore have to manipulate it through the gnucash api, if at all
23:28:58 <jsled> ah. Write C, then. :)
23:29:18 <BrianHV> is the file manipulation in C?
23:29:32 <jsled> As a simple way to get started, just hack out the "gui init" part at the bottom of gnucash-bin.c, and add in your stuff. It's non-trivial, but...
23:30:22 <jsled> Most of the app is in C, including the data-file loading, yes.
23:30:22 <BrianHV> hm. might be interesting to try
23:30:23 <warlord> BrianHV: there's a C API and a Scheme API.
23:30:41 <warlord> jsled: Although I dont think there's a LOAD API that doesn't involve gtk.
23:31:11 <jsled> that's probably true. I wonder if any of the tests exercise file loading.
23:31:17 <jsled> I think they ... might, actually.
23:32:40 <jsled> Yeah. src/backend/file/test/test-load-xml2.c:test_load_file
23:33:07 <warlord> Does it exercise the full QOF session load?
23:33:35 <jsled> It even then calls primitive engine api to make sure the account groups' book is the book it just loaded
23:33:37 <warlord> and is the API it uses exported to scheme?
23:33:41 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/backend/file/test/test-load-xml2.c
23:35:08 <jsled> warlord: It looks like it does some of the qof magic; I don't think it's exported to scheme.
23:35:54 <warlord> *nods* IIRC the only scheme-exported load-file API requires the GTK File Chooser dialog.
23:36:10 <fen> oo i think i may have found something that fits.
23:36:17 <fen> http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpfin/
23:38:04 <jsled> Hmmm. Web based app with a website (<http://www.phpfin.com/>) that doesn't work. :)
23:38:21 <warlord> Hehe.
23:39:47 <fen> jsled, yeah thats the reason i looked its activity in sourceforge project stats, its had activity in 2007, so im sure the website will be fixed sooner or later.
23:40:07 <fen> last release was november
23:42:39 <fen> having said that it appears there are issues with php5, so thats out
23:42:52 <warlord> Heh.
23:43:09 <warlord> I dont understand why you want all the issues of setting up (and securing!) a WebApp for a PERSONAL finance system.
23:43:38 <jsled> cause it's easy to run a personal webserver.
23:44:17 <jsled> I run squirrelmail, a wiki and a php mpd client behind the firewall; I can vpn/ssh-tunnel in as need be.
23:44:32 <fen> web based apps enable access from any web enabled location, and i'm more likely to record my daily transactions if i can do it soon after i make them.
23:44:46 <fen> it has its advantages
23:45:02 <fen> especially for budgeting
23:45:23 <warlord> I just run gnucash on my laptop; since I carry my laptop with me it's always there. no web access necessary, and I can even work on my finances at 35,000 feet!
23:46:21 <fen> my 'laptop' has a total battery life of 45 seconds, so thats not exactly an option for me.
23:47:01 <fen> and i currently can't afford to replace it.. hence the need to budget..
23:47:11 <warlord> Heh
23:50:35 <elb> I had gnucash on my laptop, but I moved it to my desktop, so I could use it when I didn't have my laptop with me
23:51:14 <elb> I also wasn't real keen on carrying my finances around with me where they could escape into the wild ;-)
23:51:28 <elb> though I put that stuff on an encrypted loopback disk, so I wasn't *too* worried
23:54:02 <fen> are there any efforts happening to port gnucash to win32?
23:54:10 <warlord> elb: that's why encfs is for. ;)
23:54:19 <warlord> fen: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows
23:54:52 <elb> I didn't use encfs, I used encrypted loopback
23:55:44 <warlord> elb: my problem with ELB (hmm, interesting acronym) is that you have to allocate the full size ahead of time. EncFS will grow or shrink as you add/remove files.
23:56:04 <elb> yeah ... but I just made a 256MB disk
23:56:18 <elb> all it has on it is financial data
23:56:31 <elb> if I have 256MB of financial data, I'll use my finances to buy a bigger disk
23:56:32 <elb> ;-)
23:56:33 <warlord> I think 256M is enough.
23:56:37 <jsled> heh
23:57:24 <warlord> (famous last words)
23:58:14 <jsled> Huh. I'd not seen encfs before
23:58:15 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
23:58:16 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
23:59:27 * jsled updates the FAQ
23:59:37 <fen> the company i work for employing 60 people has a 225mb myob data file, but being myob its almost certainly bloated.
00:41:10 *** slicslak has quit IRC
00:42:13 *** slicslak has joined #gnucash
02:38:56 *** _gunni_ has joined #gnucash
02:47:04 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
02:59:39 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
02:59:44 *** _gunni_ has quit IRC
03:09:39 *** ceplma has joined #gnucash
03:20:25 *** RallyU has quit IRC
03:24:03 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
03:43:17 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
04:50:35 *** cortana has quit IRC
05:02:38 *** RallyU has quit IRC
07:27:46 *** kielein has joined #gnucash
07:58:44 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
08:00:51 *** prock_ has joined #gnucash
08:09:48 *** prock has quit IRC
08:44:08 *** twunder has quit IRC
08:51:46 *** hampton|away is now known as hampton
08:57:09 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
08:57:09 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
08:57:42 <cstim> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393185 I wonder who told us to change RUB -> RUR in the first place.
08:59:21 *** ceplma has quit IRC
08:59:22 <warlord> *sighs*
09:00:22 *** prock_ is now known as prock
09:00:43 <cstim> (cough) I wonder who told *me* to change that (see r7574)
09:01:11 <warlord> hehehe...
09:01:14 <warlord> Is there not a bug#?
09:01:47 <cstim> no. Maybe an email, back then in 2002-11-30 ?
09:03:52 <cstim> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.apps.gnucash.devel/7988/match=rub
09:05:29 <warlord> I dont see anything from November or October 2002.
09:05:59 <cstim> I don't see anything either.
09:11:10 <warlord> I dont see any closed bugs, either.
09:13:27 *** ceplma has joined #gnucash
09:15:46 <cstim> must haven been in irc... where are the logs :-)
09:16:23 <warlord> Heh
09:27:27 *** wizkid238_ has joined #gnucash
09:31:04 <cstim> hm... the numerical currency code is not so clear. our current scm-file claims "RUR" "810", http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/currency_table.html claims "810" for the correct "RUB" as well, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 claims "RUB" "634" instead.
09:32:34 <cstim> oh, the ubc.ca page is wrong. "RUB" "643" (not 634) is correct.
09:36:34 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
09:38:54 <warlord> OKay..
09:44:50 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
09:44:50 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
09:45:13 <cstim> hi andi5
09:45:23 <andi5> hiho cstim
09:50:28 <warlord> hiya andi5
09:50:50 <warlord> cstim: so what's this about not being able to build win32 packages once you start your new job?
09:50:53 <andi5> cstim: so you switch like iso-4217, but the other way around? :)
09:52:32 <warlord> andi5: huh? EParse..
09:53:03 <cstim> warlord: In the current job I have the win32 computer and some allowed spare time to do it. In the new job I might not have both again. Also, in the new job I think I'll be challenged enough so that my gnucash addiction must be reduced...
09:53:21 <warlord> :(
09:53:35 <warlord> Well, I'm glad you have the new job, but sad to see you go.
09:53:58 <andi5> warlord: EACCESS ;-) .... i meant the RUB->RUR change... wikipedia says that RUR was old, RUB is new (i do not know when they changed this)
09:54:17 <cstim> andi5: keep reading. the change was in 1998.
09:55:14 <warlord> And of course Wikipedia is ALWAYS right.. ;)
09:55:17 <andi5> cstim: oh, i was reading the english version
09:55:17 <cstim> andi5: what was your question? gnucash erroneously used the old one. I changed it to the new one.
09:55:29 <cstim> I was referring to the english version as well.
09:55:46 <cstim> warlord: of course. Especially if I've changed the page myself recently :-)
09:56:14 <warlord> http://www.xe.com/iso4217.htm claims it's RUB
09:56:45 <cstim> yes, that's why r15421 changed RUR -> RUB.
09:57:26 <andi5> cstim: yes, i was referring to the old commit (r7574)... i am certain the recent change is correct :)
09:57:57 <warlord> andi5: AHHH...
09:57:58 <cstim> ahhh.
09:58:00 <warlord> Oka.
09:58:18 <andi5> hehe :)
09:58:27 <cstim> I have no idea what drove me to r7574 :-/ maybe something in my drink?
09:58:40 <prock> I don't suppose somebody who knows more about scheme than myself (i.e. knows anything about scheme) would be interested in taking a look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=405985 (gnucash bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373809) and making a case that could be sent to TB describing why this is a bug with Debian's slib package?
10:04:08 <cstim> prock: the backtrace suggests you have (at least) one report window open in gnucash, namely an "income piechart"?
10:04:33 <prock> no, that bt is from when I'm starting gnucash, even with --nofile
10:05:12 <cstim> even with --nofile? oops.
10:05:45 * cstim wonders whether the file ~/.gnucash/saved-reports-2.0 is being read in that case.
10:06:00 <cstim> Even if you rename the saved-reports file?
10:06:30 <andi5> arrgh... so nobody really checked whether this is an slib bug? ... i mean, i can reproduce it (just update again), maybe i should start trying to fix it ;)
10:08:12 <prock> I get that even if I move .gnucash out of the way and start with --nofile
10:13:59 <cstim> ok ok. Seems to be triggered by gnc:define-report in report.scm, maybe even from the (define (blank-report) ... ?? No further idea from here.
10:14:50 <cstim> what does a "rtd argument" refers to, in scheme/slib?
10:17:54 <cstim> BTW I've upgraded my home computer to opensuse10.2. This went quite smooth.
10:18:35 <cstim> (However, I still cannot reproduce any of these spontaneous crashes when clicking on Online Banking, even with opensuse's default gnucash/aqbanking versions and no aqbanking setup available.)
10:19:46 <andi5> note http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2006-November/019152.html ... i guess i will start from there
10:21:04 <cstim> ok
10:23:06 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
10:47:22 *** andi5 has quit IRC
10:49:49 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
10:49:50 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
10:52:44 *** wizkid238_ is now known as wizkid238
11:06:22 <warlord> cstim, andi5: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399816
11:08:51 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:09:10 <andi5> seems like openssl is missing in PATH in the gnucash script
11:09:28 <andi5> i will fix that... soon
11:10:20 <cstim> andi5: but especially aqbanking/bin has been added by *you* to PATH. I wonder why the reporter still needed to copy it to bin...
11:10:39 *** jpeac1 has joined #gnucash
11:10:51 *** jpeac1 has left #gnucash
11:11:17 <andi5> because he did not include the lines in his msys environment, i guess
11:16:35 *** twunder has quit IRC
11:20:29 <andi5> well, and i did not work properly... yeah, you are right ;-)
11:39:33 <andi5> ok, my build system is trashed somehow and i do not have the time to fix it now... see you
11:39:50 *** andi5 has quit IRC
11:57:53 *** roman3x has joined #gnucash
12:06:14 *** cstim has quit IRC
12:08:00 <warlord> EEP!
12:08:07 <warlord> oops, wrong window
12:13:37 *** slicslak has quit IRC
12:14:18 *** slicslak has joined #gnucash
12:36:36 *** i10neorg has joined #gnucash
12:38:39 <i10neorg> There's a security I'd like to track that is list at Yahoo as being "Other OTC" (Over The Counter) (instead of NASDAQ, AMEX, etc.)
12:39:11 <i10neorg> Err... Nevermind!
12:40:47 <i10neorg> (You can enter a new value in addition to selecting from the dropdown when entering Type information in the Security Information window.)
13:32:46 *** |gunni| has joined #gnucash
13:41:10 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
13:41:13 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
13:57:59 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
14:00:13 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
14:17:15 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
14:17:15 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
14:18:48 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:21:49 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
14:38:41 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
14:56:04 *** kielein has quit IRC
14:58:08 *** i10neorg has quit IRC
15:18:10 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
15:18:10 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
15:19:03 <andi5> cstim: rehi
15:19:09 <cstim> I need a suggestion for some wording...
15:19:12 <cstim> hi andi5
15:20:02 <cstim> Each importer modules of aqbanking gives the option to choose one out of several "profiles", i.e. particular modifications that are applied to the importing input.
15:20:24 <cstim> I want to add a choice option to gnucash to choose these "profiles" but I'm unhappy with that word.
15:21:31 <andi5> filter sets? ;-)
15:21:35 <cstim> By default, the users won't touch these settings and will use the profile named "default", but if they deal e.g. with MT940 files from the Dutch Amro bank, they will have to choose the profile "Amro"
15:21:50 <cstim> "filter"? maybe
15:22:18 <cstim> for sure better than "profile"
15:23:08 <cstim> For importing CSV data, the "profile" would be the place that specifies the mapping of CSV columns to aqbanking/gnucash data fields. That's more than a filter.
15:23:38 <andi5> rule set?
15:24:28 <andi5> hm... well, i do not know
15:24:49 <cstim> format
15:25:31 <cstim> User can import CSV with the "default format", or some "T-Online format", or MT940 with "Amro format".
15:25:44 <cstim> andi5: does that sound understandable?
15:25:49 <andi5> cstim: i have another question... what do you think about adding parameters to inst.sh? i would like at least ... --disable-aqbanking, --skip svnup, --disable-debug (strip), --disable-opt (-O0)
15:26:01 <andi5> sounds reasonable
15:26:35 <andi5> oh, if inst.sh succeeds, these parameters are written to some file, so that dist.sh can make use of them (not include aqbanking, e.g.)
15:26:57 <cstim> re install.sh: Since you have to modify custom.sh anyway, I would rather suggest you should have these as configuration variables in custom.sh
15:27:21 <cstim> I wouldn't like cmdline parameters to install.sh that much.
15:28:35 <andi5> hm, ok... i will implement them using custom.sh then
15:28:38 <cstim> what's the problem with aqbanking`
15:28:39 <cstim> ?
15:28:55 <andi5> there is no problem, it just takes plain long to compile .)
15:29:05 <andi5> i know what you are going to say ;-)
15:29:12 <cstim> shoot. Maia doesn't sleep but instead wants to scream.
15:29:18 <andi5> niiice
15:32:11 * cstim put the passifier back into Maia's bed
15:36:27 <cstim> andi5: however, guile, libgsf, goffice also takes very very long to compile. But once you're done, you won't have to compile it again.
15:36:45 <cstim> andi5: the same applies to gwenhywfar/aqbanking, which are both faster than, say, goffice.
15:37:03 <cstim> That's why I would prefer to have them enabled by default.
15:37:23 <andi5> well, gnucash will run without aqbanking, you know :) .... and i do not suggest to change the default
15:38:15 <andi5> cstim: hey, i cannot even estimate the work-load you have done to get aqbanking to work, so please do not take that personally :-)
15:39:08 <andi5> i have thought several times about patching goffice to compile less, but .... we patch enough
15:40:48 <andi5> cstim: oh, feel free to test gnucash on windows with all sorts of umlauts and spaces... you only need to take care of a glade/bonoboui bug that makes gnucash crash on glade files in directories with non-ascii names
15:41:52 <andi5> oh, and i always need to convert gnucash.bat to cp850 to make it work.... *grrrr*
15:44:29 <cstim> cp850?
15:44:46 <cstim> oh, you mean the encoding in case the path names are non-ascii
15:44:58 <andi5> yes
15:45:39 <andi5> do you think you can patch gnucash.iss.in to make that conversion ... somehow? :)
15:46:00 <andi5> (not necessarily to cp850, of course)
15:48:27 <cstim> no idea how encoding changes are available in gnucash.iss
15:48:30 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
15:50:18 <cstim> do you know which encoding gnucash.bat is written by the installer?
15:51:04 * andi5 runs dist.sh and installs
15:54:18 *** twunder has quit IRC
15:58:52 <warlord> Eh, people just shouldn't install into non-ascii paths. ;)
15:59:35 <andi5> warlord: why the heck do people need more than 127 characters at all....
15:59:43 <warlord> I dont know..
15:59:59 <warlord> Everyone should just learn English ;)
16:00:04 <cstim> and by the way, 640 KB are really enough.
16:00:31 <andi5> is that RAM?
16:00:48 <cstim> of course. Bill said so.
16:01:00 <andi5> who is bill? ;-)
16:01:33 * cstim is off to bed.
16:01:50 <andi5> bye cstim
16:02:10 <cstim> (Maia doesn't sleep well these days. /me need to plan ahead with sleeping.)
16:04:45 <prock> is gnucash doxygenized anywhere?
16:05:04 *** andi5 has quit IRC
16:05:33 <cstim> http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/
16:05:48 <warlord> se ya cstim
16:06:02 <prock> ntx
16:06:04 <prock> tnx
16:07:12 *** cstim has quit IRC
16:22:22 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
16:42:57 *** twunder has quit IRC
17:28:38 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
18:42:41 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
19:13:30 *** sjc has quit IRC
19:26:03 *** goflyapig has joined #gnucash
19:29:09 <goflyapig> Hiya. I'm new to gnucash (and accounting in general), and I'm not sure I'm understanding how the "Equity" account is supposed to work. I thought it was supposed to be a running tally of my assets less my liabilities, but apparently it's not, because the value is never updated. What's it for?
19:38:42 <warlord> It's used for startup and periodic resync. For running totals run a Balance Sheet.
19:43:06 <goflyapig> By startup you mean the opening balances? And what do you mean by "periodic resync"?
19:45:36 <warlord> Yes.
19:45:45 <warlord> "Book Closing"
20:03:39 *** ErKa has quit IRC
20:13:14 <jsled> goflyapig: There's the Equity account, different from the concept and current-running-value of "equity".
20:56:46 <warlord> hey, jsled . How's CA?
20:57:05 *** roman3x has quit IRC
20:57:13 <warlord> FYI, my next CA Trip is 2/24-3/4
20:57:30 <jsled> warlord: It's pretty good. Weather's nice. Good to see people.
20:57:36 <jsled> Too many meetings today, though.
20:57:55 <jsled> (and too many problems with the production website, but that's not because I'm out here, I don't think. :)
20:58:02 <warlord> Hehe!
21:07:56 <prock> is it necessary to keep the .log and .xac files around?
21:08:06 <warlord> no.
21:08:16 <warlord> gnucash should autodelete them for you.
21:08:41 <prock> I'm just checking in my files to a local SVN repo and need to know what should be versioned
21:10:46 <warlord> just your main file...
21:10:49 <warlord> And ~/.gnucash
21:11:18 <prock> should I worry about .gnucash getting broken but using trunk gnucash on occation?
21:11:26 <warlord> Maybe
21:11:32 <prock> so yes
21:12:42 <prock> is .gnucash compatible between OS's?
21:16:19 <warlord> it should be.
21:17:22 <prock> is my xml file only changed during a save? If I make a copy of the .xml while gnucash is open will the .xml be valid still?
21:17:33 <prock> (i.e. in a good state)?
21:17:46 <warlord> Your XML is only touched when you save.
21:22:50 <prock> that's interesting, the .gnucash is only updated when I quit... shouldn't it also be stored when I save?
21:28:02 <warlord> No.
21:41:40 <jsled> If you File > Save before you quit, sure.
21:41:44 <jsled> But not if you don't ask.
21:50:43 <prock> file > save of cash.xml did not update .gnucash/books/cash.xml
21:50:53 <prock> not a big deal just not what I expected.
21:51:35 <prock> btw I'm yet to say it but gnucash is great and I really appreciate all the hard work you guys do on it =)
21:53:17 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
21:55:09 *** goflyapig has quit IRC
22:32:40 *** twunder has quit IRC
23:06:40 *** BrianHV has joined #gnucash
23:07:25 <BrianHV> is there a means by which I may quickly change a large number of transactions to a different account?
23:08:12 <warlord> BrianHV: if you want all the transactions in one account to move into another account, you can reparent the to-be-deleted account under to to-be-moved-into account, and then delete the to-be-deleted-account..
23:08:24 <warlord> GnuCash will ask you if you want to move the transactions, and you should answer "yes"
23:09:19 <BrianHV> unfortunately, I don't want them all to be moved
23:10:25 <BrianHV> they all have the same description, so they're easy to search for, but they're a subset of this account
23:11:58 <warlord> There's no way to operate on multiple splits at once.
23:14:09 <BrianHV> oh well. creative copy/paste/down-arrow patterns made it reasonably quick.
23:14:16 <warlord> Okay.
23:20:04 <BrianHV> hm... another question I've been meaning to ask about is whether there's formal documentation of the file format
23:20:11 <warlord> Nope.
23:20:17 <BrianHV> it looks pretty easy to figure out, but I don't want to risk confusing gnucash if I can avoid it
23:20:44 <warlord> We don't support manualy manipulation of the data file.
23:20:52 <warlord> er, manual manipulation.
23:21:01 <BrianHV> k then. :)
23:21:16 * BrianHV wishes he knew lisp-like languages
23:21:54 *** fen has joined #gnucash
23:22:56 <fen> hi, can anyone here recommend an open source finance package that is web based?
23:23:18 <fen> or even a web based addon for gnucash
23:24:11 <BrianHV> heh. that's actually why I was just asking about the gnucash file format...
23:24:11 <fen> what roll your own?
23:24:11 <BrianHV> I was going to try, but warlord has discouraged me
23:24:25 <fen> that bad ey?
23:24:25 <warlord> fen: SQL-Ledger?
23:24:52 <fen> warlord would that be suitable for personal finance managment?
23:27:12 <jsled> BrianHV: the data file isn't XML; http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk/src/doc/xml/gnucash-v2.rnc is a non-normative, mostly complete schema, if it helps
23:27:25 <jsled> Er. s/isn't XML/isn't lisp/
23:27:43 <jsled> but you know that ...
23:28:04 <warlord> fen: no clue
23:28:22 <warlord> fen: probably not. but why would you want a web-based enterprise-level application for personal finance?
23:28:47 <BrianHV> jsled: right, but warlord said that manual manipulation isn't supported. I figured that I would therefore have to manipulate it through the gnucash api, if at all
23:28:58 <jsled> ah. Write C, then. :)
23:29:18 <BrianHV> is the file manipulation in C?
23:29:32 <jsled> As a simple way to get started, just hack out the "gui init" part at the bottom of gnucash-bin.c, and add in your stuff. It's non-trivial, but...
23:30:22 <jsled> Most of the app is in C, including the data-file loading, yes.
23:30:22 <BrianHV> hm. might be interesting to try
23:30:23 <warlord> BrianHV: there's a C API and a Scheme API.
23:30:41 <warlord> jsled: Although I dont think there's a LOAD API that doesn't involve gtk.
23:31:11 <jsled> that's probably true. I wonder if any of the tests exercise file loading.
23:31:17 <jsled> I think they ... might, actually.
23:32:40 <jsled> Yeah. src/backend/file/test/test-load-xml2.c:test_load_file
23:33:07 <warlord> Does it exercise the full QOF session load?
23:33:35 <jsled> It even then calls primitive engine api to make sure the account groups' book is the book it just loaded
23:33:37 <warlord> and is the API it uses exported to scheme?
23:33:41 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/backend/file/test/test-load-xml2.c
23:35:08 <jsled> warlord: It looks like it does some of the qof magic; I don't think it's exported to scheme.
23:35:54 <warlord> *nods* IIRC the only scheme-exported load-file API requires the GTK File Chooser dialog.
23:36:10 <fen> oo i think i may have found something that fits.
23:36:17 <fen> http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpfin/
23:38:04 <jsled> Hmmm. Web based app with a website (<http://www.phpfin.com/>) that doesn't work. :)
23:38:21 <warlord> Hehe.
23:39:47 <fen> jsled, yeah thats the reason i looked its activity in sourceforge project stats, its had activity in 2007, so im sure the website will be fixed sooner or later.
23:40:07 <fen> last release was november
23:42:39 <fen> having said that it appears there are issues with php5, so thats out
23:42:52 <warlord> Heh.
23:43:09 <warlord> I dont understand why you want all the issues of setting up (and securing!) a WebApp for a PERSONAL finance system.
23:43:38 <jsled> cause it's easy to run a personal webserver.
23:44:17 <jsled> I run squirrelmail, a wiki and a php mpd client behind the firewall; I can vpn/ssh-tunnel in as need be.
23:44:32 <fen> web based apps enable access from any web enabled location, and i'm more likely to record my daily transactions if i can do it soon after i make them.
23:44:46 <fen> it has its advantages
23:45:02 <fen> especially for budgeting
23:45:23 <warlord> I just run gnucash on my laptop; since I carry my laptop with me it's always there. no web access necessary, and I can even work on my finances at 35,000 feet!
23:46:21 <fen> my 'laptop' has a total battery life of 45 seconds, so thats not exactly an option for me.
23:47:01 <fen> and i currently can't afford to replace it.. hence the need to budget..
23:47:11 <warlord> Heh
23:50:35 <elb> I had gnucash on my laptop, but I moved it to my desktop, so I could use it when I didn't have my laptop with me
23:51:14 <elb> I also wasn't real keen on carrying my finances around with me where they could escape into the wild ;-)
23:51:28 <elb> though I put that stuff on an encrypted loopback disk, so I wasn't *too* worried
23:54:02 <fen> are there any efforts happening to port gnucash to win32?
23:54:10 <warlord> elb: that's why encfs is for. ;)
23:54:19 <warlord> fen: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows
23:54:52 <elb> I didn't use encfs, I used encrypted loopback
23:55:44 <warlord> elb: my problem with ELB (hmm, interesting acronym) is that you have to allocate the full size ahead of time. EncFS will grow or shrink as you add/remove files.
23:56:04 <elb> yeah ... but I just made a 256MB disk
23:56:18 <elb> all it has on it is financial data
23:56:31 <elb> if I have 256MB of financial data, I'll use my finances to buy a bigger disk
23:56:32 <elb> ;-)
23:56:33 <warlord> I think 256M is enough.
23:56:37 <jsled> heh
23:57:24 <warlord> (famous last words)
23:58:14 <jsled> Huh. I'd not seen encfs before
23:58:15 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
23:58:16 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
23:59:27 * jsled updates the FAQ
23:59:37 <fen> the company i work for employing 60 people has a 225mb myob data file, but being myob its almost certainly bloated.