2007-01-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:34:04 <dgtlmoon> greets
01:34:14 <dgtlmoon> how the hell do i change the font size/type in the pdf when i print an invoice?
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07:16:26 <tri> hi
07:17:34 <tri> i can't compile g-wrap. make error:untime.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/core-runtime.o
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c: In function 'gw_wrapset_add_function':
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: 'ffi_arg' undeclared (first use in this function)
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: for each function it appears in.)
07:17:35 <tri> make[3]: *** [core-runtime.lo] Error 1
07:19:03 <tri> anyone knows how to solve this ?
07:22:42 <tri> i get this error with the g-wrap version 1.9.7 and the latest cvs version. ./configure run without errors.
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08:19:56 <warlord> tri: unfortunately g-wrap really sucks.. It's why we've stopped using it in our mainline (trunk) system
08:24:20 <tri> i just was reading this in the commit messages at trac.
08:24:22 <warlord> What OS/Distro are you using?
08:24:32 <warlord> And what version of gcc?
08:24:44 <tri> so if i use the latest trunk version i maybe have more luck
08:25:08 <tri> i use crux linux . gcc version 4.0.3
08:26:04 <tri> what is g-wrap for - i didn't get it ?
08:28:41 <warlord> g-wrap is a tool to wrap C in guile. In trunk we use 'swig' instead.
08:30:37 <warlord> I have no idea what crux linux is..
08:30:43 <warlord> (never heard of it).
08:31:05 <warlord> But I've certainly heard problems about 1.9.7 -- can you try g-wrap 1.9.6?
08:31:31 <warlord> (I wouldn't recommend gnucash svn trunk because it's unstable, untested, and could potentially destroy your data)
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10:24:54 <warlord> hiya andi5
10:51:54 <andi5> warlord: hi
10:52:33 <andi5> warlord: gnucash (script) misses DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH, right? .. i will try to make a patch and let mr reiser test that one
10:54:07 <andi5> or maybe LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH, will see
10:54:20 <warlord> i dont know which.
10:54:35 <warlord> i can try either/both at some point.
10:54:49 <andi5> oh, perfect :)
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11:19:49 <andi5> warlord: can you test whether gnucash starts up for you with recent trunk on macos? if not, does DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="${EXTRA_LIBS}:${DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH}" ; export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH ... work? ... if not, s,DYLD,LTDL, should, right?
11:20:41 <andi5> the lines belong to the gnucash startup script, of course :)
11:20:42 <warlord> Let me try..
11:20:46 <andi5> thanks
11:21:04 <warlord> let me pull down current trunk
11:21:09 <andi5> the problem is that i do not really know how ltdl works on macos
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11:22:56 <warlord> 'k
11:23:03 <warlord> I'm building.. It's gonna be a while.
11:25:49 <warlord> I'm heading out. I'll be back in about 45 minutes. Hopefully the build will have finshed by then and I can go test for you.
11:26:16 <andi5> cool... depending on the results i will probably have more to test for you, but no rebuild will be necessary then :)
11:26:33 <warlord> ok
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12:43:44 <warlord> andi5: DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH lets it run
12:44:43 <andi5> oook.... and what if you replace $EXTRA_LIBS by $libdir?
12:45:45 <warlord> just for dyld_.. or for ld
12:45:49 <warlord> as well.?
12:45:52 <andi5> just for dyld
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12:46:09 <warlord> hold on.
12:46:14 <andi5> (i know that changing ld_lib_path will crash fatally ;-))
12:47:53 <andi5> i expect some error, maybe while loading a module which misses a library it was linked against
12:47:56 <warlord> setting DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/gnucash-trunk/lib:${DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH}" and gnucash still runs
12:48:06 <andi5> huh...
12:48:28 <andi5> i expect your DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH is vanilla ;-)
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12:49:00 <warlord> vanilla??
12:49:21 <andi5> well, it should not contain paths to ... say a 2.0.4 build, right?
12:49:22 <jos> Hi all.
12:49:43 <jos> I have a basic question about the usage of gnucash, that I could not find via google.
12:49:45 <warlord> true... and it doesn't.
12:49:54 <warlord> jos: have you read the gnucash docs?
12:50:02 <jos> And , of course the docs :-)
12:50:03 <jos> yes
12:50:09 <jos> Let me explain.
12:50:29 <jos> If I go to a store, let's call it GB (I'm Belgian, it's a Belgian one).
12:50:43 <jos> Then part of my expenses can be food, others can be maintenance products etc.
12:50:47 <jos> That's the category.
12:50:49 <jos> Works fine.
12:51:09 <jos> Next to that , I would like to track also the 'beneficiary' of my expenses (GB) in this case.
12:51:18 <jos> But I could not find a way to do so.
12:51:33 <jos> (I used ms money in the past, and that was a possibility)
12:51:49 <jos> Is it somehow possible, or is there a workaround to do it the one or the other way ?
12:51:59 <jsled> it's not readily possible in gnucash.
12:52:08 <jos> Not readily, that gives hope :-)
12:52:18 <jos> I do not mind fiddling a bit around if needed :-)
12:52:28 <jsled> Well, the workarounds aren't very attractive. :)
12:52:36 <jos> Oops :-)
12:52:56 <jos> What would be the way of doing it ?
12:53:22 <jsled> It's basically not possible, though you could create duplicate expense account hierarchies for each ... company ("beneficiary").
12:53:23 <jos> Accounts payable stuff ?
12:53:31 <jsled> But then reporting becomes quite painful.
12:53:44 <warlord> jos: use the description, or action, or Split Memo for that.
12:53:58 <jos> Well, currently that's what I do.
12:54:07 <jos> In the description I always write the store name.
12:54:12 <jos> And in the split the detail.
12:54:19 <jos> Even if there is no spit in fact.
12:54:29 <jos> But then I'm not able yet to 'report' on it ?
12:55:52 <jsled> That's right.
12:56:16 <jsled> Not to be dismissive, but why do you care to track that?
12:56:41 <warlord> Actually, you can report on it.... but it depends what you're trying to report.
12:56:57 <warlord> It's not an "account" per se, but you can certain find all your transactions to that store..
12:57:07 <jos> Quite simple type of report : how much money am I carrying to which store ?
12:58:52 <jos> jsled : the reason would be that especially my wife is more sensitive to 'saving' on expenses in a particular store than saving to a particular category ...
12:58:56 <warlord> Run a transaction report and then sort by Description?
12:59:11 <jos> Aha ! That sounds good indeed !
12:59:35 <jos> Probably that would do it. I'll try immediately if it makes sense ...
13:01:13 <jos> That's a custom report I have to assemble, isn't it ?
13:03:19 <jsled> jos: Edit > Find...; in the "search results" register: Reports > Account Report or > Account Transaction Report
13:04:13 <jos> I'm trying. Have a dutch version, but I'm finding my way ...
13:05:22 <andi5> warlord: http://pastebin.ca/raw/316494 does a bit more than just DYLD... it also remove GNC_MODULE_DIR and GNC_LIBDIR... just see the diff, from my point of view, they are clearly superfluous (i replaced them by libdir, resp. pkglibdir)
13:06:59 <warlord> jsled: no, that's not what I meant.. I meant
13:07:05 <warlord> [menu] -> Reports -> Transaction Report
13:07:10 <warlord> Then [Options]
13:07:18 <warlord> Then select the search/sort criteria
13:07:21 <jos> It gives me transactions sorted per descriptins.
13:07:33 <jos> warlord : that's indeed what I did, be it in dutch :-)
13:07:42 <jos> And search/sort criteria.
13:08:10 <warlord> 'k
13:08:11 <jos> I see each split along with the transaction, and no summed amounts.
13:08:41 <warlord> It may not let you summerize..
13:08:44 <jos> So it's not exactly what I expected.
13:08:49 <jos> Indeed.
13:09:03 <warlord> andi5: gnucash-config can probably just go away..
13:09:18 <jos> Probably it's not readily possible indeed.
13:09:38 <jos> It's not a major issue for using it though. Like the program anyway.
13:10:04 <jos> Maybe I'll do some own scripting on the xml file if I absolutely want such a report.
13:10:20 <warlord> andi5: you dont need all of EXTRA_LIBS in DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH, but obviously it wouldn't hurt.
13:10:32 <jos> Thanks for trying to help me guys !
13:10:43 <jsled> jos: did you try via Edit > Find...?
13:10:56 <jos> Edit -> find ?
13:11:04 <jos> No, i made the report as warlord suggested.
13:11:10 <jos> Shall I try the other way also ?
13:11:16 <jos> One moment.
13:12:48 <warlord> jsled: Edit -> Find and then run a Register Report?
13:13:16 <jsled> yeah. It's totally broken.
13:14:30 <jsled> At least, seems to be.
13:15:07 <jos> Well, I can search for transactions containing the name of the store (and as I did this rigourously it works reasonabl well) but still there's no summation , and I would need to run it for all possible stores to achieve what I want.
13:15:26 <jos> But the summation would be already a big thing, then I could run it manually over the big five or big ten.
13:15:36 <warlord> jos: lokos like you'll have to write some code.
13:15:45 <jos> Yes, indeed ...
13:15:47 <warlord> I'd start with the transaction report.
13:15:53 <warlord> ... And just add Sums.
13:16:33 <jos> I'll give it a try, after I read the chapters on doing so.
13:16:50 <jos> It's just within the application , isn't it ? No guile involved yet ?
13:18:51 <andi5> warlord: should gnucash-config be replaced by gnucash.pc?
13:19:09 <warlord> no, the reports are ALL guile
13:19:25 <warlord> andi5: Nah, I'd just as soon ignore all that.
13:20:45 <jos> Ok warlord. Give it a try nevertheless. I used guile many years ago on Cadence asic layout tools, it was not the most wonderful experience but it worked :-)
13:20:56 <andi5> what would be necessary to create 3rd-party plugins for gnucash? is it possible, does anyone do that?
13:21:05 <jos> Thanks for your help !
13:21:43 <jos> BTW , you're one of the developpers ?
13:22:03 <andi5> warlord: or do you mean i just should not care?
13:22:12 <andi5> (like i do with backend/postgres ;-))
13:22:13 <warlord> andi5: I dont think anyone does it.. and i think it would be rather challenging.. So I'd rather not encourage it now. If someone complains and asks about it we can think about re-adding it. But our APIs, ABIs, and libraries aren't designed for third-party development.
13:22:28 <warlord> No, I think we should just remove gnucash-config from the tree.
13:22:35 <andi5> so what about gnucash.m4?
13:24:00 * warlord shrugs
13:24:07 <warlord> jos: yes
13:25:02 <jos> great work, really.
13:25:48 <jos> once more thx and bye !
13:26:11 <warlord> see ya
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13:32:04 <andi5> well, if you do not mind, i would remove gnucash.m4 too... to name one reason: it depends on gnucash-config to detect its own installation :)
13:34:21 <warlord> Heh. Probably fair. And worst case we can pull it back in.
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14:06:12 <andi5> hm... what is that -> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/configure.in#L2252 ?
14:06:57 <jsled> That's a comma, andi5. :)
14:07:04 <andi5> ahhhhh ;-)
14:07:47 <andi5> and what is it... good for?
14:07:59 <jsled> argument separation, mostly.
14:08:06 <hampton> hey jsled, you've been busy. :-)
14:08:27 <andi5> hmpf... yes, it separates above from the commands.... thanks jsled :)
14:08:29 <jsled> hampton: yeah ... SO's out of town, and I really want to get this stuff done so I can focus on reports.
14:09:23 <jsled> Or qif import. Or, really, anything else. :)
14:09:29 * hampton understands
14:09:43 <hampton> Now that I've moved, I'm hoping to find more time to spend on gnucash.
14:10:14 <hampton> when I'm not furniture shopping.... :-)
14:10:18 <jsled> heh.
14:13:16 <jsled> God, the gnome file dialog is so broken.
14:13:28 <jsled> Isn't this like the 3rd overhaul of it?
14:13:53 <hampton> ot: Comet McNaught is now visible in broad daylight. http://www.spaceweather.com/
14:14:00 <warlord> or something.
14:14:26 <warlord> Maybe we just need an "open file", or "open URI" and two different operations?
14:16:01 <andi5> why not pack the gtkfilechooserwidget and some database connection entry thingie into two separate tabs of a notebook? .... just an idea :)
14:16:13 <jsled> There should probably be one "open" menu item and dialog, though the dialog would need to accomodate both, of course. I wonder if gnome-vfs can help us, even if we don't use it for actually doing the access.
14:16:47 <jsled> (though we might want to consider using it for the data access, as well, but ...)
14:16:54 <warlord> Hmm...
14:17:02 <warlord> Do we already have gnome-vfs as a dep?
14:17:13 <andi5> via libgnomeui, i think yes
14:17:23 <jsled> if not there, via goffice.
14:17:38 <warlord> So we do indirectly already require it. okay.
14:18:44 <andi5> how does a filechooser-like database connectivity kit look alike? *having a bad imagination*
14:19:22 <warlord> andi5: it lets you type a URI, for example.
14:20:12 <andi5> for reference, what barks if you enter an arbitrary uri?
14:20:47 <jsled> Gnome Menu > Places > Connect to server... > Service type = Custom Location.
14:20:53 <jsled> It looks like that. ;)
14:21:24 <andi5> jsled: is not that basically what i suggested? :)
14:21:26 <jsled> Though for the DB specifically, gda "should" have an even better one.
14:21:43 <jsled> andi5: yup ... it's a good suggestion. :)
14:23:00 <andi5> jsled: you might want to create a mockup of what you want :)
14:23:12 <andi5> (i.e. create a mockup of what a mockup...)
14:26:26 <jsled> [ot] http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4443574851519655250 (very slightly dirty)
14:29:37 <warlord> that's just silly!
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14:33:50 <warlord> I'll be back
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14:34:10 <andi5> T 1100?
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14:41:32 <hampton2> gncbot: op
14:41:33 *** gncbot sets mode: +o hampton2
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14:46:59 <hampton2> My video card seems to be dying and taking my computer with it. :-(
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14:56:47 <jsled> hampton2: what video card?
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15:09:40 <hampton2> ATI Radeon 9800
15:11:12 <hampton2> I started seeing noise on the screen about a week ago, then the system started hanging. If I started the computer without X it would run fine; with X it would hang.
15:11:36 <jsled> huh.
15:11:49 <hampton2> Its been running X ok here in the new place for two days, then suddenly the screen changed to a garbage pattern and the system hung.
15:12:49 <hampton2> I know the GPU fan is dying based on the noise it made when I first started the computer here.
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15:52:40 <jsled> Huh. I think if I just wrap the sx-list in a sort model, I should be able to fold sx-cleanup back into trunk
15:52:53 <jsled> (assuming I can build and run trunk, which I've not really tried in quite a while)
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19:26:06 <CSWookie> Is it possible to say batch move transactions from one account to another?
19:27:06 <CSWookie> Like, every transaction with a name like FOO that is between Credit Card and Expenses:disputed to be between credit card and Expenses:Disputed:FOO ?
19:28:24 <jsled> CSWookie: No. :( http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_there_a_way_to_merge_two_accounts_into_one.3F
19:30:31 <CSWookie> Ugh.
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20:49:25 <jsled> flyspell-mode rules.
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21:47:40 <hampton2> Did I just goof? Looks like my commit for the 2.0 branch went onto the 2.0.2 tag?
21:47:58 <jsled> looks like, yeah.
21:48:14 <warlord> Yes, you screwed up.
21:48:30 <hampton2> So how do I revert it? 'svn diff -r x:y | patch -R -p0' ?
21:48:40 <jsled> svn merge -r y:x
21:48:51 <warlord> svn ... what jsled did.
21:49:14 <warlord> svn merge -r 15385:15384 ..
21:49:20 <hampton2> there's no admin command to delete the last revision (he asks hopefully)?
21:49:57 <warlord> No.. We'd have to dump the repository, edit the dump, and then restore it.
21:50:07 <warlord> I dont think there's an 'svn admit undo'
21:50:25 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/ now has a link to the logs here.
21:50:41 <warlord> jsled: nice
21:52:46 <hampton2> This is one of the down sides to everything being a branch. :-(
21:53:25 <warlord> I was wondering if we should limit who can write to /gnucash/tags/ ?
21:53:46 <jsled> To Wilddev?
21:53:51 * jsled shrugs
21:54:04 <warlord> Yeah.
21:54:11 <jsled> Once the anti-merge is completed, the tag will represent the same state.
21:54:12 <warlord> (and anyone else who ends up as R-E)
21:54:17 <hampton2> is anyone creating tags other than release tags?
21:54:26 <warlord> hampton2: not that I know of..
21:57:51 <jsled> lol @ chris.
21:58:27 <warlord> "both of them"?
21:58:32 <jsled> yeah.,
21:59:52 <warlord> i dont get it
22:08:18 <jsled> Oh ... commentary on the small number of Alphas that would exist -- and be actively used -- in the world.
22:08:31 <warlord> Oh..
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23:31:08 <jrleek> hi, I'm having some newbie trouble with gnucash
23:31:53 <jrleek> I downloaded QIF files from my various bank accounts, and I thought I'd start simple by just matching up the transfers between then
23:33:21 <jrleek> So, I loaded up all the QIFs with new accounts for each one. During the wizard I just allowed every transfer to go to and from "unspecified"
23:33:47 <warlord> Well, that's your FIRST mistake!
23:33:56 <jrleek> Now I try to match up a transfer from checking to savings, and itj ust tells me it's unbalanced.
23:34:05 <jrleek> Hi, well, I assume I'm making a lot
23:34:30 <jrleek> I've never really used accounting software before. I'm trying to improve myself. :)
23:35:19 <jrleek> Should I load up all the QIFs and once and match them during the wizard?
23:35:19 <warlord> Don't match to unspecified. Match to a real Expense.
23:35:44 <warlord> It depends if they use the same QIF Account names internally.
23:36:13 <jrleek> Hmm, I guess that means I have to have all my expence and income accounts layed out before I start?
23:36:31 <jrleek> They don't. Different banks.
23:36:50 <warlord> No, you can create accounts from the importer.
23:37:05 <warlord> But IMHO it does work best to have your accounts laid out first.
23:38:31 <jrleek> ok, that shouldn't be all that tough. I have a pretty good idea what I need.
23:40:02 <jrleek> I guess there is one case where it could be a pain. I have one credit card I haven't downloaded the QIF info for yet.
23:40:53 <warlord> Well, you probably want to load each qif file separately...
23:41:17 <jrleek> So I won't be able to match it up to the payment from my checking. So, say I now assign the transfer to the "expense"->"credit card" account. Can I later match it up to the correct payment?
23:41:27 <jrleek> Oh really? I thought you were saying I should do them all at once.
23:42:15 <warlord> It's not an expense. A CC is a liability.
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23:42:35 <AlonzoTG> atg@leenooks ~ $ gnucash
23:42:36 <warlord> You should only do them at once if they come from the same source and have the same sets of QIF Account Names inside them.
23:42:36 <AlonzoTG> ERROR: In procedure primitive-load-path:
23:42:37 <jrleek> I guess that's true
23:42:38 <AlonzoTG> ERROR: Unable to find file "slib/guile.init" in load path
23:42:39 <AlonzoTG> atg@leenooks ~ $
23:42:53 <warlord> AlonzoTG: read the error message.
23:43:02 <AlonzoTG> I have no idea what to do.
23:43:08 <AlonzoTG> I have no idea where the load path is.
23:43:10 <jrleek> oh, ok. Shoots that I idea down.
23:43:15 <AlonzoTG> I have never heard of this "guile.init"
23:43:22 <AlonzoTG> There are a quarter million files on my fucking computer.
23:43:30 <warlord> AlonzoTG: slib is broken.
23:43:37 <warlord> what OS/Distro?
23:43:41 <AlonzoTG> gentoo.
23:43:49 <AlonzoTG> It broke this weekend after I ran the update script...
23:43:56 <warlord> "the update script"?
23:44:14 <AlonzoTG> I also trucked the machine up to masachusetts where a friend tried in vain to install Fedora Core. MWAHAHAHAH.
23:44:28 <AlonzoTG> emerge sync followed by emerge --update
23:44:53 <warlord> maybe jsled can answer you.. he's the resident gentoo guru..
23:45:25 <warlord> jrleek: sorry..
23:45:39 <jrleek> warlord: It's ok
23:46:40 <warlord> AlonzoTG: what version of guile, slib, g-wrap, and gnucash do you have installed now?
23:47:42 <jrleek> So, I guess what would be best is if you could just tell me in simple steps how I should bootstrap gnucash starting from nothing. Take your time though, I'm grateful.
23:48:23 <AlonzoTG> * dev-scheme/guile
23:48:24 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 1.6.8
23:48:26 <warlord> Well, I would just start with File -> New File and then ignore everything before Jan 1, 2007 -- file starting balances with a date of Dec 31, 2006
23:48:43 <AlonzoTG> * dev-scheme/slib
23:48:44 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 2.4.6
23:49:08 <AlonzoTG> * dev-libs/g-wrap
23:49:09 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 1.3.4-r1
23:49:36 <warlord> try re-emerging slib?
23:49:36 <jrleek> haha
23:51:48 <hampton2> good night all
23:51:51 <jrleek> ok, I suppose that would simplify the issue.
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23:52:07 <warlord> good night hampton|away
23:53:02 <jrleek> ok, My plan: 1. Clean up and start over. 2. Create full account hieracrcy. 3. Import QIFs starting from Jan 1, 2007. 4. Everything month, download updated QIFs from bank. 5. Now the account hierarchy is set up, so it's easy.
23:53:25 <jrleek> Does that sound right?
23:54:02 <warlord> well, don't forget your starting balances.
23:54:27 <warlord> and the first few times you download your QIFs you'll need to map everything to your account tree.
23:54:37 <warlord> Now, you COULD let the importer create the accounts for you.
23:56:25 <jrleek> right, starting balances. Otherwise, (I've noticed) my checking account thinks I'm > 4000 in the hole. ^_^;;
23:57:02 <jrleek> Does it do a good job guess at accounts? I would guess not, but it wouldn't be the first I'm I was wrong.
23:57:31 <warlord> It does a decent job.
23:59:05 <jrleek> Hmm, ok. I guess I can check what it picks before I commit to it.
23:59:59 <warlord> Yep
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01:34:04 <dgtlmoon> greets
01:34:14 <dgtlmoon> how the hell do i change the font size/type in the pdf when i print an invoice?
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07:16:26 <tri> hi
07:17:34 <tri> i can't compile g-wrap. make error:untime.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/core-runtime.o
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c: In function 'gw_wrapset_add_function':
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: 'ffi_arg' undeclared (first use in this function)
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
07:17:34 <tri> core-runtime.c:328: error: for each function it appears in.)
07:17:35 <tri> make[3]: *** [core-runtime.lo] Error 1
07:19:03 <tri> anyone knows how to solve this ?
07:22:42 <tri> i get this error with the g-wrap version 1.9.7 and the latest cvs version. ./configure run without errors.
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08:19:56 <warlord> tri: unfortunately g-wrap really sucks.. It's why we've stopped using it in our mainline (trunk) system
08:24:20 <tri> i just was reading this in the commit messages at trac.
08:24:22 <warlord> What OS/Distro are you using?
08:24:32 <warlord> And what version of gcc?
08:24:44 <tri> so if i use the latest trunk version i maybe have more luck
08:25:08 <tri> i use crux linux . gcc version 4.0.3
08:26:04 <tri> what is g-wrap for - i didn't get it ?
08:28:41 <warlord> g-wrap is a tool to wrap C in guile. In trunk we use 'swig' instead.
08:30:37 <warlord> I have no idea what crux linux is..
08:30:43 <warlord> (never heard of it).
08:31:05 <warlord> But I've certainly heard problems about 1.9.7 -- can you try g-wrap 1.9.6?
08:31:31 <warlord> (I wouldn't recommend gnucash svn trunk because it's unstable, untested, and could potentially destroy your data)
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10:24:54 <warlord> hiya andi5
10:51:54 <andi5> warlord: hi
10:52:33 <andi5> warlord: gnucash (script) misses DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH, right? .. i will try to make a patch and let mr reiser test that one
10:54:07 <andi5> or maybe LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH, will see
10:54:20 <warlord> i dont know which.
10:54:35 <warlord> i can try either/both at some point.
10:54:49 <andi5> oh, perfect :)
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11:19:49 <andi5> warlord: can you test whether gnucash starts up for you with recent trunk on macos? if not, does DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="${EXTRA_LIBS}:${DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH}" ; export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH ... work? ... if not, s,DYLD,LTDL, should, right?
11:20:41 <andi5> the lines belong to the gnucash startup script, of course :)
11:20:42 <warlord> Let me try..
11:20:46 <andi5> thanks
11:21:04 <warlord> let me pull down current trunk
11:21:09 <andi5> the problem is that i do not really know how ltdl works on macos
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11:22:56 <warlord> 'k
11:23:03 <warlord> I'm building.. It's gonna be a while.
11:25:49 <warlord> I'm heading out. I'll be back in about 45 minutes. Hopefully the build will have finshed by then and I can go test for you.
11:26:16 <andi5> cool... depending on the results i will probably have more to test for you, but no rebuild will be necessary then :)
11:26:33 <warlord> ok
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12:43:44 <warlord> andi5: DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH lets it run
12:44:43 <andi5> oook.... and what if you replace $EXTRA_LIBS by $libdir?
12:45:45 <warlord> just for dyld_.. or for ld
12:45:49 <warlord> as well.?
12:45:52 <andi5> just for dyld
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12:46:09 <warlord> hold on.
12:46:14 <andi5> (i know that changing ld_lib_path will crash fatally ;-))
12:47:53 <andi5> i expect some error, maybe while loading a module which misses a library it was linked against
12:47:56 <warlord> setting DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/gnucash-trunk/lib:${DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH}" and gnucash still runs
12:48:06 <andi5> huh...
12:48:28 <andi5> i expect your DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH is vanilla ;-)
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12:49:00 <warlord> vanilla??
12:49:21 <andi5> well, it should not contain paths to ... say a 2.0.4 build, right?
12:49:22 <jos> Hi all.
12:49:43 <jos> I have a basic question about the usage of gnucash, that I could not find via google.
12:49:45 <warlord> true... and it doesn't.
12:49:54 <warlord> jos: have you read the gnucash docs?
12:50:02 <jos> And , of course the docs :-)
12:50:03 <jos> yes
12:50:09 <jos> Let me explain.
12:50:29 <jos> If I go to a store, let's call it GB (I'm Belgian, it's a Belgian one).
12:50:43 <jos> Then part of my expenses can be food, others can be maintenance products etc.
12:50:47 <jos> That's the category.
12:50:49 <jos> Works fine.
12:51:09 <jos> Next to that , I would like to track also the 'beneficiary' of my expenses (GB) in this case.
12:51:18 <jos> But I could not find a way to do so.
12:51:33 <jos> (I used ms money in the past, and that was a possibility)
12:51:49 <jos> Is it somehow possible, or is there a workaround to do it the one or the other way ?
12:51:59 <jsled> it's not readily possible in gnucash.
12:52:08 <jos> Not readily, that gives hope :-)
12:52:18 <jos> I do not mind fiddling a bit around if needed :-)
12:52:28 <jsled> Well, the workarounds aren't very attractive. :)
12:52:36 <jos> Oops :-)
12:52:56 <jos> What would be the way of doing it ?
12:53:22 <jsled> It's basically not possible, though you could create duplicate expense account hierarchies for each ... company ("beneficiary").
12:53:23 <jos> Accounts payable stuff ?
12:53:31 <jsled> But then reporting becomes quite painful.
12:53:44 <warlord> jos: use the description, or action, or Split Memo for that.
12:53:58 <jos> Well, currently that's what I do.
12:54:07 <jos> In the description I always write the store name.
12:54:12 <jos> And in the split the detail.
12:54:19 <jos> Even if there is no spit in fact.
12:54:29 <jos> But then I'm not able yet to 'report' on it ?
12:55:52 <jsled> That's right.
12:56:16 <jsled> Not to be dismissive, but why do you care to track that?
12:56:41 <warlord> Actually, you can report on it.... but it depends what you're trying to report.
12:56:57 <warlord> It's not an "account" per se, but you can certain find all your transactions to that store..
12:57:07 <jos> Quite simple type of report : how much money am I carrying to which store ?
12:58:52 <jos> jsled : the reason would be that especially my wife is more sensitive to 'saving' on expenses in a particular store than saving to a particular category ...
12:58:56 <warlord> Run a transaction report and then sort by Description?
12:59:11 <jos> Aha ! That sounds good indeed !
12:59:35 <jos> Probably that would do it. I'll try immediately if it makes sense ...
13:01:13 <jos> That's a custom report I have to assemble, isn't it ?
13:03:19 <jsled> jos: Edit > Find...; in the "search results" register: Reports > Account Report or > Account Transaction Report
13:04:13 <jos> I'm trying. Have a dutch version, but I'm finding my way ...
13:05:22 <andi5> warlord: http://pastebin.ca/raw/316494 does a bit more than just DYLD... it also remove GNC_MODULE_DIR and GNC_LIBDIR... just see the diff, from my point of view, they are clearly superfluous (i replaced them by libdir, resp. pkglibdir)
13:06:59 <warlord> jsled: no, that's not what I meant.. I meant
13:07:05 <warlord> [menu] -> Reports -> Transaction Report
13:07:10 <warlord> Then [Options]
13:07:18 <warlord> Then select the search/sort criteria
13:07:21 <jos> It gives me transactions sorted per descriptins.
13:07:33 <jos> warlord : that's indeed what I did, be it in dutch :-)
13:07:42 <jos> And search/sort criteria.
13:08:10 <warlord> 'k
13:08:11 <jos> I see each split along with the transaction, and no summed amounts.
13:08:41 <warlord> It may not let you summerize..
13:08:44 <jos> So it's not exactly what I expected.
13:08:49 <jos> Indeed.
13:09:03 <warlord> andi5: gnucash-config can probably just go away..
13:09:18 <jos> Probably it's not readily possible indeed.
13:09:38 <jos> It's not a major issue for using it though. Like the program anyway.
13:10:04 <jos> Maybe I'll do some own scripting on the xml file if I absolutely want such a report.
13:10:20 <warlord> andi5: you dont need all of EXTRA_LIBS in DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH, but obviously it wouldn't hurt.
13:10:32 <jos> Thanks for trying to help me guys !
13:10:43 <jsled> jos: did you try via Edit > Find...?
13:10:56 <jos> Edit -> find ?
13:11:04 <jos> No, i made the report as warlord suggested.
13:11:10 <jos> Shall I try the other way also ?
13:11:16 <jos> One moment.
13:12:48 <warlord> jsled: Edit -> Find and then run a Register Report?
13:13:16 <jsled> yeah. It's totally broken.
13:14:30 <jsled> At least, seems to be.
13:15:07 <jos> Well, I can search for transactions containing the name of the store (and as I did this rigourously it works reasonabl well) but still there's no summation , and I would need to run it for all possible stores to achieve what I want.
13:15:26 <jos> But the summation would be already a big thing, then I could run it manually over the big five or big ten.
13:15:36 <warlord> jos: lokos like you'll have to write some code.
13:15:45 <jos> Yes, indeed ...
13:15:47 <warlord> I'd start with the transaction report.
13:15:53 <warlord> ... And just add Sums.
13:16:33 <jos> I'll give it a try, after I read the chapters on doing so.
13:16:50 <jos> It's just within the application , isn't it ? No guile involved yet ?
13:18:51 <andi5> warlord: should gnucash-config be replaced by gnucash.pc?
13:19:09 <warlord> no, the reports are ALL guile
13:19:25 <warlord> andi5: Nah, I'd just as soon ignore all that.
13:20:45 <jos> Ok warlord. Give it a try nevertheless. I used guile many years ago on Cadence asic layout tools, it was not the most wonderful experience but it worked :-)
13:20:56 <andi5> what would be necessary to create 3rd-party plugins for gnucash? is it possible, does anyone do that?
13:21:05 <jos> Thanks for your help !
13:21:43 <jos> BTW , you're one of the developpers ?
13:22:03 <andi5> warlord: or do you mean i just should not care?
13:22:12 <andi5> (like i do with backend/postgres ;-))
13:22:13 <warlord> andi5: I dont think anyone does it.. and i think it would be rather challenging.. So I'd rather not encourage it now. If someone complains and asks about it we can think about re-adding it. But our APIs, ABIs, and libraries aren't designed for third-party development.
13:22:28 <warlord> No, I think we should just remove gnucash-config from the tree.
13:22:35 <andi5> so what about gnucash.m4?
13:24:00 * warlord shrugs
13:24:07 <warlord> jos: yes
13:25:02 <jos> great work, really.
13:25:48 <jos> once more thx and bye !
13:26:11 <warlord> see ya
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13:32:04 <andi5> well, if you do not mind, i would remove gnucash.m4 too... to name one reason: it depends on gnucash-config to detect its own installation :)
13:34:21 <warlord> Heh. Probably fair. And worst case we can pull it back in.
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14:06:12 <andi5> hm... what is that -> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/configure.in#L2252 ?
14:06:57 <jsled> That's a comma, andi5. :)
14:07:04 <andi5> ahhhhh ;-)
14:07:47 <andi5> and what is it... good for?
14:07:59 <jsled> argument separation, mostly.
14:08:06 <hampton> hey jsled, you've been busy. :-)
14:08:27 <andi5> hmpf... yes, it separates above from the commands.... thanks jsled :)
14:08:29 <jsled> hampton: yeah ... SO's out of town, and I really want to get this stuff done so I can focus on reports.
14:09:23 <jsled> Or qif import. Or, really, anything else. :)
14:09:29 * hampton understands
14:09:43 <hampton> Now that I've moved, I'm hoping to find more time to spend on gnucash.
14:10:14 <hampton> when I'm not furniture shopping.... :-)
14:10:18 <jsled> heh.
14:13:16 <jsled> God, the gnome file dialog is so broken.
14:13:28 <jsled> Isn't this like the 3rd overhaul of it?
14:13:53 <hampton> ot: Comet McNaught is now visible in broad daylight. http://www.spaceweather.com/
14:14:00 <warlord> or something.
14:14:26 <warlord> Maybe we just need an "open file", or "open URI" and two different operations?
14:16:01 <andi5> why not pack the gtkfilechooserwidget and some database connection entry thingie into two separate tabs of a notebook? .... just an idea :)
14:16:13 <jsled> There should probably be one "open" menu item and dialog, though the dialog would need to accomodate both, of course. I wonder if gnome-vfs can help us, even if we don't use it for actually doing the access.
14:16:47 <jsled> (though we might want to consider using it for the data access, as well, but ...)
14:16:54 <warlord> Hmm...
14:17:02 <warlord> Do we already have gnome-vfs as a dep?
14:17:13 <andi5> via libgnomeui, i think yes
14:17:23 <jsled> if not there, via goffice.
14:17:38 <warlord> So we do indirectly already require it. okay.
14:18:44 <andi5> how does a filechooser-like database connectivity kit look alike? *having a bad imagination*
14:19:22 <warlord> andi5: it lets you type a URI, for example.
14:20:12 <andi5> for reference, what barks if you enter an arbitrary uri?
14:20:47 <jsled> Gnome Menu > Places > Connect to server... > Service type = Custom Location.
14:20:53 <jsled> It looks like that. ;)
14:21:24 <andi5> jsled: is not that basically what i suggested? :)
14:21:26 <jsled> Though for the DB specifically, gda "should" have an even better one.
14:21:43 <jsled> andi5: yup ... it's a good suggestion. :)
14:23:00 <andi5> jsled: you might want to create a mockup of what you want :)
14:23:12 <andi5> (i.e. create a mockup of what a mockup...)
14:26:26 <jsled> [ot] http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4443574851519655250 (very slightly dirty)
14:29:37 <warlord> that's just silly!
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14:33:50 <warlord> I'll be back
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14:34:10 <andi5> T 1100?
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14:41:32 <hampton2> gncbot: op
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14:46:59 <hampton2> My video card seems to be dying and taking my computer with it. :-(
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14:56:47 <jsled> hampton2: what video card?
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15:09:40 <hampton2> ATI Radeon 9800
15:11:12 <hampton2> I started seeing noise on the screen about a week ago, then the system started hanging. If I started the computer without X it would run fine; with X it would hang.
15:11:36 <jsled> huh.
15:11:49 <hampton2> Its been running X ok here in the new place for two days, then suddenly the screen changed to a garbage pattern and the system hung.
15:12:49 <hampton2> I know the GPU fan is dying based on the noise it made when I first started the computer here.
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15:52:40 <jsled> Huh. I think if I just wrap the sx-list in a sort model, I should be able to fold sx-cleanup back into trunk
15:52:53 <jsled> (assuming I can build and run trunk, which I've not really tried in quite a while)
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19:26:06 <CSWookie> Is it possible to say batch move transactions from one account to another?
19:27:06 <CSWookie> Like, every transaction with a name like FOO that is between Credit Card and Expenses:disputed to be between credit card and Expenses:Disputed:FOO ?
19:28:24 <jsled> CSWookie: No. :( http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_there_a_way_to_merge_two_accounts_into_one.3F
19:30:31 <CSWookie> Ugh.
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20:49:25 <jsled> flyspell-mode rules.
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21:47:40 <hampton2> Did I just goof? Looks like my commit for the 2.0 branch went onto the 2.0.2 tag?
21:47:58 <jsled> looks like, yeah.
21:48:14 <warlord> Yes, you screwed up.
21:48:30 <hampton2> So how do I revert it? 'svn diff -r x:y | patch -R -p0' ?
21:48:40 <jsled> svn merge -r y:x
21:48:51 <warlord> svn ... what jsled did.
21:49:14 <warlord> svn merge -r 15385:15384 ..
21:49:20 <hampton2> there's no admin command to delete the last revision (he asks hopefully)?
21:49:57 <warlord> No.. We'd have to dump the repository, edit the dump, and then restore it.
21:50:07 <warlord> I dont think there's an 'svn admit undo'
21:50:25 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/ now has a link to the logs here.
21:50:41 <warlord> jsled: nice
21:52:46 <hampton2> This is one of the down sides to everything being a branch. :-(
21:53:25 <warlord> I was wondering if we should limit who can write to /gnucash/tags/ ?
21:53:46 <jsled> To Wilddev?
21:53:51 * jsled shrugs
21:54:04 <warlord> Yeah.
21:54:11 <jsled> Once the anti-merge is completed, the tag will represent the same state.
21:54:12 <warlord> (and anyone else who ends up as R-E)
21:54:17 <hampton2> is anyone creating tags other than release tags?
21:54:26 <warlord> hampton2: not that I know of..
21:57:51 <jsled> lol @ chris.
21:58:27 <warlord> "both of them"?
21:58:32 <jsled> yeah.,
21:59:52 <warlord> i dont get it
22:08:18 <jsled> Oh ... commentary on the small number of Alphas that would exist -- and be actively used -- in the world.
22:08:31 <warlord> Oh..
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23:31:08 <jrleek> hi, I'm having some newbie trouble with gnucash
23:31:53 <jrleek> I downloaded QIF files from my various bank accounts, and I thought I'd start simple by just matching up the transfers between then
23:33:21 <jrleek> So, I loaded up all the QIFs with new accounts for each one. During the wizard I just allowed every transfer to go to and from "unspecified"
23:33:47 <warlord> Well, that's your FIRST mistake!
23:33:56 <jrleek> Now I try to match up a transfer from checking to savings, and itj ust tells me it's unbalanced.
23:34:05 <jrleek> Hi, well, I assume I'm making a lot
23:34:30 <jrleek> I've never really used accounting software before. I'm trying to improve myself. :)
23:35:19 <jrleek> Should I load up all the QIFs and once and match them during the wizard?
23:35:19 <warlord> Don't match to unspecified. Match to a real Expense.
23:35:44 <warlord> It depends if they use the same QIF Account names internally.
23:36:13 <jrleek> Hmm, I guess that means I have to have all my expence and income accounts layed out before I start?
23:36:31 <jrleek> They don't. Different banks.
23:36:50 <warlord> No, you can create accounts from the importer.
23:37:05 <warlord> But IMHO it does work best to have your accounts laid out first.
23:38:31 <jrleek> ok, that shouldn't be all that tough. I have a pretty good idea what I need.
23:40:02 <jrleek> I guess there is one case where it could be a pain. I have one credit card I haven't downloaded the QIF info for yet.
23:40:53 <warlord> Well, you probably want to load each qif file separately...
23:41:17 <jrleek> So I won't be able to match it up to the payment from my checking. So, say I now assign the transfer to the "expense"->"credit card" account. Can I later match it up to the correct payment?
23:41:27 <jrleek> Oh really? I thought you were saying I should do them all at once.
23:42:15 <warlord> It's not an expense. A CC is a liability.
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23:42:35 <AlonzoTG> atg@leenooks ~ $ gnucash
23:42:36 <warlord> You should only do them at once if they come from the same source and have the same sets of QIF Account Names inside them.
23:42:36 <AlonzoTG> ERROR: In procedure primitive-load-path:
23:42:37 <jrleek> I guess that's true
23:42:38 <AlonzoTG> ERROR: Unable to find file "slib/guile.init" in load path
23:42:39 <AlonzoTG> atg@leenooks ~ $
23:42:53 <warlord> AlonzoTG: read the error message.
23:43:02 <AlonzoTG> I have no idea what to do.
23:43:08 <AlonzoTG> I have no idea where the load path is.
23:43:10 <jrleek> oh, ok. Shoots that I idea down.
23:43:15 <AlonzoTG> I have never heard of this "guile.init"
23:43:22 <AlonzoTG> There are a quarter million files on my fucking computer.
23:43:30 <warlord> AlonzoTG: slib is broken.
23:43:37 <warlord> what OS/Distro?
23:43:41 <AlonzoTG> gentoo.
23:43:49 <AlonzoTG> It broke this weekend after I ran the update script...
23:43:56 <warlord> "the update script"?
23:44:14 <AlonzoTG> I also trucked the machine up to masachusetts where a friend tried in vain to install Fedora Core. MWAHAHAHAH.
23:44:28 <AlonzoTG> emerge sync followed by emerge --update
23:44:53 <warlord> maybe jsled can answer you.. he's the resident gentoo guru..
23:45:25 <warlord> jrleek: sorry..
23:45:39 <jrleek> warlord: It's ok
23:46:40 <warlord> AlonzoTG: what version of guile, slib, g-wrap, and gnucash do you have installed now?
23:47:42 <jrleek> So, I guess what would be best is if you could just tell me in simple steps how I should bootstrap gnucash starting from nothing. Take your time though, I'm grateful.
23:48:23 <AlonzoTG> * dev-scheme/guile
23:48:24 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 1.6.8
23:48:26 <warlord> Well, I would just start with File -> New File and then ignore everything before Jan 1, 2007 -- file starting balances with a date of Dec 31, 2006
23:48:43 <AlonzoTG> * dev-scheme/slib
23:48:44 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 2.4.6
23:49:08 <AlonzoTG> * dev-libs/g-wrap
23:49:09 <AlonzoTG> Latest version available: 1.3.4-r1
23:49:36 <warlord> try re-emerging slib?
23:49:36 <jrleek> haha
23:51:48 <hampton2> good night all
23:51:51 <jrleek> ok, I suppose that would simplify the issue.
23:51:52 *** hampton2 is now known as hampton|away
23:52:07 <warlord> good night hampton|away
23:53:02 <jrleek> ok, My plan: 1. Clean up and start over. 2. Create full account hieracrcy. 3. Import QIFs starting from Jan 1, 2007. 4. Everything month, download updated QIFs from bank. 5. Now the account hierarchy is set up, so it's easy.
23:53:25 <jrleek> Does that sound right?
23:54:02 <warlord> well, don't forget your starting balances.
23:54:27 <warlord> and the first few times you download your QIFs you'll need to map everything to your account tree.
23:54:37 <warlord> Now, you COULD let the importer create the accounts for you.
23:56:25 <jrleek> right, starting balances. Otherwise, (I've noticed) my checking account thinks I'm > 4000 in the hole. ^_^;;
23:57:02 <jrleek> Does it do a good job guess at accounts? I would guess not, but it wouldn't be the first I'm I was wrong.
23:57:31 <warlord> It does a decent job.
23:59:05 <jrleek> Hmm, ok. I guess I can check what it picks before I commit to it.
23:59:59 <warlord> Yep